Hell To Pay – The alarming similarities between the Anti-Vaccination Movement and the creators of the Jim Crow South.

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OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS I’ve been racking my brains over why the anti-vaccination movement feels so very, very creepy. I’ve sought reassurance in Jess Berentson-Shaw’s gentle enjoinders to engage empathically and constructively with the vaccine resistant, but without success.

Jess reminds me of those naïve souls who argue that non-violent tactics could have brought the Third Reich to its knees. These folk always forget that non-violent tactics only work against a government that is still capable of feeling shame, or, at the very least, fears being depised in the eyes of the world. Regimes fully armoured in self-justifying ideological extremism cannot be successfully challenged by the tactics of Gandhi and Martin Luther King.

Jess’s humanistic faith did, however, set off a train of thought. It caused me to review the history of the black civil rights movement through the prism of non-violence. Was it the key element in the movement’s success, or was there something else at work that caused the segregationist governments of the southern states to step back and take stock?  While there is no doubt that the imagery of the civil-rights struggle: of fire-hoses and billy-clubs; savage Alsatian dogs and tear-gas; deployed for the world to see against unresisting, non-violent youngsters; was more than successive administrations were willing to tolerate; it was not enough, on its own, to bring victory.

What effectively ended the official administration of Jim Crow was the Federal Government’s clear willingness to pick up where it left off in 1877. That was the year in which the last remaining garrisons of Federal troops were withdrawn from the South. The year when Washington effectively told Southern Whites that nothing would be done to prevent them from constructing violently racist regimes throughout the states of the defeated Confederacy. It was the 1957 decision of the Republican President, Dwight Eisenhower, to dispatch paratroopers from the 101st Airborne Division to Little Rock, Arkansas, to enforce the Supreme Court’s desegregation orders, that made it clear that “Reconstruction”, deferred for 80 years, was back.

After 1957, more and more of the heavy-lifting in defence of Jim Crow was taken up by the openly terrorist Ku Klux Klan. But the violence unleashed by the Klan, and the non-violent response of black and white civil rights activists, only made the Federal authorities’ responsibility to uphold the Constitution more urgent. The FBI’s ruthless counter-intelligence tactics made the Klan’s terrorism increasingly ineffectual. The violence at Selma, the Jim Crow South’s last stand, merely ensured that the crucial 1965 Voting Rights Act was passed – sealing its fate.

Of what relevance is this to the anti-vaccination movement of 2021? Simply, it draws its power from the same mental machinery that constructed the Jim Crow South nearly a century-and-a-half ago.

What enraged Southerners in the aftermath of the American Civil War was not simply that they had been defeated militarily, but that the racist ideological edifice that had sustained slavery was being demolished. The progressive view of humankind espoused by the Abolitionists had prevailed. In contemporary language, the old software no longer worked in USA 2.0.

Something very similar happened in the US, and New Zealand, with the arrival of Covid-19. Dangerous ideas and attitudes, which had been permitted to guide a minority of the population, were suddenly and unequivocally declared erroneous and unsafe by the State. The majority strongly concurred. Anti-scientific twaddle could no longer be ignored. In the context of a deadly viral pandemic, such ideas posed a direct threat to society’s well-being

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For those who saw science, and the progressive political and social ideas it underpinned, as the root of all evil, this was an intolerable situation. With some justification, they saw the war against Covid-19 as a war against their own, essentially pre-modern, world-view. Accordingly, the demands being made of them by the State were received as an existential threat – to be resisted at all costs, by any means necessary.

Exactly the same feelings of desperation and outrage gripped Southern Whites as they saw the triumphant principle of racial equality being given practical application in the 1870s. Under the protection of Federal bayonets, Black Southerners founded schools, established businesses and stood for public office. It was not to be borne.

An utterly uncompromising determination to destroy this new regime, and to obliterate the progressive ideology that inspired it, seized an unrelenting majority of White citizens across the Southern states. They would not rest until their version of reality was reinstated. Those who opposed them were shown no mercy. When the political weariness of the Northern states offered them the opportunity to reclaim political control, they grabbed it with both hands. Racist terror became the means of restoring calm to White Southern souls – for the next 80 years.

Peruse the Southerners’ “Lost Cause” propaganda of the Reconstruction Era (1866-1877) and you will find there the same unhinged extremism that throngs the dark recesses of the anti-vaxxer Internet. The same “Big Lies” are there. The same dumbfounding claims. The same threats of violence.

