Class and Race: we are still getting things the wrong way round

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It’s impossible to read any media outlet today without an academic report being discussed which points out the disparities in social and economic indicators between Māori and Pasifika on the one hand and Pākehā New Zealanders on the other. These reports don’t usually propose solutions but are appeals to the wider community to pay attention and develop plans to address what are seen as racial injustices.

(Older readers will recall that under Helen Clarke’s Labour government the slogan “closing the gaps”* was used, initially at least, to emphasise the importance of addressing these issues)

The latest such report is from the Auckland University of Technology and says the Covid pandemic has worsened labour market disparities between New Zealand European and Pasifika people.

The research also found that pre-pandemic, Pasifika men earned on average 22.5 percent less than NZ European men when entering employment.

The disparity increased by a further 2.4 percentage points during the pandemic.

It also found that pre-Covid-19, when compared NZ European women, Pasifika women were on average 0.4 percentage points less likely to exit unemployment.

But during Covid-19, the probability gap widened to 1 percentage point, meaning the pandemic deteriorated Pasifika women’s chances of entering employment by 0.6 percentage points.

Lead author of the report, Dr Alexander Plum from the NZWRI, said it was important to tackle the gaps.

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“There must be as a first step awareness of what is going on. Being aware [that] there is this large gap between both populations and [have] the willingness to try to somehow address this gap.

“The other [reason] why it’s so crucial is because it’s affecting young people, it can leave a long term scar on their career and make progression in the future harder.”

It was important to improve access to education, training, building pathways to higher occupations or have active labour market programmes for displaced workers, Plum said.

AUT professor and NZWRI director Gail Pacheco said while the labour market was generally robust during the pandemic, not everyone managed to benefit from it.

“Covid-19 has amplified the prevalence of ethnic disparities in the workforce, but it did not create those disparities in the first place. Therefore, policy needs to not only tackle recent Covid-related disruptions to the workforce but be long-term focused on addressing the entrenched disparities evident before the pandemic hit.”

The research was commissioned by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment

This report didn’t cover Māori but we can be certain similar negative disparities from Covid will be present in the indigenous community.

So why are all these negative disparities for Māori and Pasifika so prevalent across pretty much all social and economic indicators?

The answer is straightforward. For the most part it is because Māori and Pasifika are disproportionately represented in the working class and these negative statistics affect all working class New Zealanders.

There are two important questions which follow and these are the ones we should  grapple with.

Firstly why are Māori and Pasifika disproportionately represented in the working class and secondly why is the focus on “closing the gaps” rather than confronting the problems faced by everyone in the working class?

The first question as it relates to Māori is directly a result of colonisation – pushing Māori off their land and using racism (ideas of European racial superiority) to justify doing so. There are many layers to this but understanding colonisation is the key. Pasifika were a cheap labour force (as they are today in the RSE worker scheme) brought in from the 1960s to make up labour shortages in our factories and then faced state oppression to drive them out through the “dawn raids” etc when the economy declined. It was the demands of capitalist businesses that made these decisions undertaken by successive Labour and National governments (the dawn raids started under Labour in the mid 1970s) rather than any concern for the welfare of Pasifika people. Racism was rife then as it is today.

The second question should lead to us asking why is it that as a country we are happy to have the working class suffer to maintain the deep streams of unearned income for the 1%?

Working class New Zealanders pay the highest proportion of their income in taxes and local body rates and they are consigned to be capitialism’s shock absorbers – the first to lose their jobs when times are tough and the last to be rehired when things improve. As a class, they and their children suffer the worst health, education and employment outcomes compared to the middle class and the ruling elite.

The only changes we are likely to see as a result of this latest academic report, commissioned by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, will be plans to grow the Pasifika middle class so the social and economic disparities related to race disappear while the whole rotten capitalist system gets off the hook.

Uniting to fight all forms of oppression and discrimination – including capitalism – is the only way to a decent world.

 

*We don’t say “close the gaps” any more after Labour abandoned that phrase under Helen Clark in the face of Pākehā backlash roused by Don Brash’s Orewa speech. Labour minister Trevor Mallard – yes the same one – went on a mini crusade to root out any government plans to close the gaps.

75 COMMENTS

  1. Very true John. These are intergenerational problems. I’m in a good economic position today, but I can name several threshold events where someone of my very moderate intelligence and low conscientiousness but born to a family outside the middle class would have been more likely to fall into serious civil debt or even catch a pretty serious criminal charge, and indeed I almost talked myself into that, but due to both socialization and better family resources to support did not.

    We need to change society to do better by the working class, to advance their current position at the expense of corrupt foreigners like Peter Thiel and John Key and give them more opportunities for the future.

      • Agree. Racism hasnt helped and still persists today (but big progress has been made in people’s attitudes over the last 50 years) but it is a lesser issue than capitalism and its effect on the lowest 50% of the population.

        Did anyone catch Luke Orbell at the Youth parliament shenanigans?

        He is angry about race and colonisation but fails to see that 1. Personal responsibility and making your own way is key to success in any society 2. What he sees as colonisation and race is foremost a class issue and all about rogernomics and capitalism.

        Great that the guy is putting himself out there unlike many kids today but sad that he has been encouraged to see NZs ills as all about race rather than class.

        • 100% agree Fantail.

          My fear and belief is there will be nothing done to rectify inequality. I naively believed Labour would.

          I think focusing on race is having a problematic effect on NZ. I think a back lash is coming.

