How dare Jacinda Ardern comment on Oranga Tamariki baby trafficking without even bothering to watch the footage

1. Time for a lowball baby buyback!
   It would say so much-2nd hand prices for second class citizens from a second class government.

2. Gee another baby dead over the weekend from head injuries. Some parents deserve to have there children taken from them

   • Exactly!

     • taken by who not cyfs they abuse them too

       • Michelle: “…not cyfs they abuse them too”

         CYFS no longer exists. Yes, there is, we are told, a continuing problem with abuse by foster carers of children in care. But it isn’t the case that only Maori children are abused and only by non-Maori carers. That would be far too one-dimensional a picture.

         Bear in mind that many carers are Maori: the family or extended family of the children taken into care. The move to recruit Maori family and extended family began in the late 1980s. Unfortunately, that didn’t stop the abuse of Maori children in care. Those of us who paid attention to news reports in the 1990s well remember the sad trail of cases which came before the courts.

   • …and some don’t.
     And most parents deserve to be told that their child is to be taken away, to be told why, given a chance to plead their case, and supported to keep that child under guidance and care.

     And all children deserve a better life than some of them get under ‘care’.

     • Exactly Siobhan – thank you. Of course there will always be babies who are unsafe with their parents but even then there should be a proper procedure. Obviously Kerry Sams and Kyle Webster have relied on the typically slanted media report about previous children being removed from them mother but who are they to judge?

       However, I do not want to give them any oxygen. You are so right when you say that some parents don’t (deserve to have their children taken from them) without first pleading their case. I heard a representative from OT being interviewed on the radio this morning and she was very aggressive and defensive. No wonder OT has an appalling reputation and in my view it is because of not only what they do and how they do it but their attitude as well.

   • @ KYLE…?
     ‘Deserve!?
     “Some parents deserve to have their children taken from them…”

     What? Like when once they’re rendered inhuman by the tyranny of neoliberalism after it’s had its way with them, you mean?
     Deserving to have their kids taken away once a perverse and psychopathic little arsehole-collection plaything like Oranga Tamariki’s had its way with them also?
     AO/NZ parents, in actual fact, DESERVE to live in dignity, comfort and security knowing that they’re never alone and that a secure future is entirely visible to those same young persons who’ve just had a wee beastie or two. Any and all AO/NZ parent should, without exception, be able to see well into a comfortable future while holding their babies without fear or anxiety. This is the 21st Century in a rich land with a tiny population after all for fucks sake!
     In AO/NZ, however, we have an insatiably greedy criminal elite who’ve fucked us without the kissing and they don’t care at all about who deserves what so long as they get their Ponsonby Hut and a big black cock-extender bi-turbo v8 curb crawler 2000 to carry their ego’s about in.
     I think you may be a good, yet sad example, of the dangers of when the terminally stupid turn on the societally disfigured.
     But wait ! ? There’s more!
     When those wee babies become adults? They’re statistically going to be mean, nasty and dangerous. And they will have babies who will be mean, nasty and dangerous.
     It’s up to todays intelligent and rational to rescue tomorrows human beings from the Oranga Tamariki-esque cluster fuck.

     • Very well put CB. could not agree more.

3. Is the Melanie Reid produced video a complete and balanced portrayal of what went on?
   Or is it one person’s edited version to get a campaign going?

   I don’t know. But it’s clearly not a complete account.

   So why should the PM take it as such?

   • While the 45 minute clip was an edited version of what took place. The reason the PM should have viewed the clip was 1, so she could precisely comment on what everybody else has viewed. And 2, to help build her own overview of the complete account.

     The fact she didn’t view the clip has now become a negative headline in itself. One that could and should have been avoided by her simply taking the short time to view it. The fact she didn’t even see that (what the perception of not viewing it portrays) coming shows how out of touch she really is. It also highlights she needs better advisors.

     • Well if both Jacinda and Tracy Martin watch it they’ll realize straight away that the information the ministry has been feeding the minister in charge is complete bullshit.

   • Ada: “Or is it one person’s edited version to get a campaign going?”

