Why is a Labour Government borrowing billions for speculators???


Look, I have no problems with the Reserve Bank creating money to lend, that’s fine, because my expectation of that decision is for the NZ Government to borrow that money at no interest to spend on immediate infrastructure, Covid survival costs and welfare that looks after the new wave of unemployed while ensuring well funded public services that help all people.

But that’s not what the fuck is happening here.

The money is being pumped into naked speculation, that’s why the fucking house prices have erupted through the roof, people are taking out low low low interest rates from the banks to speculate.

Why the Christ is a Labour Government fuelling naked speculation?

AGAIN – happy as Marx for the Reserve Bank to conjure up some cash, but that cash is supposed to be for the Government to borrow at a zero interest rate to do all the things I’ve mentioned above!

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

Bernard Hickey is making the exact same point!

Government should use printed money to increase benefits, which will be spent in the economy

They can’t seem to help it, but the Government and the Reserve Bank seem determined to print up to $150 billion in cash to make the very rich even richer, and to ignore calls to pass just a few of those billions to the hundreds of thousands of kids and parents living in poverty.

Why is a Labour Government choosing a path to massively widen inequality and doing comparatively very little to reduce child poverty? It boggles the mind, but it’s understandable when every other Government in the developed world is doing the same. It’s not working overseas, and it’s not working here. It needs to change.

Unfortunately the current breed of Left wing activists are middle class woke identity politics warriors who are really good at starting  petitions on Action Station to Free the Nipple for Mummy Blogger Trans Allies, they’re not so good at the whole neoliberal economic hegemonic structures so Labour are getting no real criticism from the Left over this madness because the vast majority don’t understand what is happening.

We all cheered when Adrian Orr began printing money, but we all thought it was so the Government could borrow at no cost to build the infrastructure and pay for the Covid costs, what is actually happening is this money is super heating speculation because Labour once again are trying to fix a failed market with more free market!!!

This is what they did with fucking KiwiBuild!

The insane reality is that this is speculative corporate welfare and the fucking last thing any Left winger with any intellectual conscience should be supporting!

What the fuck is going on?


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  1. How about the “50 NGOs” that wrote the “Letter to Jacinda” become an Alliance, an unofficial opposition and organising centre for the NZ working class?

    There are numerous class left takes on “NeoKindness” but ideas need to become a material force to make things actually happen.

    Demos, campaigns, community and direct action are needed now-to get Jacinda’s, Robbo’s, and all those Covid Capitalist’s attention.

    • Yep, its time for direct action. Labour has shown that even though they must realise there is a huge problem, they lack the will to do anything meaningful about it.

      I think we should occupy the park in front of parliament, maybe staying clear of the playground part so we don’t take it away from the kids. We have to get up there in their faces and make them realise they are not getting away with this shit.

  2. Follow the money……
    This looks & smells like subprime mortgages redux.
    Back then, Blackrock scooped up gazillions of defaulted on properties at fire sale prices.
    They became the US’s biggest landlord.
    Fast forward the the Great Reset, where Karl & cronies say we will never own anything & be happy.
    My take is our Government & Reserve Bank are facilitating our transition to permanent bliss.
    We should be looking for ways to express our gratitude.

  3. I hate to say this, but it is one hell of a bad start for Labour.

    It is mind-numbingly bad. The stated aim was to “get the economy going again’, to focus on the economy. That would mean getting money to people who would use it immediately, putting it back into their local economy. Instead, the money being released is immediately tied up in property or going to those wealthiest property speculators who, when they do spend it, often buy luxury items from overseas before they buy local, or they put it into the stock market. Some of the speculators are themselves of foreign origin and send the money offshore. In terms of getting the NZ economy back on track, where is there any sense in these moves?

    And the banks will be profiting. Most of them are foreign owned banks. Again, how does that help AO/ NZ?

    And one more question, the one no-one considers, what happens if the overinflated property speculation bubble bursts? The money is gone. Nothing at all to show for it, just a devastated and desperate population.

    How could they get this SO WRONG???

    • The early signs are not encouraging, I agree Kheala.
      In attempting to keep their newly acquired “I’m alright Jack” voters, Labour will lose their traditional voting base who will go looking for political entities that are committed to monetary and fiscal policies that allow them to ACTUALLY walk the talk.
      And top of that list at the moment would be Social Credit.
      And no, it doesn’t mean we automatically end up like Zimbabwe as the scaremongers like to hype up.

