Extraordinary Lengths: Social Solidarity versus Death-Cult Capitalism


JACINDA ARDERN has clearly decided to do all she can to persuade New Zealanders to get vaccinated. Her Government is going to extraordinary lengths to reach out to the “vaccine hesitant”; to engage with them in positive conversations about the benefits of getting the jab.

Celebrities and sports heroes are being asked to provide “social proof” of the vaccine’s efficacy. Trusted figures like church pastors and community organisers are reassuring doubters that vaccination against Covid-19 will not only protect them, but also their friends and whanau. The Prime Minister, herself, is constantly reiterating the message that the fastest route to freedom is through New Zealanders’ upper arms.

No one can accuse the state of not walking its talk. Testers and vaccinators are going door-to-door in some suburbs. Special busses are cruising the streets. Taxi cabs are being paid by the tax-payer to take carless families to the vaccination centres. That the New Zealand state is pulling out all the stops in the persuasion department is incontrovertible.

For the overwhelming majority of Kiwis this massive effort simply isn’t necessary. Most of them trust their government to do everything within its power to keep them safe. That it may not do these things particularly well on occasion is irksome and frustrating, but it is not proof of official mendacity – let alone of a diabolical conspiracy. They are also pre-disposed to accept the advice of scientific experts, and reassured to learn that their political leaders are doing the same. They follow the rules of lockdown and are moved by the feelings of solidarity which their own – and their fellow citizens’ – compliance evokes.

These are the people who have lifted New Zealand’s vaccination rate effortlessly towards the 70 percent mark. Well-educated, well-housed, well-remunerated – they are not the problem. The “problem” – if that is the right word – lies with those who are poorly educated, poorly-housed, and/or just plain poor. The very people for whom all these over-and-above efforts are being made, and among whom they are proving to be highly successful.

Pasifika communities are leading the way in this respect. Vaccine hesitant, and plagued by all kinds of misinformation and conspiracy theories, these Covid-struck communities swiftly mobilised their considerable social and religious resources, driving up the vaccination rates of Pasifika people to the point where, in some parts of the country they are now well ahead of Māori and Pakeha alike.

The Pasifika example has no doubt reassured Jacinda and her government that they are on the right track. Clearly, they are doing all they can to replicate their success in Māori communities. There is no reason to suppose that the state’s outreach strategies here will not prove equally successful. When they are, the national vaccination rate will be nudging 85 percent.

Which leaves only the diehard anti-vaxxers, and those The Daily Blog Editor Martyn Bradbury colourfully calls “Death-Cult Capitalists”.

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

It is by no means certain that any kind of “outreach” will prove effective against those who, for whatever reason, have convinced themselves that the Covid-19 vaccines are part of a vast global conspiracy to enslave what remains of the world’s free-thinking and freedom-loving people. Against such individuals the techniques of persuasion have proved to be depressingly ineffective. The more sophisticated and evidence-based the arguments in favour of vaccination, the more the anti-vaxxers are convinced that they are dealing with forces of the most diabolical cunning. Attempts to use friends and family members to expose the delusional nature of their thinking have proved equally unsuccessful. Though deeply upset, they are not convinced. Discovering that their loved ones have succumbed to the mind-control of the global puppet-masters, only makes them more determined to hold out and fight on.

Against these folk the only reasonable means of defence is the Vaccination Passport. Denied access to all the usual locations of friendly and productive human interaction may not convince the anti-vaxxers that they are wrong about the vaccine, but, over time, it just might wear them down. There is very little in this world that is harder for human-beings to bear than being shunned by society and excluded from its benefits. What’s more, at no more than 5 percent of the population, their recalcitrance may very soon cease to be a problem. In saving themselves, the “pro-social” may end up saving the “anti-social” as well.

When it comes to the Death-Cult Capitalists, however, New Zealand faces a much more serious threat.

This vicious minority of the population isn’t against vaccination, it’s against the whole idea of society in general, and the state in particular, going to such lengths to protect the weak and the vulnerable. They regard the very idea of locking down a whole country, or even an entire city, as abhorrent.

Imposing costs upon businesses, and constraining free-market forces, is seen as far more damaging in the longer-term than losing a few hundred, or even a few thousand, of society’s weakest links. They chafe at the restrictions imposed upon them – especially those impeding their freedom of movement. That mere politicians are daring to tell them what they can do, and where they can go, is experienced by these people as the worst kind of tyranny – the “North Korean option”.

Rather than celebrate their government, and their fellow citizens, engaging in the practical application of social solidarity, kindness and love; they look at their country and see only a “smug hermit kingdom”.

Such people are a far cry from the hesitant, the misinformed, and the anti-vaxxers. The worst you can say of these folk is that they are either frightened, deluded or wrong – sometimes all three at once. But for those who see human society as a pitiless struggle to determine the survival of the fittest; for those who see human-beings as means to an end, never as ends in themselves; for those who would let thousands die rather than see the strong restrained in any way; for these people there is only one word: Evil.