A vast international crisis, the Covid-19 Pandemic, has exposed the irrational underbelly of twenty-first century society. Neuroses and delusions that the majority had reluctantly tolerated (if only because the harm they caused was almost exclusively restricted to those who suffered from them) now threaten the general welfare.

If the violent prejudices of the Jim Crow South, echoing through contemporary struggles, teach us anything, it is that the defence of rationality, science and progressivism must never be allowed to falter. Those pre-modern night-riders, filled with unrelenting hate, are still out there. If the troops of Reason and Justice are withdrawn; if Liberty’s bayonets are sheathed; there will be Hell to pay.

 

100 COMMENTS

  1. Chris
    Regimes fully armoured in self-justifying ideological extremism cannot be successfully challenged…is this where we are at with this Govt? Don’t get me wrong. I’m pro vax even pro mandate. But are we dealing with the above with this Labour govt? It feels like it the way run this country. It has felt like this for many years even the Clark govt didn’t feel like this. Identity politics, casting good policy aside, are probably the catalyst.

    • Interesting – I felt the same way during the last National Government’s reign. I think it entirely depends upon one’s politics as to how one feels about a particular government – especially if you are politically engaged.

    • What a complete load of crap Kraut. Ideological extremism? Please – list some examples. Clear examples with proof.

      And don’t apply wokester/identity politics to the left exclusively thanks.

      If you want ideological extremism take a look at National and Act.

      You’re proving Chris’s story for him.

      • You’ll be well dead and buried before you get a list of examples. The Kraut doesn’t do evidence, it doesn’t fit his hard right and anti left narrative.

        • What about centralisation of power? Local councils have been underfunded for a long time and this government plan to make them even weaker. To solve problems with DHB and water infrastructure by centralisation does not enhance democracy, only bureaucracy, heaps of well paid unproductive bureaucrats.
          Education is another field that has gone down significantly.
          Inflation, housing, public transport…
          Instead of barking phrases about neoliberalism, capitalism, socialism, communism from one side to another and blaming one another we should concentrate on rational solutions of problems.
          We have reached considerably high rate of vaccination compared with other countries. We should look around the world and evaluate rationally ways that work and those that do not. And instead of neverending repeating arguments pro and contra vaccination mandates we should prepare for the time we will live with the virus. I am quite worried that the emphasis put on vaccines will incite the false feeling of safety and euphoria of “freedom” will lead to rapid spread.

          • You just don’t get it, councils spending is the root cause for poor finances, hardly surprising water related issues across the country are broken. Having the state control water reform is the absolute correct thing to do.
            And why do you believe Education has gone downhill? You made that statement without any evidence. And….
            You don’t “live” the virus.

            • Bert, I know very well that councils are spending money on stupidities (like that silk curtain). The problem is that the local democracy is weak and the question is how to make it stronger, how to get the best people to run to be elected, how to wake up people that they will pay more attention to what is happening on the local level, how to ascertain that people will be heard and have vital control over their money. Do you think that it can be reached by transferring more power to local authorities plus changing the rules of people’s involvement in control over investments or by transferring power to central bureaucracy?
              As for the education:
              “New Zealand children’s attainment in maths and science has been on a downward trajectory.

              A panel of experts is investigating the teaching of maths in this country, at the request of the Ministry of Education.

              Panel chairman Gaven Martin, Distinguished Professor of mathematics at Massey University, said New Zealand’s performance was very low in both numeracy and problem-solving.

              “You look at the data we get from the Ministry of Education, New Zealand’s poor performance on international benchmarks in mathematical skills and those sorts of things, and I would honestly say a generation of New Zealanders has been failed,” he said. (Stuff, March 14, 2021).”

              I personally think that there should be some standards to be achieved for each year nad level. It is a common practice abroad. This government removed them instead of improving the system so that it would work better. I am sure that you know as well as I know that children must have some goals to achieve in their education and also the teachers must know the goals they have to achieve.

              And I don’t know if you read the New Zealand History curriculum. I did and was very disappointed. Studying according to this plan the children are not going to have any picture of New Zealand history in the frame of world history. To start to teach history at the age when children cannot read and write, do not know the basics of geography and cannot comprehend the dimensions of time properly is just feeding them with fables. Cropped New Zealand history and being taught apart from the world history is just waist of time and money.