      Labour will be left behind fighting for the shrinking middle class ‘nice house and an SUV’ votes with National.
      In fact, if Labour are indeed not making any significant changes to policy settings and the Reserve Bank Act, those 2 political parties may as well merge at this point.
      Just call it the Bankers Party – Key could be leader alongside his Chairmanship with ANZ. After all, there would be no possible conflict of interest.

    • In such a collapse the mortgage may well be worth more than the house and unemployment will skyrocket.
      Time for struggling owners to walk away and find a car to sleep in.

      The Govt can either bail out the home owners or as the corrupt yanks did, bail out the banks.
      The first option works while the second option doesn’t.

  4. LOL. So cute you thought the money would be spent on things that matter. You don’t keep the middle if their house prices drop, their unsustainable jobs are lost and their favourite butcher and hairdresser are no more. We have to keep people acting like extras in the lego movie in hope of the fallacy of the “post covid-19 vaccine world”.

    This is a calculated political move by both Orr and Roberson (Cullen) to keep the economy on life support long enough for the great South Asian immigration ponzi scheme to start up again.

    But look on the bright side you might get the Mt Eden Train Station back in time for the 2029 election. Of course at that stage the medium house price will be $2.2m and ‘poverdy’ will be as worse as it ever has been.

    • Well what might be a solution then Frankus… or is taking glee in others misfortunes and mistaken expectations of NZ Labour enough for some?

      My suggestion is to organise, unite all who can be united–around increased benefits, rent control, speculator restrictions, public housing build, Living Wage etc.–gain wide support, and pressure the Govt. and employers to cough up. The NZ working class with its paid and unpaid work, powers this country, not neo rentiers and the parasites of Finance Capital.

      • You could start with a monetary policy and taxation system that doesn’t encourage property speculation (that includes the personal residence and bachs)…….wait, what…..

        Then you could look to get invest heavily in industries and technology that will create high wage employment.
        Then you could develop infrastructure so we could comfortably accomodate 7-8 million people. That’s our population in 10 years.
        Then you could look at ways of removing long term inter generational welfare dependency and poverty cycles.
        Then we could reinvest/redesign the education sector so it provides a solid base for vocational training/corresponds with our economic strategy. We create jobs and there are domestic candidates.

        Your arguments support a ‘give a man a fish’ strategy whereas we need to look at a ‘teach a man how to fish’ strategy. To summarise Over the last 40 years we haven’t done either. We’ve given our less well off half a rod and no bait, they haven’t caught anything so we’ve tossed them half a rotting fish head as a meal. This isn’t a blue or a red issue it’s a systemic approach layered in bureaucracy and retarded realpolitik of the middle.

  5. I read an article recently where Jacinda said quite directly that much of the RB money was going to be spent on Government infrastructure. I don;t see that this has been changed has it?
    At the same time as providing some new money to the banks for housing loans , the criteria for qualifying for loans has been raised . If there is bias in the new requirements to favour first home buyers, and not just raising the equity requirements, the extra money taken up this way could be quite minimal , or even it could result in less money being lent irrespective of it’s theoretical availability . If it turns out to be only a very small proportion of the RB money that is spent this way then the fuss might be about nothing.
    D J S

  6. Mr Robertson, If you can find the money to pay the foreign owned banksters, if you can find the money to pay the ultra wealthy property profiteers, then you can find the money to put food on the table for the poorest among us, and stop leeching off the voluntary services of so many. FIND THOSE FUNDS!!!

    End the grotesque two-tier system which creates a caste system of untouchables, those you have effectively deemed to be pariahs. AKA all beneficiaries other than those on the magically created top tier.

    Clearly, the money is there if you want it to be. Just find it.

  7. ZIRP (zero interest rate policy) inevitably leads to rampant inflation on asset prices (especially stocks and real estate). It’s obvious why: when you allow the borrowing of money for nothing it will find a home somewhere that offers a better than nothing yield (corporations love this, since they can buy their own stocks back with it that have a higher than zero dividend). This policy is everything but a “free market” (where interest rates are allowed to find their own balance) – these low rates are being manufactured by the government to supposedly provide economic “stimulus”. Well they do do that, I ‘spose, just not where you want it.
    The worst part of this is that we’re now in a “ZIRP Trap”, where any increase in rates will instantly collapse both the housing and stock markets, something that cannot be allowed to happen since it will bankrupt the banks and many corporations. So expect the government to double, triple, and quadruple down on ZIRP in the future to ensure that doesn’t happen.

