To be honest with you all, I never read The Standard because it’s politically irrelevant, tedious and oh so safe. Ironically the last time I had anything to do with Greg Presland was when he, Chris Trotter and I were plotting to get Cunliffe in as Labour Leader (I know, I know, I know – not one of my greatest strategic ideas) so I don’t visit The Standard, I don’t read it and don’t rate Greg much as a writer.
I’d call him a hack, but that requires an edge and Greg is too dull for that.
His bewilderingly nasty attack on Comrade Trotter yesterday however shall not stand for two reasons.
1 – Greg’s wrong.
2 – To paraphrase the Wu-Tang Clan, TDB ain’t nuthin’ to fuck with.
Now Comrade Trotter is writing his own blistering appraisal of Greg’s blog but allow me to offer up the entree before he serves the mains.
Greg’s argument is that because Chris criticises Labour’s incrementalism and lack of actual detail on controversial issues like Hate Speech, co-governance and 3 Waters, that Chris risks winning the election for National…
Which is why Comrade Chris’s attacks on the Government are so unhelpful. You would think that someone wanting a socialist nirvana would be patient as progress is made albeit somewhat gradually rather than want us to lurch back into the sort of New Zealand National gave us in the 1990s.
…Greg then lists Jacinda’s ‘achievements’…
Labour has delivered 14,000 public and transitional homes while in Government and if current trends continue the housing shortage should be eradicated within a year. And housing prices are falling as Labour’s policies around ownership kick in and new stock comes onto the market.
In relation to child poverty Labour has lifted 66,500 children out of poverty so far, and the latest figures show all nine child poverty measures continue to trend downwards.
And in relation to climate change the Climate Commission has been created, the Zero Carbon Act passed and importation of electric vehicles is surging.
And the Government is moving to tax greenhouse gas emissions in the Farming Sector. The political push back shows how resistant the right will be to this policy.
…so allow me to respond Greg.
We on the Left have squandered an unprecedented MMP majority for incremental bullshit that are not ‘good first steps’ Greg, they are merely jogging on the spot.
Labour has delivered 14,000 public and transitional homes while in Government and if current trends continue the housing shortage should be eradicated within a year. And housing prices are falling as Labour’s policies around ownership kick in and new stock comes onto the market.
Bullshit! As John Minto has pointed out, the State Housing sector has been a joke and a major failure of policy…
The latest state house waiting list numbers – only for those in very serious housing need – keeps rising at more than double the rate Labour are building state houses. As at March 2022 it stands at 26,868. When Labour came into government in 2017 it stood at just 5,844.
8,700 of those on the waiting list are in Auckland where the sale of crown land is the most intensive.
Last month Ardern told parliament this Government has built more than 9,000 public homes, “more homes than any government since the 1970s”.
What Ardern didn’t reveal was how many state houses were demolished in the same period. When Labour came to office in 2017 there were 63,204 state houses available for rent. Today that number stands at 68,765 – in other words a net increase of 5,561 houses over 4 ½ years or 1,236 per year.
Put another way – over the past year there has been a net 907 increase in state houses available for rent while the state house waiting list has increased by another 3,000.
…and as for the $1million dollars a day to kettle beneficiaries into dangerous motels, that is not a fucking success Greg, it’s a tiny band-aid on a haemorrhaging wound!
In relation to child poverty Labour has lifted 66,500 children out of poverty so far, and the latest figures show all nine child poverty measures continue to trend downwards.
As our own Professor Susan St John has pointed out, those stats are based on misleading MSD data…
Sure, material hardship rates for many children improved between 2013-21, thanks to government measures, rising employment rates, improving wages. BUT the MSD report itself is at pains to say that these results do not reflect anything like the full extent of the pandemic period. Let’s not forget too, the huge efforts of the proliferating private charities and foodbanks, which while utterly necessary, remain a disturbing indicator of policy failure.
…we spend $1Billion a year on consultants but can’t manage to implement any of the Welfare Expert Advisory Group recommendations!
