When you all read Boag’s apology, did it seem to everyone else she was apologising for a war crime and not a normal dirty politics trick?
It was like she was throwing herself on our mercy for things we didn’t know had happened yet
What have they been doing?
We will know when the inquiry comes out.
With Judith now the leader of National, the 2020 election honestly is between Malice and Kindness.
Who wins will reflect the true nature of us as a people.
That’s why this election matters.
If the Left wanted a better reason to work together, Judith Collins as PM is it.
Her definition of our civil liberties and our definition of our civil liberties will be light years apart.
Collins is a ruthless Politician with a track record of dirty politics scandals.
The irony here is that Muller was picked on and tripped up by that bloody MAGA hat when in reality, Judith Collins style of revenge fantasy mindset is far closer to Trump than Todd Muller ever was.
Judith Collins once said, “If you can’t be loved, then best to be feared.”
New Zealand has to appreciate what a true statement that would become if Judith Collins became the Prime Minister of New Zealand.
Did we really survive a pandemic to be punished by Crusher Collins?
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” Judith Collins once said, “If you can’t be loved, then best to be feared”
Yeah we have had this type of leadership before and the country suffered for it.
With the epidemic of suicides and our own vicious bullying culture is this the kind of PM we need in 2020 and beyond ?
That the National party and its caucus think that a Collins Brownlee combination is the only alternative to save their seats and party vote and are prepared to inflict that on the rest of us shows how out of touch they really are.
I recall that type of leadership was under Helen Clark. Everyone feared her…an H2.
Mosa: “Judith Collins once said, “If you can’t be loved, then best to be feared””
I’ve commented elsewhere here that this is a version of what Machiavelli said in “The Prince”.
It looks to me as if she meant it in the Machiavellian sense: as in “God-fearing” or “monarch-fearing”, that is, awe and respect, unwillingness to incur the wrath of the entity being feared. Not the more common meaning.
I studied Machiavelli: nowadays, he’s often misunderstood. He was talking about political strategy in that book. He was a diplomat and philosopher, giving advice to Lorenzo de’ Medici. They were different times: no rule of law as we understand it now. Rulers wielded absolute authority, or they didn’t survive challenges by other strong men.
I just gotta love an outlaw, even ones bent on revenge…
The Bucket Scene – Billy’s Laugh
https://youtu.be/yMKi-opusR4?t=2
It just tells us to sharpen up the act… and that aint bad.
See, I view it as more a battle between competence and incompetence.
Looking forward to seeing Ardern defend her Government’s record of delivery……Kiwibuild, 1 Billion Trees, Elimination of Child Poverty/Homelessness etc.
If the debate is based on execution rather than slogans, I’d be very happy.
Yep, 9 years of Nationals incompetence V Labours 3. Yep National wins ever time.
Good one bert
plc: “Looking forward to seeing Ardern defend her Government’s record of delivery……Kiwibuild, 1 Billion Trees, Elimination of Child Poverty/Homelessness etc.”
As am I. This government has been a massive disappointment.
Try some facts….unless they get in the way of your Jacindafear.
Oh No Can’t let facts ruin a good belief system.
D’Esterre are you referring to Labours aspirations of coalition aspirations.
John W: “….are you referring to Labours aspirations of coalition aspirations.”
Both. Labour ought not to have over-promised and under-delivered in the way that it has. And I expected of its leadership better political skills, so as to be able to persuade a coalition partner to sign up to what it had promised.
And there’s this:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/122149832/government-sells-30m-worth-of-state-houses-after-labour-promised-to-stop-sales
Labour voters like to cane the Natz for the sell-off of state houses – dunnit meself – but actually, Labour is no better.
In light of the evidence, I understand the backing away from the CGT, but Labour ought to have done its research before it blew that particular trumpet. That would have prevented a lot of egg on political faces.
I have no argument about what you are putting forward except the point that Labour is accused of making “promises” they haven’t kept.
“In the lead up to the 2017 election Labour said if elected it would immediately end the sale of state houses.”
Labour was not elected govt but became a part of a negotiated coalition. Full stop.
