It doesn’t matter to National voters that the Military Boot Camps are counter productive, it doesn’t matter that they don’t work and it doesn’t matter that they lead to stronger, fitter criminals, all that matters is that their sense of rage and thirst for suffering and punishment are met.
In fact, for many National voters, it’s just funny that Military Boot Camps don’t work as it makes the Left scream in rage.
It’s less social policy and more vengeance trolling.
Our Prison system is counter productive, they are underfunded, corrupt and violent places that can’t heal because National voters don’t want healing, they want suffering and punishment.
I have no problem keeping people in prison – IF they are an environment where they can heal and repair and reform, the punishment is their loss of liberty, not making them suffer.
Our desire to hurt others is a very juvenile settler culture knee jerk and we should not feed it.
People must be punished for terrible crimes, but the punishment is the loss of liberty – not treating them like scum and making their existence suffering.
That simply creates more damaged people coming out than going in!
This is the lesser angels of our nature, we are a better people than this vengeance.
Increasingly having independent opinion in a mainstream media environment which mostly echo one another has become more important than ever, so if you value having an independent voice going into this pandemic and 2020 election – please donate here.
If you can’t contribute but want to help, please always feel free to share our blogs on social media.
But the alternative voters have is – prisons don’t work so let’s not put people there. If the government could demonstrate that they were reforming people outside prison and protecting the community this message might not have appeal.
The government might be but I don’t see it being demonstrated so I assume it isn’t and I think a lot of voters see it that way. Just look at crime reported in community Facebook groups.
Therefore voters see the community is already being damaged and a prisoner in prison can’t do it.
Maybe its – I have no problem keeping people in prison – IF they are(n’t in) an environment where they can heal and repair and reform
Military boot camps aren’t necessarily cruel. If done properly it could help instill discipline, skills, and a sense of order in young people’s lives.
Everyone is screaming they “don’t work”? What is meant by that? When was the last time boot camps were tried? Where is the research evidence demonstrating they “don’t work”? Noone has provided this evidence yet, as far as I am aware.
NZ’s Army, Navy, & Airforce are organisations that take motivated fit healthy young people and turn them into soldiers, sailors and airmen. There’s no place for the unmotivated, the layabouts or those of low intelligence.
Professional soldiers are not babysitters, they hate this when previously tried.
NZ’s Army, Navy, & Airforce are organisations that take motivated fit healthy young people and turn them into soldiers, sailors and airmen. There’s no place for the unmotivated, the layabouts or those of low intelligence.
Professional soldiers are not babysitters, they hate this when previously tried.
tell me about the success of borstals or the NZ equivilant, all they do is keep them off the streets for the period of their sentence…if that’s enough for you fine, but they will eventually be out and on your street.
In my view, why not make it boarding school for 2 years, with boot camp plus school. Where 15_17yr troubled kids learn discipline, life skills, catch up on education/ learn a trade, and get support to get off any drugs/ deal with any trauma. After 2 years, they go to uni or get help finding a job. They get limited interaction with old friends and family during the 2 years. Once a week they may visit not their usual marae/ church etc if they are so inclined.
Great idea.
And Sam Uffendill could be one of the teachers, or better still, the headmaster!
That’d teach ’em – the hard, bed-leg way!
Pathetic
rob, name an instance anywhere in the ‘west’ where they have worked and not ended in a mire of physical and sexual abuse charges….I’d be in favour if the idea worked but it’s been tried many times and doesn’t….mind you NZs propensity for implimenting others failed policies probably means we are gonna do it.
The problem is tha the Boot Camp idea takes hold with the public out of Labour’s perceived inaction in establishing consequences as regards juvenile violent criminal activity. “I have no problem keeping people in prison – IF they are an environment where they can heal and repair and reform, the punishment is their loss of liberty, not making them suffer.” Many of these juveniles are too young to be sentenced to prison and there don’t appear to be enough youth detention facilities. Youth workers talk about providing wrap around services to stop youth entering into criminal activity, but these things take years for behaviourail changes to happen. Meanwhile violent juvenile crime and ram raids continue continue to the point that the public are upset. Labour immediately needs to come back with a credible effective immediate response to stop such crime in their tracks otherwise voters may look to the other side of the fence…..
Ohhh my, 2 posts back to back on same subject!
Getting worried Martyn?
What are your solution to these little shits/criminals?
