Show some bloody respect to people who refuse vaccinations

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'Im so fearful

It’s no surprise to see former Prime Minister John Key advocating financial incentives for Māori and Pasifika to get vaccinated in the next six weeks.

Individualising and monetising vaccination is the typical response of a neoliberal moneyman who believes the strategic use of cash will solve any obstacle in the way of the rich getting richer.

Since the first lockdown last year when the right wing went bonkers and called for opening the borders at the start of the pandemic (the likes of Winston Peters, Simon Bridges, David Seymour and the truly awful Michael Barnett) not very much has changed.

The National Party finally cottoned on that their message was rejected by the middle-class voters they could normally count on and they lost last year’s election heavily as a result.

For a while they changed tack but now they are back on message with John Key saying the government is to blame for low vaccination rates and has created a “smug hermit kingdom” which must now open up to the world.

The right wing is desperate to get back to business as usual which means:

  • A return to massive profits for big businesses
  • Opening up the borders for cheap migrant workers they can exploit with effective pay rates below the minimum wage
  • Keeping work visas of these migrant workers tied to their employer and deny them a path to residency
  • Bringing in more seasonal workers from the Pacific who can pick apples and prune vines while being paid effective pay rates less than the minimum wage by their crooked labour contractor employers (don’t tell me this is just a few bad apple employers – the exploitation of workers is endemic in horticulture and the legal consequences for employers are so pathetic as to be effectively non-existent – steal an apple from your employer and you will end up in jail but when an employer steals wages from a worker the state couldn’t care less)
  • Opening up to mass tourism – our tourism “industry” depends heavily on this model
  • Privatising MIQ for private profit making
  • Keeping the tax system rigged so those on the lowest incomes pay the highest tax rates (through income tax and GST, minimum wage workers pay higher tax rates than anyone else)
  • Dribbling out the building of state houses – under Labour the state house waiting list has increased at more than twice the rate the government is building state houses)

It seems clear to me from social media that the core of those refusing vaccinations are working class New Zealanders and the majority by a long way are Pākehā. This doesn’t show up in statistics which focus only on vaccine rates for different ethnicities because Māori and Pasifica are overrepresented in the working class.

The real problem with the “team of five million” is that for John Key and Jacinda Ardern it applies only to the pandemic and getting vaccinated.

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

Where is the team of five million when working class New Zealanders lose their jobs? Or desperately need decent affordable housing? Or lose the protections of the Residential Tenancies Act when they are shoved into grotty motels? Or when they are treated like scum at WINZ? Or struggle to put food on the table?

Where is the team of five million then?

Is it any surprise so many in the working class are susceptible to conspiracy-theory, anti-vax messages?

Labour and National politicians need to show some basic respect to the members of the team of five million who tell the government to get stuffed when it comes to vaccinations. The seeds of the problem lie in our economy based on greed with poverty and inequality essential parts of the picture.

Unfortunately, if you look across the Labour government’s cabinet is there any minister who will stand up against John Key’s “business as usual” agenda being brought back as quickly as possible?

Is there a single one?

79 COMMENTS

  1. …’Where is the team of five million when working class New Zealanders lose their jobs? Or desperately need decent affordable housing? Or lose the protections of the Residential Tenancies Act when they are shoved into grotty motels? Or when they are treated like scum at WINZ? Or struggle to put food on the table?

    Where is the team of five million then?’…

    …’Labour and National politicians need to show some basic respect to the members of the team of five million who tell the government to get stuffed when it comes to vaccinations. The seeds of the problem lie in our economy based on greed with poverty and inequality essential parts of the picture.

    Unfortunately, if you look across the Labour government’s cabinet is there any minister who will stand up against John Key’s “business as usual” agenda being brought back as quickly as possible?

    Is there a single one?’…

    —————

    You’ve nailed it , Mr. Minto. I tried to say the same thing but Mr. Bradbury wouldn’t have it and denied my post. I’m quite disgusted at that. Seems unless your a ‘somebody’ your opinion for better or worse doesn’t count.