And in relation to climate change the Climate Commission has been created, the Zero Carbon Act passed and importation of electric vehicles is surging.
And the Government is moving to tax greenhouse gas emissions in the Farming Sector. The political push back shows how resistant the right will be to this policy.
OH COME ON! If you think being Carbon Neutral in 28 years is a solution to catastrophic climate change – YOU are the problem Greg.
You are part of the Professional Managerial Class inside Labour whose incrementalism has strangled off any real pressure for the transformative change we were promised in 2017!
Look, I am a huge fan of Jacinda and Labour, I believe they are a far better option than the horror of a National/ACT Government, but your tribal one eyed evaluations and claims Trotter critiquing the lack of transformative change is somehow the reason why National might win next year reeks of tribal Labour desperation post a bad poll.
Your sanctimoniously smug argument holds no water for me sweetheart.
TDB ain’t nuthin’ to fuck with.
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You are too kind to Presland. Remember with Clint Smith and Neale Jones Presland is one of the chief architects of JacindaLand.
He is to Ardern what Tucker Carson is to Trump.
Tucker better thinking about Ron De Sanctimonious. Donald’s goose is cooked.
carLson dear boy. There’s an El in it. The devil IS in the detail after all.
More bullshit in this article, the state house waiting list has increased and will continue to increase because more people are eligible unlike when national were in power it was hard to meet the criteria. And they did this on purpose to hide the rates of homelessness. A bit like getting legal aid, they (National) made it so hard many of the poor started representing themselves so much for the law being fair and issue of equal access to justice. I was a state housing tenants for many years under both parties’ racism and discrimination was rife and what do you expect when Pakeha had all the top decision-making jobs, and this was the same in all of the other government agencies for decades.
National changed the rules and reduced the number wanting state houses to 5000
Labour kicked up a fuss.
Labour came in THEY DID NOT CHANGE THE RULES BACK to what they were before the Nats changed them so you are wrong wrong wrong.
Labour have failed miserably.
Covid is pa is right, you are wrong Michal. Unlike National, Labour didnt turn people away.
Labour put all Keys homeless on the list also others living in cars and garages or living 15 per house. Those in motels went from poverty to normal.
Yes, the unquestioning crap served up in your quotes may go nicely in the tightly controlled echo chamber of The Standard where I think even it’s few bloggers aren’t allowed to critically think but in the real world, it’s just empty and pretty much sums up Labours leadership thought processes. Maybe because Greg is one of the very few left, he’s run out of things to say!
Climate Change. The professional managerial middle class should vote Labour because they just got their brand new Tesla’s they were going to buy anyway, discounted. Cheers for that team! The rest of us. Get the fuck out of here!
Housing. You cannot praise Labour involvement this area without losing all credibility! And housing and child poverty are not mutually exclusive, they go hand in hand!
Who actually does read the Standard anyway?
TS does not permit free speech, basically any posts disagreeing with the group hive mind think they are either not published…asked by all to provide links/proof or more than likely banned from posting as ‘trolling’, seems a different viewpoint is trolling and the person posting is being paid by National sighhhh!
And the contributions by Weka are just a waste of space reading and replying to (disagree with anything she posts and you are a RWNJ or/and hate women!
Well having posted on Whale Oils site and being threatened with physical violence and a visit to my house I’d say Weka and the Standard are the lesser of two evils and the least of your concerns unless of course you’re not worried about balanced opinions.
Comrade Trotter is a shrewd political analyst. I value his opinion more than Mr Presland. I think the polls show that the electroate is very underwhelmed with the current cabinet / leadership.
Yeah, well I read the Standard to see what others are saying, and post there about as often as I do here. This was my post on the Presland piece on Chris Trotter.
“Chris Trotter has been in the crap with some on the broad spectrum of the left ever since the mid 80s when he began writing for the National Business Review. He was then involved with various retail unions and the Distribution Workers Federation among others. Unionists did not appreciate his apparent class collaboration, but he did make up for it somewhat during the New Labour and Alliance years–which of course simultaneously lowered his stakes in NZ Labour even more.