  1. I wonder if 2 groups-vaxxed vs unvaxxed will become a division in society with angst on both sides towards the other. I think it is brewing now and will get worse when the covid passport denies the freedoms to the unvaxxed. It won’t go down well and will reinforce their belief in conspiracy. This split is in my family, now.
    I have tried to be the voice of reason pro vax, but to no avail and is best not to bring up the subject as argument quickly follows. An argument I can’t win against Facebook experts and conspiracy spreaders online.
    Oh well, it is what it is, and just hope it doesn’t get worse.

    • GreenBus
      Tricky! Yes I think you are right. And I think it will get worse as time goes on if two-vax numbers don’t improve – they seem to be the ‘key to freedom’ (as sold to us daily by JA). Never mind the science or the actual effectiveness, that’s another story we could debate for 1000 days. What’s happening here and now is quite simply “we are doing our bit for the cause and you are not”. The ‘no-vax’ will be in the minority and society will not rest until the ‘no-vax’ are ‘eliminated’, so to speak. THAT will become the new ‘elimination strategy’. No vax no job, no vax no takeaways, no vax no bus ride, no vax no Eden Park will become the norm. Right of Admission Reserved will have a whole new meaning! It sounds terribly mean, and probably is, but why should those who ‘have done their bit’ be hamstrung by those who have not? By comparison….if NZ was being invaded, all those taking up arms and defending will never look at objectors and pacifists in the the same way ever again: “We fought for your freedom so shut the fuck up” they will say. I think that’s where this whole thing is heading.

        • Kevin
          Oh…aaaah…I get it…yes…..Kraut is german so that makes that funny hahahaha very good Kevin (pommie?). Are you suggesting in endorse the 1932 methods? I sincerley hope not.

    • There will be division. Though that may only matter so long as the unvaccinated prevent the population reaching a threshold (eg 90%) that enables the lifting of restrictions. After that, it will become just another way we classify or judge one another.

    • Don’t worry Greenbus, when the great unvaccinated can’t get into gigs, can’t do their big OE. can’t go on holidays and have to stay in our comfy hermit kingdom for ever !! their scruples and fears will go out the window and after Christmas they will be pleading to be vaccinated. Personally I say lets leave them to their own devices because the more fuss we make they become all powerful just like little children. This will be at the behest of other countries not our own. So let’s all us sensible people enjoy the freedom we have and look forward to a long hot summer Covid free

    • Yes, you’re right GB, it will become divisive. It already is. But I think for the most part – families excepted – people will keep their vax status to themselves – unless of course it becomes tattooed somewhere conspicuous. Vax passports will come and inevitably they will deny freedoms to the unvaxxed. That may change the mind of a good many – but then, not having a passport may well become a badge of honour for some.

      What will happen is that once borders are relaxed the virus will begin to circulate. Some measure of border restrictions will still be in place – colour zones, vax status and the like – but the virus will get through. Even now– even with the borders pretty much closed – with its touch and go. I really can’t see NZ continuing with the elimination strategy for much longer. Certainly not lockdowns at Level 3 or 4 – in other words, the abandonment of elimination. Our elimination strategy would have served us well but NZ will become like the rest- same same but different. Some communities will be affected more than others I suspect. That’s the worry. Once everyone has been given the opportunity to receive the vaccine – and that day is coming – there will be immense pressure to reopen the hermit kingdom. Australia will be one step ahead. What that will look like, well, the experts say 80% is too low. It could all turn to custard, public-health wise. That’s the biggest worry in my mind. The public health system must be able to work, and that’s not only for Covid-19. The evidence from overseas – at least in the UK – is clear that in the Covid space the vaccinated will fare better. That’s particularly true of the 50+’s. More so with the elderly. Less severe symptoms, less hospitalisation, not as many deaths as the unvaccinated. It’s a personal choice. Maybe most of the anti-vaxxers are under 50 (not counting kids and those already with respiratory conditions) and think they are immune, not to the virus but to sickness and death. Just another flu. Well, the stats are on their side – but there are also plenty of outliers.

      The unvaxxed also become the weakest link – that is if the vaccine is effective at preventing spread of the virus. Its not clear however if the current vaccine will prevent transmission. Reduce perhaps? Someone will know the science. And what variant are we talking of? But in the minds of the greater vaccinated those who have refused the opportunity will be to blame.

  2. How is the vaccination rate of Wellington. Last i read it was abysmal, below any other places in NZ. Would that be the very well educated, highly paid pencilpushing persons? Are our cops being vaccinated yet? Or are they still not forced to be vaccinated?
    Who is actually not vaccinated? Can any of the very highly educated people point or print such a graphic that shows a break down by age, and ethnicity, vaxxed and unvaxxed.
    Btw, several of the Pacific islands have a vax rate of 90 odd percent, maybe its really just our government they don’t trust?