    So much for the democracy theory. But you have laid it out bare.

    Thanking you. As for Bradbury,… sometimes political expediency gives way to common sense and the slaughter of the sacred cows. Get with the program , Bradbury.

  2. Great post–rather incongruous header though compared to the content. Personally I have little respect for anyone that is medically able to be vaccinated deciding not to get their two shots. I do respect working class alienation and general cynicism when it comes to the NZ neo liberal state.

    There are thousands of off grid people that need to be approached in a reasonable manner and vaccination offered in a comfortable setting for them.

    You have nailed the class aspect of COVID John, and yes NZ National did get sat on its arse at the election because a lot of the NZ petit bourgeois and ordinary middle class actually supported public health and more specifically–their own lives–before private profit.

          • “You clearly haven’t read outside of the Govt and MSM propaganda.”

            Go on then, give us the address for Q’s twitter feed.
            You know you want to.

        • Richard, at this stage it’s anybody’s guess. Could just as likely be vaccinated clogging hospitals. As no one in my age group has died from Covid in NZ and elimination theory persists I’ll keep fighting for pro choice. Peace.

      • Hey Off white
        So what, I’ll get a booster. As many boosters as I need. But at least I started by getting two shots. How many did you get?

        • I can live with the requirement for booster shot or shots, it’s not a new phenomenon in regard to vaccinations.
          If on going boosters are required (no conclusive data on this is in as yet) it will only intensify research for better alternatives to current types.

    • That was a good informative link Off white ,,,,, it added more information to my Covid perspective / knowledge.

      Here’s another link which seems to show that some of the problems with the vaccine ,,, cold be down to not following established procedures for intramuscular injections.

      Inadvertant intravenous injections https://youtu.be/nBaIRm4610o

      As Keepcalmcarryon points out in their post below there is to much black or white non-thinking going on ,,,, which impedes knowledge and understanding.

      Impartial information is under threat …..

      https://youtu.be/44B-OJcOXxc

      • Reason, appreciate it. The intravenous one is interesting, ‘dr’ John has some good takes, provides some balance and then cops it from both sides. Russell is another voice of reason, especially as of late and I’ve been enjoying his approach. There’s definitely no glory in asking too many questions these days. Respect.

  3. No there isn’t John, well said. Labour and National are two sides of the same coin. Key and National were hopeless. Unfortunately for our most vulnerable, it looks like this iteration of Labour are even worse.

  4. While I agree 100 percent that we need to make New Zealand a fair society and that would help with Covid, I know about 12 to 15 people who aren’t getting vaccinated and none of them could be called working class. There are a real range of reasons people aren’t getting vaccinated amongst the people I know. There are Christians and conspiracy theorists, intellectuals and non-intellectuals and artists and musicians. It’s a relief to come to work with a bunch of pretty ordinary New Zealanders who I would call “working class” who simply are getting on with getting the vaccination, wearing masks etc

    • i.e. there are a bunch of people who have a REAL reason to not get this “gene therapy, non-vaccine’, other than antivaxxers and all the other insults this echo chamber can come up with.
      Wear the mask is a good preventative measure.

    • Yes, this is an interesting fact esoteric pineapples. People I know who are reluctant to get the mRNA vaccine are not ‘working class’ and it’s because they have been reading a lot of academic papers on the vaccine, which is a developing discovery work in progress, or as one scientist put it “we are working on the train while it is rolling down the track.” Some people do not like the fact that this is basically an experiment in progress and there are plenty of horror stories where science has got it wrong..Cane toads, mixamtosis, thalidomide etc etc.This gives some people pause. For example, they are finding out that the double shot vaccine wears off after about 8 months, and then booster shots are required. They are not sure how these boosters will play out either, will they be effective? Will antibodies start attacking the booster shot, and so on. Should booster be given while poor countries are not vaxed, will this actually lead to much more serious strains of the virus. The vaccine does demonstrably help with the severity of the disease if you catch it after being double vaxed…but this in itself gives pause…people can catch Covid after being vaxed! So guess what life is never going back to normal pre Covid because the health system just won’t cope with breakout Covid that will occur if all health protocols are stopped, namely the most important one being the closed border and MIQ…this will have to stay in place no matter how many people are vaxed. And on that point, plenty already are and the rollout is nothing to complain about.