              I did not say to live the virus, but to live with the virus that I mean to live with the virus in community. But yes, it can happen that we will have to live with the virus having been infected (in spite of our vaccinated status)and there are heaps of questions to be answered: who is going to provide health care? GPs? What is the early treatment? How to use oximeters? Where to get them? When should I try to lower my temperature and when not, when to call ambulance etc. People should be educated and helped and not just let them isolating at home and hope they will somehow get better which is very common practice round the world.

      • indeed the right really are the SJWs just their form of crypto-fascist ‘social justice’ and nearly every one of them is a thin skinned snowflake

  2. This Government has caused a hell of a lot of damage within society, by dividing Kiwis into 2 groups. History will be very unkind to Jacinda from announcements, and her lot.

    • The AV mob have divided themselves, by choice. Nobody cares what the AV mob thinks about JA. Still very popular, 74% agree with vax mandate, which is MoH actually.

      • What REAL choice did they have? get vax, or have your civil rights (and human rights) limited…that is not a choice, that’s blackmail…hence, history will be unkind to Jacinda from announcements, and her mob.

        • What REAL choice do the vaccinated have if the unvaccinated infect them, where are the vaccinated’s civil rights and human rights, that is not a choice, that’s blackmail. History will be kind to Jacinda knowing she supported over 90% of New Zealand, that is the truth.

        • Do you claim a “right to infect and kill others with a deadly virus” as your civil and human right? In light of this what would be wrong with the 90% claiming a “health right” to give you a forceful little prick in the arm. No harm would come to you and peoples lives would be saved, potentially including your own.

          If an Aids sufferer knowingly infects another person the Aids suffer is up for prison time. Similarly, a person who has chosen not to vaccinate and then catches covid, then completely avoidably infects others, who may die or suffer lifelong health consequences, should they also face prison time?

          Holding people down to vaccinate them is not a step I would want to see but maybe the threat of prison for the completely predictable consequences of being unvaxxed could provide the impetus to get another 5 or 7 percent vaxxed.

          • I’m sure you’d be up for holding people down “Joseph”. I am unjabbed and intend to stay that way as long as Fascist vermin like you crawl across this planet

            • As I said I dont agree with holding people down and vaccinating them while people like you would happily infect old people in rest homes, patients in hospitals, children in schools and even members of your own family. Think about it, get vaxxed mate.

              Also, it now seems Austria is going to mandate vaccination for their whole population to overcome a fith wave of death. All children in Costa Rica get the standard cildhood vaccinations plus covid vax because the government takes the health of children seriously and knows irresponsible parents and antivaxxers fail to protect their kids from covid.

      • Michal please supply factual evidence of your statement. And please don’t state the two groups of AV and the vaccinated.

        The AntiVax, anti lockdown group, separated themselves from the rest of society, through their selfish, irresponsible behaviour, while ignoring health and safety restrictions during a pandemic. They chose to walk the unconnected path. Nothing to do with the government.

    • No, a pandemic and health crisis did that, combined with 40 years of neoliberalism, not to mention the rise and rise of the far right spreading divisive lies and conspiracy theories.

      But don’t let facts get in the way.

    • Nathan – Do you have any opinion poll results that back this Right-wing spin? I seem to remember the vast majority actually approving of Jacinda…

      • Go move to Auckland Sour Vino — then write those comments, if you actuality live in Auckland, and still write those comments, then WOW!

        • Grow up, Nathan. We in the Waikato have been in your conditions for 6 weeks, and i have many friends in Auckland who are far more balanced and intelligent than you appear to be.

