I hate defending Chris Bishop – but come on – how is it surprising he’s an apologist for Israel?

By
Martyn Bradbury
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36
2312

Chris Bishop spoken to by Christopher Luxon on ‘strongly worded’ email comparing Hamas attack to Holocaust

National Party leader Christopher Luxon has spoken to MP Chris Bishop over a strongly worded email the MP sent about the Gaza conflict.

In the email, Bishop – ranked third in the National Party caucus, behind Luxon and Nicola Willis – wrote about the horrific actions of Hamas, and said such barbarity had not been seen since the Holocaust.

The email was widely shared on social media.

Luxon told Morning Report the language used was “strong” and it showed there were high emotions on both sides.

“Yeah, look, I spoke to him, I thought is was strong language, it’s also representative of strong emotions on all sides of this debate.

“I acknowledge for our Jewish and Muslim communities it’s incredibly difficult time … New Zealand has been consistent in condemning the attacks, in supporting the right of Israel to defend itself, and humanitarian needs [being] a priority.

“It is a tragic tragic set of circumstances that is playing out and that is the way we need to move through it.”

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National and the outgoing Labour government had both been calling for a humanitarian truce to allow aid into Gaza as the death toll topped 8000 people.

Luxon supported New Zealand’s recent vote at the United Nations on the truce – despite being the only Five Eyes partner who voted in favour of the resolution.

Luxon would not confirm whether he would go further and call for a ceasefire.

FFS

I HATE defending Chris Bishop, but two big things here with the use of his email to attack him.

First: It’s a private email! Calm the fuck down! It is not Government policy, he’s not speaking on behalf of the Government, this isn’t an offical perspective.

It’s him sounding off in a private email , that is a billion miles away from whipping this into some kind of thought crime.

He’s perfectly allowed to have an opinion on what is happening.

He’s 1000% wrong, but he’s not only allowed that opinion but he can express it in a private email.

If he had said it during an interview, challenge him and demand to debate the issue, but whipping him for a private email?

What’s next?

Trawling Twitter feeds?

Secondly, are any of you honestly surprised that this former Tobacco Lobbyist is an Israel apologist?

I would have put money on the fucking table that was his immediate response!

Money. On. The. Fucking. Table.

Less pearl clutching and more debating kids.

If we want to make a stand against this appalling violence, kick the Israeli Ambassador out.

Now purists will scream that the Caretaker Government can’t do that, but screw them, there’s an active war crime going on.

Sitting on our hands is not an option!

This is a moment of conscience.

We all understand the horror that Hamas has perpetrated with their barbaric attack. We all see this has been made as traumatic as possible to provoke the exact response Israel is now group punishing Gaza with.

Let me be crystal clear, I stand with the people of Palestine AND Israel!

I have zero time for anti-semites who cheer the pain of Israel, I accept and acknowledge the centuries of bigotry and pogroms that have plagued the Jewish people and that the attempted genocide of them during World War 2 demanded a significant global concession to create a homeland, and we can argue all day what boundaries you want to go back to, but the State of Israel remains and a two state solution to Palestine has to be agreed to.

All people of conscience want these two raging neighbours to enjoy the very freedom, agency and security all human beings yearn for and intrinsically deserve to have and peace is the only road towards that.

What the Christ is a ‘humanitarian pause’???

You mean, we will pause the war crimes being committed and then return to committing more war crimes?

How the fuck is the that a ‘humanitarian pause’?

Supposedly, this is proportional…

…glad we that cleared up.

But sure, let’s spend all our energy crucifying Chris Bishop for comments in a private email that are so fucking predictable I would have made a fortune betting on it.

Increasingly I hate all of us.

Can we praps get back to putting pressure on someone who actually is in power?

Chippy, you can’t drop bombs in a place as densely packed as Gaza and not kill innocent civilians.

70% of Palestinians killed so far are women and children. That’s not a military outcome, that’s an act of cruelty borne by a terrible vengeance!

We just can’t stand blindly by and not do something.

Even if it is symbolic, for Chris Hipkins to kick the Israeli Ambassador out would generate enormous global headlines and if Luxon rescinds it, we would have shown a moral courage to stand with the most vulnerable and weakest, even if it was just weeks.

We either act or admit we aren’t the good people we tell ourselves that we are.

