Eye watering State overreach in Gay Conversation Therapy law

By
Martyn Bradbury
-
90
2041

Government to criminalise conversion therapy for children and teens, and protect adults from ‘serious harm’

The Government will criminalise conversion therapy with a maximum of five years imprisonment facing those who cause “serious harm”.

Conversion therapy attempts to change or suppress a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity. The practice has been broadly criticised as bad science, and harmful to the people subjected to the claimed therapy.

The Labour Government had promised to produce a bill banning the practice within a year of being elected. Justice Minister Kris Faafoi, on Friday, released the Government’s proposed new law to criminalise the practice.

“Conversion practices have no place in modern New Zealand. They are based on the false belief that any person’s sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression is broken and in need of fixing,” he said, in a statement.

5 years in jail for Gay Conversion Therapy? Sweet Jesus at Mardi Gras, that’s an eye watering State overreach of power for a practice that can’t be even be numerically quantified.

This smells like a terrible woke overreach.

5 years in prison for chasing gay ghosts out of people is insanely punitive when compared to a range of other crimes!

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Why is it that we on the Left are first to argue that prison is a violent counter productive organization and yet the second we have power to punish people for our issues we hold dear we get all Caligula like with revenge fantasies!

5 years for a religious teacher or acolyte who helps in a pray the gay away jamboree is martyrdom not reasonable punishment!

As far as I am concerned, anyone who believes in a magical flying invisible spell casting Wizard for their moral and ethical compass and uses that magical flying invisible spell casting Wizard to force a sexual orientation on another human being is fucking insane and incredibly damaging.

You can’t pray the gay ghosts away and anyone suggesting otherwise is a demented clown.

However, our own Ministry of Health questioned banning gay conversion therapy and that needs to be acknowledged and understood more because they claim criminalising this would be more detrimental.

Are we saying an adult who chooses to pray the Gay away is not allowed to? Who defines the series harm to trigger a criminal act?

What if there is no malicious intent by the person doing the praying? What if they believe this garbage?

Now again, I think that person needs to seek actual counselling and real therapy to come to peace with who they are, but are we going to criminalise if people choose this hocus pocus?

Who will we be arresting here? The religious quack selling this nonsense or the person who assists?

Again.

I think Gay Conversion Therapy is crazy and harmful and stupid, but I think there are an enormous amount of things that are crazy, harmful and stupid that we don’t criminalise.

What I would hate to see is some religious nutter actively attempting to breach the law and becoming a martyr for this stupid cause.

I agree that the civil process via the HRC would be successful and a far better way to respond to this, but criminalising it with such extreme punishment is an enormous overreach.

Large swathes of NZ are already fearful woke activists will start a purge once Hate Speech laws are passed. Promising to lock up Christians for 5 years for praying homosexuality away doesn’t help dispel a punitive social engineering narrative from emerging.

With inequality soaring, entire generations locked out of the housing market,  22512 vulnerable people waiting for emergency housing and a climate crisis upon us, I can not understand why punitive penalties for Christians for a religious practice that is as damaging as it is stupid is a responsible use of the Legislative agenda!

We surely have far greater issues confronting us than criminalising a disgraced religious practice that we don’t know how many people are actually committing.

Surely?

 

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90 COMMENTS

  3. It just gets better and better, doesn’t it? Five years for “gay conversion therapy”. This is a government with twisted priorities and no sense of proportion.

    I wonder what is it that bugs critics of gay conversion so much. That it doesn’t work? Or that it does work? I have no idea.

    • Pope Punctilious II: “I wonder what is it that bugs critics of gay conversion so much. That it doesn’t work? Or that it does work? I have no idea.”

      I’ve wondered this as well. At uni many years ago, I did a lot of reading about homosexuality, in relation to other animals besides humans. At that stage, there was no consensus on what caused it. I doubt that there’s been any advancement since. Since the cause is unknown, but the characteristic can be found in many species, I doubt that gay conversion therapy works, given what it’s predicated upon. But you never know, I guess.

      For the life of me, I can’t figure out why the government would propose a cockamamie law of this sort when, as Martyn rightly points out, this society has serious (possibly intractable) issues facing it.