    • The scale of debt issued is such that even a small increase in central bank interest rates would collapse the economy, and bankrupt many home-owners who would have negative equity in their house.

      It is a trap, and central bankers have slept-walked into it fo the past 20 years or more.

      • I doubt that bankers have slept- walked, it has well suited them to have armies of borrowers. However you have provided good justification for Labour discounting the Green’s attack on the usually hard-earned family home, and all the implications thereof.

        Negative equity is a separate issue. Given the current difficulties in obtaining any sort of place to call home, speculators and investors would be theoretically more likely to be bankrupted than others, which is what can happen when you take a punt.Their choice.

  8. Marx wouldnt be ‘happy’ about a basic law of capitalism that reproduces private profit. The reserve bank printing money would retain its value only if exchanged for value produced by labour power. That isnt happening because money is being invested in speculation buying existing values – houses, shares, blah blah.

    Marx was happy to explain this is what happens when profits fall and money is diverted into driving up their price (not their value). This leads to money inflation and stagnation until a crash devalues all these assets so that money is redirected back into production.

    Keynes discovered (by that time he was dead) that the state could not prevent this boom bust cycle because it is not independent of the ruling class (“organising committee”) and can only print money if it goes into their pockets and they will not invest it in production unless profitable.

    So the key to breaking this boom bust cycle is for workers to take control of production, replace the capitalist state with a workers’ state that plans production for need and not greed.

  9. Marx wouldnt be ‘happy’ about a basic law of capitalism that reproduces private profit. The reserve bank printing money would retain its value only if exchanged for value produced by labour power. That isnt happening because money is being invested in speculation buying existing values – houses, shares, blah blah.

    Marx was happy to explain this is what happens when profits fall and money is diverted into driving up their price (not their value). This leads to money inflation and stagnation until a crash devalues all these assets so that money is redirected back into production.

    Keynes discovered (by that time he was dead) that the state could not prevent this boom bust cycle because it is not independent of the ruling class (“organising committee”) and can only print money if it goes into their pockets and they will not invest it in production unless profitable.

    So the key to breaking this boom bust cycle is for workers to take control of production, replace the capitalist state with a workers’ state that plans production for need and not greed.

  10. From Chris Leitch leader of social credit:
    ” There is virtually no restriction on how much commercial banks can create other than having creditworthy borrowers to lend to, and of course they lend for things that are safest and most profitable – hence the housing market rather than business.

    The money supply is created out of thin air by those commercial banks when they make loans. (they don’t lend out money people have deposited with them) You can confirm this on the Bank of England website, the German Central Bank website. Our own Reserve Bank confirms this, as does an IMF report and numerous other impeccable sources.

    The Reserve Bank is creating $100 billion over the next 18 months to buy existing government bonds (IOU’s recording loans) on the secondary market. In other words buying bonds from banks, pension funds and wealthy investors who have previously lend money to the government.

    Meanwhile the government is selling bonds into the market, which are being purchased with the money from the bonds the Reserve Bank has just bought. The bond dealers (mainly banks) are ‘clipping the ticket’ at the taxpayers expense. Those government bonds are actually government debt on which taxpayers pay interest and they have to pay back the debt when the bonds mature.

    That money should be going into hospitals, schools, housing, and a multitude of other things the community needs, not generating profits for overseas bank shareholders.

    What the Reserve Bank should be doing is direct funding the government needs, not the needs of bond dealers. That way no government debt and no interest. ”


    Chris Leitch
    Social Credit

    • This is largely correct. When the government borrows money it spends it on infrastructure, civil service salaries and other expenses, and welfare. This, of course, is what the government is supposed to do. The money that is being poured into the housing market,though, is created within the banking sector. This seems sort of fraudulent but it is tolerated on the assumption that bank lending promotes production. Jacinda is right; it is not the government’s fault if the banks instead divert this created money into the property market.

