Jesus wept this Government’s incompetence is extraordinary.
Doing sweet bugger all for the poorest amongst us, doing nothing meaningful on climate change (promising to do something in 31 years is NOT meaningful) and defining ‘transformational’ as ‘what ever Winston let’s me do’ is bad enough, but squandering any good will over gun law changes with an enormous goose step towards a Police State really is the icing on top of a shit cake.
I don’t like guns.
I don’t use guns.
I think we should have extremely strict gun laws.
I have agreed with everything Jacinda has argued right up until this enormous goose step towards a Police State…
Firearms Prohibition Orders: Wide police powers to take guns from dangerous people
Wide police powers are being considered to prevent dangerous people from having firearms, being in a home that has firearms, or being in the company of people with firearms.
Those powers might also enable police to search a certain property and confiscate firearms without a warrant.
Firearms Prohibition Orders (FPO) would give police such powers, and Police Minister Stuart Nash has today released a discussion document seeking public feedback.
Nash and Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern outlined the proposal during the post-Cabinet press conference today.
FPOs would be issued for high-risk people with a history of violent offending, gun crimes or family harm.
This would include not only gang members, but also people with extremist views or a history of abuse – though a conviction would be a minimum prequisite.
Key issues include human rights concerns including freedom of movement, freedom of association, the presumption of innocence and the right to be free from unreasonable search.
“FPOs would prevent people from being around others who have firearms, using them without supervision, or being at a location that enables access to guns,” Nash said.
That would mean someone under an FPO could commit a criminal offence by living in or visiting the home of a family member who legally has firearms at the home, or being in a car with hunting mates who have firearms in the vehicle, or being in the company of a friend who is legally carrying a firearm.
Police would be able to investigate someone subject to an FPO, including searching their property and confiscating firearms, parts and ammunition.
Asked if people with convictions for violent offences had fewer rights than those who did not, Ardern said it was a privilege to be able to come into contact with firearms and dangerous people should be deprived of that privilege.
…as someone who has just finished a 5 year battle with the bloody cops and their abuse of power, this joke of a policy idea gives so much power to the Police to make decisions that stop people from visiting their own family and has such loop holes in it you could plot a white supremacist atrocity in 2 years and drive on through it.
I doubt the Labour Party has the imagination for an idea as draconian as this so will assume it’s been cooked up by the cops.
This isn’t about protecting the public from guns, this is about gaining new means to explore anyone associated with guns.
The NZ Police currently gain an enormous amount of search and surveillance powers from the prohibition of cannabis, with cannabis possibly about to be made legal, the cops need a new drift net to go on fishing expeditions.
Why the Christ burn up all your political capital with police powers like this?
The real question mark over the Christchurch atrocity is how the hell did our intelligence apparatus manage to miss the white supremacist plotting it? Why should we grant police extraordinary powers like this because the SIS, GCSB, Police Intelligence Unit and half a dozen other acronyms missed the actual threat because they were too focused on Muslims, MANA, the Greens, Greenpeace, Nicky Hager, Jon Stephenson and Māori protesting big oil?
Unbelievable.
All this will do is guarantee ACT gain 3 MPs at the election.
You want extremely strict gun laws but no way of enforcing them. These weapons are too absolute to be nice about, to end in court room debates that leaves strict laws toothless and too lethal to pick up the pieces afterwards.
However by the end of this law making process I am sure the powers and abilities to enforce strict gun laws will be a compromised to a pointless mess that will probably and unintentionally satisfy your immediate concerns.
But make no mistake, our flaky, she’ll be right treatment of firearms up until now had left literally thousands of lethal weapons either accessible to or in the hands of those they should never be near.
Xray one problem is that NZ has had widespread civilian ownership of semi auto rifles for over a century, and only one mass firearm murder by a NZ citizen (David Grey with serious psych issues), and one tragedy committed by a foreigner. We had 685 suicides in NZ in the year ended June 2019, compared to 167 firearms homicides in the 15 years ended 2019 (including the CHCH atrocity). 382 road fatalities last year. Statistically NZ is very safe from firearm murder, and the average citizen not involved in crime has statistically around 0.0% likelihood of being shot randomly. The dramatic response to the CHCH atrocity is exactly what the terrorist set out to achieve, the NZ Government has granted his every wish.
I don’t think any valid cost/benefit analysis was done on the firearms law changes and buyback, it was pure emotion.