  2. Thanks John. The fact that this is a class issue cannot be overstated. There is racism aplenty but that is not directly a reason for economic
    outcomes. The working poor are being shafted and ignored in NZ.
    The economy is bigger than racism and I think it would be impossible to have racist economic policy per se unless there was actual apartheid policy to facilitate it. We are a very inter-racial population.
    A low income is directly related to lack of childhood opportunity and education outcomes, mixed with meeting some good people and a sprinkle of luck. Even luck goes both ways.
    However, good government policy to provide opportunities for housing and good employment conditions goes a long way to help people rise up from hardship.
    I know for myself that my family were scratching the bottom of the barrel even though my parents had a state house. I hate to think what the alternative would have been so can empathise with how bad it can be for families today.
    Why don’t we see JA on TV visiting families living in poverty and explaining to them how she will improve their lives? She has an absolute majority parliament and all Labour have done is throw money around indiscriminately when it should have been targeted more usefully instead of fuelling the inflation we now have.

  3. The groups you are talking about have 30-40% truancy rates and a high percentage are functionally illiterate .
    You’re right that it’s not racial , it’s poverty but the answer is education. They have to go to school!
    Anything else is a band aid

    • Yes, exactly. There will always be jobs that are low waged because of the job compared to other jobs. To have an opportunity to lift yourseld into the other jobs, you need education. The government should be prioritising assisting Maori and Pasifika families to get their children learning. They should be instilled with pride that their children are learning. It will take some generations for a turnaround….

    • Well said Tribal Scot.
      I guess the big question is how do we get them to school.
      Under Labour truancy has ballooned which is probably not their fault as much as an increase in the trend.

    • I disagree about the school thing.
      School never worked for me and doesn’t work for lots of kids.

      There should be far more formal diverse ways for kids to learn.

      Lots of these kids need one on one attention and that is the way they would learn to read which is a vital link for life.

      • If only there was someone that could provide one on one attention….. Someone like a mother or father springs to mind. I wasn’t great at school either, I left with no formal qualifications but my parents read a lot just like I do and my own children so i ended up doing ok, started work at 16. But I still went to school most if the time, like 90%. Some kids not doing well at school doesn’t explain the huge number not going regularly these days. It’s a major problem.

      • sorry micheal over the last 50yrs we’ve tried any number of educational experiments…but the middle class still send their kids to grammar schools (call em academies if you like but they’re grammar schools) ever wonder why?

        and yes a minority of kids don’t do well in schools but the MAJORITY do any mention of separate institutions is spat upon (largely by those who’s kids are in ‘good’ schools) but maybe the europian intellectual/vocational educational paths are not a bad thing.

        • time they think outside the square and maybe give the kids more hands on approach. stop pushing sexuality and trans etc etc into everyones faces. and relax a bit more. shrink the classes. get the leaders of the country to do things the old ways. get rid of nation and labour and bring something new in. its a shame that cant work.lot of stuff have been brought to light.. remind people what labour had promised on live tv and now rules.;things have changed and and they trying to pretending things werent said.. when they have it in plain site. . others are trying to pretending everything’s ok when its not. this country is a complete mess. time for them to work for the people again.

    • like other neo-lib societies we have systematically destroyed our education system…mass education was never truly altruistic, industrial workers had to be able to read and understand a manual….data entry requires no such skills hence education is devalued.

      • Agree. And what we are seeing currently is the government going through the motions in education as it has been for ten or more years.

    • Well said and today’s figures on the numbers that are leaving school with no qualifications is frightening.. I would say a large percentage were Maori and Pacifica. We need to somehow break the cycle and if it takes a bribe to do it then let’s do it .
      $3000 thousand for your child’s full attendance at school for the year and a payment to the child for every NCEA qualification.
      This would work out cheaper than the $100000 a year to keep them in prison

    • You might want to check out the phonomen of “kiwi suspensions”, a process where troublesome (and often traumatised) children are quietly banished from education. Though illegal, they’re relatively common, and the Ministry of Education are well aware of it. Indeed, if their behaviors anything to go by, they agree. The vast majority of the victims are working class, of all races and both genders.

      • ernie yes it’s a problem but why should the kids who want to learn have their education spoilt by the few….maybe special units for the ‘problem kids’ what am I saying that will require govt investment silly me.

  4. Tapu subjects John but necessary to keep challenging TDB readers to find a different narrative then the constant barrage of anti-Maori sentiments that are prevalent even on this left-wing media site. The 3 Waters & Co-governance are the hot topic today for anti-Maori sentiment IMO the Labour govt haven’t helped these issues either but overall this isn’t new to Maori as some TDB readers would have you believe. Maori assumed special privilege’s according to greedy pakeha (Land League) date back even before the TOW was signed. I also want to specifically highlight my experience with the PI community in SA in late 70s early 80s, right through and more so through the 1990s witnessed a wider harboring of Anti-Maori sentiments even though some Maori quarters like the Māori student activist group, Nga Tamatoa (the young warriors), worked alongside the Polynesian Panthers in Auckland to highlight the plight of the racist policies of the New Zealand Govts. Do I understand or know where this anti-Maori in the PI community comes from? I’m no sociologist but maybe the PI community adopted mainstream pakeha values and beliefs to fit in to New Zealand society? Maybe there were a lot of Maori outwardly resentful of PI coming to compete for low wage work but there was a lot of work around then so I don’t believe that’s was the case nor did I witness such behavior towards our Pasifika whanau. Just my thoughts

    • I’m going to say something controversial so I hope I dont offend too much as that’s not my intent. But my observation on your final comments are as follows:

      Maori and Pasifica acceptance issues. I have long held the view that probably because of colonisation or pakeha land issues, Maori has traditionally been anti immigration and have been for want of a better word, somewhat discriminating towards immigrants.

      Over the last thirty five years, there was a growing chasm between Pacifica and Maori which I found difficult to understand because as a child growing up in Maori predominant communities, prior to that time, there were numerous Cook Island Maori kids in the community who I never even knew were not NZ Maori until decades later. So the gap between Maori and Pacifica (or at least Cook Island Maori) wasnt traditionally there in my experience

      Whether the numbers increased particularly in Auckland and Wellington in the 70’s and 80’s caused competition for jobs or perhaps a cultural divide, I dont know but the communities definitely appeared to grow apart, maybe just because of growing Maori resentment to all immigration.