He was probably an early cross class “pundit”, of which the world seems to be infested by now in their multi thousands, and is certainly a long distance columnist in terms of work. So to get paid he needs to have a ratio of left/right oriented columns depending on the publication and the audience.
I prefer my pundits to be doctrinaire with a definite class position one way or another, right opportunism rarely has a pleasurable end.”
I knew Chris personally and he has many good qualities. Read his columns or not. But, NZ Labour “dun it to demselfes” largely by squandering a once in a generation MMP majority because of a 40 year neo liberal consensus. Many people due to their age that know no other New Zealand apart from a monetarist dog eat dog scenario think differently from us old school activists, and are often lost as to how to achieve needed change.
• Hot Tip: it is not voting for Natzos and ACT!
Not all new gens are lost though, and each boomer funeral brings us closer to the glorious day when Rogernomics and Ruthanasia will be booted.
Glad you wrote this Bomber. I am appreciative that you and Chris while maintaining a left wing stance don’t hesitiate to criticize Labour and most often your criticisms are deserved.
I very much like that The Daily Blog has a range of views.
Greg comes across as a nice guy type, but everything he writes almost without exception is supportive of Labour. In other words he is tribal
I haven’t been censored on TS and for that I am grateful as I often express GC views. But I notice if I post anything critical of the Govt, very often I get personally atttacked.
Is that Greg writing using the term ‘ socialist nirvana’? That is just another reason for me to question his thought processes, if any. More proceeding along an empty corridor with lots of closed doors along it.
And brings to mind somehow the pre Monty Python sketch The Four Yorkshiremen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k
Where the four self-satisfied men sit around recalling the fabled days of yore when they were children on their knees trying to rise in a socially upward direction. And outdoing each other for their poignant heart-wrenching measures of poverty. It’s in that sort of frame you might refer to ‘socialist nirvana’.
All crap but quite entertaining once you realise the extent of the hyperbole and hypocrisy. Funny that I find real fairy stories are often analogies for what is happening right now in our culture, though these were heard and written down centuries ago. Man’s (and wimmens) deviousness remains and renews itself fresh for every sitting.
Whilst I don’t agree with Trotter all the time I make sure I read him and give consideration to points I disagree with. Presland material on the other hand I have investigated and found wanting. Presland and the Standard are not worth reading IMO! This is a much better blog!
Comrade Trotter has strayed from the true faith. One cannot criticise or (shock) withdraw support from the church and not expect attempted excommunication.
“risks winning the election for National”
This has become a standard rhetorical tactic of the establishment left (The Hillary Clinton school of deflecting responsibility). It is not their policies or decision making that is at fault. The fault lies with YOU the little people. To disagree is a sign that you are ethically suspect or mentally ill.
Or just plain dumber than them.
And so, eventually, the left ate itself.
Pronouns: was/were.
Gimme that fucker and a pub car park and I’ll serve him to Chris Trotter on a plate with chips and Watties. And I hate Watties. I like the sauce, but fuck them.
Chris Trotter’s many, many wonderful things but most of all, he’s a proper decent fellow.
Thanks for the post Bomber and I must need my head read for reacting to this crap on LINO’s propaganda page but its hard not to react to the utter crap being peddled by Greg and other members of the snake pit I call his arrogant celebrity respondents.
The fact that he goes by the name Micky Savage on his posts is quite remarkable and apt considering Savage had to be pushed by his colleagues to implement many things the first Labour government implemented.
In other words similar to what we have now with Adern but I don’t see to many LINO MP’s breaking ranks to apply pressure on the leadership.
The biggest problem Adern has, if she’s real and genuine, is to admitting to, then committing to, the truth. Lies can be vague and short on detail. Lies can even be untrue. Lies replace truths with apologies and back-downs. The truth, however, is the truth. There’s no margin for swerving. True is true. Up is Up. Down is down. Partly pregnant? No. Slightly dead? No.
Is a fellow dead. Or alive. Which is the truth? There can be only one answer, I’m afraid, and might be unfortunate for the fellow to hear.