One small step for the 1984 U Will Obey Us brigade
One giant leap for the new order of one world/one religion/one leader
All through the firearms saga, the police have been using the government as a glove puppet. They have fed them made-up statistics, (more commonly known as ‘lies’) to frighten them into precipitous and unwarranted action. It probably didn’t help to have a nursing mother as prime minister, roiling with hormones evolved to enhance her protective instincts. The net result will be a massive bureaucratic overhead, a loss of personal freedom, but make us no safer.
Once implemented the cops will have a way around the need for search warrants: Just wait for them to start kicking down doors without search warrants and justify their actions by saying “Oh, we thought there were firearms on the premises”
perhaps Jacinda feels obliged to do whatever the police want since her dad was a career cop and the police did clear Clark (on their own initiative of course)
“The real question mark over the Christchurch atrocity is how the hell did our intelligence apparatus manage to miss the white supremacist plotting it?” – One would think the Royal Commission will answer this but I don’t hold much hope. Who knows, maybe as some law enforcement agencies overseas sometimes do, they were aware of him the whole time, perhaps even encouraging him via undercover operatives, with the intention of foiling his plans at the last moment and basking in the glory of busting a terrorist. And then things didnt go to plan
Excellent points Tim
In answer to your question, the probable reason the Christchurch shooter was was missed was because the cops requested and got approval from government to reduce their oversight of those applying for gun licences. This select committee was chaired by none other than Jacinda Ardern, but both parties dropped the ball on this. Badly.
Apparently all those background checks were taking too much police time: Time that could be better spent speed trapping instead I suppose.
Previously the applicants references and wife/partner/parents would have been interviewed in person, in confidence. There was also an unofficial process in place whereby volunteer shooting instructors in the clubs would notify the cops of applicants they thought were mentally unfit. I’m told the Christchurch shooter’s references were all ‘Facebook friends’ and his parents back in Aussie weren’t even phoned.
I don’t expect the Royal Commission to tell us anything of substance. The politicians and cops backsides will be thoroughly covered. This is a quote from the commission’s home page:
“Will the Royal Commission publish its findings and recommendations?
No. The Royal Commission provides the report to the Governor-General who then passes it on to the Government to consider. The Government will make decisions on what information is published.”
So don’t hold your breath waiting for answers.
The PM’s dad has nothing to do with it and there wasn’t anything to clear Clarke from in the first place.
Well surprise, surprise. No actually no surprise at all. I have held a deep distrust of so called Labour since they started the globalist neo liberal ball rolling back in the 1980’s. Their insincerity with the passage of the CP-TPP and now this come as no surprise but of course it wont stop people from acting as proxy apologists or swallowing the hype. Probably another three years of this lot followed by more of the same. No need to vote in my view it no longer makes a difference.
The heavily-armed preventative policing squads now being ‘trialled’ need to be justified somehow.
Consultation will close at 5pm Monday 13 January 2020. Everyone has a chance to submit their view and concerns.
“Jesus wept this Government’s incompetence is extraordinary.”
This government is hardly incompetent. Look at what it’s achieved?
Our government has our 7.5 billion dollar surplus and we still have homelessness and poverty.
Our government only listens to Big Daddy Business while we can go fuck ourselves because the denizens of OUR government don’t give one small feathered fuck about what we think. What’s more, they don’t have to.
OUR government is a neoliberal gubbimint and everything’s for sale in a neoliberal world.
A large chunk of that surplus is on paper and this government are still doing a hell of lot more than National ever did. They cant fix everything in just 2 years.
In multiple fatalities since 1990 theres Raurimu, Bain homicides, Schlaphers and in plain murders or attempted murders using firearms, I’m losing count in South Auckland, this year alone.
Were it not for medical intervention the numbers would be far worse.
Sorry, guns are a big problem.
You mean dangerous people are a big problem.
Let’s look at the US: Which gun control laws would have prevented Sept 11 or the OKC bombing?
Take your time.
“I don’t like guns.
I don’t use guns.
I think we should have extremely strict gun laws.
I have agreed with everything Jacinda has argued right up until this enormous goose step towards a Police State…”
So you do want a police state, just not that particular version of a police state.
If there were even 100 MEN left in your nation, they’d have formed up, kicked in the doors, s ho t any pigs in the way, dragged that cvnt into the streets, and used her to decorate a lamppost. Preferably with her own intestines.
If you tolerate fascists, you continue to get fascists.
Rubbish. I want continuous police operations across the breadth of community policing which involves prosecuting white collar crime instead of buddying upto banks and big businesses.
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