    • Sabine
      I think you have hit the nail. How can they trust govt when they manage this thing totally on the hoof without clear objectives? I quote Hooton: “Ardern’s new incoherence includes saying on some days that vaccination rates are considered in decisions about ongoing restrictions, and others days saying they aren’t. Some days she implies liberalisation requires vaccination of 90 per cent. Other days Beehive strategists deny any target and imply liberties could be restored below 90 per cent coverage. WTF?

    • Wellington has been badly managed, locally. Because the police weren’t given any priority, Unichem Pharmacies offered it to them. I gather that it was the police union, rather than the commissioner or minister, who’d been advocating for police – or frontline police- to be vaccinated.

    • I don’t see any mistrust of the government.

      The missed trust I see is between the people that won’t to overcome corona, and those that don’t. I see it my family and everywhere I go. I see it our schools that’s says nothing is unique. I see it in the police who want guns so we are to busy fighting each other than fight real injustice.

      I see it in our factories where bosses earn 10x more even though they are no different and have the same IQ.

      New Zealand’s problems isn’t homelessness or outraged middle class. New Zealand’s problem is the haves and have nots feeding off of death.

      But IV got a message for them, to the kiwis keeping New Zealand alive. The message is from the kiwis keeping New Zealand alive is to the kiwis that don’t – “You’re outnumbered.”

    • If Wellington is measured by the Capital & Coast and Hutt Valley DHB data on the MOH vaccine website, it is possibly the highest for first doses, or second to Auckland Metro at worst. For second doses it is a bit behind the national average.

    • The thrust of Mr ANZ’s comments were to open the borders and let his rich mates continue their plunder.
      Having been exposed as a liar by Pfizer his propaganda statement can be seen for what it was – a continuation of his record for lying – nothing more.

      • ” The thrust of Mr ANZ’s comments were to open the borders and let his rich mates continue their plunder ”

        Yes 100%

        • He was ‘woke’ baiting.

          Got the desired reaction of KDS then blended into the shadows secretly laughing at you all.

          Key 1; Team Left 0

            • LOL I wish I could get on the turps before midday……

              The fact that you are talking about this almost a week later yet he has sunk back below the surface like a nuclear hunter killer sub tells you all you need to know.

              His actions were deliberate and immaculately timed with reference to the sheeple (his target audience). Explaining is losing which is what team left has done ever since coupled with a slowly ever increasing outbreak.

              • LOL
                It was John at the top of this thread who mentioned the old sociopath. Most on the left are happy to consign him and his ilk to the scrapheap where they belong.
                Your continual touting of his discredited hermit kingdom brainfart as some sort of masterstroke simply reveals how desperate folk on the far right are to stay somehow relevant to the current situation.
                It’s truly laughable.

              • I think you underestimate the Natz Frank. Have a look at Chris’s column over on bowalley road to find the truth. Key is just a figurehead for Judith’s opposition faction of the Party….. locked in, locked up, locked out etc. Propaganda .

        • Yes Mosa, I think we can say that the majority agree with you and Jase. Not with John’s selective view of what Key said.

  3. The only good thing this government has achieved is Covid.

    Singapore 2236 cases. Also nobody knows the effects of long Covid yet.
    OZ has 1438 new infections.
    UK 33,314 new cases
    US 116,620 new cases
    India 23,529 new cases
    Sweden 827 new cases

    NZ still looking good at under 50 new cases per day.

    On a bad note, a lot of terrible policy coming through, the government can’t help themselves – absolute hypocrisy, on one hand 3 Waters to ‘protect’ the water (which NOBODY is buying) on the other hand, behind the scenes, tying to sneak through policy to destroy it.

    From Forest & Bird.

    Right now the Government is trying to sneak through a proposal to allow industries – including coal mining – to destroy the few remaining wetlands we have left.

    This is despite passing crucial laws protecting wetlands only a year ago, after many New Zealanders like you called for a clean-up of freshwater. The Government has gone back on its word. It has caved to the fossil fuel industry. It’s outrageous, and the Government is hoping you won’t hear about it.


    Also remember the promise of reducing immigration to 10,000 – 15,000 until the infrastructure, hospitals and housing are ready,….’ Hip hip hooray, to the warehouse, Briscos, liquor barons, developers, ‘carpenters’, chefs and supermarkets for their enormous profits on the back of temporary to permanent residency in NZ and lower and lower wages!

    • Singapore 2236 cases. Also nobody knows the effects of long Covid yet.
      OZ has 1438 new infections.
      UK 33,314 new cases
      US 116,620 new cases
      India 23,529 new cases
      Sweden 827 new cases
      Almost all fully vaxed

  4. We already have a lot of separatism in our country this vaccination issue will add yet another layer.

    • And that is how thee rich and powerful stay in power, the debt-slaves are always too busy fighting amongst themselves.
      Divide and conquer, works every time.