AO/NZ’s economy is agrarian. And from that fertile question, does there sprout a myriad of questions? Or bullshit. And not the good stuff. Which is it? Truths, or lies.
The biggest hurdle Adern has is to tell us the truth. A horrible, terrible, tremendous, wondrous relief for her I’d guarantee. A sudden terrifying shock up the wallet for the multi-billionaire others I’d hope. Aye boys? Remember all those years ago when I wrote about the terrible scratching at the kitchen door? ( Metaphor for you greedy right zingers without Gods gift of an imagination.) A scratching that was getting louder and louder and louder. And that, that scratching was the truth? Clawing it’s way into your shadowed light.
“if she’s real and genuine …”
Judith Collins and Paula Bennett?
Yep real, genuine and classy ladies those two.
sarcasm ill befits you squeaky
She has to win an election and she might not know what is needed. Probable. Thin shit is their meat and veg.
Just better than the cloth brains of the Right.
Oh, for further to the Left.
Thanks for the info. I wondered how well Labour was doing in those most important matters. Just criticised them and their voice TS in your comment section.
Hope you’re well and getting out. It’s what keeps me going.
It’s better to have answers in this instance than to believe that we are correct. I want to know why it’s preferable to be left-wing. I think that being a voter is the most pressing moral question right now. I’ve been left-wing for a long time and I’ve argued with a shit ton of people about this. I don’t know if I can drum up a ton of emotions about this and sound super empathic about being leftwing but I just don’t like the thought of fucking with welfare queens, I don’t like having to step over poor people on my way to work, I don’t like seeing people suffer. I just have a horrible feeling when I see that and I don’t want to be a part of it.
There is an absolute hell no in that I don’t believe that there are any good reasons for material hardship. We can discuss economics and facts and figures and costings I’m down with that but where we have a disagreement is with moral philosophy. That assumes that none of this is the kind shit that anyone objects to. Some of my arguments against corporate retail farming (The Matrix) would include all kinds of vulnerabilities but I wouldn’t oppose it on some strong moral or ethical principle, I would be on other things but as far as the consequences or imagining a hypothetical of what the world would be or absent in the world if everyone suddenly went full ideological left or right or whatever’s is an assumption that no one could possibly know the true results of. There would be unseen and unintended consequences and things that I can’t even imagine.
I’m not just disagreeing with the idea of completely cutting out demand for leftwing widget The Standard or rightwing comrade nut bolts or whatever, that we will see a drastic reduction in supply. That’s nothing special to ideology it’s just a general economic principle.
We can disagree on policy but I don’t think that we can in good faith disagree in the short term if humans suddenly stopped consuming empathy in any regard.
Let’s say that everyone went leftwing tomorrow. It’s not going to happen but anyway it’s an interesting hypothetical. So, everyone goes leftwing tomorrow and there’s a bunch of corporate CEOs in high rises who are waiting to get slaughtered and they exist. So, there could be some issues there if everyone went leftwing and we are definitely not prepared for that. But if we are not breading any more left- or right-wing people into existence then democracy is coming to a close then we do what we can with what we have got.
When the government actually has to intervene or interact with a smaller portion in order to protect a larger portion the government will chuck a few bones like a resource-based economy when looking at the general population because we know that more kiwis live in material hardship and that is kind of leftist idea.
There is much we can agree on.
I used to walk over the homeless outside Supermarket at bottom of Victoria Street Auckland on my way to and from work. John Key and his property speculators created that. The Homeless and the property speculators are JK’s Legacies.
Says it all for me:
I got told to take a break (and petty sure banned for a month) for stating -almost verbatim -what Parekura Horomia said to me after my staff and me from the Colonial Office had boarded one of those Metroliner pencil planes on a flight from Gizzy to Wellington.
Basically most of “us” had to rearrange our seating. We thought it was funny, and no big deal, as did Parakura. Not so, the folks at the standard.
Which is also kind of funny really, because Greg is not one of the most slimmest of specimens you’d encounter on a day out.
I’ve never been back to that virtual space – even though Greg Presland is the best programmer in the entire world and is always at pains to tell us all.