      For some years now I have been beating the drum for Pacifica as the whole bicultural thing has left them out in the cold when many of the issues, particularly those relating to health and poverty are identical. I may be cynical and maybe it is merely a greater identification with Pacifica by Maori but I think the recent coming together of Maori and Pacifica ‘in the same breath’ is politically driven.

      Ardern brought gang member votes or so its insinuated and when you think about it, its pretty smart. There’s a large group of disenfranchised never voters who can be mobilised to come out for your side.

      Where else can you find more votes in a community that maybe doesnt vote as much but is facing similar issues? Well, 10% of the population is Pasifica so maybe its in your interests (Labour, the Maori Caucus?) to stop treating them as a hidden and separate problem and start drawing them in as a subset of our own cause. By simultaneously ‘othering’ the PI community and being inclusive towards it, this can be achieved. Divide and rule.

      Again, I dont mean to offend and maybe the changes are simply down to new ideas around ‘tibes’ in an identarian sense but I certainly can see an agenda in a political sense.

  5. “The first question as it relates to Māori is directly a result of colonisation – pushing Māori off their land and using racism (ideas of European racial superiority) to justify doing so”

    Was it racism when the Romans colonised what is now know as Britain?

    Was it racism when Icelandic Vikings plundered Ireland and took away plenty of Irish folk as slaves?

    Was it racism when the ottoman empire tried to take over Europe and tried to enslave europeans?

    Was it racism when the Moors invaded Spain?

    So easy to play the white supremacist race card but really what we are describing are themes repeated throughout history by many many different races and racism wasn’t the driving force, it was about exploration, conquest and control.

    Everyone’s been doing it even the Maori’s yet only the Europeans seem to be held to account!

    As for the wage gap issue its pretty simple: if you don’t get an education or learn a decent trade your chances of earning decent money are severely restricted, It isn’t about race. I dropped out of school with no quals. Was it due to racism No of course not, I just hated school!

    We need self responsibility. If you’re lazy, uneducated or whatever don’t complain that you aren’t making a good crust

    • Says XstraightXedgeX ‘Everyone’s been doing it even the Maori’s yet only the Europeans seem to be held to account!’ Q: Who was Maori colonizing? And please don’t give me a dumb answer like the Moriori! To somehow justify your position and opinion for European colonization, which covered most of the globe and enslaved millions you’ve created a strawman fallacy scenario! Why are you so threaten of facts? Its history and has relevance that has shaped our country today.

      Social scientists through research based evidence understand racism as a multidimensional and highly adaptive system—a system that ensures an unequal distribution of resources between racial groups, which continued for over a century that had devastating consequences which is reflected today.

      In the dominant position, pakeha are almost always racially comfortable and thus have developed unchallenged expectations to remain so however this is becoming more untenable as the inclusion of multiculturalism domestically the decline in western powers globally see a multipolar world revitalized east the rise of China as the next superpower and the renaissance of indigenous populations globally.

      • Why should anyone be racially uncomfortable?

        That only seems to happen when activism abounds or there is biculturalism or similar.

        If you have ever lived in a truly multi cultural city you will see that the majority of people are colour blind or culture blind People only become uncomfortable when they are made to feel uncomfortable because of their race or culture.

        In multi cultural cities particularly those that dont have culturally aligned ghettos (for want of a better word) people tend to share on some level, a common goal or experience and work towards it rather than focusing on othering. This is why so many NZers are anti Co Governance. We think bi culturalism is hugely divisive and not taking us forward as a country. It is othering and limiting our shared experiences and common goals.

        • Bi-Culturalism has shaped NZ today, most NZers speak English even most Maori can’t understand nor speak their indigenous tongue because of NZ Bi-Culturalism- Our education system is English, our Parliament is Westminster its has a Majority of English speaking people that have genetic links to the British Isle, our allegiance and historic links is to the English Monarchy, firstly let just get that point out of the way.

          And ‘otherings’ is always used when characterizing Maori issues of course you’d disagree, however there is many examples of this being the case. Which brings our conversation to ‘race’ historically cannot be denied that the disenfranchise of Maori has a legacy that last for many many generations and its reflected today.

          Is it apocalyptical catastrophe in the scheme of things to suggest that things haven’t gotten better as time’s progressed? Of course we’ve matured as a nation and started to incrementally accept Multi-culturalism “Including Maori” into the Bi-Cultural system. You see there are many instances of interpreting slogans then the prevailing narrative that misrepresents the realities of the facts.

          Racial Uncomfortable is when European’s (Pakeha) have not had to build tolerance for racial discomfort and thus when racial discomfort arises, Pakeha typically respond as if something is “wrong,” and blame the person or event that triggered the discomfort (usually a person of color). This blame results in a socially-sanctioned array of responses towards the perceived source of the discomfort, including: penalization; retaliation; isolation and refusal to continue engagement. Since racism is necessarily uncomfortable in that it is oppressive, Pakeha insistence on racial comfort guarantees racism will not be faced except in the most superficial of ways.

          • @Stephen

            Perfect example of Woke rhetorical sophistry. The first 3 paragraphs may find broad agreement with the average leftist and this is one reason why many cannot see the woke cuckoo in the progressive nest.

            However the last paragraph is a reformulation of DiAngelo’s white fragility argument. In effect this is you can make people feel guilt or shame because of their racial identity and they may feel uncomfortable or complain (a normal human reaction). However IF they are white, then any objection is illegitimate. This is because they are privileged and their privilege makes them weak.

            This only makes a vague kind of sense if all white people are urban, middle class university educated and all minority groups are not, which of course is far from the case.
            This is racism (traditional definition) packaged in flowery academic language to make it socially acceptable. However it is usually propagated by people who are urban, middle class university educated and white often as a kind of narcissistic penitence.