      It is high time the government put a stop to the money creation within the private banking sector, and perhaps created a state owned bank that would have the sole right to create money.

  11. This is because this Labour government are a bunch of useless tossers with no idea of economics and numbers. A bunch of fucking incompetents.

    You can’t get by on a diet of platitudes and virtue signalling.

    Boosting the benefits would have been a good start, and now is politically a good time to do it with so many people, middle class included, are at risk of being tipped out of employment. A no brainer, out of both humanitarian considerations and political calculation.

  12. These experts want Government to ‘direct fund’ the economic rescue package from the Reserve Bank
    ” While the Reserve Bank is creating $100 billion in new money
    and putting it into the hands of rich investors, ( To pay of existing government bonds held by these investors )
    the government will be borrowing up to $200 billion by 2024. ( reserve bank issue or private interest bearing?)
    $5 billion every year of your taxes will be paying interest ( if borrowed privately)
    – providing big profits for those wealthy investors.
    We implore the government to access those funds direct from the Reserve Bank
    at no cost to taxpayers (as recommended by the experts above),
    rather than through private sector borrowing.
    Your taxes should go into hospitals, schools, poverty reduction,
    housing,and infrastructure where they belong. ”

  13. Okay then… The Prime Minister, telling the wind that housing “…just cannot keep increasing at the rate that is,” is about as helpful as a dog howling at thunder. It’s kind of like she has just woken to the fact that house prices have taken housing from beyond a full-blown crisis to full self destruct mode taking everyone who doesn’t have a house with it, including apathetic governments.

    Similarly saying “I want to look again at whether or not there is more we can do to overcome that big significant hurdle of that first deposit.” is equally as out of touch. Jesus wept woman, a shit box is now valued at a million dollars, with house price inflation totally rampant. How the fuck do you save for a deposit on a million dollars? Especially as next month, it will be 1.1 million? What say interest rates rise just a few percent, these highly leveraged homeowners are history, forever. This can easily happen!

    Wake the fuck up you morons. You not only look out of touch with what is one of the major issues facing this country, your musings confirm it. Twyford was useless but Woods has proven equally unproductive and hopeless.

    It is no good telling us it can’t get much worse, it’s no good saying tinkering with products like Home-Start will work, it’s no good telling us a re-write of the RMA will work, none of this shit will do anything.

    It is scary but this elephant in the room has been growing steadily since Labour promised us in opposition they cared but did sweet FA. You MUST do something radical. Pass laws to stop speculation, the majority will support it. Pass laws that mean only people who are citizens or residents in NZ who live here at least 2/3rds of the year can have any interest in a home, let alone own one and anyone else must surrender their holdings to market rates within the next 12 months of forfeit it to the state. Their indecision scares me because it shows Labour has not given this mess any thought whatsoever. They are going to piss about and waste more time and this matter will only get worse.

    Jacinda, you cannot escape this one by burying your head in the sand. You simply must do something and something meaningful. It will take you with it otherwise.

    I find myself for the first time 100% in agreement with James Shaw on this one. Labours inaction makes fiddling whilst Rome burns look like a full-on offensive!

    • It’s not that they didn’t give it thought, it’s that the average labour supporter (and MP) is comfortably upper middle class and owns property in Wellington/Auckland.
      They love the idea of taxing to somehow prevent climate change- so long as it’s the beastly farmers and not them who pay for their own artificial concrete city existence , gosh yes let’s solve povidy! But dear god don’t tax the Bach at Taupo or the investment property. Heresy!
      These people aren’t interested in fixing the problem, they are the problem.

      • KC Carry on – No need to knock town dwellers providing the essential services which keep keep everything chugging along – a rural retreat in Gentle Annie may be more removed from the day to day reality of post-modern living than you appreciate. And it takes greater social skills to live in proximity with other people than with picturesque trees.

        Please do not disparage the firefighters, and doctors and nurses, and linesmen, and sparkies and police persons and teachers and dentists and bus drivers as living artificial concrete existences: nothing is ever that simple.

        What Labour did, was to reject the Greens’ crude “millionaire” tax whack which could have made ordinary home owners subject to a tax without cash, when in fact the bach or investment property may have been a more appropriate target, and it is mischievous to suggest otherwise. It is the tax evaders with trusts and off-shore money arrangements which all governments should be gunning for, and won’t or can’t. The family home is sacrosanct, and protecting it was no heresy.