      Oh dear….I think I’ve just answered my own question. The government does this – and the hate speech nonsense, AND the dangerous and undemocratic SNA stuff – because it can. Whereas it has absolutely no idea at all how to fix the really serious problems plaguing this country.

      • D’Esterre – What caused it ? It can probably happen very easily, and at a variety of levels. Never saw the film, but by chance I recently read Annie Proulx’s, “ Broke Back Mountain” , and yet again I discovered the best short story I’ve ever read. It’s an outstanding narrative to which I don’t want to do disservice by describing its nuances, but would be applicable to some men of my generation – without exploring the hell in which they lived – who were my friends. Proulx’s tale could be a beneficial read for the religious wankers criminally careless about whose lives they destroy for no good reason.

        In post- modern western society, and in New Zealand in particular, the gentle continuum of sexuality became extremely polarised, thence confused. Politicians meddling in the mix need to just step back – focus on food and warmth and places to call home.

  4. I don’t know what is involved in CGT and don’t feel like looking it up. However I suspect it involves more than just “praying”. (Think Gloria Vale maybe?)

    • There was a guy called Riddel who was practicing it in Nelson.
      A journo went under cover and their techniques seems like very ordinary therapy techniques eg coping affirmations. They don’t work of course, but five years in prison?

  5. 5 years maximum imprisonment is heavy duty, no two ways about it. Deep down inside the Greens really do fancy the world of San Quentin don’t they? Do they get a bit giddy over the merest hint of a gas chamber too?

    But…

    Rugby: All Black Shannon Frizell ‘put fear into my girl’, says alleged victim’s mother
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12461459

    Bash a couple of women, smash a tooth out in your rage and bingo, avoid conviction and get diversion that was supposedly for small offenses like a first time shoplifter.

    Why, because the rugby union old boy network is alive and well and nutures these fucks. ALL BLACK, Shannon Frizell got the wet bus ticket treatment from a judge because he (in reality)
    A) is a rugby player
    B) is an ALL BLACK
    C) the coach of the ALL BLACKS thinks that’s all good and he is part of the ALL BLACK family that has that brand/ethics/morals/thug life that all ALL BLACKS aspire to.

    My prediction is if a rugby union player gets charged with GCT a couple of Hail Mary’s will suffice. If he is an ALL BLACK, an all expenses paid trip to Queenstown Lake Resorts for you and da Boyz! And a day out on the local links course.

    • I wonder at how the legal wording will differentiate a person willingly “converting” vs trans people “converting” especially since sex and gender appear to be becoming something one now chooses.

      What could possibly go wrong.

    • A whistleblower at the the Tavistock clinic in the UK highlighted the use of the clinic by homophobic parents to trans gay kids into being “heterosexuals”. That the considerable lack of oversight allows the Tavistock clinic to commit heinous crimes in the UK that are of a similar nature to what happens in Iran were gay boys face the horrific option of a a forced “sex change” or death.

      That after the bourgeoisie lifestyle leftists got to virtue signal with their vanguard elite ally activism on gay marriage, that they went off to find more greener pastures to extract even more social capital and turned on gay people just as quickly as they had jumped on the bandwagon in the first place. Reverting back to the previous extreme homophobic standpoint when they accused Peter Ellis of satanic child abuse with no evidence in Christchurch and then using their position of power to make sure that he didn’t receive a fair trial or pardon (while failing to disclose their involvement and conflict of interest). After all, what proletariat is going to send their children to a bourgeois civic creche for neoliberal bureaucrats?

    • This Bill is indeed targeting gay conversion, but in a deceptive way. The old homophobia of church and state to convert gays barely exists. It has been replaced (and the suitable wording inserted into this Bill) by a new form of gay conversion. The rapid uptake of gender conversion, especially of girls to boys, is the new form because it legally replaces same homosexual with the fiction of heterosexual attraction. When young lesbians meet resistance to their same sex relations, gender ideology promotes their gender re-assignment as boys. Similarly, men who always thought that all lesbians needed was a good ‘f**k’, can with sex self I-D (another law change accompanying this Bill) claim to be Lesbians. Lesbians who reject cock can under this new law by sent to prison where they will find themselves locked up with those same predatory men. That is why these law changes serve to perpetuate male dominance of women and girls behind the facade of a progressive human rights rhetoric. It is the patriarchy in drag (not butch girls or feminine boys) that has to be resisted and the liberation of women and girls guaranteed by ending the patriarchal capitalist system starting now!
      Read TRANS by Helen Joyce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBCKSsi-wTo