            Serious question do you think Barack Obama’s daughters have more or less privilege than 80% of the white men on the planet?
            They have 2 dimensions of oppression (black and female) while all white men have 2 dimensions of privilege.

      • “Who was Maori colonizing?”
        Are you saying Iwi didn’t conquer and occupy other Iwi lands? Or does it only matter when the occupying power is a different race?

        “To somehow justify your position and opinion for European colonization, which covered most of the globe and enslaved millions”

        I don’t think there is any attempt to justify European colonisation just point out that the Europeans are far from unique in colonising and enslaving. Fun fact, far more Africans were sold into slavery in Arabia than the Atlantic slave trade and African and European slaves were being sold into slavery in the Ottoman Empire decades Britain put an end to the Atlantic slave trade and the Royal Navy lost 40,000 seaman enforcing its abolition. This is not an attempt the justify the Atlantic slave trade, it’s called context and nuance.

        “Social scientists through research based evidence understand racism as a multidimensional and highly adaptive system”
        No this is a politicised social science that pushes a neo-marxist cultural conflict theory to justify a narrow identity based equity politics that typically benefits the cultural and economic elite and does nothing for the people it claims to support.
        If it were a science based anything remotely empirical rather than satisfying narratives it wouldn’t be so easy to spoof it’s academic publications.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVk9a5Jcd1k

        “In the dominant position, pakeha are almost always racially comfortable”
        How comfortable do you think a homeless white man is in contrast to say a university educated middle class maori? Parliament is highly representative of minority groups what does that say about racial power dynamics (as opposed to class dynamics)

        “this is becoming more untenable as the inclusion of multiculturalism domestically”
        What is it about NZ and other western societies that allow multiculturalism to develop.
        Given how racially oppressive you think western societies are, no doubt there are a multitude of other nations and cultures that embrace multiculturalism, could you mention a few?

        “the rise of China as the next superpower and the renaissance of indigenous populations globally.”
        Really? any comment on China’s energy security, supply chains, demographics and other regional military alliances and capabilities?

        • ‘tui’ hahahaha hit a raw nerve bud? and you’re really slumping to a whole new level of dumbness with your strawman fallacy scenario and detoured way of track of what the article is about. Its notable that the use of the word ‘Woke’ which you’ve frequently employ to characterize people negatively whom you disagree with, and I being consciously aware the teachings of academics with ground breaking research like ‘Robin De Angelo’ whom has her critics like many professions has your attitude & defensive behaviors catalogue to a tee.

          Also conflating Saudi Arabia, middle Eastern Ottoman empire slavery against Maori slavery suggest that you are historically illiterate when discussing New Zealand and probably world history. And just a note that the Europeans that the Ottoman empire enslaved were Europeans that were going to Africa to enslave Africans true story.
          http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/

          China energy is challenging but you’d have to be a fool to believe that 1.3 billion population that has human capital and possess most rare earth minerals won’t one day become a superpower thanks in part to our liberal democracies. Multipolarity is inevitable and European exceptionalism is ova. Ukraine is the death bed for Europe, and the rise of the east is already here guess where the energy is flowing?????

          • “Its notable that the use of the word ‘Woke’ which you’ve frequently employ to characterize people negatively whom you disagree with”

            Nope, I use woke to characterize an ideology that can be thought of as the applied or street version of the various schools of Critical Theory which are basically a form of neo-marxism using post-modern tools. It’s only “critical” in the sense of critical consciousness (seeing the world through the lens of a cultural version of conflict theory), nothing to do with critical thinking and not a theory in the scientific sense.
            —–
            “the teachings of academics with ground breaking research”

            You mean like Kendi who cannot define racism?
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyNBEM9NXO0
            —–
            “and I being consciously aware the teachings of academics with ground breaking research like ‘Robin De Angelo’ ”

            You sound like a elitist self aggrandizing ass, hows that working out for you?
            —–
            “‘Robin De Angelo’ whom has her critics like many professions has your attitude & defensive behaviors catalogue to a tee. ”

            Nope she describes entirely predictable human reactions but in the case of white people frames them as illegitimate. In her terms no response to her teachings is valid except unquestioning acceptance. This is not critical thinking, this is a cult dynamic. She is a textbook case of religiosity and incredibly racist. A trait she has monetized to great effect among elite woke leftists by projecting her racism onto every white person on the planet.
            —–
            “Also conflating Saudi Arabia, middle Eastern Ottoman empire slavery against Maori slavery suggest that you are historically illiterate when discussing New Zealand and probably world history. ”

            Nope I was responding to this comment by you

            “To somehow justify your position and opinion for European colonization, which covered most of the globe and enslaved millions”

            YOU made the context global so my response is in context
            —–
            “And just a note that the Europeans that the Ottoman empire enslaved were Europeans that were going to Africa to enslave Africans true story.”

            I sure some were but slavers operated throughout Europe, there are first hand account of slaver raids on coastal villages as far out as Iceland. These were people who ended up in the Ottoman slave markets.
            —–
            We’ll have to agree to disagree on China, in the meantime now i have responded to each of your points, why don’t you try responding to some of mine in earlier comments substantively rather than intellectual peacocking?

            • ‘Nope, I use woke to characterize an ideology that can be thought of as the applied or street version of the various schools of Critical Theory which are basically a form of neo-marxism using post-modern tools.’

              More neoconservative gaslighting BS right of the lips of Jordan Peterson right-wing troupes who should stick to writing books on teaching young white boys how to clean their rooms.

