The Blame Game Continues

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THE RUINS of the Twin Towers were still smoking; people the world over still reeling in shock; and, already, conspiracy theorists were blaming the Jews. The whole 9/11 operation could not possibly be the work of Al Qaida, these conspiracists argued. Bin Laden’s operation simply wasn’t equipped to execute an attack of such extraordinary complexity and lethality. Only Mossad could do that. It just had to be the Israelis.

Why would the Israelis attack the financial capital of their staunchest supporter, the United States of America? How could their involvement in such a colossal crime possibly be kept secret? And, when Israel’s culpability was eventually exposed, and the United States, in righteous wrath, had declared its long-term friendship with the Israeli state to be at an end, what would the perpetrators have gained?

Alas, conspiracists do not trouble themselves with such questions. Great tragedies require great causes. Anything less is an insult to their victims.

That a slipshod operation, which should have been detected and shut down long before any young jihadi ever set foot on an American airliner, somehow managed to succeed, could not be the fault of a US national security apparatus riven with inter-agency rivalries and absurd partisan prejudices. That would be too awful – and too simple – an explanation. There had to be something darker, deeper, and more fiendish at work on 9/11 than straightforward bureaucratic incompetence. And what could be darker, deeper, or more fiendish, than the International Jewish Conspiracy?

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

Fast-forward to Friday, 15 March 2019, at the Al Noor and Linwood mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand. Fifty Muslim worshippers are shot to death as they pray.

Within half-an-hour, the Police have intercepted and arrested a 28-year-old Australian white supremacist. The following day he is charged with murder and remanded to New Zealand’s most fearsome maximum-security prison at Paremoremo.

A shocked and shaken nation pours out its grief and support for New Zealand’s Muslim community. The New Zealand Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, wins international praise for her empathy and dignity. She moves swiftly to outlaw military-style semi-automatic firearms and announces the setting up of a Royal Commission of Inquiry into all aspects of the tragedy.

End of story? Sadly, no.

Even before the bodies of the victims of the Christchurch Mosque Shootings had been laid to rest, a steady drumbeat of anxiety and doubt about the official version of events began thumping away in the shadows.

Was it at all plausible that the Christchurch Shooter acted entirely alone? Is it possible that such a man could hide in plain sight – drawing absolutely no attention to himself for more than two years? How was he able to afford the extensive foreign travel he is known to have undertaken? The guy had no job – so who paid his rent? Could someone without extensive training in terrorist techniques have planned and executed so large and lethal an operation? If not, then who trained him and guided him under the authorities’ radar? Were the 15/3 attacks really a “lone-wolf” operation – or did the Christchurch Shooter have help?

All of these are fair and reasonable questions, and the Royal Commission of Inquiry will undoubtedly spare no effort in answering them.

Unfortunately, the opening of the Royal Commission’s proceedings is months away, and those most deeply wounded by the Christchurch Mosque Shootings are looking for answers now. More importantly, they are looking for a villain who is larger and more impressive than the individual being kept in solitary confinement at Paremoremo.

Who hates the Muslim world enough to slaughter 50 innocent men, women and children? Who has “form”?

On Sunday, 24 March 2019, at a “Love Aotearoa. Hate Racism” demonstration of around one thousand Aucklanders in Aotea Square, at least two people decided to answer those questions.

According to Newshub reporter Scott Palmer:

[A Mt Roskill resident] gave a speech questioning where the gunman got his funding from. He said he suspected it came from ‘Mossad’ and ‘Zionist business’.”

His words were recorded by Apna Television:

“I really want to say one thing today. Do you think this guy was alone … I want to ask you – where did he get the funding from?

“I stand here and I say I have a very, very strong suspicion that there’s some group behind him and I am not afraid to say I feel Mossad is behind this.”

Newshub noted that:

One person can be heard shouting in support: “It’s the truth. Israel is behind this. That’s right!”

If he could have heard these words. If he could have followed the hurt and outrage of New Zealand’s Jewish community on Twitter. If he could have detected the first hairline cracks in the splendid edifice of unity and compassion constructed by Prime Minister Ardern and her fellow New Zealanders. Then, it is difficult to imagine the Christchurch Shooter responding in any other way than with a broad, lone-wolfish grin.

 

52 COMMENTS

  1. Yeah so rather than the country as a whole taking a couple of weeks or so to mourn the victims our authoritarian government decides to carry out the bidding of the terrorist by further punishing the innocent and further dividing us.

    I’m feeling a social credit system is almost upon us.