      • Exactly Dave. Dangerous drugs, politicised “affirmation only” therapy and perverted surgeries that castrate the patient is worse than any Christian counseling. The TRA movement are covering up widespread abuse

  7. Wait…. Is it 5 years for the practicer or the gay person?

    I’m gay and I’ve been attacked by my so called community for wondering if I’m gay or because I was molested a lot as preteen to teen that I was kind of programmed to be gay, it’s actually quite common for people to think they are gay due to sex abuse… Anyway…

    I think it should be illegal for doing this to children and against anyone’s will but if a consenting adult wants to try the state should mind it’s business

    Therapy and counseling would be much better than gay conversion therapy imo but good luck even getting on a waiting

  8. It just keeps getting better. Wokeborg has taken the capital of (little) Aotearoa.

    This was evident when I got my first jab yesterday – I won’t bore you with the details as will trigger a few that habit this site but it was like going back to primmer 3 in terms of the way you were treated.

      • I don’t fucking know – it was 30 odd years ago. Point is the dumbing down of our institutions to the lowest common denominator and people willingly accepting it borders on the criminal. What is the point of an education if you don’t want people to progress with their lives

      • Sonic: I was educated in that system. Primers 1-4, then Standard 1. That’s the way our schools worked when I was young.

    • I don’t know where you are Frank, but I’ve not been done yet, but they sit in rows on chairs in our small noisy mall, looking like something out of the twilight zone, with similar rows seated inside an old shop utilised for the purpose, no privacy, and more and more it reminds me of Solzhenitsyn’s “ Cancer Ward, “ or anything of Solzhenitsyn’s really, and I don’t like it; my GP quit and the replacement practitioners text, and I don’t, so I am ignored- the good doctor wrote letters and used a telephone as did the nurses, not so very long ago…
      I will get done, somehow, so as not to risk infecting others, and can wear my headphones to block the mall music, and the dreadful damn music coming from Countdown, and the odd busker, and yank my top down to bare my upper arm, and slink off duly humbled – if humbled is the appropriate word…

    • Frank the Tank: “…I won’t bore you with the details…”

      Oh please, please, do bore us, I beg of you! We’re about to have our first vaccinations (reluctantly, in my case), and we’d really like to know what to expect.

      • Well they don’t wipe your arm first with a swab or anti-bacterial, if that’s of any help to you – they just hold and stab. So you’d be advised to have at least one arm clean, and hope that that’s the arm they want. I can check that out later.

        • Applewood: “Well they don’t wipe your arm first with a swab or anti-bacterial, if that’s of any help to you – they just hold and stab.”

          Jeezus….that doesn’t sound very hygienic. Do these people actually know what they’re doing? As in, are they nurses or the like? Or just ring-ins?

          “…our small noisy mall…”

          That sounds suspiciously like the Jo’ville mall (though not sure about “noisy”, given how empty that place is now), where we’re supposed to be having our vaccinations. We’ve just gone off the idea…

          • No, it’s not Johnsonville, but it is western suburbs, and is being signposted as run by a western suburbs medical practice. I’ve been questioning the jabbed, having not always fancied the look of the jabbers standing in the doorway.

            The first lot of patients appeared one morning several weeks ago, all elderly Asian and Pacifica, sitting in a quiet forlorn- looking row. I asked
            Mall business owners how did these folk know to come along, but nobody knew.

            Yesterday a mall worker told me she’d been done, so I asked her if she’d been swabbed, and she said, “ No.” Two weeks ago I asked a nurse-looking person at the vac centre doorway how one got done, and he said that at that stage they were just doing patients from that local medical practice. They now have signs saying, “ By appointment only”, presumably from ringing the 0800 number which pops up online – and I suppose also on television, which I don’t watch.

            Seeing the persons seated inside through the open doorway, did send me checking on how to spell Solzhenitsyn – whom I do reread – but you know the old assembly- line types of Russian hospital practices were probably far more efficient than their state-run food shops.

            Wash both your arms anyway – I shall – if and when the time comes – and don’t worry about being a bore – heaven could be full of them.