              Critical Race theory is academics using factual historic recordings and studying it!! Why are you so threaten by academics studying their profession? Why don’t you write an academic thesis have it peer-reviewed to challenge her work? Robin De Angelo work has been peer-reviewed globally accepted why hasn’t your venerated Idols for instance, Jordan Peterson, Bret Weinstein and his wife, Thomas Sowell, Candace Owens, John McWhorter write an academic thesis which requires evidence and peer-reviewed by academics globally challenging her work? Because they can’t instead they go on Joe Rogan or make their own podcast denouncing her work and make accusations. Just like you’re doing right now!!

              So you make claims that the Ottoman empire travelled to Europe to systematically enslave Europeans? This is the type of low gutter trash conversations strawman BS gaslighters’ like yourself grasp at. China is going to be the next super-power only a fool would deny this reality.

              • What a beautifully zealous response, to any perceived threat to your cherished ideology, high priests and priestesses.

                How you construe my position which is clearly a leftist and class orientated as neoconservative is hilarious as is your apparent ignorance of the philosophical roots of the Critical Theory schools.

                As for my so called idols I don’t recall mentioning any that’s a metric s*it ton or projection and false attribution.

                As to your claims to authority due to academic rigor, I’m afraid that kind of goes out of the window when social sciences become politicized. It’s a lot of holier than thou grandstanding which includes failing to address substance that contradicts the ideology. Like you are doing right now infact 🙂
                ——-
                #1
                “So you make claims that the Ottoman empire travelled to Europe to systematically enslave Europeans”
                ——
                Nope I did not what I did say was

                “slavers operated throughout Europe, there are first hand account of slaver raids on coastal villages as far out as Iceland.”

                The slaver ships that did this were more akin to pirates and a mix of nationalities.
                I DID said that the people they kidnapped were sold into slavery in the Ottoman empire.

                The original point if you recall was that more slaves were sold into Arabia that the Atlantic slave trade and both Africans and Eurpoeans were enslaved in the Ottoman Empire decades after slavery was abolished in Britain and the Royal Navy was actively putting an end to it.

                This was in response to your comment that “To somehow justify your position and opinion for European colonization, which covered most of the globe and enslaved millions”

                As if the European colonization (which I am absolutely not justifying) was somehow a unique evil, rather than a common practice among powerful tribes nations and empires
                What is unusual about western history is arriving at the consensus that slavery is wrong.

                —-
                #2
                “This is the type of low gutter trash conversations strawman BS gaslighters’ like yourself grasp at.”
                —-
                That reminds me of what someone said earlier

                “hahahaha hit a raw nerve bud?”

                Oh! it was you Stephen, you’re really not that bright are you and possibly a little angry.

                Try again Stephen i’m looking forward to your next attempt the selectively (rather than comprehensively) refute my comments without actually reading them properly and simultaneously assigning me positions or beliefs I don’t hold.

                Go on do your best luv xxx

                • ‘Try again Stephen i’m looking forward to your next attempt the selectively (rather than comprehensively) refute my comments without actually reading them properly and simultaneously assigning me positions or beliefs I don’t hold’.

                  Again making sweeping accusation and contradictions using neoconservative word salad BS that absolutely meaningless!!

                  Social science and politics go hand in hand how thick are you? Why not write a thesis debunking Robin De Angelo findings? Get it peer-reviewed. Her work is Ubiquitous in academia and deservedly. Tui your allowed an opinion but don’t dare call it facts. Talking about being selective chump

                  Looking forward to witnessing your “White Fragility”

                  • —-
                    “Again making sweeping accusation and contradictions using neoconservative word salad BS that absolutely meaningless!!”

                    Try addressing my points rather than using emotional outburst as argumentation.
                    —–
                    “Social science and politics go hand in hand how thick are you?”

                    Nope it is in Critical Theory (which sees the world in very specific ways) where political action is made an inseparable imperative.
                    —-
                    “Why not write a thesis debunking Robin De Angelo findings?”

                    Sadly I do not have time, but I like to point out contractions and lack of academic rigor. There are plenty of others doing that. Such as Colman Hughes and Wesley Yang who you no doubt think are alt right nazis.
                    —–
                    I noticed you stopped referencing the slave trade in the Ottoman Empire, does that mean you have nothing left?

                • ‘Tui’ Put up or shut up? Write a thesis debunking ‘Robin De Angelo’ ground breaking work “White Fragility” Tui doesn’t realize that he/She falls exactly into categories of what De Angelo been researching with huge amount of evidence thanks in part to racial supremacy particularly European exceptionalism through colonization. ‘Tui’ doesn’t like facts ‘Tui’ believes that Critical Race Theory is a racist attempt by POC to demonize whites. Sad really!!

                  • @Stephen

                    Nope I think CRT and other schools of critical theory especially in their marriage of convenience with neoliberal corporatism are an attempt to divide and conquer. To set the multiracial working class against one another.

                    To divert the progressive attention and energy towards a kind of anti-politics where advancing anyone who is not white-cis-straight-male feels highly progressive but fails to address underlying systems of neoliberal power.

                    It is the perfect cover for cultural and economic elites post-occupy wall street.
                    —–
                    “Sad really!!”
                    You sound like a Donald Trump tweet

                    • Oh man more conspiracy BS. I stop reading your shit long ago ‘tui’ like I said if you’re against CRT & Robin De Angelo then write a thesis have peer-reviewed and publish it instead of moaning and making all kinds of allegations. Put up or STFU!!

  6. And to all those white folk of NZ out there who bemoan white settlers who came to NZ and took Maori land (hello John) how many of you are actively seeking to give whatever YOU have back to the Maori? Or if you feel so bad why don’t you go back to Europe?

    Or are you just virtue signalling like all the celebs who said they would leave the US when Trump was elected.

    Your gestures are weak and empty.

    Do you think a proud Maori warrior would respect such snivelling and grovelling wrapped up in white guilt?