        Suggesting that the “average Labour supporter… is comfortably upper middle class”
        is a sweet sort of notion when coupled with Labour’s historical concern for social justice and the plight of the down-trodden. However I suggest that this too is fantasy on your part.

  14. What can the government actually do? It does not actually control the Reserve Bank.
    However, I suspect a lot of the lending by the commercial banks will be because they can generally borrow money at extremely low interest rates, and a lot of that money won’t be actually sourced in New Zealand. in short the RBNZ may not actually be the reason for the cheap credit. All credit anywhere in the world is cheap. And yes, that is boosting all sort of asset inflation. I know that this site goes on about the 1%, but all property owners and all Kiwisavers will be benefitting.
    Central banks will generally be quite happy about asset prices increasing. it giving confidence in western economies and therefore is generally boosting demand. That means more jobs and lower unemployment.
    Yes, you could foolishly crash property and assets prices. Then watch unemployment skyrocket. How many Daily Bloggers would be happy about that?

    • Yep, some sense at last. Cheap credit and housing inflation is NOT the biggest story in town at the moment … even though Adrian Orr when pressed in a RNZ interview admitted he was ‘personally’ concerned about increasing intergenerational inequity in the housing market. Who wouldn’t be … though a cynic would say his children don’t have to worry too much. He also said monetary policy is a ‘blunt tool’. Oh dear, a housing bubble as investors rush to the cheap credit and ordinary folk are shut out. But the RB has the bigger picture in sight. Let’s hope their tinkering is on the money! But as a few on TDB reiterate there are even a bigger things on the horizon.

    • Money borrowed overseas cannot be spent in NZ unless it can be converted to NZ currency. This conversion will always be possible as long as banks retain the right to create money. Deprived of this right, banks could bring money into the country only by using money borrowed from the general public on term deposit.

  15. There’s a house-shaped hole at the centre of New Zealand’s economic life, and a New Zealand First shaped-hole on the periphery of its politics.

    The house-shaped hole is the increasingly unaffordable house prices and rents that grow inequality, poverty and resentment. The New-Zealand-First-shaped hole creates a political space in which this resentment might grow a new populist party with destructive potential.

    For more than a quarter of a century New Zealand First has done what populists do everywhere. It has lauded “ordinary people”, denounced elites, and spoken against immigration. In practice, however, it has channelled the post-Fourth-Labour-Government populist maelstrom into relatively harmless tributaries. Should house and rental prices continue to rise, however, a populist replacement for New Zealand First may not be so harmless.

    I can hear the rhetoric in my head. A charismatic leader, three years hence, at a large and angry rally makes the following points. (I’ve just made up the 2023 numbers below.)

    “Labour’s had six years. Three with an absolute majority.

    “The average house price is now three hundred thousand dollars higher than when they were elected, and hundreds of thousands of us have no hope of owning a house. Not you. And certainly not your children. Never. Never. Never.

    “Average rent is up 30 per cent, and 400 thousand under-paid New Zealanders are now gifting more than half their hard-earned pay to the landlord. That’s food out of your children’s mouths and into the pockets of the property speculators, many of whom are not even real New Zealanders. Is that the New Zealand you want? Where more than half your pay goes to the Chinese or Indian landlord?

    “So let’s face reality. You had no house when Labour was elected. You have no house now. Those elites in Wellington don’t care about you. National never cared about you. Labour doesn’t care about you. They and their Green mates care more about trees and transsexuals than they do about you and your children. That’s why you were paying too much rent when they were elected, and why you’re paying even more now…”

    This onslaught might be followed by further attacks on immigrants, landlords and others… On and on… Because when the Left fails to deliver on bread and butter, but plays the identity card over and over, sooner or later the Right will play the identity card right back at them. And when the Right plays identity politics, it’s about “real New Zealanders” first, it’s racist and angry, and it ain’t pretty.

    Housing is of course just one point of vulnerability, but it’s probably the biggest target. Labour’s home-owning urban, liberal base is growing fat on house-price rises, and likes the Government’s focus on identity-politics issues of race, gender and sexuality. It’s poorer and provincial voters, not so much.