    • @ Nathan Kerr?
      I’ve not yet read what CT has written above but I’m more interested in you and what you’ve written at this point.
      Let me clear up a couple of the boo boos in you opinions.
      Specifically: “This Government has caused a hell of a lot of damage within society,”
      Norman Kirk’s years were pretty good. Until, according to a national party MP, he was assassinated. ( Interview on RNZ/Kim Hill years ago.) Then Little Billy Rolling, then The Pig, then David Lange who quit, as he promised he would if caucus invited roger douglas back in, then the lantern faced blubbering, meandering boredom inducing limp dick door mat to neoliberalism Geoffery palmer who fell over his flat feet into parliament, then sketchy wee mike wife beater moore, then arse kissing Natzo farmer jimbo bolger and the secret, not so secret admirer to the freak show in a frock that is the terror that’s known as ruthless ruth richardson who mothered the mother of all budgets and fucked AO/NZ. ( Made you rich though, Aye Boys? )
      But wait? There’s more!
      Big jenny? Remember it? Dob in you neighbour jenny? Get tough on the bennies the previous worthless scum bags created who then handed our tax money to the already rich? helen fucking clark. A cop told me once ” She’s the worst of the lot” A Machiavellian crook with a massive, perverse ego who’d look more at home hanging upside down in a crypt. She was a stain resembling roger douglas’s neoliberal sports fetishes for naked money rolling. Then the Jonk. Mr Big-nose. The Hawaiian holiday home pervert. The little pony tail tugging riche bully who at least was not fettered by class or style. The cock shaped barbecue sausage chugger. And then… OMG! The double dipping Dipton dribbler. Wee billy english. How? How did a diptshit like it become prime minster of our AO/NZ? How?? The shirtless Haka mutilator. In a fantasy La La Land his doing the Haka pic would have been a jaw dropping insult to everything Maori but this was reality… Is that why drugs? To avoid that kind of reality?
      Adern may be a woman in a political male perverts world who has to try and navigate through the quagmire of dysfunctions and psychoses of a cadre of rich, parasitic, psychopathic narcissists during times of great and real danger to us all but when one looks back? She ain’t that bad is she?
      What do you reckon Nate? Are you that which you seem to me to be? A national party all-bought-and-paid-for influencer spreading dis-ease?

    • This government did a “lot of damage within society, by dividing Kiwis into 2 groups?”

      Yes. On one side are those who are mindlessly opposed to Jacinda Ardern. Ardern divided people by being the PM for two terms and in winning the second one comprehensively. That meant one group to be losers and they didn’t like it, don’t like it.

      They hate Ardern so much they force themselves to watch press conferences she does where she announces stuff they can get from multiple other sources within minutes. They watch so they can criticise her mannerisms, her dress, her pronunciation, the length of time she speaks, the fact she’s speaking at all.

      They hate that the covid strategies introduced by a government led by her are likely to have saved the lives of them, family members, acquaintances and other citizens. They are pissed off knowing they should be beholden to her so the spew out their endless crap to announce their shortcomings and the embarrassment that they are that thick. then abuse, ignorance and churlishness is their decorative form of then Trump red cap. Thus Kiwis divided themselves into two groups, one of them rational.

    • What are the twp groups? Not just Nat and Labour. Do you mean vax and antivax? If so you are being simplistic and shallow, there is more to society’s schism than that.

    • I doubt if Jacinda istol worried about her political future. She ha enough on her plate to try and deal withthe likes of you.

  3. Chris, long time reader of your comments and always enjoy the sense of history you bring to your arguments. But I feel you and all the other left wing, progressive-whatever you like to call them commentators (Bradbury, Campbell, Hager et al), are floundering over this issue.
    Quite simply the whole windy edifice of your arguments, like an inverted pyramid, is built on acceptance the “vaccine” is safe.
    Take that away and every other righteous argument directed at the non-vaccinated collapses.
    For the record – I’m what Mike Moore would describe as ‘tribal labour’. Voted Labour till 1987 then it was another 15 years before I could stomach voting for them again. Voted for the current arrangement twice but when Ardern gleefully announced her vaccine mandate for me this was a Rubicon she crossed there was no coming back from.
    A Labour government driving good people out of their jobs because they elect not to take a medical intervention they regard, at best, as dubious. As a lefty of long standing Chris, you know the big pharmaceutical companies have a long and sordid history of fraudulence and malfeasance in the pursuit of profit.
    If you haven’t done your research in this area it’s time you did. Forget about wracking your brains and dusting off your history books. It’s not that bloody hard to
    understand why some of us ex team of five million want nothing to do with the jab.

    • “Quite simply the whole windy edifice of your arguments, like an inverted pyramid, is built on acceptance the “vaccine” is safe.”

      Garbage. We don’t elect to accept vaccines simply based on whether they are safe. Virtually nothing in life is fully safe. We elect to accept the trade off in risks between their known benefits and known adverse outcomes when these are weighed against the risk of not taking the vaccine or against the disease it is designed to protect against.