Ohhh and blaming Key is such a weak cop out, never seen you questioning the parent(s) or gang influence in the lives of the offenders, although that may be a bit racist….so yes…let’s blame Key lol
Getting worried I’m right?
it’s what happens when Martyn hits a nerve.
And yes, let’s not blame Key for anything eh, free reign and all that but let’s blame Labour and Ardern for everything..lol!
On the button MHK the blame sits with Ardern and her do nothing Government.
Boot camps aren’t a deterrent and not harsh enough!
This is what I would do. If your commit any crime with a sentence of more than 6 months in prison, you lose your right for any government benefits for the rest of your life!
Also, the first offence has the penalty of the removal of your left arm. Hopefully you are right-handed, so you can still wipe yourself after going to the bathroom.
Second offence the removal of your left leg.
Third offence the GUILLOTINE!
Wow – I didn’t realise we were now a banana republic!
This mentality will only get lots more people – yes some of them innocent – hurt or worse.
More than 6 months in prison is a very large number of offence types – have you actually check this?
If this sort of system were to be implemented there would be massive civil disorder or a magnitude not seen in this country. Victims of crime are much more likely to be severely hurt or worse as offenders seek to keep their legs and heads!
Dumbfuckwittery at it’s best – you are either a National or ACT supporter.
Yes Zelda go back to whatever country you came from is it Iran
It could be a deterrent with rapists if it involved castration.
I couldn’t stop laughing, made my day. Now, before anyone gets offended, please note I am not taking Zelda seriously, it is a good comic relief, something Netflix would produce.
tsk tsk zelda
Zelda. Sharia law is not wanted in this country, got it ? We can do better than that, and even a total idiot knows to start with the societal circumstances which give rise to miscreants, tragic outliers, and persons like you.
It should matter to National voters that National tried it, found it didn’t work, and National stopped it. It is nonsensical to argue we must try something so let’s try what we know doesn’t work.
As much as I disagree with National, the average voter is seeing young kids ramraid stores, attack people, stealing cars, purposely knocking cyclists of cars, extremely high truancy rates and ever decreasing literacy rates and are fearful that someone is going to die.
When national proposes dumb ideas like this or criticizes truancy and the left have epic tantrums and meltdowns justifying truancy, the average voter won’t remember nationals dumb policy they’ll remember the cringe meltdowns from the left justifying truancy and that’s what they’ll remember. That the left doesn’t care about truancy.
This policy is stupid but the left hasn’t come up with their own policies to calm down a fearful, angry electorate.
The average voter won’t understand why parents aren’t at the very least getting charged with negligence for not knowing where there 9 year old kid is at night while he’s driving around in stolen cars.
The left needs to come up with something better than ” you can’t do that cos xyz ” “truancy is a complex issue”
And my biggest fear is that one of these little shits is gonna kill some member of the public or get killed themselves by members of the public or a shop owner because as we’ve seen this week the public are sick or it and are starting to intervene.
If a shop owner for instance defends themselves and kills one of these kids the left will be screaming what a monster this shop owner is but the public will quietly take sides with the shop owner.
Its only a matter of time till someone dies.
The left needs more than getting outraged at nationals dumb plans and come up with plans of their own, the public tunes out when politicians criticize ideas without having their own ideas
Announcement Labour have been in charge of the prisons for the last 5 years and all they seem to have achieved is drop in the number of staff so that they are presently 800 short of full muster . I vote National but think prisons should be a place of rehabilitation not retrebution and while you make much of Luxon’s approach to young criminal wath ever Labour is trying is obviously not working.
Trevor National themselves proved boot camps don’t work hence National dropped them. Even former National MP’s think its daft
Also statistically ram raids have decreased so what does “not working” mean? Just because the media decide, depending on the news cycle, to cover them or not doesn’t actually tell the whole story. Ram raid problem? Yes, most definitely. Increasing ram raid problem? It would appear not.
Just came across this. I know it’s an American source, yet it refers to ‘global modern history’
Rather interesting….
POLICY & LAW
May 10, 2021
Millennials Commit Less Crime Than Prior
Crime has dropped since 1990, but not for the reasons some might think, according to a new study. Research from the LBJ School of Public Affairs at The University of Texas at Austin suggests crime reduction efforts account for less than half of the crime drop since 1990 and essentially none of the crime drop since 2000. Researchers also discovered that millennials commit less crime than prior generations.