 

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36 COMMENTS

    • Absolutely.
      Escalating this conflict is wrong. Celebrating the actions of either side is wrong!
      Blaming the Israelis for their response is also wrong.
      We should debate and figure out how we can help the Palestinians and the Israelis to coexist.

      Disarming both sides will be a great idea….. practical, when there are many independent countries surrounding Israel that want to see Israel destroyed?

      Arming both sides is wrong and those who do this should be sanctioned.

      We can do better. Chris Bishop is correct and so is Luxon. Reminding people to be sensitive towards the plight of others should be celebrated.

  2. Seriously, WTF did you expect? General rule of thumb is if the
    “Government is white,it’s alright” when it comes to Palestinians or any Arab for that matter. Look at the UN votes for conclusive proof.
    I’m sitting back watching the West self implode and I say it’s about fucking time! looking forward to the day when the Global south rules, maybe then the degenerate West will self reflect and say hang on, maybe we should have done more instead of letting ourselves be cancelled and labeled “antisemitic” for speaking the truth.
    Simple truth is Hasbara has dominated for years as a cover for human rights abuses and the theft of Palestinian land and culture all with complicit MSM, influencers and Politicians, time to cancel them.
    Where too now? who knows. Listening to rage against the machine certainly helps, never mind the complaints from neighbors.
    Not one cent will be spent on Israeli products, not one mouthful of Israeli food shall pass my lips and if Gaby and his ilk squeal and label me antisemitic so be it. Here’s my bottom line.
    One country, two people.

  3. I think it is great that she shared this. Definitely shows Bishop has no bloody idea at all. Where are the beheaded babies and all of the rest of the bullshit… I haven’t seen any of this at all.

  5. Fuck Chris Bishop and the zionist war-criminal apologist. And chopping babies heads off and mass rape without proof?? These are unproven allegations remember the apartheid state lies for a living!

  6. Several Latin American countries have kicked out the Israeli Ambassador and cut diplomatic ties.
    Aotearoa NZ should do the same–show some real solidarity with the Palestinians being pounded to dust and mangled body parts.

    It will take an international response from the world’s people to turn this horror show around and implement a Ceasefire. This should include boycotting all Israeli owned businesses–yes including Kebab shops, industrial action like blocking incoming and outgoing goods–yes CTU and Union members–time to step up! The Apartheid state does not like BDS one little bit.

    And…most importantly…US Imperialism needs to be hit too–because their financial and arms aid to the Israeli State and Military is on twin turbo boost still. Cut off US aid and Israeli aggression would dissipate by lunchtime.

    • “This should include boycotting all Israeli owned businesses–yes including Kebab shops”

      You aren’t usually so silly. By Israeli you can only mean Jewish.

      And to that I say, no, no and no. Israeli state policy and Zionism should never be equated with Jewish people, particularly outside Israel. The moment you do so is to give legitimacy to the equally vile practice of equating criticism of Israeli State policy to antisemitism.

  8. Proper, ashma, how come so many Kiwi!s suffer, farmer brown, how come your progressive chemicals for your, profit and animals produce., profit, above, not only those who produce your wealth, yet your!s uncaring of those who stagger, with chemical health problems.

  9. Two, roads, look how their joint care distance is departing, what do. Marx, Engel, argued, for years about violence, and the complete, of what they called the thing.

  10. Watching MSM describe the latest atrocities as a Hamas leader and 50 fighters killed instead of yet again innocent woman and children makes me throw up in my mouth. The genocide is being televised live.

    • We won’t though. We’ll get distracted by this issue and knuckle draggers like Mark Mitchell talking about make up while the new government gets away with fing the country for their sponsors.

      • Exactly, if National were any fucking good they’d have realised during their previous 9 years there was child poverty, not deny it.
        Trouble is National are fucking useless and you will see murdered babies numbers drop because National won’t have a measure for it and won’t be held to account, it’s what they do best!

  14. Stand up Chris Hipkins. This one isn’t a captain’s call – be the voice for the New Zealand people – NOW. Do it.

    Rewiri Waititi is speaking out for the people of New Zealand

    Why aren’t you?

  15. IMO the two-state proposal that MB, Israel, USA and others champion will never bring peace.

    Nor do I accept the right of Israel to exist as a state, a state founded in racially discriminatory principles. That right is an understandable construct and outcome nourished by European guilt and angst over the Holocaust. It is almost universally adopted as received wisdom in the West and policed by accusations of antisemitism against any who challenge it.