  5. Media channels are like blocked toilets at the moment with “Death Cultists” special pleading.

    Each evolving move in MIQ and COVID handling seems greeted with anguished howls of this or that industrialist, petit bourgeois, cafe or tourism operator, and aggrieved relative who did not get to see their gran expire. For goodness sake, unrestricted international travel is over for now, and possibly for good. Move continents and or to the other side of the world, and you should be prepared for farewells being final.

    Sir Ian Taylor is the latest whinger who has come up with a privatised travel model.

    These people, and Mr Key, do not pop up for something to do–they are part of the 1%ers campaign (and their toadying enabler group) to open up borders for free movement of capital and labour in so far as it is needed to keep their cashflow up. Sod ’em I say, Public Health first.

  6. I saw the ‘Death-Cult Capitalists’ and wondered about what and who they could be. Read the piece right through and recognised the run-of-the-mill Kiwiblog contributor.

  7. As usual Chris writes in a way that makes you read his posts in a bit more detail. they’re thought provoking and I enjoy reading his words even though I don’t always agree with what he says. This post seems to be more of a statement. and thats ok but the last few paragraphs describing the “death cult capitalists” concern me just a little. As Chris has pointed out the term “Death Cult Capitalism” is used freely on this forum and I have no problem using the term to describe those who care nothing of the society in which they live, money is their god and nothing should restrict what they wish to achieve. They have no empathy for their fellow humans and are almost as happy destroying themselves to achieve their ends as we see in climate change and covid debates. Chris states these people are truly evil, however its easy to use the term to describe those who don’t really fit those descriptions. It’s easy to lump a whole lot of people with different political ideas and opinions into this category just simply because we don’t like their opinions. Chris used the “smug hermit Kingdom” quote to help him describe these people. That immediately implicates John Key. So is John Key a Death Cult Capitalist” Plenty here would say he is, but is he really. John Key is a money man yes, he believes NZ can’t sustain the policies that up to now have kept NZ locked from the outside world, yes. Would he sacrifice our country just so we could, and he could, continue growing our economy and his wealth. Of course he wouldn’t, he’s not that stupid. He also wouldn’t have bothered to be our PM if that was the case. I believe there are people out there that fit the description of “Death Cult Capitalist” but we should use the term accurately and not just for our political adversaries and those we just don’t like.

    • I am very sparing in my use of the word “Evil”, New View, for precisely the reasons you outline.

      The reason I used it in this post is because there is underway a concerted push by the top echelons of business and their mouthpieces to “open the borders”. They know this will lead to a tremendous amount of suffering and many, many deaths, but they do not seem to care. They talk about the road toll and winter flu deaths as if these are simply the cost of doing business (which, when viewed from their amoral and instrumentalist perspective, they are) and thereby betray their willingness to turn Covid-19 into something similar.

      Does John Key regard human-beings as means to an end, rather than ends in themselves? I would like to think so, but his resort to “smug hermit kingdom” and “North Korean option” makes me wonder. It has been my experience that those who display scant concern for the truth are similarly indifferent about the sanctity or otherwise of human life.

      The proposition that: Where the Devil separates, God unites; might possibly serve as a useful rule of thumb in this looming moral crisis over vaccination.

      • Thanks for replying to my comment Chris. I take your points on board. I agree that the choice of words by John Key are not helpful along with him belittling the efforts of JA who is doing the best she can. There will be a line differentiating those who are “ death cult capitalists “ and those who sincerely believe we can be more open with minimal risk, but it’s a blurry line at best. I suspect most of the business white noise we are hearing is coming from the frustration of our slow vaccination rollout. The slow start has been found out because of delta, the result of which has delayed the commencement of normal business. The fact that the outside world including Australia is only just starting to open up has been lost on them and so politics is certainly playing it’s part.

        • We are moving from a science focused COVID response to a politically focused one, it is very, very likely that by the start of next year at the latest, we will be “learning to live with COVID in our communities”, so get vaccinated & encourage those you care about to do likewise. You have been warned. 2022 is going to be bumpy, buckle up.

          • Yes Richard and for the simple minded( of which there are a few here) living with covid whilst vaccinated is not abandoning the elimination strategy.

            • Lol Bert.
              Spinning like a top in camp Aotearoa at the moment eh.
              Up is down black is white and elimination is living with the virus!

              I’m just waiting for the vaccination rate spin- there are going to be all sorts of cooked statistics in the push to 90% -eligible vs ineligible, age classes, 1 vs 2 shots to make it look like we nearly got there and so Nash thinks he gets his crate of piss.

  8. I definitely will say for a large inflexible government department that is the MoH and a government that’s is not known for action, the bus and taxi initiatives are fantastic, as are the shopping vouchers.

    They are trying and because of that I support what we as a nation are doing even if it may fail to achieve all its goals.

    You can’t ask for anything other than their best efforts.