Most attempts to find causes and solutions to crime are focused on current conditions. But researchers said current crime rates do not depend only on current conditions. Rather, crime rises and falls based on the life experiences and decisions of young children. Crime rates dropped rapidly among millennials (born after 1985). The age group born between 1946 and 1964, commonly known as baby boomers, was the most criminally active in modern history.
The peer-reviewed study was published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology.
“Since criminal activity starts in the teens and peaks at about 18, this means improved conditions in childhood – families, neighborhoods, schools – were mostly responsible for the crime drop,” said Bill Spelman, a professor of public affairs at the LBJ School and author of the report. “The best way to reduce crime in the future is probably what caused it to drop in the first place: helping our families, neighborhoods and schools raise kids who are respectful of others and don’t need to steal to get by. It’s time we shifted focus from stopping bad guys to helping kids be good guys.”
500% increase in ram raids
53% increase in gang numbers
Truancy at record levels
22000 more people on the social housing waiting list
Yeah the left are clearly on top of this…
So, Mickey we spend more money on something that doesn’t work? Thats make no sense
It’s impossible to spend more money on stuff that doesn’t work than what this fucking govt is spending. We see proof of it every day.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2206/S00028/lsv-course-helps-young-people-develop-skills-for-success.htm
Ok, this has all the thought processes of their tax cut policy crossed with Labours light rail to Mt Roskill by 2021. Meaning none.
For starters the military don’t want prisoners to turn into better humans. They are not set up for employing dysfunctional criminals and mentoring them.
It’s failed previously.
It’s not going to work because it defies logic, gravity and laws of thermo dynamics. Trying to engage someone to do something they don’t want to do that is not a prison sentence is set to fail. What is going on inside of National? It’s embarrassing!
But let’s be honest, Labours law and order policy is what we’re living with and it is abysmal!
Well maybe it will straighten them out and quite frankly, with the sorts of crimes these little things are committing, I suspect most people are quite happy for this to be an entirely unpleasant experience.
There’s a reason why crime is spiralling out if control, Labour has greatly reduce the consequences of being caught.
Well maybe it will straighten them out and quite frankly, with the sorts of crimes these little things are committing, I suspect most people are quite happy for this to be an entirely unpleasant experience.
There’s a reason why crime is spiralling out if control, Labour has greatly reduce the consequences of being caught.
As above: a dumb idea from National but you folks on the Left don’t have anything at all except policies of prison release and wet bus ticket shit while ordinary people – including my two Labour neighbours – grow fearful with their teenage kids getting beaten up on the street and in GI train station.
TBF, Labour/Green also want punishment and suffering – but of we non-criminals, presumably because we’re terrible people for creating these desperate criminals and so deserve our punishment for not building a better society along Lefty ideas.
Tom Hunter. Don’t be so silly. If poss.
What does Labour propose to stop the ram raids? what does Labour propose to stop the bashing of people waiting for buses?
Well not something that has been proven not work for a starter. Do you suggest we should spend 25mil on something that doesn’t work?
Reactionary Bratwurst “ Stop the bashing of people waiting for buses ? “. Easy. Get rid of the buses. That’s what the Wellington City Council did. Painted rainbow pedestrian crossings instead. Then repainted them, and will have the whole of the Windy City speaking Te Reo by 2030. What’s more the WCC has bus hubs, not bus shelters, so citizens can hub if not inclined to cross, with free dolphin stamps on the hands for confused tourists, correct counsellors, and oldies looking for a warm library.
You also can not rehabilitate these young ones if the family they come from are not ‘rehabilitated’. Somewhere these kids get the sense that it is ok to do what they do. So they do it. Go home, eat dinner, rinse repeat.
What is the left proposing to fix this issue, as clearly these kids are going to be the adults at some stage? then you lock them up? After they murdered or maimed someone for life? IS that what needs to happen?
Headline re written:
“Voters Don’t Care If 7 Bollard Installations Are Counterproductive.”
Truth: Leftie voters now shitscared because National proposes something while Labour does absolutely nothing. Thus reinforcing why they need to be voted out.
Thank you Coward Kraut for your satirical post, it was hilarious “National proposes something” bahahahahaha!!!