So I suggest that “promises” as such are nonsense.
John W: “Labour was not elected govt but became a part of a negotiated coalition. Full stop.
So I suggest that “promises” as such are nonsense.”
This is an MMP environment: there was no chance that Labour would be able to govern alone. It was always going to be in coalition with another party. It seems to me that you’re attempting to defend the indefensible. I’ve done that myself, back in the day.
No more. I’m too old to be obliged to wait around until this lot get off their arses and actually do the politics required to get coalition partners on side. I want to see something of moment happen before I die!
Saccharine pronouncements about kindness don’t constitute clever political strategy. Smart political process and tough negotiation, does.
I’m of the generation which had neoliberalism enforced upon it, with huge negative consequences for so many people. Including us, of course.
I’ve spent the intervening years voting in favour of MMP, so as to restrict the power of the Executive. And attempting to get a party elected which will at least take steps to reverse the worst effects of neoliberalism. The damage to our own lives and job prospects can’t be undone, but at least a government could do something pointful about state housing and substantial increases to benefit levels for the very poorest.
This lot could have done that. They have not.
I concur with your sentiments.
MMP was not a choice i would have made as there were better options on the table before National preferred engineered FPP or MMP as the only options.
That is all we were presented with.
Whether there was a chance of Labour getting a majority or not really doesn’t enter into my observation that Labour made no promises whether as a intended majority party of as a coalition party.
There were policy statements but “Promises” are a different matter.
“Promises ” have been fabricated in retrospect and as such used to load arguments with emotional content.
“you didn’t keep your promise” stuff has to have grounds or the words are those of fools.
Great headline stuff for click bait though.
“This lot could have done that. They have not.”
Fair enough to assume they could have without knowing what coalition discussions took place.
The other restricting factor is NZ Initiative with its off shore arm having unimaginable clout when aroused.
You may have wondered why the NZ state have not re instituted a Govt owned loan agency and govt owned insurance agency. We had both once but now any govt that tries to implement such will have much more than dirty politics heaped upon them.
Ok on the history and if you go far enough back you may remember some of the political crap we were fed during the war.
What competence from National are you referring to?
The Christchurch rebuild? Pretty draconian laws enacted, overseen by one of Nationals most senior monkeys, (current deputy Nat leader) and they failed to deliver. Still a half-arse rebuild.
2018 (March) Census. Pretty damned important this was done right but ended a non-surprising farce. It became to be about as reliable and useful like a $2 shop Rolex owing to cost-cutting. This was well and truly set up by National and it blindsided the incoming government thanks to Nationals never-ending quest for savings that actually always cost more in the end.
Roads of National Significance. Still waiting on most of those to even make it off the drawing board.
And on that subject one of the very few that did- Transmission Gully. Epic failure on behalf of National and it will cost the people of this country dearly for a very long time.
State house sell-off. Not too sure what the go was there but I am pretty sure the objective was not mass homelessness, as callous as National are. But they achieved it not surprisingly. But it put money on the surplus in doing so. Yesss!
NZ as a Tax haven. That was the objective. But even then with all the dark sneaky backroom shit going on and the tacit support of many a millionaire/billionaire and probably the odd illicit cartel, it only took one real journalist to end John’s dream.
And on the minor waste of money escapade award – $26,000,000 dollars and counting for a teatowel masquerading as our National flag. WTF?
That is just for starters!
Compentent. Not really are they?
Better record than that of delivering a housing crisis, widening rich poor divide, intrusive powers of State surveillance, lack of action on climate crisis, elevation of politico/economic cronyism etc
Bring it on.
Hey, your description is my view of the shortcomings of the National Party in a nutshell. Exactly what the last Nat. Govt. achieved. Projection is all over these comments. Try meditation to improve your perception.
I’ve seen some horrendous policies from National, but this is what their last government was all about, even if hidden under the ACT banner.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122142786/sentence-goes-against-mans-human-rights-but-cannot-be-overturned-says-court-of-appeal
Yes, SOB, and more of that cruelty ahead if the shapeshifting medusa were to regain power.