    • And can we please have your EVIDENCE that the vaccine being used all over the world is not safe? Oh you don’t have any… do you suggest that the Govt just sits on its hands because of the paranoia of you & your AV cronies? You won’t be missed at the next election… looking forward to 1 more vote for Sue Grey or whatever nutter you lot prefer

  4. We live in strange times Chris! As a vaccinated person myself I cannot be totally surprised at the lack of trust in the science community among a significant fraction of society:

    Wasn’t it the science community who funded the ‘gain of function’ research that created the virus in the first place?
    Isn’t the vaccine made by Pfizer, a company previously that had to pay $2.3 billion settlement for “fraudulent marketing” of one of their products?
    Isn’t the Royal Society of New Zealand currently investigating some of its members for daring to suggest that Maori ‘cultural practices’ aren’t real science?

    2020 was the year the general public learned that scientists can be frauds too!

    • andrew the glaring tattered tear in your argument is that of course scientists CAN be frauds, doesn’t mean ALL OR EVEN THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE….otherwise the entire legal profession and all real estate agents would be banged up —– though that’s not such a bad idea.

  5. Sometimes an unpopular minority is righteous–WWI conscientious objectors being an obvious contender. The Great War was all about imperialist powers jockeying for dominance at the expense of their respective working classes. Those swimming against the tide and refusing to bear arms a hundred years ago were trying to advance the principle of valuing and saving human life, not extinguishing it by avoidable human actions.

    The hard core of the disparate anti vaccination groups are the exact opposite. Under a false flag of personal rights and hyper individualism they are quite willing to endanger other citizens. Their core motivation is rotten and undeserving of respect.

  6. “A vast international crisis, the Covid-19 Pandemic, has exposed the irrational underbelly of twenty-first century society.” – Amongst the 20 plus anti-vaxers I personally know are evangelical Christians, vegans, health food promoters abd, homeopaths, old hippies, Ban 1080 people, artists and musicians, Maori activists, and mainstream work colleagues

  7. You are one hundred percent right in this statement Mr Trotter;

    “If the troops of Reason and Justice are withdrawn; if Liberty’s bayonets are sheathed; there will be Hell to pay.”

    Question is; who is withdrawing from Reason and Justice, who is sheathing Liberty’s bayonets?

    I would point the finger directly at Ardern, Labour and the wokesters. The are effectively dividing the nation so that authoritarianism can be promulgated.

    The country stands at a great divide. This is by design. The promotion of “if you are not for us, than you are an enemy” is coming to the fore.

    And white people are the blame of all ills to foster this divide. The authoritarian demands an evil enemy to conquer so as to “save” the nation and the grateful citizens will fawn at their feet. Totally under control.

    Except that for now the dissidents have a voice. No matter how much rabble they contain, if democracy is to prevail they must exercise the right to that voice. Please don’t encourage this voice to be driven underground.

  8. The alarming similarities between the air you breathe and that which Hitler breathed. Alarmingly similar to that which Jacinta breathes.

  9. Its a poor comparison imo partly because you can flip the narrative and thus the protagonists in the essay…

    Minority group with limited rights only allowed or able to take certain jobs, only go certain places and for those between 12 and 18 limits to educational and social opportunity in the name of public good…

  10. “Neuroses and delusions ” yep every unvaccinated teacher/education worker who has been interviewed by the MSM to explain their reasoning is both neurotic and deluded. One cannot read their explanations and come to any other conclusion. Nice people , no brains!

  11. “Neuroses and delusions ” yep every unvaccinated teacher/education worker who has been interviewed by the MSM to explain their reasoning is both neurotic and deluded. One cannot read their explanations and come to any other conclusion. Nice people , no brains!

  12. 35 years of Roger Douglas’s Rogernomics Chickens have come home to roost.

    They’ve been ignored and ridiculed for decades and now they feel emboldened to contest the very state and political party that made them.

    In 2023 at the next NZ general election, I’m guessing they’ll cross the 5% threshold and probably form a right-wing alliance with the Nats and Act to create a true neoconservative government in NZ.

    We can all thank the Labour Party for that from 35 years ago and today.

  13. Still parroting the fake narratives of the [fascistic -melding of corporate and government interests] LINO government, I see.

    And still refusing to look at the evidence.

    That’s why I gave up on TDB many weeks ago, as have many others.

    I guess you’ll learn the hard way, eventually, Chris.