     Whether or not Reid had an axe to grind, without doubt the video was edited, so a version only of the story. Of necessity, much of what was filmed or recorded wasn’t used.

     So: we the viewers don’t know all the facts. Neither would the PM or Tracey Martin have been better-informed for having watched it.

     Were I advising the PM, I’d have advised her against watching it. I saw it; it was distressing. And it wouldn’t in my view be useful background material for politicians having to make decisions about the future of OT.

4. I do not believe that Jacinda Ardern has not watched the video of the Oranga Tamariki Baby Grabbing Attempt, she would be the only NZ mother who has not bothered to watch her State employees lying and threatening a young mother as they try to steal her baby.

   Well-being Government – I THINK NOT.

5. https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018702078/new-obligations-for-oranga-tamariki

6. “If John Key or Simon Bridges were PM and the Oranga Tamariki footage had come out and they had admitted to not watching it, there would be riots.”
   I disagree… Two points.. One. This would never have come out while a National party ruling cabal was in power.. no ifs, no buts, no maybe…. Two, on what planet would this have resulted in anything but a witch hunt to drive the maker of said video either out of the country, or as deep under a large rock as they could get?

   There’s actually a third point, but It is more a byproduct of the above behavior of both the authoritarian politicians, and their army of trained pundits infesting the “fourth estate”… By that I bring up the general timidity with which the “proletariat” had been beaten into adopting toward even the most blatant abuses committed by the descendants of our colonial usurpers….. Now that we have a little breathing room, maybe it’s time to figure out how to reset that doesn’t have us disappearing up our own nether world?

   WE know that there are still far too many neo liberal traitors within the Labour Party, and in government… We know that to cleanse the party, and reset towards the settings that created a NZ that could take it’s place in the first world, will be fought against by our own “fourth estate” with every trick they know… With this in mind, do we now do a “Neville Chamberlain”?
   Do we let ourselves get drunk on being able to be critical of our leadership without the threats and retaliation, and therefore play into the hands of those pundits?
   The facts, timelines, and the names of the perpetrators, from the top down needs to be widely spread around the rank and file, in the factories, hospitals, schools, workshops, building sites, warehouses, supermarkets, and everywhere that the “common people gather… The discussion needs to be comprehensive, and relentless… The grassroots have not had the opportunities to effect change like they have now for almost a lifetime, it seems sometimes….

   Whoever said that democracy can’t be driven by “the people”?

   • “If John Key or Simon Bridges were PM and the Oranga Tamariki footage had come out and they had admitted to not watching it, there would be riots.” I don’t recall any riots when Bill English made it clear that he hadn’t read, ‘Hit&Run’, about massacre and carnage by the SIS in Afghanistan, and went to Auckland to enjoy himself at an Adele concert, while we who had read it were sitting numb with shock.

     Had Melanie Reid’s report come out when either of these two were in power, Reid could have lost her job, just like John Campbell lost his. Others in the fourth estate who criticised the status quo under Key found themselves surplus to requirements, or publicly maligned – Mike Joy being a good example as he had the honour of being trashed on that bastion of public broadcasting, the BBC, by a PM with a fetish for pulling the hair of powerless workers for heaven’s sake, and whose concern for the public realm was prioritised by restoring the royal honours, and getting
     a nice new flag. Wow, what a man.

     Wow, how his deeds displayed his shallow veneer. Wow, the heart-tugging empathy of English saying that he knew what was like to be different because he had teenage acne, and wow how these two moral midgets rose above the adversities of their youth to become leaders of the country, and dedicated to a few of its people.

     The thing is, our leaders have minions to watch film clips and read books for them, and to protect them from having to carry disturbing things around in their heads.

     Were I a lying politician I would say that I hadn’t seen Melanie Reid’s film clip even if I had, just to keep myself off the hook, and to not have to give answers – easy when the new political plumb-line is the junior staff member now blamed for so much.

     The other scenario would be a politician – any politician – saying how outraged they are that our beautiful children are starting their little lives with so much stacked against them.