    • Maori are getting/have got their land back in the Treaty settlements. NZ needs to be proud of that. Know for a fact, my spouse now co-owns some pretty valuable land with a small number from his tribe. Of course its not a perfect situation. But compensation for any sort of loss can never truly magic the loss away.
      I think while there is rascism in NZ thee is also a lot of non racism. Most Kiwis interested in giving a person a fair go and taking people as we find them. And lets face it, lots of inter marriage.

      Initially in the early 1800s relationships between Maori and European were good. As Jamie Belich said to do with guns and sex. Trade. Maori relied on and wanted muskets. The musket wars where various tribes through the country fought each other killed many, many more people than the wars between Maori and Pakeha. They fought each other over land.
      I don’t think we will return to those egalaterian days I grew up in (the 60s). I have to say though our family would have been regarded as poor on todays standards. But we had food and a home and good education and healthcare. Other did have much more than us and our neighbourhood was a great community

      • “Maori are getting/have got their land back in the Treaty settlements. NZ needs to be proud of that.”
        I like your enthusiasm but have you check statistics on poverty related issues within the Maori communities? And the TOW settlements won’t do anything to help Maori ‘close the gaps’ because it wasn’t a mechanism designed for such a purpose. Of course there is a lot of poor non-Maori that need help and get it which is expected.

        The inference of the Musket wars and to historically suggest that more Maori lost their lives during these conflicts than the NZ Wars without a shred of evidence is indicative of the type of narrative you’re portraying. Remembering that the official counting when the Musket wars ravaged these lands from 1807 onwards to 1830s were not reliable and historic records prove that figures suggested and how they were gathered cannot be relied upon as facts. Finally the ‘Egalitarian myth’ always makes me giggle more so the irony to suggest everyone was treated fairly regardless of their race, social status, etc..

        http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/

        • @Stephen
          “Of course there is a lot of poor non-Maori that need help and get it which is expected.”

          No they don’t which is kind of Martyn’s article is all about

          “Finally the ‘Egalitarian myth’ always makes me giggle more so the irony to suggest everyone was treated fairly regardless of their race, social status, etc..”

          I don’t think anyone is arguing that was even an ideal to aspire to until the last few decades. Amusing to me is the Wokist insistence of relying on social history over a hundred years past as evidence of contemporary racism rather than as a historical contributor to poverty which perpetuates in class dynamics even as society becames more racially egalitarian.

          • tui July 31, 2022 at 8:57 am
            @Stephen
            “Of course there is a lot of poor non-Maori that need help and get it which is expected.”

            No they don’t which is kind of Martyn’s article is all about???
            Tui calm down ‘your whiteness’! I mean ‘your Wokeness’! is making you slightly delusional. So you reckon Martyn said that poor non-Maori don’t get help example.. food parcels, housing accommodation, state housing, legal aid, Winz benefit, homeless shelter,??? etc… Please let me know if I’ve missed anything?

            I gather that you’re a Pakeha NZ that believes that you’re the victims of apparent Maori privilege? ‘Fun-Facts’ Before the Treaty of Waitangi was signed European settlers (Pakeha) always insisted that Maori had special privileges mainly because Maori began refusing to sell pakeha more land. Now the myth of Maori special treatment permeates the NZ pakeha psyche in more ways than one.

            I have no doubt that there are a lot of poor pakeha in our country but Maori didn’t make them poor IMO its the capitalist system if you want anything to blame. I recently picked up a Pakeha friend that was on the streets in CHCH he has schizophrenia and is problematic still. I’m poor but I took my saving of $1000 and drove from Hastings to Wellington, Picton, ChCh, back. Have you done something patriotic for your fellow New Zealander? Get back to me when you have OK?

            • Tui calm down ‘your whiteness’! I mean ‘your Wokeness’! is making you slightly delusional.

              That is curious could you please elaborate on what you define as ‘whiteness’. Is this some kind of racial metaphysics?
              —–
              “So you reckon Martyn said that poor non-Maori don’t get help.”

              Nope I’m reckoning that Martyn is saying the the multiracial working class are ALL getting screwed over. I was rebutting your apparent assertion that non-Maori that need help get it while Maori don’t.
              —–
              “I gather that you’re a Pakeha NZ that believes that you’re the victims of apparent Maori privilege?”

              Nope and Nope. In intersectional terms I have two dimensions of oppression maybe more. How does that fit with your preconceived notions of my “positionality” and what I believe?
              —–
              “Now the myth of Maori special treatment permeates the NZ pakeha psyche in more ways than one.”

              I don’t think Maori get special treatment I think cultural and political elites (Pakeha and Maori) leverage of the plight of working class Maori to advance their own power and influence while doing nothing for the majority of Maori. It’s analogous to leveraging of the murder of George Floyd to get more middle class blacks into ivy League Universities while doing nothing for inner city blacks.

              Your wonderful sophisticated woke ideology and the “the teachings of academics with ground breaking research” is facilitating this.
              —–
              I have no doubt that there are a lot of poor pakeha in our country but Maori didn’t make them poor

              I never said and don’t believe they did
              —–
              IMO its the capitalist system if you want anything to blame.

              I agree, however see my earlier comment about what your woke ideology is facilitating.
              —-
              “I’m poor but I took my saving of $1000 and drove from Hastings to Wellington, Picton, ChCh, back.”

              You wokesters love to parade your virtue around don’t you.
              —-
              “Have you done something patriotic for your fellow New Zealander?”

              Yes I have and do but don’t feel the need to elaborate in the comments section of a public blog
              —-
              “Get back to me when you have OK?”

              Thank you for that pretentious sign off to a supercilious comment that largely mischaracterises what I believe. I hope to have gotten back to you sufficiently m’lard.

              • Buhahahaha Tui you explanations are superficial and frankly BS. WOKE is used to characterize myself whom have a different opinion then yours! Awesome logic TUI you’re intelligence is exceptional?????