Strangely enough, I’m kind of glad Collins made it to leadership, even despite her disgusting involvement in Dirty Politics. It is a form of necessary ‘epiphany’ that needs to finally be released on the New Zealand public.
Is this what you really want?… or do you want something better for your children and children’s children?
Do you want corruption and financial enslavement or do you want freedom and a release from tyranny in the form of the demise of neo liberal financial enslavement and foreign dictates,… or do you want an indigenous and homegrown ideological and economic foundation that favours the many , not the few….
If so,- this is the PERFECT OPPORTUNITY,… we can use Judy Collins as the perfect antithesis to what we really want and Aderns govt post September as the exceptionally perfect meatsack / punching bag to test their commitment in renouncing their neo liberal standpoint.
Its a win / win for all New Zealanders except the politicians.
Its a win for democracy, – not just the passing of ideological batons between the two major party’s ,- accept Judith Collins as the harbinger of the new era of boiling things down to its most basic of elements,…the REAL test of where Adern and her govt REALLY are at regards neo liberalism.
I cannot have dreampt of a better result than today’s news for democracy.
Looking at the nats new (old) leaders…im reminded of the term “glitter on a turd”…although the glitters been locked away for years…made out of inferior materials…..and actually ends up looking like turd on turd!!!
Judith and Gerry are indeed competent in the art of dirty politics, smear campaigns, nepotism and lies.
I’d be happy with the focus on ‘climate change’ as labour has a clear policy but ‘National have no climate change policy’ other than ‘building more roads for trucks’ and that willl pollute our planet in more ways than considered by many.
National fail at saving our climate change abysmally.
EVIDENCE HERE;
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2007/S00086/government-fresh-water-plan-must-include-damage-from-road-runoff-pollution-from-freight-trucks.htm
Accepting the extraordinarily remote possibility that half of the voting population goes completely mad between now and September and allows egregiously self-serving liars to misgovern the country, as they did before, we should not worry too much because everything National stands for will either be be demolished, or exposed as fraud, by the accelerating global economic-financial-social meltdown.
As if we needed any more evidence of the toxicity of present [petroleum based] arrangements, the latest research indicates we have toxic matter in our bloodstreams and brains whilst we poison the natural world.
‘Microplastic pollution has polluted the entire planet, from Arctic snow and Alpine soils to the deepest oceans. The particles can harbour toxic chemicals and harmful microbes and are known to harm some marine creatures. People are also known to consume them via food and water, and to breathe them, But the impact on human health is not yet known.’
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/14/car-tyres-are-major-source-of-ocean-microplastics-study
I’m hoping, after three years of post natzo internettery and debate. Of seeing what a difference a, shall I say, warmer, governance can produce in the face of a viral outbreak and the undeniably successful management of that, a financial cluster fuck looming like big jizz brownlee’s arse cheeks and the slow yet deadly and irreversible spectre of global heating can give those of you who still believe in the financial ‘growth’ lunacy that seems to grip the Right like a vice, that, we shall see a new day, a new dawn and the big bad blond boomer will be laughed out of parliament as she should be, power eyebrows and all.
Since she’s so incredibly unlovable then lets just hate her guts. It’s what she would want.
“Who wins will reflect the true nature of us as a people.” I was waiting for a blog to make this exact comment on. But you beat me to it Martyn. Cinderella and her wicked stepmother comes to mind . Or Lucy and the White Queen.
It will be an interesting and revealing election.
D J S
And you think the Nats have a defendable record on housing, the environment, poverty and homelessness? Good luck with that.
RosieLee: “…you think the Nats have a defendable record on housing, the environment, poverty and homelessness?”
You aren’t suggesting that the current government does (have a defendable record), are you?
D’Esterre I agree Labour should not have promised to deliver a cleanup of the fucked up mess National left behind, 3 years was never going to fix that pile.
Bert: “….a cleanup of the fucked up mess National left behind…”
Indeed. Unless Labour had had a workable plan to fix the housing issue – and manifestly it did not, could not, even – its campaign promises ought to have been considerably more nuanced.
There’s no doubt that the Natz’s large-scale sell-off of state housing has made a bad situation much worse.