    • Yep. After years of ‘flu shots at my GP’s, I made an appointment to have one at a local chain pharmacy. It was done up the front of the shop, where I was told I had to sit for another 20 minutes, in full view of all the foot traffic, by a bossy lady assistant. For me, it was dehumanising experience I’m not particularly keen to repeat.

    • Given that the Israeli government has announced that the Pfizer vaccine is around 69% ineffective, primer 3 treatment for those who line up for it is possibly appropriate.

  9. This is simply the politics of distraction: “Quick, look over here…”

    Don’t look at, for eg:
    Covid vaccination goalpost shifting
    MIQ processes weak & compromised
    Ministry of Health repeated delivery failures
    Hate speech overreach
    He PuaPua seperatism by stealth
    $2.75M to the Mongrel Mob
    No money for mental health, Govt programs failure
    Nurses pay increasingly uncompetitive with Oz, Govt offer miserable
    Motels/Hotels used as emergency social housing $1M/day with families placed next door to gang members
    House prices up 25% in a year
    Building costs up by >20%
    Building Materials and trades shortages
    Govt housing building a failure
    Inflation highest in a decade
    Primary production once again the most essential NZ economic wellbeing contributor increasingly criticised, constrained & costly to operate

    I wonder if the Labour defenders who rush to comments could reflect on their response to the above if it was a National led government in charge & responsible for it all.

    Disclosure: I voted Labour

    • Robbie Wgtn. – Yes, well put.

      The only “good “ thing about this abominable overreach is that this so-called therapy may well not happen all that often. No stats anywhere, likely just the feelings of the Greens – and the least said about that the better.

      The bad, the truly bad thing, is dim politicians setting a precedent of interfering and meddling in medical practice where they have no right or expertise to be doing so, which is both foolhardy and dangerous – and if they don’t know that, then they should.

      • This bill also removes the right of patents to refuse hormone blockers for their child.
        We can’t even call these attacks on basic rights the start of a slippery slope anymore.

    • This is a shameful list for this government to face up to .
      This gay conversion rubbish is just a plan to take attention away from this list .
      Their disasterous first terms inaction could have been slated to trying to please the other 2 players but now they have a clear pitch but are achieving not .
      The nurses are digging in and police are unhappy . These people are home buyers or renters and are displaying the hurt of the working person as dreams vanish .

    • Your quote imply to Labour, you describe as the politics of distraction. It is very reminiscent of John Key’s “nothing to see here, time to move on…” when he/his government got into a sticky mess . It was he and his government who made a lot of the mess the current government is trying, admittedly not very impressively at times, to fix. Much of your above list of opinions and/or facts, if not directly or indirectly related to Covid, had their origins during the last National government.
      Curses on both their houses!
      But God – or someone – help those on the Struggle Streets of A/NZ if a Nat/Act government are the lot we will have to endure after 2023.
      I’ll take the present lot – if only because they’re much the lesser of the two evils.

      • Much of your above list of opinions and/or facts, if not directly or indirectly related to Covid, had their origins during the last National government.

        Yes! Very much so.

      • Verity Verdant: “Much of your above list of opinions and/or facts, if not directly or indirectly related to Covid, had their origins during the last National government.”

        I say to you, as I’ve said to others who continue to support this government against the stark evidence of its incompetence: give it up. It’s wearing thin.

        I’m a former voter for this lot, but not last election, and likely never again.

        The roots of the housing crisis go back much, much further than the previous National government. It’s necessary to go right back to the late 1980s, and to the then Labour government, for its genesis. To be sure, subsequent governments haven’t helped.

        I remind you of numbers on the emergency housing waitlist in 2017, and what those numbers look like now. I remind you further (as if anyone needed reminding) of what house prices were like then as opposed to now. Everything this government has done (or failed to do) in an attempt to ratchet back house prices and improve conditions for renters, has made the situation worse. It was foreseeable.

        We have that Key fellow to blame (tangentially) for He Puapua. But the present government ought to have seen that document for what it is, and refused to implement any of it. Instead, Labour failed to tell Winston Peters about its existence, failed to be honest and campaign on it, and as RobbieWgtn points out above, it’s introducing it by stealth.