I wish he’d move to Singapore where he could continue to promote his already extensive ego. Not sure his way better half (if they’re still connected) would be better off though.
I wish I could remember who the handle of the TS underling was that told me to take a break, but sure as shit I’m not going to honour them with a visit to find out. I’d rather do a BBC World or Aliexpress client survey
Chris & Martyn attempt to hold this Labour Governments feet to the fire but alas after all this time the nerve endings in their feet are dead. Presland’s complaint is that the spin is not being believed. There is a list of 100 acheivements but many of these are band aids on problems there has been no attempt to fix. Never the less lets hope they can do something substantial in the next year – like save the construction industry (which is facing a 50% downturn) by scaling up State Whare. Otherwise like Chris suggests there are a lot of traditional Labour voters who will think “cant vote for them, cant vote against them” and abstain.
” 11 November 2022 at 10:26 am
FACT:
…Greg Presland has sustained western Auckland from New Lynn to Avondale to Glen Eden to Titirangi to Piha as one of the three strongest Labour areas in the country…
FICTION:
“…I never read The Standard because it’s politically irrelevant…”
Someone ought to ask Bomber how Internet-Mana is going, or how anything he has ever done has actually achieved anything outside the usual suspects and blowhards he hangs out with.
One of the big difference between a lot of the people on this site and the immature shit show of Bradbury’s site is this one has a lot of people who have actually achieved success in the complex real world (dull I know), whereas Bomber and co appear to permanently stuck in an undergraduate common room and have a world view to match.
I like how the Standard removed the right of reply to this bullshit.
They like to kick the victim and not allow them to get up and fight.
You wouldn’t do an “immature shit show” now would you, mosa.
Attacking authors is “beneath” you ain’t it?
Lovely to have your comments oh great sage.
It’s so refreshing to have “robust debate” after the long COVID.
How have you been traveling. Well I hope.
Someone ought to ask Bomber how Internet-Mana is going, or how anything he has ever done has actually achieved anything outside the usual suspects and blowhards he hangs out with.
One of the big difference between a lot of the people on this site and the immature shit show of Bradbury’s site is this one has a lot of people who have actually achieved success in the complex real world (dull I know), whereas Bomber and co appear to permanently stuck in an undergraduate common room and have a world view to match.
Oh come on! This is very funny, but unfair!
Sure, we all have our Matthew Hooton moments, mine was Cunliffe as Labour Leader and combining the Internet Party with MANA, but there have been some successes as well!
Setting up MANA, the 5 Eyes mass surveillance protests, putting together the 2017 Labour strategy that won, the ponytail pulling story that finally ended Key, beating the NZ Police in their attempt to use secret evidence in trials in my Nicky Harger trial, number one political Podcast, highlighting the duplicity of the State Services Commission and of course The Daily Blog which is far more popular than The Standard. Sure, it’s not Greg Presland ‘success’ in West Auckland (I laughed so much writing that line), but I think it’s a tad above undergraduate common room success.
Mosa, it’s pretty clear that your Bombers and your Trotters are true policy wonks. Unlike your Berts and your Mosas, they won’t kiss Jacinda’s feet just because she’s Labour or makes huge promises, or writes nice slogans which Neale Jones writes. Ever heard Bomber get stuck into the Greens for their lack of action? It’s a treat! These guys, rightfully, want good policies and then evidence of real action, let alone success. On top of that, they are realists. They see what they see and comment on it, not fucking window dress it. You seem to have a problem with that?
And, of course, Cunliffe wasn’t wrong, as the greasy ‘sellable’ Labour leadership ever proves.
Are you more popular than The Standard? Surely that would be reflected in the letters section. And then there is Kiwiblog, where complete stupidity rules, hence it’s ‘overwhelming’ popularity.
You don’t need any achievement beyond this social democratic discussion site. Or, the heart of NZ. TS is run, outrageously, by folk dismayed by social democracy in the 70s (and this Labour is very happy about it!). And bullies, to boot, unsurprisingly.