    And since this comment challenges the bullshit, I suppose it has to be censored out of existence.

    But the truth will emerge, with whatever silly, fascistic, censorship games games TDB play.

  14. “If the troops of Reason and Justice are withdrawn; if Liberty’s bayonets are sheathed; there will be Hell to pay.” – Great writing . .

  15. It’s not about culture wars. Its about the decline and decomposition of capitalism.
    Neoliberalism was the last chance for End Stage capitalism to stabilise the global economy.
    It failed to restore profitability sufficiently to soak up the stock of capital, leading to speculation in existing assets as opposed to producing new ones.
    This decline was not halted by the end of the Soviet Bloc. Worse, Russia and China were born again as rampant capitalist rivals.
    As capitalism decomposes, it exposes the rotting corpses of previous modes of production in its bowels.
    Slavery, serfdom and unfree wage labor return with all their reactionary cultural effluvia rising to the surface.
    Nationalism, racism and sexism break down the advances of ‘enlightenment’ of capital in the 18th and 19th century, unleashing the long overdue backlash of nature fighting back.
    We recognise this concept as the ‘capitalocene’ which expresses the deepening contradiction between capital and nature of capitalists exploiting nature for profit.
    Yet this contradiction has created the potential in its growth for counter-acting forces to resist as a return of nature to unleash the conditions for a post-capitalist future – the class struggle.
    All of this was understood by Marx by 1848 as part of the science of the enlightenment, of reason, under attack by irrationality of postmodern capitalism of today.
    The rise of the irrational, the cult of the individual mired in the particularity of nation, race and gender acts to weaken the secular, scientific, universal of our grounding in the material world.
    It expresses itself as a cultural war, rather than a class war.
    Humanity must restore itself in nature and return to its material roots to wage the class war.
    Our survival depends on it.

    • ‘Humanity must restore itself in nature and return to its material roots to wage the class war.
      Our survival depends on it.’

      Our survival depends on the money-lender-come-industrial system collapsing immediately. And even then it may well be too late, since we are in severe overshoot with respects to most factors -especially population and consumption of resources- whilst at the same time pollution levels have never been higher and biodiversity is in terminal decline.

      Undoubtedly the burgeoning food crisis (leading to even more mass starvation) and burgeoning energy crisis (leading to failure of transport systems etc.) will bring the entire system to its knees quite soon. But whether it will be fast enough to prevent the Earth being rendered uninhabitable [for humans] is doubtful. The fake CoP 26 in talkfest in Glasgow clearly demonstrated those in power have no intention of preserving the long-term habitability of the Earth, and are only concerned with preserving the financial system and the benefits accruing to the top 1% in the short term…..thereby ensuring near-term collapse.

      What is really telling is that more people die on the roads of NZ and from drinking too much alcohol and from eating junk food than die from the greatly overhyped pandemic.

      • “the greatly overhyped pandemic”

        Did you not see the corpses in the body bags outside the hospitals in Wuhan and Italy 20 months ago. The confirmed death rate for covid is 2%. Without Jacinda’s closed border, managed isolation and quarantine, lockdowns, free vaccinations and an achieved 90% vaccination target, there could have been 100,000 dead kiwis.

        If you are unvaxxed please get over the hype, we are not out of the woods yet, it’s likely hundreds if not thousands of unvaxxed kiwis are yet to die.

  16. You know what i find creepy?
    Aucklanders – who feel entitled to a holiday elsewhere then Auckland. No matter the rest of the country to which they will inevitably bring Covid, they deserve to leave Auckland and the rest of the country be fucked.

    • Just as this Aucklander find creepy, that some people find it exceptable for one part of the country to be locked up for over 6 to 9 months just so a few dawdlers can get vacinated.

      • so forcefully tell ‘the dawdlers’ THEY’RE ruining YOUR life, no more ‘mr understanding’ if you give the muppets an inch, they won’t come round they’ll just demand a yard.

  17. What REAL choice did they have? get vax, or have your civil rights (and human rights) limited…that is not a choice, that’s blackmail…hence, history will be unkind to Jacinda from announcements, and her mob.

    • bit like seatbelts, drunk driving and swimming with crocs–actions have consequences…time to pull on the big boy pants and accept what your ‘free choice’ entails…..the freedom to kill your friends family and total strangers cos it’s that or get vaxxed there is no 3rd option, wish there was but there isn’t
      ..now sit down and eat yer sprouts.

      and before you trumped the old news ‘the vaxxed can spread it too’ yup the actual question is do YOU want a severe case or a mild one.