  2. Why do you equate Jews with Mossad? It’s like saying the SIS shot someone so let’s blame New Zealanders? There is a difference. Does anyone blame the American people for the deeds of the CIA? I’ve never heard it put like that, have you?

    • Perhaps you read the post carefully and properly, then you will find that Chris did nothing of that sorts.

      • I mean there isn’t much to add any more accept a quiet nod of a pro all and a well done. TDB content is just head and shoulders above the rest.

  3. Stop making it worse than it is. Mossad doesn’t equate with JEWs, Just as (the Useless) SIS doesn’t equate with New Zealanders.

    • “Mossad doesn’t equate with JEWs”

      Realistically, yes it does, for the same reason Israel does. Israel is the Jewish state, Mossad it’s national intelligence agency, and most non-Israeli Jews support Israel to various degrees. While it is certainly correct to separate Jews in general from Israel, this is not always the case in some people’s minds. That is particularly true of some strains of Muslim thinking, and ironically, with far-right thinking. As with the controversy recently with regards to Ilhan Omar, critics of Israel must be careful to not frame their critiques in ways that parallel historic anti-Jewish conspiracy theories, or to do so in a way that implicates Jews in general, just as legitimate criticisms of Islam or radical Islamism must be careful not to implicate Muslims in general as complicit.

      While what this man said did not specify Jews in general in it’s wording, nevertheless the accusation of a conspiracy, especially as he said “Zionist businesses” which again equates in some peoples thinking with Jewish businesses, was recklessly dangerous, at this time particularly.

      • Thats just ridiculus and you are trying to use the same argumemts that are used to paint Corbyn as anti semitic. Zionism is an ideology and very able to be critiqued as such. Jews are a people. Only some Jews hold zionist views which is a political orientation just as some Nzers hold neoconservative views. Critiquing a political ideology is not anti semitism. Chris is attempting to shut down all analysis of the Chch shooting by implying that all such analysis is anti semitic just as he implied that all analysis of 9/11 was antisemitic. Luckily we do get the Royal Commision and the chance to get at some degree of truth. There will always be fringe elements with strange stories but that doesnt mean that all alternative stories are wrong. Thats just the old trick of dragging out the conspiracy theory label to discredit everybody. I thought Chris might think a little deeper than that.

        • “Thats just ridiculus and you are trying to use the same argumemts that are used to paint Corbyn as anti semitic.”

          He has brought that on himself by taking half measures at best to root it out of the party, not to mention some really bad decisions, such as laying a wreath at the graves of Palestinian terrorists. The British Labour party really does have a problem with regards to anti-Semitism. Corbyn may not be an anti-Semite, but he has failed spectacularly to convince British Jews in that regard, and that’s his own fault.

          ” Zionism is an ideology and very able to be critiqued as such. Jews are a people.”

          I’m not saying Zionism cannot be critiqued, I am saying that how it is critiqued is important. Critics must take care not to slide into historic anti-Jewish tropes, and some are not cautious in that regard, just as in critiquing radical Islamism and Islamist terrorism, some people have not been careful to distinguish that from mainstream Islam and Muslim migrants.

          • You can go with that line if you like Shawn but I’ll take Corbyns word before yours as he is one of a very few honest politicians in the world. I also go along with respected and award winning journalist Jonathon Cook who likewise is one of a few trustworthy journalists in his many analysis of the anti semitism smokescreen to remive Corbyn. Corbyn rightly stands firmly beside Palestinians. To quote Cook:

            The Labour leader has insisted that the wreath was laid for Palestinian and Tunisian victims of an Israeli attack on Tunisian soil in 1985, an operation that was denounced by most Western leaders at the time.

            Corbyns real crime in the eyes of the establishment is to support Palestinian rights and to be against war

            https://www.jonathan-cook.net/2018-08-25/israel-hidden-hand-jeremy-corbyn/

            • “You can go with that line if you like Shawn but I’ll take Corbyns word before yours”

              Well each to their own, but I think he’s a dangerous nutter. His history with various terrorist groups, and his willingness to share platforms with and promote people and groups who are unarguably anti-Semitic over the decades is extremely disturbing. I mean, this is a guy who actually opposed banning British citizens from travelling abroad to join ISIS, and said we should not make value judgements regarding such people. This is a guy who has defended and shared platforms with Holocaust deniers.