However. In fairness all round, there’s been a housing shortage in NZ since before I was born. And I’m a boomer. That’s why the first Labour government embarked on its state house-building project in the 1930s.
The reasons for that shortage lie in part in what NZ was like before the first settlers arrived. There was of course no housing when they came here (my late grandmother recalled living in a tent after she married my grandfather here in the very early years of the 20th century).
The population grew faster than the housing available: we’ve played catch-up ever since.
The working class (being low-income) has traditionally found it difficult to afford private-sector housing. And there was never enough state housing, even in the 1960s-1980s. In those days, I worked in the health sector: I remember working with whole families crammed into 2-bedroom flats or town houses, while they waited for a state house.
There’s no excuse for Labour not knowing this history: no excuse for it making promises that it must have known that logistically couldn’t be kept. This country doesn’t have the resources for the sort of house-building programme that Labour was promising: its advisors and MPs ought to have known that.
Bert I cannot find these elusive “promises” that keep cropping up.
There were aims parties put out before the last election but promises were never put on behalf of the coalition because there was not coalition.
So persons quoting promises just check if there was a coalition before the election day.
I don’t think there was and if I am right then no Govt promises existed.
Best stick to facts.
Far better than the current coalition, yes.
“2019 – The Year of Delivery”
2019 delivery wage increases to teachers, nurses, other health workers and all New Zealanders enjoyed an increase to the minimum wage.
So thank you for pointing out that 2019 was indeed the year of delivery. Now, remind me what National achieved in the previous 9 years?
The problem was that labour campaigned on those very things therefore will have to answer on why these have gone backwards over the past 3 years. This is Jacinda’s kryptonite and if in the debates she waffles relative to Collins then this will look bad. Collins will come prepared to question time and the debates and there will be no punches pulled.
And National campaigned on what again?
I think you’ll find for the first time for a long time there will be a proper campaign with fresh policies from either political party.
Enjoy the suspense
National are campaigning on roads they must be the roads we need for their ghost bridges.
Bert national are building roads to go with their ghost bridges this is not be confused with simon bridges but ghost bridges could be his cuzzy bro
plc yes we had nine years of incompetence under national. And given how well we have done with the Covid particularly when we compare ourselves to the UK, USA and Australia. Many of our allies did not go hard early instead they chose to keep businesses open and now they are paying for it. Why are so many people coming home and why are so many non-NZers trying to get into our country. Based on the latter the current government is not incompetent. And can you tell me a country that has a plan to get out of this mess apart from to let thousand die so some sort of a herd immunity can be established. And how long will that take and who will it effect the most in our country if we go for a herd immunity approach.
plc yes we had nine years of incompetence under national. And given how well we have done with the Covid particularly when we compare ourselves to the UK, USA and Australia. Many of our allies did not go hard early instead they chose to keep businesses open and now they are paying for it. Why are so many people coming home and why are so many non-NZers trying to get into our country. Based on the latter the current government is not incompetent. And can you tell me a country that has a plan to get out of this mess apart from to let thousand die so some sort of a herd immunity can be established. And how long will that take and who will it effect the most in our country if we go for a herd immunity approach.
Herd immunity is the neo-cons’ answer. Most every country in the world wants Jacinda as their PM. Only very very stupid people would exchange her for a tawdry blonde on wobbly stillettoes.
I shall sit back and enjoy.
““If you can’t be loved, then best to be feared.””
This is a version of what Machiavelli said in his book “The Prince”: “It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both.”
I’m not a Nat voter. However, initially, I liked the look of Todd Muller. He’s much more my style of pollie than his predecessor, who for my money sounded like a petulant teenager.
“The irony here is that Muller was picked on and tripped up by that bloody MAGA hat ….”
Indeed. The msm – liberal to the core, and in thrall to anti-Trump hysteria – went after him over the hat, just like the pack of rats they are. And – regrettably – Muller was too inexperienced politically to say to them what he should have said: “so bloody what?”