    Instead, I support the right of any person of Jewish/Hebrew descent, regardless of place of birth, to automatic citizenship in any neutral, democratic, state established upon non-racial or nonreligious democratic principles in the territories now jointly known as Israel, Gaza and West Bank. That is sufficient to ensure a safe homeland for the Jewish people. It should be known by a neutral name and all efforts should be made to return land seized from dispossessed Palestinians by illegal Israeli settlements since 1940 and/or offer fair and significant compensation.

    Inevitably, the people of these lands will have to learn to live together and that is achievable only when they can fairly empathise with each other’s position and work for a fair solution. Killing each other will never bring peace.

  16. Oh, my fucken God Trotter limits the number of characters you can send in comments now! Wish I had of know that before I wrote this long as fucking bible verse. Okay I’m over if. Here will have to do.

    I would like to clear the slat. Editor of The Daily Blog and Host of New Zealand’s Greatest politial podcast The Working Group, Martyn Bomber Bradbury has probably said things that annoy you and you’ve probably said things that annoy him and I’ve proactive said things that annoy you to but I’m assuming that you can set that aside in order to progress a peaceful resolution in Isreal, The West Bank and Gazza.

    I’m also assuming that you are feed up with Martyn and Mintos pro and pro+ Palestinian position so instead of getting bogged down in morals and ethics I thought I try and discuss what may be considered contradictory for those who read and listen and I’m not actually going to side with the right ethical position with regards to Intifada 2.0. Hopefully talking about logical positions is more productive than this is the right position or this the wrong position. Or this position leads to this there for do you believe in this consequence etc. I’m hoping you’re fine with how I’m trying to frame a left-wing view of Intifada 2.0 so far.

    It would also be good to discuss the ethics of Intifada 2.0 at some point but I’d request it be done on The Daily Blog cause I just don’t come here that often. So another day.

    I don’t think that is as far left as Minto but Martyn could not be possibly be an idiot but I do think that they say some very wrong things but I suspect that it’s to do with over stepping there bounds into fields of philosophy and economics or whatever which I think is something that is easy to do and forgivable and it’s something that philosphers or economists or whatever do in the opposite direction sometimes. But it’s not due to incompetence in there respected area of training.

    I’m going to read into Minto and Martyn very lossly now but they’re not calling for the destruction of Isreal. Not sure about Minto haven’t read into him very deeply but Martyn on several occasions agree hamas should get the Mossad, several different times. And I agree that Hamas has done enough to bring out a full scale IDF invasion with all its consequences and collateral damage. And I’m basing this opinion off of my ready and listening of Martyn mostly and Minto sometimes and my own understanding of the laws and events at play.

    I’m not trying to get all philosophical here here just tried to make statements about my reading and listening of Martyn that may seem contradictory but with the passage of time hopefully could he reconciled. That’s the general gist of why I’m getting so wrapped up about it right now actual peace and reconciliation between Isreal and Palestine is way way higher*** threshold.

    I mean if you just read the titles they’re bombastic, that’s why I read Bomber but if you actually look at the content it broadly goes with what I’m discussing here.

    Back to what I was saying there’s two things I hope I can get through both but the main thing is I wanted to talk about what is actually a contradictory statement with regards to what I’m talking about. Then I’ll go over what you called Martyn out for after we, hopefully agree to what a contradiction actually is and I think I can do this just by using standard logic, no truth tables and with that agreement of a contradiction I’d ask that you look at what you’ve called Martyn out on with my example of a contradiction. I suspect that you would agree once you have an understanding of the notions that a logistition would use when they’re talking about a contradiction. I suspect that when you have that notion in your head that you will probably agree that these things are nit contributions, even if you have other problems with them or you think that there was a contradiction or it wasn’t expressed perfectly.

    Basically those two things clearing up what a contradiction is and agreeing on that and looking at what you’ve called Martyn out on and agreeing, or not. That Matyns and Mintos statements about the brutality and barbarism in the Middle East and whether they actually are contradictions. Just assuming here but I’m hoping you’re good with all this so far.

    Okay here goes I’m not going to bring quotes like I’m trying to snipe people by saying here’s all your fucking things agree with me now or I’ll destroy you on every point but on the base level murder is wrong and using overwhelming violence and force to stop murder is not contradictory. That statement is not the exact procedure, law or philosophical outlook it’s more of an emotional attitude. I know that if you don’t have the exact quote about what us actually said then they’ll be disagreement but that’s just painful so let’s just take out what us actually contradictory about an eye for an eye mentality and see if we can agree about this.