              So Jonathan Cook can say what he likes, but to me if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck…

              https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism

              • You can label Palestinians terrorists all you like Shawn but most people with eyes could see that the Right of Return Marchers carried no weapoms barring maybe a few stones when they were mown down by the IDF. Most people with eyes could also see the viciousness of the Israeli attack on the Gaza Strip in 2014 including the deliberate targeting of two 11 year old boys playing soccer on the beach. For the majority of Palestinians any attempt at dignity is smashed on a daily basis by the brute that is the Israeli State.
                Jewish people are not the same thing as Mossad just as NZers are not equivalent to the SIS. To equate these absolutely gives the green light to collective punishment which tells me immediately where you are comming from.

            • SPIKEYBOY, when even George Monbiot describes comments made by Corbyn as “anti-Semitic and unacceptable.” then it’s really not possible to dismiss the concerns as a Zionist or pro-war conspiracy.

                • No, it’s because he is reliably left wing, not pro-Israel, not pro-war, and has a long history of working for justice. So, as you think any opposition to Corbyn and the problem of anti-Semitism in his leadership of the party is really about pro-Zionists and pro-war people trying to remove Corbyn, people like George and others (and there are many others) are evidence that is not the case. He is also a man of integrity, and would not call out Corbyn for his ant-Semitism unless he thought it was a reasonable thing to do.

                  By the way, Corbyn’s not a god either.

                  • No he most definitely is not a god and neither is he anti semitic. Many Jewiish groups support him. Many Jews are not Zionists. Many Jews want peace and justice for Palestinians. Many Jews are his friends and support him. Many Zionist Jews see him as a serious threat. As the Guardian article you referenced above says (and I quote the author)
                    “I don”t believe there is an antisemitic bone in his body”

    • “Just as (the Useless) SIS doesn’t equate with New Zealanders.”

      Again, yes it does. The SIS is the New Zealand security agency, controlled and regulated by the government of New Zealand which is elected by New Zealanders. Citizens of a country are not always accountable for everything their government does, but neither can you separate the two cleanly and absolutely.

      • @Shawn I think NZ citizens lost control of our government decades ago and it stopped supporting what Kiwis wanted.

        In addition visitors or new residents make up roughly the same populations numbers as the Kiwis now with 4 million tourists per year, 150,000 foreign work permits given out and 70,000 new residents per year being granted citizenship/permanent residency here… Instead of our government keeping tracks of those numbers they instead tax the locals more to pay for the infrastructure while the ‘profits’ go to private increasingly overseas owned individuals and businesses, then our taxes are spent on spying on the locals while giving semi automatic weapons to unemployed visitors (with permanent residency as of right) like Tarrent, no questions asked.

        I feel for Jews and Muslims and anyone else who have their identity appropriated by murderous groups in their religions name… and somehow become the ‘identity’ of that group, when they don’t believe in that group at all.

    • +1 Win – you can’t judge an entire race by the actions of a group in power, especially when they seek to imprison Jews who don’t agree with Mossad. Modern day power structures seem more like webs than Pyramids.

  4. Yes, Chris, and I have been confronted with the same BS ‘theories’ by one or two persons I know, who I had thought of having more understanding, insight and intelligence.

    Conspiracy theories thrive in such an environment, when such horrific events take place, people have a tendencies to find someone to blame, and to simply accept that a human being with hateful thoughts may have caused the terror and horror on his own, that is not enough for them.

    And there we are with one big challenge that will pop up again and again. Any Muslim community in the world has usually sympathy with their brothers and sisters in Palestine, be it the West Bank, Gaza or elsewhere. They may have limited means and may be far away from them, but the least they usually do is offer moral support and solidarity.

    So Israel comes to mind quickly, and while Israel has a lot to answer for, it does also get blamed for things that it may have nothing to do with. And that is what appears to be happening here.

    What ‘benefit’ or ‘use’ would Israel have from perhaps funding or otherwise supporting a lone white supremacist Australian to shoot and kill fifty innocent Muslim worshipers?

    If ever found out, relationships with New Zealand would be ended full stop, despite of all past friendly relationships (to this day). Israel would be condemned by the UN, even the US would be unable to defend it from such serious allegations or even proven misconduct and terror.

    And otherwise Israel would have nothing to gain anyway, in material or other terms, as it would not make any sense, and as it has no material interest in what Muslims as a tiny minority in New Zealand do in their day to day living in peace here.

    Mossad can go about taking out the odd Hamas or Islamic Jihad leader, they may sabotage some activities in areas of interest (i.e. the areas administered by the Palestinian Authority, also in Gaza). Mossad buy spies in the Occupied Territories, they use them to gather info on activities by administrations and certain hostile groups there, and in some cases Mossad may blow up something there.