I was heartened to hear Collins’s interview on RNZ this morning, and her riposte to Dann: “Is there something wrong with being white?”. The issue of inequality and poverty in NZ is one of class, rather than ethnicity or skin colour per se. It’s reassuring to hear plain speech and forthrightness from a pollie, as opposed to the pussyfooting to which we’ve become accustomed.
The msm is largely to blame for the rise of Collins. Thanks for nothing, folks! Idiots….
So true.
I suspect that Muller did not understand what a devious unprincipled nest he was taking charge of. And finding he had to lie for and defend. i think his choice was between the NP leadership his soul .
D J S
David Stone: “I suspect that Muller did not understand what a devious unprincipled nest he was taking charge of.”
My impression of him is that he’s a man of principle, but also inexperienced. So he struggled with the compromises required of a leader, and how to square those compromises with his own instincts. The dead rat problem, sort of.
There was nothing defensible in the leak of health info. That was an out-and-out breach of the Privacy Act.
He needed to act swiftly on that issue, which seems to be where he’s had problems. From what I’ve seen, he perhaps didn’t move fast enough on Woodhouse.
It was brave of him to recognise that he doesn’t at present have what it takes to be a leader, and to resign.
Nats = unprecedented homelessness, more Maori children in OT, huge inequalities, more immigration for cheap labour and open our borders= herd immunity
Nats = unprecedented homelessness, more Maori children in OT, huge inequalities, more immigration for cheap labour and open our borders= herd immunity
Nats = unprecedented homelessness, more Maori children in OT, huge inequalities, more immigration for cheap labour and open our borders= herd immunity
plc yes we had nine years of incompetence under national. And given how well we have done with the Covid particularly when we compare ourselves to the UK, USA and Australia. Many of our allies did not go hard early instead they chose to keep businesses open and now they are paying for it. Why are so many people coming home and why are so many non-NZers trying to get into our country. Based on the latter the current government is not incompetent. And can you tell me a country that has a plan to get out of this mess apart from to let thousand die so some sort of a herd immunity can be established. And how long will that take and who will it effect the most in our country if we go for a herd immunity approach.
I note from Collins comments that at the forefront of her mind and the obvious number one policy/priority is to take power back. That’s all there is folks, take power back for the righteous and the just.
Then there is the message. Get all and sundry out (they’ve even dusted off Jenny Shipley) to say “we can win” and with the above policy and repetition of the “we can win” slogan, the righteous will be rewarded. Hallelujah.
That’s it. That is all they’ve come up with. NZ needs the National Party. We don’t know why or even need to know, it’s just we need them. Okay?
Jacinda’s ‘strength and saving grace is in ‘Climate Change’ Frank.
Which was the key statement she made at the Auckland Town Hall saying “climate Change is our generation’s nuclear moment.”
Compare that to “National’s missing climate change policy” – as they have none, to argue with, so National are also lacking in substance and policy making them weak and compromised with their roads roads roads policy..
Judith Collins also made remarks about “paying back double” in respect to those she felt had done her wrong.
Be good to see Labour/Green/NZ First voters pay her back with double National’s vote!
It would appear most of the non delivery from Labour/Greens has been the result of NZF being a constant hand brake on meaning full change .
Jacinda would probably love to throw Winston” under the bus” and put the blame on him but she must be very cautious .
1. She may need him to form a new government after the election to prevent a National /Act /NZF coalition .
2.She critically needs NZF to ratify the fiscal rescue packages between now and the election to keep jobs and give economic hope with the 20 b in reserve .If NZF withheld cooperation ,the economy dived and public confidence in Labour dropped it could well tip the election in Nationals favor .
Observation of policy over the last three years has shown a raft of reforms shelved , postponed , or watered down because of NZF, just ask James Shaw .But will Aunty Jacinada throw him to the wolves , I think not .
I have noticed that Chris Trotter has alluded to NZF hamstringing Labour from their reformative aspirations too. But I have missed the examples and instances of that having happened. It has seemed to me that since the last election the exact reverse has been the case. Please enlighten me with the examples I am missing.
