Ummm, should we be cutting the NZDF budget right now Grant?

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Top ministers order Defence Force spending cuts to help lift New Zealanders’ ‘wellbeing’

Top ministers have ordered a “deep dive” into the Defence Force’s spending in a bid to free up more funding to “lift the wellbeing of New Zealanders”.

Look, the NZDF are excellent at shooting civilians, burning their homes, handing them over to known torture units, gaining intelligence from torture and then hiding and lying about all those abuses of power, but should we be cutting the NZDF budget to ‘help lift New Zealander’s well being’ because as the apocalypse in Australia has proven, you need a military to help in the immediacy of a civil defence emergency.

As part of Fortress Aotearoa I support a dramatic increase in military spending, the reason for this is because the climate crisis requires a military level civil defence response.

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With the climate crisis here and rapidly unfolding ON TOP of an over due Alpine Fault earthquake, is the NZDF where we should start making cuts?

If Grant is short of a spare bob for well being, well he’s the one borrowing Billions for bloody roads.

Yes the NZDF has a lot of money, yes that existing budget should be redeployed into climate crisis type emergency responses, but should the budget be cut?

I would be arguing that we need MORE money going into the NZDF, not less.

Our military will be needed in the Pacific during worsening climate events, they will be needed at home to deal with those worsening climate events and they will be needed to protect our fisheries as climate change wipes out fishing stocks.

It’s not the responsibility of the NZDF to care about the well being of NZers, that’s the civilian Government’s responsibility, the NZDFs responsibility is protecting the national interest and seeing as Grant is spending billions on bloody roads, maybe he should be taking that budget knife to his own spending first?

Look, I’m no fan of the bloody military, but the climate crisis changes everything, and our military will rapidly become our first response to that crises. Amputating their ability to respond seems desperately short sighted.

17 COMMENTS

  1. No you don’t need more money in NZDF – they will use it to buy useless stuff like bombs! We have seen that their response to our crises are less than satisfactory and all they want to do is play war with the big boys. Their function has always been war – stop trying to turn them into a civil defense unit and start paying for a funded, managed CD response team. We need that way more than a standing army.

    • Well Jacinda has to be able to karate some big forces with the edge of her hand. Military Strategists like Australian Hugh White talks about arming Australia with nuclear weapons as a way of dealing with America’s decline and China’s rise.

      Our place in The South Pacific is not safe. As the Himalayan glaciers disappear The Great Chinese and Indian rivers that are fed by the Himalayans will dry up and China and Indian agriculture will not be able to support 2 billion people.

      What is happening is that just to feed 2 billion people it is freezing developments against Climate Change and once The Great Rivers are switched off then all of a sudden fishing vessels escorted by The Chinese Navy are raiding New Zealand’s Exclusive Economic Zone.

      The point is The United States of America at the top of the system, has induced this crises and doesn’t have a plan for this. America doesn’t understand what forces they’re letting loose and of course we need a New Zealand Defence Force for good.

      These great states, China and America are ridden with poverty and New Zealand has differentiate itself from Great powers which was inconceivable even 48hrs ago. So basically New Zealand is already on our own. America is pulling away from the rules based order as China seeks to renegotiate its place in the world and China is playing hard ball. Both the Labour and National Party have dual Chinese citizen MPs among them splashing a lot of cash so Jacinda has been grappling with these forces since defaulting her way into the job.

      • You’re hit the provably nail on the head Sam, our way of life is slowly changing for the worst and yet those of us on left who have some real life experience or following the current situation. Get shouted down by those on the left who are in complete denial at changing circumstances of our quiet little patch of the Sth Pacific with their head in the sand just like the CC denial RWJ with their head in the sand.

      • Agree that we have to be (very) wary of an increasingly expansionist and aggressive China – they have zero respect for human rights and our relatively unpopulated and isolated country is exactly what they are looking to acquire one way or another (hence certainly not a time to reduce defence spending and in fact we should be increasing it).

      • Exkiwiforce (Ret):

        Its classic sea blindness really as you will well know (I got that from an old salt). One of the advantages and disadvantages of New Zealand’s defence posture is its position 2000kms from the nearest neighbouring land mass. The Sth. Pacific was notoriously difficult to get to which means there’s only two methods of getting to New Zealand which makes it relatively easy to defend and grow and develop with out being harassed by major powers.

        Given New Zealand’s population is relatively few in number and lack of ambition vs had kiwis been located in other parts of the world that was experiencing unrest they would have likely lost there independence. This doesn’t mean New Zealand was completely unchallenged there was of course colonization but post colonial New Zealand also suffers from the same mentalities that limited the size of colonial forces which means that NZDF can not be allowed to grow emaciated as to no longer be able to handle the defence of the realm against a nuclear super power (You never know who’s listening so I won’t go into any great detail about how a defence might be mounted).