     Oranga Tamariki is not responsible for the fact that we now have a huge deprived underclass in NZ, successive govts are, and they know it.

     • Thank you for filling in the gaps i left in the hope that the issue could be added to…. The actions taken against Andrew Little’s cavalcade informs this issue perfectly… To my mind, NZers are wasting far too much time, and energy arguing over side issues, and allowing the enemies of society open slather to plunder, and steal from the legacy of The first Labour Party Government… The Murdoch, and colonial owned “news media” has to be made to look as irrelevant as they really are, and how duplicious they are in telling us to welcome the usurpers, and invite them to help themselves to even more of our birthrights…

7. The Minister responsible for Oranga Tamariki (Tracey Martin) also admitted she hasn’t viewed the recent uplift video.

   • For the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Minister for Children Tracey Martin to disclose that they have not watched the Oranga Tamariki video that has now brought 3 Inquiries to check on Oranga Tamariki shows a complete lack of responsibility of their roles in government.

     There are non so blind as those who do not want to see. Shame on them both.

8. Based on the opinions here i can see none of you have had any dealings with cyfs. I am calling for Tracey Martins head to roll she needs to go after watching that shocking interview on Sunday. I don’t think she is suitable for this role. Her remarks about a recent death to justify cyfs actions is in poor tastes and only makes people get their backs up. In my view Martin lacked humility she had her back up and the fact she hasn’t bothered to watch the video sends a bad message. The message is ‘we still know best ‘and we have absolute faith in our organisation and our staff to deliver when from 2008 the number of Maori babies being taken under the national government increased and the cyfs graph i saw shows a spiral this was in the 9 yrs we were waiting for our brighter future. I would like to know how 7aa is going to be monitored and by whom. I would also like to know why cyfs regional managers continue to employ poms and indians who are not culturally appropriate and given they know 7aa is about accountability these regional managers are showing they actually don’t care about our people they are brazen. And i would also like to know how many of these people got their jobs/roles when they don’t have many of the core competencies outlined in the 7aa document. Its almost like they have an attitude of ‘any one will do its only Maori’ We are a very proud people we have nothing to lose now we have had our dignity taken from us by the state. If they want us to fix the mess they have created give us back our billion dollar economic base and we will look after ourselves as we did in the 1860s before the land wars and before our land was confiscated by the pen.

   • Michelle, perhaps the best way of getting answers to your questions, would be to write and ask the relevant ministers. It can usually be worked as an OIA request.

     And MP’s (Saturday) clinics are very good. I’ve been to a few and organised others going; some, but not all, require appointments. The MP’s are always pleasant and receptive – they are not going to be otherwise eg in a caravan with a queue lined up outside, or you covertly filming them. You don’t have to just go to your own local MP either, you can do the lot of them if you’ve got the time.

     Writing with specific questions to the CE of eg Oranga Tamarki can also be v useful, as they are careful with written answers.

     I’m not too fussed about who did or didn’t view Reid’s video, the crucial thing is that the public are now aware of the issues – I think Tracey Martin among the better of our MP’s, but I watch little TV – and interviewers’ questions are often self-serving.

9. Based on the opinions here i can see none of you have had any dealings with cyfs. I am calling for Tracey Martins head to roll she needs to go after watching that shocking interview on Sunday. I don’t think she is suitable for this role. Her remarks about a recent death to justify cyfs actions is in poor tastes and only makes people get their backs up. In my view Martin lacked humility she had her back up and the fact she hasn’t bothered to watch the video sends a bad message. The message is ‘we still know best ‘and we have absolute faith in our organisation and our staff to deliver when from 2008 the number of Maori babies being taken under the national government increased and the cyfs graph i saw shows a spiral this was in the 9 yrs we were waiting for our brighter future. I would like to know how 7aa is going to be monitored and by whom. I would also like to know why cyfs regional managers continue to employ poms and indians who are not culturally appropriate and given they know 7aa is about accountability these regional managers are showing they actually don’t care about our people they are brazen. And i would also like to know how many of these people got their jobs/roles when they don’t have many of the core competencies outlined in the 7aa document. Its almost like they have an attitude of ‘any one will do its only Maori’ We are a very proud people we have nothing to lose now we have had our dignity taken from us by the state. If they want us to fix the mess they have created give us back our billion dollar economic base and we will look after ourselves as we did in the 1860s before the land wars and before our land was confiscated by the pen.