  18. Sadly anti-science is encouraged by neoliberal educational bums on seats with lecturers and those getting ahead in the education space who are cheaper, good networkers but now NOT best of breed, top researchers and academics. Expertise under globalism is now not mandatory, paid for lobbyists are getting richer with paid for science and opinions.

    Government made the polytechs in NZ equal to universities and now we have nothing, no good trades like builders and fewer academics coming out of the universities. Paid for education has let down domestic students who now are dropping like flies from higher education, instead of the false promise of more inclusion.

    Speaking of inclusion, can be very dangerous, when you have inclusions in everything, aka US creation theory, god created heaven and earth being taught in schools, pregnant people not woman, then you get voodoo science and easily led supporters.

    Combined with rampant individualism blossoming everywhere, where everyone is taking every else to court if they don’t get their way, mall terrorists with 2 armed SIS agents following them as it’s their right to try to kill others, gang members getting exemptions and millions from proceeds of crime, people with millions in cash and cigarettes somehow getting name suppression for ‘hardship’ while touting a QC, changing race is as easy as changing your sex and fully funded, while the physically disabled get funding cuts…. bonkers is the New Zealand where fairness and equality has been abandoned in individualist, identity, fuckwittery and networking, lobbyists take all.

  19. I think I can understand that Chris is saying that the southern US States had generations of white citizens who believed in their right to own black slaves and they didn’t believe they were doing anything wrong so they weren’t going to change their minds peacefully. The different with the AV’s is that they’re such a minority but still believe they’re right and the other 90% are wrong. In the US half the population (approx) thought they were right. Maybe 50%. At least there’s some logic in the numbers of believers then. The AV’s perhaps ban together online for support. Digital logic.

  20. What dribble Chris.
    People who want to preserve their basic human rights to determine what medication they do and do not have on their bodies makes them akin to the KKK?
    My wife and I have both had the vaccine and we are both disgusted by the mandate that strips people of inalienable human rights unless they submit to the vaccine mandate.
    Jacinda Adern is a fascist and Collins is no better for supporting this and frankly you are worse with your sick and twisted analogy.

      • Man you’re a pathetic moron.
        You’re the same sort of twat that gets on here and claim that housing is a basic human right.
        But as soon as you get a little bit scared of a widdle virus and you are happy to sacrifice everybody else’s human rights.
        You are an unprincipled piece of garbage. Betcha you’d happily vote the treaty null and void if it’d extend your worthless life by 6 months.

    • “the mandate that strips people of inalienable human rights”

      There is no inalienable human right to work as a teacher or in a hospital. The anti-vaxxers still have the right to get some other job just like anyone else. It’s the tolerance of the rest of society that hasn’t seen them held down for a wimpy little prick in the arm. Meanwhile, they are claiming the freedom to infect other members of society with a deadly virus is an “inalienable human right”.

      • Yes Joseph and what about those that will be affected by the “mother of all protests” Sunday 21st November? Seems inalienable human rights are selective.

  21. I agree Chris
    The insidious and imported element to the anti-vax movement is not to be reasoned with and this isn’t about a vaccine. The language is jarring and foreign, and pointed, and lastly dangerous.

    We’ve been protesting “freedoms” chopping down flagpoles, throwing dildos and shooting flags long before Steven Bannon’s fanatical followers infiltrated this particular movement.

    The sad part for me is some well meaning alternative folk don’t realise they are being cuckooed by other forces, and some political parties don’t realise they are being Manchurian Candidated by sinister elements to gain a footing in the New Zealand scene.
    And if the do realise, that’s even more abhorrent.

  22. jay. how about other peoples basic right ‘not to be killed’ and that one is actually in the UN charter not an invented one…..the unvaxxed can and will kill, their suicidal tendencies don’t worry me but their deliberate selfish and uncaring violation of the human rights of others does….

  23. Jacinda Ardern, first she was labeled a pretty communist, then a dopey socialist, then a woke millennial, then a nodding centrist, then a corrupt neoliberal, then an incompetent Labourite…..and now a fascist……..wow, what a woman eh, Buddug must be coming soon….

    There really are some badly programmed and very sick minded keyboard bots posting here.

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