        We also have the Natz – in particular Steven Joyce – to thank for the dire situation in the universities regarding STEM subjects and lack of funding. But the Natz aren’t to blame for the awful cancel culture and the unscientific nonsense which has taken root in those institutions. Again: the causes of that lie much further back.

        Aside from those issues, the current government has to take the blame for RobbieWgtn’s list above. They’re into their second term: no excuses now.

    • RobbieWgtn: you’ve summed it up with that list.

      “Disclosure: I voted Labour”

      So did I, in 2017. But not in 2020, and likely never again.

  10. When are the government going to focus on the REAL issues facing the average NZer right now instead of continually playing woke style identity politics. Rome is burning and they’re fiddling around

    surely there are more important issues that demand attention right now than GCT?!

    This Labour government is just terrible 🙁

    • Rome is burning and they’re fiddling around

      The planet is burning and they’re stacking the bonfire! With pinus radiata.

      Now that, imo, IS a prison-worthy offence.

  11. I really don’t think, if Labour are really serious about introducing this policy, that it is a good example to set for the young people of this nation. It would be more useful to delve into policies which are left unperturbed, housing which hasn’t been adequately solved, high food prices, high fuel prices, etc. It’s the economy needs fixing at the moment, not anyone’s sexual orientation. Those who pray for their own moral convictions to be honoured by their Creator shouldn’t receive prison time.

  12. There’s a lot of Puritan punitiveness in some of this wokesterism, almost as if it springs from the same middle-class, out of touch milieu as the Sensible Sentencing Trust. Actually, it probably does. Man to pig, and pig to man, as George Orwell said.

    • They are a secular religion, if I can slightly misquote Nick Cave, without the redeeming features like cheek turning and forgiveness.
      I wonder if we might understand them better as such – there are the puritans in leadership who must be ever more pure lest we see they aren’t wearing robes, there are the party membership who believe and go to church on Sunday to maintain their new cultural orthodoxy and the power and righteousness they derive from it and then there are the bulk of their voters who believe because they don’t want to go to hell.

      This religious metaphor also works if you consider the history of church and state, the power struggles through the Middle Ages and separation thereof -I would argue we are going back to a time when the state is seeking to be both.

      • Keepcalmcarryon – “ … we are going back to a time when the state is seeking to be both.” That we are. I wonder what they will forbid the populace to pray for next ?

        • And, are these present/ proposed laws the start of this woke religion’s Inquisition? 5 yrs in Serco… sounds a lot like torture chamber punishment.

  13. If our TDB Editor is correct that this is unnecessary then it will just sit there on the books pretty much unused like some other laws I guess. But I feel it is nice to have there just in case we get a few US pros turn up here trying to turn a dollar “converting poofters”. The US anti Cannabis lobby did just enough of a good job subverting the Cannabis Referendum in league with Family First to make my concern justifiable.

    What about religious conversion on children not mature enough to have formed their own world view? that is a serious one that gets me going! “Give me the child till 7 and I shall give you the man” to paraphrase Aristotle and several other religious nutters the statement is attributed to.

    We try and protect vulnerable people of various descriptions in our society–admittedly not always very effectively–but at least we try. And gays should be protected too by the law as much as we can manage.

    • I have a lot of friends who are counsellors and I will tell them all to avoid working with gay and trans clients because of this legislation.

      Its bloody hard enough for them as it is working with clients with mental health issues without the threat that a client might mis interprete whats been said and scream “Conversion therapy”

      Therapists like to be able to explore issues with clients and help clients reach the best outcome for themselves, but there are always some people who will misrepresent what actually happens (refer articles on the blog about wrongful accusations of sexual abuse). My advice to every counsellor in the country is to run a millon miles from this area of work. Its not worth the risk

    • Interesting point there TM on religious indoctrination of children. I too have strong opinions on that, and arguments on either end. It’s all a bit “relative” to other factors. For instance, say, being raised atheist by an otherwise abusive parent (“Mum is the name of God on the hearts and lips of all children” – movie The Crow) doesn’t nurture any hope in young peoples hearts either. I think that’s the key really. I hope there is a magical flying wizard who grants wishes and makes everything alright, even though it doesn’t make a lot of sense in this dichotomatic physical existence. Sometimes there really is only hope to hold onto, to keep “sane” on struggle street, until one learns to nurture one’s own self. Just mho 🙂

      • Sinic – Religiously indoctrinated children can choose to quit that religion, albeit not always very easily. Children given gender distorting drugs may have physiological and psychological changes not easily discarded if they grapple with their identity or simply change their minds along the way.