    If Labour fails to deliver on housing and other bread-and-butter concerns of the poor and provincial, it might well create space for a nasty, divisive and destructive New Zealand First replacement. Were this to happen, it is not hard to imagine frustrated, 2023 Labour politicians denouncing Labour defectors as a “basket of deplorables”, but they, like their Democrat cousins in America, would be criticising the work of their own hands.

  16. Why is a Labour Government borrowing billions for speculators???

    ….. because it is easier to have people make money in virtually the only way they can in NZ aka buy a house to live in and plan for retirement, than actually fix the economy so that people are paid enough wages to get ahead.

    If more people could rely on wages and working to get ahead in NZ that would be a game changer, but instead, government policy over the past decades in NZ are bringing wages and conditions down, by tolerating more ways to rip people off their labour and actually stopping people being considered employees by loop holes everywhere in NZ’s employment laws…. to the detriment of service levels and workers, aka Chorus workers are subcontractors and on below minimum wages in a job that was previously a middle class job paying middle of the road wages.

  17. I don’t know why people are expecting anything other than failure on all fronts from the Adern-led government. I suppose they have an emotional investment and want a different outcome from that about to be delivered by Jacinda.

    Truth is, Adern is way out of her depth and is clearly completely clueless when it comes to energy, the environment and FINANCE.

    In reality, she is simply the puppet the real owners of NZ allow to be public relations manager for the moment, someone who is smart enough to say the right things in the right way at the right time -all done with lots of affirmative smiles- and stupid enough to not question the instructions from above.

    Or maybe that should be smart enough to not question the instruction from above, since anyone who does question the instructions from above gets annihilated, e.g. Goff Whitlam, Jeremy Corbyn, Julian Assange….

    Jacinda is on a pretty wicket at the moment, with a huge salary and plenty of perks. It’s such a pretty wicket she’s prepared to sacrifice her own progeny’s future to ‘the machine’ -planetary meltdown, ocean acidification, loss of biodiversity, energy depletion etc. all being made worse by ‘the machine’.

    As you were; she is stupid enough not to question the instructions from above.

    The Machine Stops, of course, as E M Forster suggested about a century ago.

    ‘The story describes a world in which most of the human population has lost the ability to live on the surface of the Earth. Each individual now lives in isolation below ground in a standard room, with all bodily and spiritual needs met by the omnipotent, global Machine. Travel is permitted, but is unpopular and rarely necessary. Communication is made via a kind of instant messaging/video conferencing machine with which people conduct their only activity: the sharing of ideas and what passes for knowledge.’….

    ‘Finally, the Machine collapses, bringing ‘civilization’ down with it. Kuno comes to Vashti’s ruined room. Before they perish, they realise that humanity and its connection to the natural world are what truly matter, and that it will fall to the surface-dwellers who still exist to rebuild the human race and to prevent the mistake of the Machine from being repeated.’


    E M Forster obviously did not foresee that industrial humans would render entire the Earth uninhabitable and that the ‘surface-dwellers’ would also perish. But world population was only about 2 billion in his day, and the forces of industrialism were only just getting started on their epic campaign of destruction across the planet. So why would he?

    As for National, well, if we had Judith ( or any of her ilk) as the puppet of the powers that be, we would be sure of a faster ending to it all, with both social and environmental destruction put into hyper-drive, and the collapse of NZ society brought forward somewhat.

    ‘humanity and its connection to the natural world are what truly matter’

    • which to a certain extent is a good argument for having Crusher. at least we’d be put out of our misery the sooner.

    • AFKTT
      “world population was only about 2 billion in his day”

      Two billion was the tipping point.
      Beyond that is overshoot and would lead to chaos which we now have.

  18. There’s nothing wrong with rapid asset price inflation in an economy as long as there is strong progressive taxation (especially capital taxation) to balance it out.

    Unfortunately, New Zealand remains the sole OECD nation that only utilises one side of the equation.

  19. No more support partners to hide behind.
    Now we see all this time we have been voting for a right wing party pretending to be a left wing party.
    So glad I stopped voting Labour.
    Been trying to get assistance with my disability for years and every successive govt tells me some ‘plan’ they have but it doesnt change anything.
    Wrote to Carmel last term to be told I need to wait on their working group and then at the end it was a pile of shit, they’re no different to National

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