    So in formal logic in which a philosophy student would take or computer scientist and I’m assuming that you taken taken some sort of formal logic course. I mean even PHDs are not going to know these things because formal logic isn’t apart of there educational stream. I mean you could ask me anything about your field of study and I would most likley completely flunk. Hope you get my point I basically jump into the workforce at 15yrs old but the way that a contraction work I’m an eye for an eye statement is that there would be some proposition is desirable or undesirable depending on how you negate that proposition. Here’s some contradictory statements.

    “The sky is blue, the sky is not blue.”

    “Isreal comits acts of barbarism, Hamas comits acts of barbarism.”

    “I’m sitting in a chair right. I’m not sitting in a chair right now.”

    I assume youre still with me its kind of mathee this language stuff there’s truth table generators you can get in the app store but I assume you understand that a proposition would be something that is desirable and I hope we can agree that murder is wholly undesirable but you can run statements through truth generators and get pretty descent breakdowns if you’ve got a price for premium but the more you search out contradictions the better you’ll get.

    But in essence a propotion is something that is capable of retaining truth value. Again it’s something lime

    “I have hands.”

    Or “I’m left-wing.”

    Or “you read blogs.”

    Again those are propositions.

    A question like Martyns recent Blog title
    I hate defending Chris Bishop – but come on – how is it surprising he’s an apologist for Israel?

    This title is not a proposition because it does not store any truth value. Nouns like couch or Mintos love of listing atrocities isn’t a proposition.

    Okay I’m gassed out. Hopefully I’ve been helpful. If you want to discuss this further or @me your best chance is to flag me down at the daily blog. Peace.

  17. Every single civilian death must be laid at the feet of Hamas.

    It is they who started this war. It is they whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews. It is they who shelter behind civilians. Hamas welcomes every single Arab death because each is a propaganda coup: A justification to whip up sympathy.

    Sadly, sometimes in war there needs to be a Hiroshima or a Dresden in order to achieve victory. The IDF must finish this off once and for all.

    • Fact VS reality.
      “Every civilian death must be laid at the feet of Hamas”
      Every civilian death must be laid at the feet of Israel, starting with the Nakba.
      “There is no Palestinian state”
      Technically correct. However the geographical area which was once known as Philistine was located in what is now greater Israel documented as early as 10,000 BCE and recorded by the ancient Egyptians and Greeks as well as the Bible.
      The name was changed to Palestine over 2000 years ago by the Romans as punishment and expulsion of the Jews because of Jewish massacres of captured Roman prisoners. As the original inhabitants Palestinians have a legitimate claim to the land. Goliath was a Philistine.

      God promised Israel to the Jews”
      As previously explained the Philistines/Palestinians predated Jews by 7000-8000 year and Jews were the usurpers.
      God additionally exiled the Jews for breaking the covenant with God and cursed to wander the earth, so which is it?

      “They who call for the destruction of Israel”
      Incorrect. The Hamas charter was revised in 2017 recognizing Israel, calling for a two state solution within the 1967 borders. (Israel deliberately uses the old charter for Hasbara)

      “Hamas is a terrorist organization”
      The militant wing is a terrorist organization, however the Hamas civilian Government is recognized as being Democratically elected by the West.
      Hamas is additionally a byproduct of a US backed coup in 2005.

      “Israel has no one to negotiate with”
      There’s always the Democratically elected Hamas civilian Government.

      “Israel is the most moral army in the World”
      Palestinian civilians thank the IDF for giving them 1 minutes warning before slaughtering them in their refugee camps with no means of escape.

      “Israel is the only Democracy in the middle east”
      Just forget about the 67 laws that discriminate against Arab Israelis including laws that allows them to be held in detention without Lawyers or trial indefinably. Jewish only road anyone? Want to marry a Palestinian? good luck with that.

      “Palestinians are animals/savages/Snakes/ terrorists/ exterminate them ”
      As a wise Palestinian said ” It only took 80 years to change from the word Jew to Arab. Poetically put, but he was wrong by 75 years.

      IMO Israel has a serious problem when they call up a 95 year old who openly brag’s about how he and his unit raped and murdered Palestinian Woman and Children during the Nakba, openly calling for the IDF to do the same. The irrefutable facts are when you look at Israelis they are White.White.White in Arab lands.

      Two People. One land. NOW!

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