D J S
Good comments from Cat MacLennan
Collins as National leader: Country needs constructive … – RNZwww.rnz.co.nz › news › on-the-inside › collins-as-natio…
Pompous Brownlee and wild eyed Judy…they both need a sit down and a cup of tea and someone to have a fireside chat with them…and a welcome to reality in the year 2020.
There is no comparison in intelligence, competence, ability, strength of character, ethics and respect from her team, between Jacinda and Judith.
Clare, You’ve said it better than anyone. And you haven’t even mentioned compassion.
Jacinda does not waffle Frank and how have we gone backward? I cant see anyone on the the streets. I can see lots of state houses being built in the Hutt Valley where I live.
Jacinda waffles like a womble on steroids and almost never answers a question straight. It’s full of Tony Blair jargon, buzzwords and ‘absolutely’ at least once every two minutes of speech.
But don’t believe me just watch the upcoming debates – i’m bringing the popcorn – it will be fun. Honest.
Collins will be easy meat, She will be to busy smiling at finally being leader and she can’t use National’s track record on success because there wasn’t any. Go on Frank prove me wrong.
I believe many on the left have truly good intentions, however they pave the road to hell.
My general observation about the left/right divide is that given a psychological profile test most on the left would fall into the ‘feeling’ category while most on the right are in the ‘thinking’ category.
Left thought processes seem to led by the heart but too often park the critical thinking aspect of their brains. On the right, many are focussed on the final objective but not so bothered about those who are hurt in the short term. Society needs elements of both for balanced decision making.
National’s nine years of hell saw Key operate a climate of ‘sell and greed’.
Then ir was his vanity was crippling NZ.
Remember the events around ‘John Keys flag costing us $30 million’???? it cost us to massage his vanity alone then he carried on selling sold everything he could.
Do we want more of that????
Not in your life or mine.
Feeling and empathy are higher levels of thought.
You mistake the rights’ single minded focus on making another buck at the expense of their fellow citizens as thinking, when it is nothing more than greed driven by incompetence that prevents them making an honest dollar.
Great psychology but simplistic. About year 5 primary school I’d guess.
I certainly cannot agree Andrew. Thinkers have been migrating to Labour since Jacinda has been leading.
Jonkey was the one who woed feelers with lies like national are the best managers.
Greed comes into play when you look at policy and who it will benefit.
FFS the issue that absolutely outweighs everything is Covid 19. Poor management of that would mean an overrun health system depriving people of cancer and elective surgery prompt treatment. It would endanger our precious health care staff. A poor covid response endangers our economy and those at the bottom of the heap suffer the most………….
This Govt has done and continues to do an outstanding job managing this once in a lifetime crisis. Yes Jacinda does it will kindness, but more importantly she does it will intelligence, skill and outstanding leadership. Collins should be absolutely castigated for saying she is not going to put up with Ardern’s “nonsense”…….This is absolutely disgusting
She, ‘is not going to put up with Jacinda nonsense’ is a disgusting thing to say but what do you expect from someone like judeath. Just this comment alone shows how unsuitable she is to me our PM. But the trouble is we have some very selfish people in our team of five million.
What bloody ‘kindness’? Denying those on TAS and SB a benefit increase is that ‘kind’?
She, ‘is not going to put up with Jacinda nonsense’ is a disgusting thing to say but what do you expect from someone like judeath. Just this comment alone shows how unsuitable she is to me our PM. But the trouble is we have some very selfish people in our team of five million.
FFS let’s have the balance to kindness and include practical help. I am sick of all these soppy types running around dripping their kind thoughts and considerations all over the place, but no action where the people suffering most would choose to apply it. Kindness is a trap when used without strengthening material; and after the first application it becomes more patronising as time goes on. It is essential! But there needs more in the mix, real determination to do something meaningful, and help people feel confident to advocate for themselves and assure the listeners that they can follow through with their practical ideas would be outstanding.
Encouraging small goals, and supporting as they are reached and reset when its people, and looking for practical targets like a piece of suitable land near transport, used as a training ground for interested unemployed doing an apprenticeship starting with the building of a tiny house village.
More malice vs hypocrisy and no transformational change.
Is she even a woman, or a wo(eful)man, that Crusher?
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