    The IDF does its activities, but they are usually also limited to what goes on in Israel, and the territories it occupies, seldom they reach out of that area, but they have in the past taken out nuclear facilities in Iran, also attacked some facilities in Iraq. They have bombed in Syria, doing it again now, they have taken action in Lebanon, all areas and places in the region, nowhere near the other side of the world, in sleepy New Zealand.

    So we are dealing with some hot tempered or desperate, angry persons, who have perhaps a tendency to blame Israel for anything bad, rather than informed and balanced minded persons.

    That will not stop the usual culprits have their own conspiracy theories. Some also thought there may be a connection to Austria, and the Identarians there. I consider that far fetched, as those people are not know to commit or support any such violent attacks, they are fighting with other, non violent means.

    With the manifesto of the terrorist now being banned from public access and spreading, and with other measures in place, the conspiracy theories will of course run wilder than usual, as they will find proof in all this, being stuff that can only prove that they are onto something.

    Meanwhile we are seeing SIS and GCSB given ever greater powers, even by Minister Little, and we are seeing how those agencies, also the police, will get yet more freedom to do what they see fit, under a government that used to criticise the National led ones before, for doing exactly that.

    We are at risk of becoming a defacto police state now, I fear. Facebook already heeded the call, and is now going to prohibit ‘white nationalists’ to use their services. The call by others will be, then do the same for black nationalists, for Zionists, for various other ethnic, cultural and religious groups that feel they have a special role and right to do what they do.

    We are getting down a slippery slope now, a very slippery one, I fear.

  5. And so it begins.. People of a religious bent, feel the need to let their imagination run away with them, I suspect that if someone was to ask what their moral and ethical values are, it would come back to a christian influence, which in turn promotes the “blame the jews” song.

    Conspiracy stories are interesting bed time stories but that’s all they should be.

  6. The profile of most mass killers is remarkably similar. They are invariably young male loners, completely isolated from family, friends and community. You know the ones -the type of kid you picked on at school. Study Columbine, Aramoana, Dunblane etc etc. This has nothing to do with the white supremacy social club. The astounding thing to me is our complete and utter lack of awareness!?!?

    • Good observation, society has things to consider and answer for. Picking on certain kids at school may set off a trail of destruction further down the track. It is the result of mobs acting as mobs, singling out people they perceive as different, weak, weird or whatsoever.

      Victims of such turn out to become isolated loners, and some of them, I stress only some of them, may later dish out revenge in the most harmful and terrifying manner.

      Perhaps some should learn from this, and stop picking on people for whatever reason, rather learn to engage in constructive ways. It may need to start at home, with parents teaching and guiding their kids into the right direction, so they are socially aware and responsible, not mere nasty competing developed human animals, out to beat others so they can win and be ahead of the pack.

  7. I’ve spent a lot of time reading about 9/11 and I am convinced that the official story is false.

    I am not prone to conspiracy theories and have come to this conclusion via logical reasoning.

    I would recommend James Corbett’s video series in The Corbett Report and books by David Ray Griffin.

    None of these claim that Israel is behind the attacks. It’s entirely plausible that the operation was a false flag to precipitate the “War on Terror” which was described in the mid 1990s in the document “Project for a New American Century ”

    However, I personally think it is best to stick to facts rather than speculation. In this regard, AE911Truth (Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, a group of several thousand professional engineers and architects) are raising funds for a Grand Jury re-investigation into the collapse of the Twin Towers and Building 7.

    Meanwhile, in the darker recesses of the internet, the 9/11 Truth movement has morphed into “everything is a false flag and the NWO are behind it” kind of stuff, which doesn’t so the professional types and favours.

    The Christchurch massacre has seen a lot of this, from it’s a “false flag” to various videos claiming that the streamed video is fake. These conspiracy theories don’t do anyone any favours because they are not based on facts

    The same can be said for the Mossad claims. There are no facts to back this up.

    I do agree that there are many unanswered questions. Banning the manifesto and video in NZ adds to the paranoia about conspiracies, as does the speed of the new gun laws.

    • I think the explanation for the “fake” videos is that when Facebook started taking the original one down, “sharers” manipulated, tweaked, added and altered to get past the filters and censors. By the time most people saw the video it had been vastly altered, possibly even made to look like a video game.
      Another absolutely false fact being passed around is that the police took 36 minutes to respond, while “only 5 minutes round the corner”
      In fact the police were at the mosque 6 minutes after the first 111 call, and had the guy arrested within 30 minutes. Alive no less.
      According to RNZ’s timeline which would be easily refuted by witnesses if wrong.
      http://shorthand.radionz.co.nz/NZ-DARKEST-DAY/index.html

  8. get the trail over and done with and send him back to where he belongs he is evil and way worse than all the so called bad kiwis the Aussies have sent back who haven’t committed mass murder.