        A people’s history and hardship or lack of hardship shapes there culture. New Zealands native inhabitants was firstly survivors, there technology was ocean oriented and had to adapt to land dwelling, and isolation means NZDF has to be disciplined, cautious and well organized to survive. For everyone else this means NZDF must be extremely cold, reasoned, and well organized to survive. Thus people like Exkiwiforce must use reason over superstition.

        According to the New Zealand Armies Future Land Operation Concept, NZDF must be extremely smart and efficient tactical fighters that rely on good defences and counter attack rather than brute force and power.

        As a brilliant man once said NZDF must be approached from positions of strength and respect. One must have strength because NZDF will only deal with people capable of keeping there promise, and one must have respect because The Chief of New Zealand’s Defence Force must believe that those promises will be kept.

        NZDF personal, like the All Blacks (Graham Heart ex Coach literally ripped this off the SAS in 96) are trained to believe that it is not the person holding the position (Jersey) that is important rather it is the position (Jersey) itself (if the All Blacks are truly that good, just imagine how excellent NZSAS truly are). And further more individuals must allow themselves to subsume into the roles society allows them to play. If you ask for an NZDF personal member by name they will on principle not talk to you. If you ask for them by rank how ever they would not hesitate.

    • Did you support the NZDF Peacekeeping and INTERFET operations in Timor-Leste? Or do you support China’s encroachment into the Sth Pacific or the in Antarctic because they are a peace loving nation and won’t hurt a Fly?

      NZDF atm has too few medium or no heavy a fixed wing airlifters, too few medium rotary wing airlifters, the NZDF reserves are a mere shell of what it use to prior to the 90’s, the Navy’s only sealift vessel is barely fit for purpose for operations around NZ waters and no thanks to the Labour left and the Greens under Keith Locke who lobby hard to make sure that the NZDF didn’t get proper Landing Ship to operate safely in NZ waters, and finally the two in service OPV’s are longer fit for purpose to operate in the Southern Ocean due to weight, CC issues.

      The OPV’s, the Landing Support Ship and the NH90’s were purchased under the last Labour Government/ Greens Coalition and due to their penny pincher, Anti Defence funding and short term B.S view of Defence we are in this position of having major short fall in capability.

      I won’t even start on the “No Mates Party” attitude to the NZDF etc given their track record since the 90’s which was cut, defer, or do the bare minimum to NZDF etc, we are now paying for across every Government dept including Defence.

      I am no friend, mate or fan of any right Neo Lib/ Neo Con Party or Government and I still remember the 90’s as clear day.

      The Greens would be my preferred party, but with Keith Locke including his parents are bunch of assholes, their Defence and Foreign Policy doesn’t reflect what I’ve experienced on the ground as a Peacekeeper either with the Blue Beret of the UN or operations like INTERFET in East Timor in 99.

  2. Agree 100%, and thank you for saying this. It is so self-evident that one wonders where Grant Robertson is getting his advice from- that’s assuming this is all his fault – and whether there’s another agenda, and if so, what is it.

  3. 199% behind you there Martyn.
    Quote; “As part of Fortress Aotearoa I support a dramatic increase in military spending, the reason for this is because the climate crisis requires a military level civil defence response.”

    Every country globally has some form of a military backup for any civil disaster.

    We know that we are facing considerable levels of them fgoing forwards now as a result of climate change.

    ‘Common sense policy.’

  4. We need domestic forces no doubt, for humanitarian or emergency situations, but NZ Is just wasting money on anything else (e.g. defensive or offensive hardware). NZDF firstly need to clean up their unexploded ordnance at former firing ranges in the Middle East. This is to stop kids playing around their homes and people walking on their land from getting blown to bits by our weaponry. This needs priority now instead of this campaign of training local soldiers and the bros driving around the deserts in armoured vehicles acting cool.
    We then need to pull out of this phony war and occupation of these foreign countries who have never harmed NZ (we as in the general public whom this military supposedly represents). Recently Western forces have been asked to leave Iraq, and the Middle East has a right to autonomy and sovereignty without the West offering to club some democracy into them (which is actually a ruse to steal their resources). As we have seen for decades, the US-led coalition cannot be trusted to serve, protect and liberate these communities (documents show for instance the US didn’t have a plan for Afghanistan, there were no WMDs in Iraq, and rebuilding infrastructure and services is non-existent), in fact the opposite has mostly happened; internal strife and terrorism has remained or grown through Western military occupation, the people of the region harbour deep mistrust of Western forces, and now diplomats as well as military of any country in the region (possibly the world) are subject to extrajudicial murder by drone. I just got done reading the case of Gul Mudin, a 15 year old Afghan boy working the fields of his local village who one day in 2010 he was murdered by bored American soldiers looking for a thrill kill. Whether an innocent boy minding his business coming face to face with sociopath foreigners, or 30 pine nut farmers returning from a hard day’s work reduced to bits of meat and bone by a faceless drone pilot thousands of miles away, New Zealand should have nothing to do with this, not only cutting and running but be forever sorry to the people of this region for any physical, mental, economic, environmental and cultural harm. We are better than this.
    So finally we as a country should provide an apology and deepest sympathy to these peoples for any wrongdoing, then facilitate economic compensation and future trade, technological assistance and expertise to our fellow humans (without this chest-beating military façade of freedom and liberation which disguise the weapons sales, fossil fuel appropriation and share market-driven imperialism).