  9. So I’m proudly vax-hesitant, I’ll do a wait and see thanks and see how it goes. But before you heap abuse, vitriol and hate upon me (or worse still ‘Unfriend’ me) my hesitancy doesn’t make me an enemy of the state, or a tRump-loving, mark-of-the-beast redneck!
    Why would I run to the front of the queue like a sheep for an experimental drug to be pumped into my body, after only a few months of clinical testing, when the normal FDA testing/development regime takes 7-10 years? Do you trust big-pharma billionaires without question, and are we all supposed to just roll over and obey pontifications from the 1pm podium-of-truth?
    Yes, there is no big-Reset conspiracy here, I’ll get the vax, maybe next year sometime (then again maybe not) depends how the data pans out. I do want to travel overseas to see family so I guess I’ll have to get it then.
    Hears a link to the truth instead of spin…

    • Whatev Oldie, you do exactly as you please, but don’t come onto my property (I ask people these days if they are vaccinated), or into my local dairy without a mask on. The local Couriers are good with their distancing. Keep your distance in public too. Expect to be barred from various places, services and activities also until you put public health ahead of paranoid reckons.

      These vaccine types have been in development for a number of years now, particularly since SARS etc.–the health experts predicted the viruses would mutate, likely become global pandemics, and cross species.

      • Again all the ‘other side’ offer are invariably Ad Hominem attacks. Hardly helps in figuring out what is best.
        As the article says, did you read it?……. What has been delivered are drugs that are still in the middle of their testing, have been less effective than any vaccines we’ve seen in history, and pose exponentially more risks of adverse reactions than all previously approved vaccines combined.

        • This assessment is from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8223525/, an article addressing vaccine hesitancy in India (where you can imagine, given the population, this presents a severe problem!!).

          “An “average vaccine” requires a 10.7-year timeline beginning with the pre-clinical phase, whereas COVID-19 vaccine program completed clinical testing in less than a year. However, the research on COVID-19 vaccines did not first begin in 2020 but instead built on a decade of previous research on coronaviruses, leading to proof-of-concept for the spike protein as a lead vaccine target. In both the USA and internationally, phase 3 trials were well-powered studies of 30,000 to 60,000 human volunteers, equivalent to other large vaccine clinical trials required to license vaccines. So the vaccines available to us today are not half cooked products but just as well researched as any other vaccine.”

          I believe the latest evidence emerging is that booster shots may be required every 6 months or so as antibody titre drops after a while with the current vaccines. This explains why previously innoculated folk have ‘caught Covid’ months after being jabbed.

          So my take based on what I’ve currently read is:
          (1) the vaccines are safe and efficacious
          (2) their effectiveness may wane after @6months, requiring boosters.

          • Good reasoning and homework Jase. This virus unlike the flu kills not only the vulnerable. It’s ability to mutate Will mean the boosters you talk of will also be necessary to deal with the new variants because our rush to vaccinate still won’t be fast enough. This is why we can’t just sit back and see what happens like Oldie would prefer to do. The quicker we vaccinate the more our chance of slowing down the variants and increasing the efficiency of our current vaccine. Nice to hear a voice of reason.

            • Agree. I’ve been very hesitant to get the jab, with influential and trusted family hard anti Vax. I’ve weighed up lot’s of info and finally arrived at my personal decision to get vaccinated. I had my jab yesterday. I got really anxious and almost backed out at the last minute. Some of my family truly believe that in doing so I have committed suicide down the track. My feeling is that I have taken a considered risk and I feel relieved. I am more scared of a two week death sentence before Xmas than turning into a zombie in a year or two. Who knows? I may have made the wrong decision, but I’m ok with that. We do the best with the information we have and life is a risky existence at anytime. A hearty thank you to TDB and all you commentors for helping me arrive at my decision by sharing your thoughts advice experiences wisdom and worries. We are in this pandemic together and we will see the other side of it someday, wherever and whenever that will be. It’s ok to be scared, just take care of your mental health along the way. We make our own choices and we individually and collectively reap the consequences. So be it 🙂

              • You have my utmost respect. Thank you for sharing your circumstances and decision making process. Logic helping to temper fear – well done and thank you.

      • ……………….The push for universal vaccinations has reached cult-like adherence by vaccine-nannies across the globe. That fact alone should concern people since the Covid-19 vaccines have been mediocre at best in regards to defending our bodies against the disease. If they worked, Covid-19 would never have seen a spike in populations that are over 80% vaxxed. They can torture the numbers but they have no answers for the lack of positive results being delivered.

        Just because someone opposes medical tyranny and is skeptical of experimental drugs that do not deliver the immunity that was promised and that pose unambiguous risks of adverse reactions, that doesn’t make them an “Anti-Vaxxer.”

        • Kevin the wording in your replies betrays you. Pretending to be some kind of neutral expert on vaccines. Just another mouthpiece for anti vaxxers more like it. Don’t believe anything you say.