                ‘It’s analogous to leveraging of the murder of George Floyd to get more middle class blacks into ivy League Universities while doing nothing for inner city blacks’.
                Go any proof????? And please no opinionated piece from a neocon site.

                ‘Your wonderful sophisticated woke ideology and the “the teachings of academics with ground breaking research” is facilitating this’.
                A: Exactly what is it facilitating and what does that mean in your opinion?

                You wokesters love to parade your virtue around don’t you.
                A: $1000 is a hell of a lot of money for a poor person so for me to mention it is very significant as that took me 18 months to save. I don’t usually skite but mentioning this is important in this conversation to highlight my POV and the steps I take to reduce racial stereotypes which is part of this conversation but not in ‘Tui’ world everybody woke that he/she disagrees with.

                White Fragility written by Robin De Angelo work is ground breaking its establish racist ideologues and behaviors that is evidence backed. Tui is just a TDB subscriber very opinionated with little evidence but to characterizes negatively individuals he/she disagrees with.

                Bret Weinstein spews the same troupe you’re spewing. He makes accusations about Robin De Angelo and funny enough seem to have anti-China sentiments on his Youtube sites. Sound ideologically similar to you Tui?

                • Once again largely bluster and little substance. Let’s address what selective and minimal substance you attempt
                  —–
                  “Tui you explanations are superficial and frankly BS.”

                  Fine, refute everything I have said on this comments section point by point as I have done to you.
                  —–
                  “WOKE is used to characterize myself whom have a different opinion then yours! Awesome logic TUI you’re intelligence is exceptional”

                  You don’t know the philosophical roots of your own belief system. Soooo by your logic The KKK (who I disagree with) are Woke? Or are you saying that Woke can only be used to describe a single person, and that is you?
                  —–
                  “Go any proof????? And please no opinionated piece from a neocon site. ”

                  One easy example (of many) is the “Defund the Police” movement, beloved by Ivy League elites but not by inner city communities who experience the brunt of crime. Poll after poll showed they want better policing not less.
                  —-
                  “Exactly what is it facilitating and what does that mean in your opinion?”

                  Broadly speaking it is facilitating cultural and economic elites within the neoliberal system.
                  —–
                  “$1000 is a hell of a lot of money for a poor person ”

                  Yes it is good for you
                  —–
                  “to highlight my POV and the steps I take to reduce racial stereotypes”

                  You stated your friend was Pakeha, so how does your action reduce racial stereotyping in intersectional terms as in that model friend is “racially privileged”?

                  Your actions could be construed as reducing mental health stereotypes. However you made your point to take the moral high ground and belittle me as if that advances a philosophical discussion. At best you seem to be saying “because I did a good thing I am philosophically correct”.
                  —–
                  “Tui is just a TDB subscriber very opinionated with little evidence but to characterizes negatively individuals he/she disagrees with.”

                  That would be why I have substantively refuted every point you have made while you resort to name calling and virtue signalling.
                  —–
                  “Bret Weinstein spews the same troupe you’re spewing”

                  Thanks for the reference I’ll look him up 🙂
                  ——
                  “funny enough seem to have anti-China sentiments”

                  I have anti-CCP sentiments. I distinguish between the CCP and Chinese people (it’s called nuance). I also have anti-US-corporatism opinions, people are complex and difficult to place in a boxes are they not?
                  ——
                  Ok try again Stephen I cannot promise I’ll keep up with this thread but I’m sure we will bump into each other on other posts xxx

                  • ‘Tui’ Contradictions & assumptions sprinkled with the odd lie, ditto chump. All you’ve highlighted is your frailness and a weak attempt to characterize myself as ‘WOKE’ It has become a common term of derision among some who oppose movements ie.. BLM & Mana Motuhake, Tinorangatiratanga it is associated with, or believe the issues are exaggerated. It is sometimes used to mock or infantilise supporters of those movements. Sounds like name calling to me ‘Tui’
                    ‘That would be why I have substantively refuted every point you have made while you resort to name calling and virtue signaling.’

                    More BS Tui you’ haven’t refuted every point mentioned stop talking shit you only refuted points to suite your BS narrative.
                    ‘You stated your friend was Pakeha, so how does your action reduce racial stereotyping in intersectional terms as in that model friend is “racially privileged”?’
                    More word salad neocon trash!! Sure my friend is a pakeha, nothing wrong with pointing that out which has nothing to do with stereotype or ‘racially privileging’ I was telling the story of my Pakeha friend which is relevant to mention cause you’re acknowledging who he is not grasp the deluded NZ tall poppy syndrome
                    ‘I have anti-CCP sentiments. I distinguish between the CCP and Chinese people’
                    I mentioned China becoming the next Superpower a point you claimed to substantively refuted? More BS Tui

    • XXX the treaty settlements/payouts relate to the Crown taking Māori land despite signing a treaty that afforded Māori the same rights as any other citizen. Unless there are some rare exceptions it is not about individual settlers ( possibly white folk) taking land. Clearly race is a hang up for you so how about we say the Crown acted like a common thief and took land from locals ( who just happened to always be Māori), after signing a treaty.

      • I agree Crown acted like a common theif. And what I am saying is my spouse who is Maori (which may be some evidence that doesn’t support your claim that “race is a hang up for me”) is that the Treaty Settlements do something to ameriolate this craven theift. As I said, it is not a perfect situation. Victims of crime rarely get true justice as it cannot take away the offence that was committed. So if you think about murder, it may be of comfort to the love ones that someone is put behind bars for a long time, but it will never bring their love one back.

        BTW I am thrilled my spouse is being compensated in this way. None of it will come my way, but that is only right and proper.

  7. You are correct the issue is class not race.

    Essential workers often on minimum wage kept the elite class fed and alive- while risking their own health- through covid while their betters worked from home and came up increasing complex ways of making business and workers lives more difficult.
    When they protested, they were “rivers of filth” or “dumb lives matter”.