    • The idea that Mossad would fund or support a White Supremacist terrorist to specifically attack NZ Muslims and commit mass murder, because of a difference of opinion regarding NZ foreign policy, is breathtakingly absurd. It’s akin to the “Jews were behind 911” insanity.

      Assuming the individual who shall not be named needed any support at all, which is unproven, the most likely culprits would be fellow White Supremacists, likely in Europe.

  9. Just as a new comment on part 1 of The Chris Trotter blame game series Ramzy Baroud who writes about the Palestinian troubles and came to Chch to speak at the cardboard cathedral has this to say about Marama:

    I also had the chance to meet with Marama Davidson, co-leader of the Green Party, among other MPs. It was strange to be in a position where solidarity from politicians came across as genuine as that of the unconditional solidarity of ordinary activists – once again, highlighting the uniqueness of New Zealand’s progressive politics and leadership.

    So to all the haters and wredkers of the Greens your view of Marama is just your own self cringing at your own image. Try standing tall and looking with courage.

    https://www.mintpressnews.com/visit-new-zealand-can-christchurch-heal-collective-wounds/256672/

    • Yes Spikeyboy, and the whole deal of the Greens being outside cabinet means they don’t have to toe the govt line.

      • Well then what is a comprehensive mode for equality. And now can we give a theory for enlightenment. I’d be sceptical of anyone offering a complete account of inequalities or a comprehensive theory of enlightenment, the government on the other hand will be slowly moving through those during Jacidna Arderns reign but I would get into and discuss these modes for social justice.

        So right now woke radical leftie social justice worriers are very problematic. If you remember during the great meme war of 2016 between Trump and Hillary Clinton, at the core of many axioms of the meme wars and foundational philosophy is the idea that many people have an alternative state of consciousness that is more real than there every day state of consciousness and that’s problematic precisely because we tend to judges realness in our over all connection with intelligence to make sense of things. But in the age of the Internet where these altered states are very different from our every day consciousness, it does not cohere with that people do the alternatives. For instance people don’t reject meat diets because it don’t congeal with our every day life. The woke lefties reject everyday consciousness as illusory and the pragmatist accepts everyday consciousness and thus improved access to reality.

  10. Has ANYBODY on this site actually LOOKED AT THE VIDEO ?

    The central primary source evidential data set

    Anyone here actually looked?

    I am assuming the author hasn’t.

    • I guess you are referring to now illegal, condemned footage, and are trying to somehow defend a mass murderer.

      You better check your ethical views if you have any.

      • Yeah, watched it live. Comparatively speaking the mosque attacker is low on the psychopathy spectrum. He hadn’t started playing with his victims not nearly as much as hardened veterans of The War on Terror. Luckily our terrorist never got to complete his murderous education.

      • Illegal? There are freedoms my Fathers and Mothers fought their whole lives for being threatened by this. I have driven chase cars in Christchurch and I have an ‘ethical’ interest in truth and justice through DISCOVERY, by properly studying the primary source dataset PIVOTAL to wide-ranging law changes in my own country.
        You don’t just give all this away because someone in uniform tells you to mate. You better buckle up. That footage should be FRONT and CENTER examined by everyone with knowledge of and interest in the pattern of things, firearms use, capabilities and a desire for the truth.

          • FIRST we need to TRIAL the critical forensic dataset central to this atrocity. The video metadata. Arguments for and against ‘anomalies’ in the dataset contested before Judge and Jury by experts in various fields. Because there IS LEGITIMATE DISPUTE of authenticity. I have explored two parts of that myself, in Dean’s Ave. Both need adjudication. We need find TARRANT on trial AFTER establishing on the record what the go-pro dataset examination tells us. Not before. There is something wrong here. The ‘bona fide’ of the primary dataset HAS TO BE ESTABLISHED in the Courts of LAW before truth can prevail.

  11. [Comment declined for publication. Iain, I have requested on multiple occasions that people should refrain from posting anything of a conspiracy theory nature on this Forum. Such material is offensive to those who have suffered from this tragedy. Your posting privileges are suspended for 48 hours until 11.53am, 2 April. Do not attempt to post anything else until after that time. – Scarletmod ]

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