          • Thanks for the Ad Hominem reply. That’s a really useful way to help two parties agree on what they disagree on.
            It is a quote from the link, if you’d bothered to follow the link to have some idea of how the other side thinks.
            I’ve also had so many REAL vaccines and the 1980’s-90’s Vaccine passport equivalent.
            So engage brain before mouth/key-board.

          • The wording in Kevin’s reply betrays that he is doing some independent research . Why don’t you?

    • You are entitled to that oldie, trust is important, I really hope you don’t live to regret your decision though and by that I mean, you might get the virus and pass it on to someone putting them at greater risk than perhaps yourself. I think we (us sheep as you refer us) need to get to 95% vaccination rates, baaah!

    • How many vaccinated people do you need to see before you are willing to trust your body to it protection. I am glad you are happy to take the chance of taking up a bed in hospital that could have gone to a person with cancer just because you feel like it I hope you are proud of yourself. Life comes with risks but it also comes with obligations to do the best you can for your fellow travellers .

    • Oldie Those who are hesitant can find a reason not to vacc. 6.25 billion have been vaccinated nearly half the world’s population. Hardly experimental in the short term. Many who would otherwise not have it, have chosen to, to help their friends and family and their country. You could be one of those. Most people use the logic that we don’t have the luxury of the usual testing times but we need to get vaccinated now to save massive un necessary death. If you wait and see you’re not really waiting for seven years of tests you are waiting and hoping for some form of herd immunity that will protect you without you having to vaccinate. It isn’t there.

    • https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/
      Malone is an egotist and as is typical of aging white men in my experience very pompous and full of his own importance.He did not invent the pfizer vaccine he originated SOME of the fundamental science.
      Moderna have been making anti cancer drugs from the bio platform for mrna for 10 years as well as vaccines. this science has been well and truly TRIALED.It is relatively new medical technology and the release of the genome by China in January 2021 enabled Moderna to make the first vaccine. Pfizer were on the same page with their research but Moderna was the first. The release of the genome is why it took so little time to develop the vaccine. It does not have antibodies it is completely different to traditional vaccines. Any critic who is promoted by Steve Bannon and Tucker Carlson is not to be believed . All thinking informed people know that.
      The trial results for Pfizer and Moderna are available on Google . I suggest you do some high school level research and reading and inform your self properly instead being intellectually indolent and allowing your self to be suckered by bullshit promulgated by utter wankers!

  10. Have a look at the data from the highly jabbed countries and get back to me with an explanation of hospitalisation and death rates This is your opportunity to use science and data to create the case. Maybe you could do a summary of the VAERS data while you are at it. Looking forward to your response based of course on the science and data. Name calling and villification was not when I last checked a good basis for making the case on anything

    • I presume you’re referring to my comment ACG. Firstly I haven’t name called anybody. Secondly virtually all countries apart from us started with high rates of death in large populations. Thirdly if you’re vaccinated your chance of survival is much better regardless of whether you get the virus and end up in hospital or not. And lastly what have you got to loose. Nearly half the world’s population is vaccinated. They haven’t died. There’s a good chance that high vaccination rates will help us live better lives. Most people can accept that. Obviously you can’t.

    • This is classic! Aircooledguy demands explanations from the post’s author rather than contribute such knowledge as he claims to possess on hospitalisation, death rates and VAERS data.

      That’s the giveaway, of course, his unwillingness to put his sources on the table for others to check. Were he to do that, then his air of assumed superiority might be exposed for what it is: overheated.

      Forgive me, Aircooledguy, if I don’t comply. Why should I “do my own research” when thousands of scientists far better qualified than I have already done it, subjected it to peer review, and passed it on to the rest of us through reputable journals?

    • Aircooled
      Science may well support you point of view. You ceratinly are doing good research. But that is not the issue anymore. The issue is, Jacinda said when we reach 90% or more we will be set free. So by not vaccinating, you are effectively contributing to that target NOT being reached. Therefore you are kinda ‘holding the country to ransom’ so to speak. You may well be right, the vaccine may well do nothing. But according to the powers that be, the only thing that matters now is reaching that number – whether the vaccine works or not is another debate. We may all hate brussel sprouts, but the govt has said if “you all eat brussel sprouts, you will be free”. Can you see the problem? You simply refuse to eat the brussel sprouts, we ate them. Twice! If your science is so good, tell the govt to set us free now!

      • If the anti THIS ‘vaccine’ lot are 10% of the ‘vaccine population’ then maybe there is a problem and you have a point. But given the ‘total control’ of what is shown on all media (even this site) I doubt if we’re 1%.
        So maybe your efforts would be way better used helping those that need help going to get vaccinated or are fearful of nything Govts say and do.