10. It’s hard to comment on these cases as you don’t have the facts.

    However we do have some facts,

    Sroubek was allowed residency to claim health, welfare and super and Kiwi status here based on apparently a very flawed synopsis given to Iain Lees-Galloway who failed to interpret it property and spent less than an hour bothering to read it.

    Gabriel Makhlouf who rather than admit a mistake created the treasury hack to disguise treasury incompetence and against the police and GCSB advice.

    MPI who managed to import in PSA virus and take out the local Kiwifruit industry for years.

    Operation burnham which has lied and people are now dead because of a lack of accountability in the defence and the ability to have more budget and do everything in secrecy than the taskforce who are supposed to be finding out the truth.

    It is about time the government ministers make the NZ government workers who write these reports more accountable and transparent and also work out the possibility that they seem to be full of errors by ministry workers who are not accountable and often fail to reveal the facts in fact do the opposite and lie and mislead about them!

11. actually when i think cyfs d estere i think ‘syphilis’ a disease and that is what many govt agencies are a social disease on our people who are suppose to help but instead have hindered in many cases.

12. actually when i think cyfs d estere i think ‘syphilis’ a disease and that is what many govt agencies are a social disease on our people who are suppose to help but instead have hindered in many cases.

    • Michelle: “actually when i think cyfs d estere i think ‘syphilis’ a disease and that is what many govt agencies are a social disease on our people….”

      Again: it is Oranga Tamariki. Whether or not you like the name, that’s what it is. CYFS ceased to exist in 2017; OT’s modus operandi is different. This is the document which provides the background:

      //www.orangatamariki.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/white-paper-for-vulnerable-children-volume-1.pdf

      The problem with OT – and with all of its previous incarnations – isn’t the design of services, or with the competence (cultural or otherwise) of its social workers. The problem is that it must protect children from harm at the hands of adults who are seriously inadequate at best, bloody awful at worst. That is its only job; this may offend some people, who evidently labour under delusions that children are being taken by OT out of caprice. That isn’t so; it removes children who are at risk of serious harm or death. It doesn’t matter a damn what the rest of us thinks. And more power to it, say I. See this:

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/113731528/open-letter-oranga-tamariki-social-workers-in-terrible-almost-untenable-position

13. you know cyfs aren’t the only government department that does low down practises like this have a look at the justice, corrections , WINZ, HNZ, ACC all our Ministers need to have a good look with eyes wide open please.

14. The new government hasn’t legislated to stop us from calling a badly performing unsavoury govt department out. Nor does changing a name fix all the distrust when you burn bridges it takes time to mend the bridges and when we see our Minister bad mouthing our people doing good work in our Maori communities it is very disheartening.

    • Michelle: “Nor does changing a name fix all the distrust when you burn bridges it takes time to mend the bridges….”

      The name change signified a change of approach. We’re seeing more of that now, with the publication of the abuse statistics in all their ugliness. No chance of change without honesty and acknowledgement of what’s gone wrong.The tricky bit is fixing what’s wrong; it is to be hoped that OT has developed strategies which will be efficaceous. That remains to be seen, I guess.

      Though it’s worth pointing out that child protection services have been underfunded for at least the last 30 years. That hasn’t helped. If the current government is serious about doing things better for the abused and neglected innocents, it will not overtax OT with unachievable objectives and tasks which are, strictly speaking, outside of its bailiwick. And it will increase funding.

15. The new government hasn’t legislated to stop us from calling a badly performing unsavoury govt department out. Nor does changing a name fix all the distrust when you burn bridges it takes time to mend the bridges and when we see our Minister bad mouthing our people doing good work in our Maori communities it is very disheartening. who has egg on their face ?

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