Don’t worry Bomber. If the Nats get in there’ll be pain and suffering aplenty for everyone, not just the kids…
To my mind this all comes back to affordable housing for all and if that doesn’t work unfortunately, child uplifts. If parents are abusing their kids and or abusing others, criminals etc then maybe the kids should be uplifted so they can have a chance in life and we can all live in a society which isnt constantly trashed by thugs. Yes, it’s not the kids fault but you have to stop the problem at its root.
I have said it before and will say it again. What few people dont understand is that the CYFS review that recommended uplifts had as its main aim, the safety and welfare of the child. So it was not mainly about money.
Child uplifts are horrendous but maybe it is the only way to break the chain. Clean your life up or you lose your kids. And let’s not automatically put them back in the same circumstances they came out of. Where the caregiver is only doing it for the money.
We do need to get tough on all these things but they are not one dimensional. Like health, there are other social determinants and I would suggest they are stable housing and community, quality of family environment and education.
The truth is when we let these situations get exacerbated by “We must put more money in and it will all be better” then it doesnt work because NZ is a struggling country economically with a burgeoning social problem. There are too many problems all requiring huge injections of cash most without defined and measured monitoring on outcomes.
We cant afford it all, we are paying many NZ households to get by as it is. So we as a Nation need a govt who will tell it to us like it is (and bugger the ideology) and say to people we can fix this if we prioritise AND MAKE THE HARD CALLS so what are the priorities. Then when the people have defined them, they can come back with a warts and all policy and say you want it fixed here are the alternatives (supported by data) and the costs and this is our plan to fix it.
I know the right wingers bang on about New Zimbabwe but honestly if we keep on with this victim centred culture and dont do something that is not entirely different to where we will end up.
I note that TOP has come out this morning with the sensible proposal that Labour should have rolled out 5 years ago. It is also likely to cost way less, from what I have read it could be much much cheaper. And thank God, they have taken the elephant out of the room and said “We need an MoW” because paying for services is inefficient in some (IMO, many) circumstances. Like skyrocketing inflation, lack of skills, skyrocketing wages and global capitalism!
And all the brown kids will get sent to the Russian front at the end of the course via 6 weeks training in the UK after they’ve signed up with the NZ Army at the end of bootcamp.
meh – all worked up over property crime that is the result of the society these kids are growing up in – what a bunch of muppets. the biggest crime is the society we live in that fosters children to want to do this shit in the first place. yes – I’m looking at people like 7 houses Luxon. fuckin parasites sucking the blood from our youth.
Parents are legally responsible for their kids until 18 years old, so hold the useless pricks legally responsible for their drop kick kids.
The stats clearly show the left is soft on crime and this has all blown out on their watch – gang numbers, gun crime, ram raids.
Labour criticize any attempt to fix their crime crisis while emptying the prisons on to the street and giving gangs millions of dollars.(sure enough recent raid on gang “rehab” yield meth, cash and guns)
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/11/calls-to-shut-down-rehab-centre-wrong-after-police-raid-found-drugs-money-guns-centre-director.html
Boot camp is clunky, but at least it’s not sponsoring gangs for votes.
In the words of Jelo Biafra (Dead Kennedy) “Kill kill kill kill the poor”!
Probably this is the stupidest policy ever from brain dead Natz. And Jack and Jill Blue – Voter will applaud.
mitchell and webb ‘kill the poor’ secret recording of a nats strategy meeting.
John De Silva ran a very successful boot camp on Great Barrier Island a few years back. Many of the kids are still traumatised by what when on there.
How has ‘sales’ gone for the Left? Just Sanders, Reich, Corbyn … with any moral command. Not beyond our fingers count for the people? It’s very strange, when we’re right.
When you think three hundred years — and I’m exaggerating — of the industrial revolution, it makes sense. Mum lasted ninety years , from paper grocery bags to paper grocery bags. Short term is how we live and die.
The Nats probably care no more about having boot camps than they do about whether they’re effective or not. This is el cheapo virtue signalling trying to make Labour look soft on crime, tossing non-costed ideas out onto the Wellington wind.
Stanford agreeing to ankle bracelets for 10 year olds, is a big mistake though. They’d become a badge of honour for bad kids, decent people find the whole idea instinctively abhorrent, and they’d further entrench these children as outsiders. It won’t happen, period.
I agree Snow White, this policy will take years to implement, the army, social workers youth workers etc.etc. and by the time it is implemented the ram raiders of today will have grown up and by the law of averages with these children most of them will have seen sense and will have gone on to be a productive member of society
Comments are closed.