      • No, science doesn’t support ACG’s view re explanation of hospitalisation and death rates. Analysis from the UK shows that if you are vaxxed (in the UK context) it reduces both hospitalisation and death. Around a 5 fold reduction for 70+ but noticeable for 50+. The data for those 50 are less clear since there is simply less hospitalisation / less death for younger people. Doesn’t mean younger people don’t catch the virus, just that the outcomes are much less severe and they don’t show up statistically.

        Well, that’s my interpretation. How someone – as was the case a few weeks back on TDB- could interpret the two charts (2b & 2d) to mean vaccination was ‘causing’ more death as age increases astounds me. Statistically challenged or some sort of bias – seeing what you want to see.

        Figures 2b & 2d

    • The pandemic, a narrative.

      The best immunity – to all 28 proteins of the virus – comes from infection. But no health system in the world (and Enzed is deservedly rated at a low level within the OECD) can cope with its people getting this natural infection immunity.

      So we chose to bubble up and wait for the vaccine, and watch and learn from its efficacy in practice in nations with spread.

      Now we know that when we open up it will spread here because vaccination does not stop a person from passing it on to others (lowers it somewhat only), and some if not the many will require boosters after 6 months (we’ve ordered Novavax, but may have to give third Pfizer boosters to some before this becomes available).

      The important unknown, what sort of immunity is gathered via infection after vaccination and how long this lasts, with a special importance as to the impact on slowing spread.

      The important known, vaccination reduces the severity of the illness and reduces numbers going to hospital.

  11. I’ll just note

    John Key said love money it will trickle down to those of the poor still alive eventually.

    David Parker said the government had a social contract with Auckland not to go back to Level 4 whatever happened – so elimination is dead.

    In the end, whether it is “love of money” or a “social contract” to let Auckland to have its freedom, the results look the same.

    SO its vax up, or become a hermit, or trust in the health influencer you trust on social media …

  12. So: comments on the massive gang funeral in Auckland today?
    A pro-gang government giving them millions of dollars, letting them run roadblocks in the first lockdown, allowing their numbers to multiply more than 50% with ensuing outbreaks of violence and now riddled with covid.
    One of the blocs who aren’t vaccinating or following lockdown rules are those passionate Labour voting gangs.
    No I don’t buy that it’s all capitalism’s fault, being poor doesn’t mean you have to choose to be a shitbag.

    • They are us, we are them.

      Why would you expect anything else in this “stamp it out farce” we are enduring.

      • It take no more the a cursory look at your posts tank to realize you are one of the individuals who drinks from the cup of cupidity.

        As you and others like you have proven over and over, those who embrace such piggishness ideologies – soon start to display the worst of our nature. And for the right, that means the casual death of thousands is acceptable.

        I know you won’t change, and you actually you have a habit to wallow in you hubris. So don’t think this is chastisement, just a reminder to others that purity of thought, no matter if it left or right is a dangerous road.

        That the right of politics are hip deep in this closed minded thinking at the moment is something we should reminded ourselves everyday. They are quick to jump on the idiots of the left who embrace Woke or PC culture – but there own love affair with the causal death of the weak, is pure sadism.

        • Ignatius. As you pointed out to Tank. Those with different thoughts on how, or if we come out of levels and open borders come from both sides of the political spectrum. Then you spoil it by insinuating that those on the right are selling their heresy to the weak on the left. The sooner you realise there will be just as many from left of politics that are business people or have genuine personal reasons for wanting to ease restrictions, than there is on the right, the better. There’s no right or wrong in this. We are all just people with different opinions. There’s no weak and strong and left and right. Just opinions.

    • I’ve just read that a man with gang affiliation was tested positive and allowed to self isolate at home. I despair at the stupidity of the authorities. They will never beat it like this.

    • CCCO I have replied but don’t think it’s been published. I agree with your sentiments. Have noticed a gang affiliate testing positive was left to self isolate and has broken the rules. FFS.

      • It’s worse.
        We have the video of the mob leader telling his crew to all vote Labour, same outfit gets 2.8 million dollars.

  13. im not keen of the vaccination. i wear my gloves and my mask and sanitise my hands and things but if covid gets me i’ll take a test, self isolate (i have 29 sick days and i live alone and don’t care for overseas travel or live venues) and either recover or die. its life and if i do die . . i’ll never have to work again which would be a relief . . i’m never going to own a house or retire in comfort so i’m keen to take covid head on.

    • Locktor, consider leaving mate. Jacinda has destroyed our country for us because we are not one of her rich friends but there is still hope elsewhere. Please keep your chin up and join the rest of us on the next flight out of here. NZ does not want our type anymore.

    • Locktor. You’re different from the others that are choosing not to be vaccinated. Your situation doesn’t sound great but you obviously have courage if you are willing to face the virus head on. I don’t know why you’re hesitant but that same courage you’re showing in your acceptance of getting Covid, could be used in your fear of having the vaccination. Every life is worth saving and you’re no exception. You say you’re not keen to be vaccinated. To me that reads like you could still be encouraged to get it. Maybe even chat to a friend or acquaintance who have been vaccinated.