        • Snow White: “Children given gender distorting drugs may have physiological and psychological changes not easily discarded if they grapple with their identity or simply change their minds along the way.”

          Exactly. It’s a serious worry, that such drugs are being prescribed, in pursuit of what is – to someone my age, who’s seem it all before – very obviously a fad. There’s nothing at all biological about it, and it’s too widespread to be solely a mental health issue, though doubtless some of it will be attributable to that.

          There’s tragedy ahead, or likely happening already, no doubt about it.

          • Yes, someone, I think Shona, has said that she worries for her grandchildren, and so do I. There is simply far too much intrusive meddling going on by government, with huge over-reactions actually creating further problems – and these are existential problems for children to whom we owe a duty of care.

            My opinion of the Greens could not be lower, they unleashed a tiger with the ‘ ban conversion therapy,’ another big over-react, and are too busy admiring themselves to realise that in the world, others are too busy working to worry about pollies’ absorption in gender variations – doesn’t keep the cold out or feed tummies.

  14. Anyone engaging in such a disgusting activity should be stripped of all societal standing, made to stand in the main square proclaiming that LGBTQ is a god sanctioned state and it was the devil hisself that influenced his bad deed. That or be shot. 5 years is nothing for such inhumane behaviour relating to millenia of persecution.

  15. Corey Humm you are right about waiting lists for counselling.

    Mark my words this will either drive counsellors out of the profession or they will insist they don’t see trans or gay people, because of the risk of 5 years in jail. Seriously. Counsellors generally like to asks questions, and explore with the client what might be going on (unless they say being gay or trans isn’t an issue for them)

    Any counsellor with half a brain will run a millon miles from this.

  16. Labour and the Greens are completely under the influence of trans activists here.

    I would advice any therapist to avoid working with gay or trans people because of the risk involved.

    The fuss about something like conversion therapy, when this govt is still allowing the use of puberty blockers in teens, which are now being banned in several countries which research shows is a best experiemental with no benefits at worse harmful.

    FFS I really worry about this

    • https://segm.org/Sweden_ends_use_of_Dutch_protocol May 2021
      From that link:
      “The Karolinska Hospital in Sweden recently issued a new policy statement regarding treatment of gender-dysphoric minors. This policy, affecting Karolinska’s pediatric gender services at Astrid Lindgren Children’s Hospital (ALB), has ended the practice of prescribing puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones to gender-dysphoric patients under the age of 18…”

      “The Karolinska Hospital’s new policies echo a growing international concern over the proliferation of medical interventions that have a low certainty of benefits, while carrying a significant potential for medical harm. ” More at the link

  17. Interesting point there TM on religious indoctrination of children. I too have strong opinions on that, and arguments on either end. It’s all a bit “relative” to other factors. For instance, say, being raised atheist by an otherwise abusive parent (“Mum is the name of God on the hearts and lips of all children” – movie The Crow) doesn’t nurture any hope in young peoples hearts either. I think that’s the key really. I hope there is a magical flying wizard who grants wishes and makes everything alright, even though it doesn’t make a lot of sense in this dichotomatic physical existence. Sometimes there really is only hope to hold onto, to keep “sane” on struggle street, until one learns to nurture one’s own self. Just mho 🙂

  18. I don’t know how to calculate exploitation but it should be reducing over time. That’s what we want ain’t it.

  19. So if someone is gay or lives as a gay person then decide in thier 20’s/30’s that they want to live as a straight man will he/she he thrown in jail for converting himself/herself?

    • Excellent question. I assume we’ll have to await the draft legislation wording. Analysis, debate, word tweaking to satisfy “everyone with money in the game of life”, rinse n repeat to 3rd reading, initial accused, judgement day, appeals etc. Catch up in 20 years, after I’m dead and the “world” has moved on. Or just watch a sci-fi movie now 🙂

  20. Wouldn’t it be better to regulate therapy in the same way medicine is regulated. So registered psychologists, counselers therapists etc. who then have to treat people professionally.