    It’s not “we” who are getting it the wrong way around, it’s the insane identity politics cadre in charge who are fracturing our country by race while causing massive inequality with their house price inflation policies over covid.

    • Yes agree the current Labour Government fracturing our country by race while causing massive inequality.
      Labour Government?
      New Zealand is in reverse gear under this hopeless don’t know what to do Labour Government shambles the evidence there for all to see.
      Gosh I despair.

  8. Pakeha make up the majority of the wealthy.( Why do media not mention this, as it skews the stats)
    So to improve the stats they can make more Maori and Pacifica wealthy. Or disadvantage poor pakeha more. Both would make the equity stats look better. Glaringly state media last few years never mention poor pakeha.

    • @Rik spot on, the only way identitarianism works is to ignore class politics and therefore ignore the white working class. As has been pointed out in the UK where white working class boys have the worst educational and social outcomes. Inconveniences like this shatter the intersectional model and therefore threatens the power and influence of far too many politicians, academics, activists and other middle class virtue signallers.

      A backlash against grievance based equity politics is coming. My fear is that it will not be a return to the ideals of egalitarianism and genuine progressivism but an over swing of the pendulum to some mirror image of wokism on the right. The baby will be thrown out with the bathwater and the bath will be sold for scrap making genuinely progressive politics unpalatable for a generation.

      • So in ‘Tui’ myopic world the White working class in New Zealand is going to turn on Maori working & non working class and aren’t going back to this assume egalitarian life style that they apparently once enjoyed??????

        One word “White Supremacy”

        What about the non-white working class do they get a say in your assumed democracy?

        You make claims of inclusiveness but forget to mention non-white working people. Something fishy going on here Tui sounds a bit one-sided and prejudice towards POC.

        • @Stephen despite your bad faith interpretations and repeated attempts to assign me positions I do not hold (convenient strawman),
          you know exactly what I believe as I stated in reply to you above.

          “I don’t think Maori get special treatment. I think cultural and political elites (Pakeha and Maori) leverage of the plight of working class Maori to advance their own power and influence while doing nothing for the majority of Maori.”

          Explain how that equates to “white supremacy”. It seems you have a DiAngelo shaped hammer and everything looks like a nail.

          Try again Stephen luv.

        • @Stephen
          To be clear I think cultural and political elites (Pakeha and Maori) leverage of the plight of working class Maori to advance their own power and influence while doing nothing for the majority of Maori.
          Emphasizing a race-based worldview (as opposed to emphasizing a class based one) can only be maintained if white working class are also largely invisible.

          This is the gift of intersectionality to neoliberalism. A narrow identity based equity politics which makes it incredibly easy to game the system. This results in a kind of anti-politics where advancing anyone who is not white, cis, straight, or male feels progressive but does not challenge underlying neoliberal power.

          The political and business class are increasingly diverse (a good thing) yet representation and conditions for the working class in society has declined markedly. As one example UK working class wages are lower in real terms than 30-40 years ago and there is about 1/10 the proportion of working class MPs in Labour compared to 100 years ago. Party MPs has never been so diverse and diversity is a good thing but it’s almost as if it matters less what one’s identity is and more what one believes!

          The backlash I mentioned will likely be a multiracial class based one. Most working class (and middle class) don’t buy into identitarian dogma. The concern is how political actors will harness and direct that energy.

          To be blunt I think Woke aka Critical Theory aka Identitarian ideology is destroying progressive politics and alienating the majority of people when we need it the most. The Bretton Woods system that gave rise to globalisation is collapsing and this is the perfect time to shape the economic systems we will transition to for the benefit of the many rather than the few. Instead we have useful idiots like you sucking the oxygen out of the room, conjuring or widening social divides and chasing identitarian spectres, restricting progressives politics to the cultural sandpit and too far from economic, environment and class politics to be useful.

  9. There are many educated and wealthy Maori people in NZ. Why do some Maori succeed and others fail? Colonisation is a weak argument. We have all been colonized at some time in our family history, otherwise we’d all be living in Africa where man first emerged.

    • many of them like their privileged white counterparts get a leg up, in maori terms class also counts if you’re iwiocracy you get chances/help other maori don’t….so yup class again riff raf

  10. The header image is an accurate representation of our financialised rentier economy which screws the workers but rewards the speculators. Plus is incapable of social investment like building homes for the homeless. NZ’s future is hopeless just look at the current parasites sitting in Parliament making things worse with their dead weight useless.

  11. So what happened to The Knowledge Economy, launched with great fanfare and bucketsful of $s at the beginning of the new millennium to kick start Closing the Gaps. Was supposed to turn us into the Pacific Tiger wasn’t it?

  12. Emphasizing race over class disparity does little to help those most effect by these damning statistics. Race based help/awareness raises poor brown people to the same level as poor white people. Class based help raises ALL poor people to a higher level. It also has the add bonus of not alienating people who are allies.

  13. I think it would be very beneficial to establish a central employment agency for all the members of all the Maori tribes who are unemployed to link them up with employers. I know the Ministry of Social Development does work with all unemployed with the aim to attain employment for them but this additional initiative may be prudent going forward.

  14. Its like employers pay their workers less which improves their profit margins and with all that cash they get into the housing investments game for some tax free money. Its screwing their employees from both ends.

  15. Unless they had Maori relatives the working class I’ve met are virilently agin ‘Maori privilege’, as they see it.

    • Yes a failure for all to see Gaby.
      I spent a considerable amount of time in Eastern Europe in the seventies and know how desperate life was.
      It sickens me to read on this site the rubbish spouted from people who have obviously been nowhere.

  16. Class rather than race is a better way to view things. Not a jot of difference between my Maori and Pakeha customers. You have to have privilege in Gisborne to employ a gardener.

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