    • Loktor, I completely understand your position. I am in a similar position and also seriously considered doing the same, as a “retirement” plan. However, I had to also consider my grown child’s position. He still needs his parent. I hope we can be together again over summer. I got the jab yesterday. Fingers crossed. You’re not alone Loktor. We’re all doing pandemic together. Hope to see you on the other side of it, whenever, wherever and however that will be 🙂

  14. Chris I resent the term Death Cult Capitalist completely, and sort of like those blame their poor existence on ‘neoliberalism’ every two seconds, you sort of lose the argument straight away. It’s lazy, and is as close to the Goodwin theory as you can get…”well I can’t call them Nazis so let’s come up with another term”

    If capitalism is so evil, then please feel free to throw out every device, piece of technology or engineering that you have, that was a result of capitalistic endeavour. You’ll have to probably stop writing blogs over the evil internet on evil devices made by slave labour.

    Notwithstanding, it’s a bit rich for those followers of socialism to throw the ‘death’ word around with gay abandon. Lest you be reminded of the open, free and kind societies of Cuba, USSR, East Germany and China and their propensity of murdering those who oppose (or a seen as a minor threat to oppose) those totalitarian regimes.

    • You’re to be congratulated, Bg – for rolling-out a truly impressive series of trite, right-wing clichés.

      All that indicates, however, is a person who is easily emotionally triggered by left-wing ideas and opinions, but lacks the intellectual equipment to counter them rationally.

      My advice to you: Stay away from sites like The Daily Blog. They obviously upset you. And your attempts to hit back against their content only succeed in making you look silly.

      • Thanks for replying Chris.

        1st of all, I am a capitalist in the sense that I’ve always, bar once, worked in the private sector. So by that definition “I’m a capitalist”
        Also I like to hear the other side of the ledger, hence I do read Martyn’s blog daily. I mostly disagree, but im finding more often, I agree. Staying securely put in the echo chamber of Kiwiblog etc, does no one any favours as I’m sure you’d agree. So no I will continue to read your articles, which I normally thoroughly enjoy, as you have in the past enlightened me.

        However I am triggered by the “Death Cult Capitalist” very strongly as it implies that all capitalism is evil, when as history has shown us, that the alternatives have been some of the most evil regimes in the history of mankind, not perpetrated on enemies, but their fellow countrymen. Notwithstanding capitalist adventure has brought some of the greatest leap forwards we have seen in the last 100 years.

        Now linking those who refuse to be vaccinated (I say this as someone who has had their first jab) to Death Cult Capitalism is extremely dangerous, as I do know many people who do not want to get vaccinated, and none of them are antivaxers by any stretch. Their trust in this govt is very low, and with the currently situation where a fully vaccinated person is just as locked up as an unvaccinated person, they see no incentives to vaccinate (right now, many are just waiting til they feel safe or see a benefit). Perhaps Key was correct, if the govt is serious about 90%, we do need a carrot and a stick? All we are getting is “if we get to xyz%, then we will perhaps not have such a severe lockdown” Perhaps it’s time for Jacinda to use the huge political capital she has to put her balls on the line as say “this is it, get vaccinated and we’ll give you this, if not, we’ll stay locked up forever”, which ironically many on this blog appear to echo, so we can agree on many things.

        Anyway thanks again for your reply, I will continue to read your ideas as I do respect your thoughts. Good day sir.

  15. im not interested in the vaccine at all new view and i’m not hesitant and in fear of it . . or in fear of covid like the rest of you sound like you are. i’ve a 99 per cent chance of dying from it just like the majority of healthy people. i have cardiovascular disease and have for 15 years. i gave up with medication 12 years ago and turned to food high in flaviniods and antioxidants, micro nutrients and essential fats and acids and vitamins.

    its people who like their processed food that should fear covid

    • My dad is 90, has a pacemaker and has been on heart and blood thinning medications since 27 years of age. He is fully vaccinated for fear of dying from this virus. It now appears he may end up dying from the anxiety of being around the unvaccinated(his words).

      • Yeah, the anxiety of it all is draining. Buckle up, the storm has arrived and it’s gathering pace. Hold on tight and hang in there everyone!

    • You better keep those gloves and mask on Locktor. Those close to you will need to know you’re unvaccinated as you will still be a risk to them even if they are.

  16. ‘Colourfully’? Correctly. There are no more resources to use up carelessly — the central reality of capitalism it turns out. It has been a brilliant time, worth it in my view. But a short blaze across the skies. Our failure to address the end of the glamour is insectal, exactly like our relatives.

    ‘I tort I ted’ here the real-in-death cult is the christian fundamentalists at the heart of the Yank Republican Party, and here in NZ, judging by my 4 siblings. But as a descendant calvinist, capitalism and fanatical protestant religion are the same thing. The English puritans and the Scots calvinists are the foundation of America.

Comments are closed.