    I remember when I was in my teens and somewhat troubled, I’d also had a older brother of a friend who tried to have sex with me. I was told that I was a homo because a older guy wanted to have sex with me, and I was thinking that I was too. Anyway the psychologist I saw helped me realise that I wasn’t gay. It was a form of self loathing and I was also heading down a self destructive path. Essentially I would reject anything good for me. This was a long time ago sorry if im not making much sense.

    So anyway I’m certainly not gay, and I’ve been in situations where I could have chosen to have fun with a guy, or go with the girl, & it’s been the girl every time.

    • Makes a lot of sense Terry. It’s good you could find someone who could help you. Under the new legislation it is possible your therapist would feel on shaky ground.

      Therapists should all be registered with professional bodies who can receive their complaints and determine what’s appropriate.

      Get the bloody govt out of this

      Btw lots of people seek out a range of therapies for which there is no evidence for and they are entitled to do that

  21. Next step, it will be the Fulan Gong, Catholics and Muslims getting 5 years for converting people to their beliefs. Oh shit, that’s exactly what this law is.

  23. “….a practice that can’t be even be numerically quantified.”

    or even clearly defined in legal terms.

    It suffers from the same problem as hate speech: An overly emotional reaction to something they don’t like but cannot easily define.

    • “Asked whether parents could be jailed if they stopped their 12-year-old children from taking hormone-blockers, Faafoi said anyone intentionally changing or suppressing someone’s gender identity or sexual orientation could be breaking the law.”

      From Anker’s link.

  25. Jail for the christians and the threat of jail for anybody working in that space by the woke (we already have someone post in TDB that they faced serious HR misconduct by a woke complaint about them being uncomfortable with putting pronouns after their name. Militant Death threats around the world to Harry Potter writer types, Bomber etc.

    Meanwhile decades of underpaying workers or illegal workers is a $2500 fine but most of the complaints are not actually investigated….. obviously not a priority for this government to jail or punish appropriately exploitation which is economically wonderful for the 1% (not so much for the other 99%) when you believe in a low wage economy inspire of decades of these neoliberal policies dragging NZ down in world rankings.

    Instead the focus is to jail with the thought police!

    BTW as talking to a senior person at DHB and they said that the majority of mental health now relates to gender reassignment appointments coming to them, and it’s often being pushed by those around them aka woke relatives etc. It’s a pressure thing for many. Only about 2% are traditionally transgender not something like 20% that is happening now!

    • saveNZ: “….majority of mental health now relates to gender reassignment appointments coming to them, and it’s often being pushed by those around them aka woke relatives etc. It’s a pressure thing for many. Only about 2% are traditionally transgender not something like 20% that is happening now!”

      I’m not at all surprised at this. I’ve commented elsewhere that this is a fad, like many others I’ve seen in my longish life. A particularly dangerous fad, given the potential for serious damage to individuals, but a fad nonetheless. It’ll pass, like all the others.

  26. Save Nz, that doesn’t surprise me about gender presenting to mental health. And Faifoi want rule out that if you are a parent who says no to you 12 year kid re puberty blockers, you could face criminal charges. Someone ought to sue

    • Anker – “ Someone ought to sue.” Years later somebody may sue, whichever way the decision making pans out. That’s the sort of world we are living in now.

    • Anker: “And Faifoi want rule out that if you are a parent who says no to you 12 year kid re puberty blockers, you could face criminal charges.”

      Faafoi is a naive idiot, pushing a piece of legislation which is unnecessary, and worse, risks serious harm to children. He wouldn’t be the first politician who fits that description, of course. And won’t be the last, sadly.

      • D’ Esterre – You mightn’t be being fair on Chris Faafoi here – he may just be a man trying doing his job – this wasn’t his brain child – and he could find it as worrying as I do, and it’s not unknown for men to find themselves out of their depth at the hands of determined women, and my mum had quite a lot to say about that too.

        Every politician in Parliament, especially those who are parents, should be concerned about this whole issue – and be child-focused – and not use kids as political soccer balls.

  27. 71 comments as … looms. Good honest point Martyn. Of course, not fucking off idiots is difficult to do. America is going Fascist probably on that point. That’d suggest fucking off idiots is the way to go.

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