  5. The NZH had the following information in an article about defence spending (19 January, 5 pm)
    But a spokesperson for the Finance Minister said there is no plan to cut defence funding.
    “Any low value spending would be reprioritised into other areas of the defence budget that supports wellbeing objectives, such as disaster relief and support.”
    I am no expert on defence but are happier with the current government in charge compared to the previous fruitloops.

  6. The NZH had the following information in an article about defence spending (19 January, 5 pm)
    But a spokesperson for the Finance Minister said there is no plan to cut defence funding.
    “Any low value spending would be reprioritised into other areas of the defence budget that supports wellbeing objectives, such as disaster relief and support.”
    I am no expert on defence but are happier with the current government in charge compared to the previous fruitloops.

  7. Well when have we ever had ” common sense policy ”

    This so called money he is freeing up for ” wellbeing ” better be put too very good use because the coming emergencies are not far away and we need a fully funded Air force and a large Navy capable of patrolling our territorial waters and coast and being on hand when our pacific neighbours are drowning as their islands sink beneath the sea.
    These climate refugees will have to be re settled and face the fact that they will never return too their countries.
    Who will end up with the responsibility of providing a home too the peoples of the pacific and how will that be paid for are all issues that we will need too address very soon.
    The fact that they are not looking seriously at bolstering our armed services for the coming armageddon is a fatal mistake and proof once again that the neo liberals still don’t acknowledge the planet is on a one way trip too hell and despite the massive need out there for support it will mean nothing when we are grappling with the coming destruction without a fully funded defence force.

  8. NZ defence forces should be just that, for the defence of this land. WTF are we doing in the middle east and elsewhere on the planet fighting other peoples wars (h/t Nicki Hagar) let alone owning farkin frigates, which have the sole purpose of carrier support. We spend int he order of $3billion per annum on warfare, just to belong to the club (capt amerika).
    NZ defence should be 100% on shore with missiles for any vessels we dont want (missile tech has made carriers and the like large floating targets) Train the locals and give them the goods to protect themselves with a fully integrated core of full time military, make it a national past time….

    • Well you forgot that two of the TNI German built U Boats sailed into Timor-Leste’s waters during INTERFET which put the willies up everyone at the time and unit was nearly spilt up again and move up to Bacau Airfield as that was Airfield that could the P3’s and the Kiwi RNZAF’s A4’s if they were required for Close Air Support Ops. Anyway we had one of the best ASW Frigates ever built as the Dili guard ship, called a Type 12 Leander Class Frigate from NZ called F421 aka the Canterbury which spent a few day to a week from memory tracking, and finally conducted a passive attack on them using active sonar when they trap them in one the many under sea tenches off Dili.
      That my old mucker was a Chap 6& half UN sponsored Peacekeeping mission.

      Frigates are also very good for convoy work and NZ being an export led national where over 90% of exports and imports go by sea. The best way to sink a ship is via submarine and Frigates are very handy at ASW which is not as sexy as escorting say a Carrier or surface battle group, and or the fleet train.

  9. perhaps adjusting our defence spend…more in engineering, monitoring, and quick capabillity relief forces.. We cannot outgun the rest of the world.. but we can be boots on ground to help.. and our military could perhaps be involved in training tradies to know their bloody trades.. instead of leaving it to the ‘free’ market..

    • About a third of NZDF personal are infantry and other frontline staff. The other 2/3rds are support like cooks, drivers, storemen, engineers, medical, sappers ect. It’s like that because contrary to the PR spin NZDF is a brutal organisation. They’re for fighting wars and we shouldn’t get that twisted with fighting climate change even though they have to be reorganised to combat Climate induced Nuclear war.

      The top 3 threats facing humanity today, Climate Change, Nuclear war and Extinction. For this we will need an Army, Navy and Airforce.

      For civil reconstruction and closing the infrastructure gap abroad we can use the rest of the economy but we still have to put a bit of performance away into the NZDF for when ever performance drops for what ever reason.

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