  5. All points well taken. Yes it’s no surprise that the virtual slaves and disenfranchised of this world would be suspicious of government and authority. Sad and ironic that by avoiding vaccination they would be adding yet another woe to their situation.

  6. I live in a part of NZ where living off grid has been the norm for generations.
    Mainly for economic reasons but also lifestyle choice.
    Comprising isolated smug willfully ignorant individuals who are not digitally literate or especially worldly or informed usually with addiction issues and a belief system to assuage their issues. These people are idiots if they think open borders will not affect their health. I am surprised personally at how many of them I count as friends. I will not be bothering to attend their funerals. Respect ?? no fucking way. Suffering fools gladly is the road to boredom and underachievement.

    • Agreed. Why is a decision to not be vaccinated automatically worthy of respect?
      Only the right to make such a decision is to be respected. As to the decision itself, in most cases it’s unworthy of intelligent respect.
      On top of that, the article’s main target is predicated on an assumption that people actively disrespect those who refuse vaccination. Again in most cases it’s the decision, not the person who is disrespected. The exception being those who spread disinformation and misrepresent the science (i.e. science = rational conclusions drawn from examining available evidence). If they do so after being exposed to correction they are certainly worthy of contempt.

      • Maybe the people you speak about who choose to be unvaccinated have very few choices in their life and this is one decision where they do have a choice so are using it to vent their fustration and anger over their general predicament

  7. Some very good points, but not the right headline for the article, there is little or no respect for those refusing vaccination without a clear medical reason for doing so.

    • Ha! My sentiments exactly. Do you think the penny is dropping with Minto that , given the present fraught and distressing climate, nobody gives a damn what he thinks about Israel anymore.

      • You wish–From the River to the Sea–Palestinians will be free…The Zionists don’t like it up’em…

        “in our thousands, in our millions, we are all Palestinians!!”
        –line from a Kia Ora Gaza song used at gatherings, rallies and marches, by Roger Fowler.

  8. Dear Off White
    ”Hey Kraut, your 2 shots are becoming less and less effective by the day. Won’t be long and 2 shots will be as good as no shots. Seems people are awfully slow to catch on to this fact.”

    So when was the last time you heard of someone in New Zealand with polio? ( vaccination developed in 1960s), Diptheria? Scarlet Fever? tuberculosis? and all those other diseases that vaccinations ELIMINATED?
    When did the vaccinations for these diseases lose strength over time?

    Jimmy Dore- Yankee conspiracy peddler on You Tube.

    Example given -Israel – country that vaccinates Jews but not Palestinians – thereby leaving a reservoir of disease that can continue to infect Israelis when they come into contact with the Palestinians who clean their houses, harvest their food crops and fill their prisons.

    • Stevie, those ‘old school’ vaccines are tried and tested. mRNA is novel technology.
      Please point out some of Jimmy’s conspiracies. Or is that something you heard on TYT or CNN.

      • Those “old school” vaccines were novel at one point and then became the norm and now old school. Point out some of your anti vaxx facts or is that something you heard on Fox News or Trump T.V?

            • LOL….or so you comfort and delude yourself.
              If what i write is such B.S show it ALL and let people highlight the errors. Understand the other persons point of view, then dismis it if you choose to, but you can NOT understand if you only have an echo chamber and P.R ‘lying media’ fror your ‘information’.
              But nope, can’t have that in case you all learn how dangerous it is taking these non-vaccines.
              I’m OK that you all gambling. But I’m just tryoing to share the info the prpaganda media has succeeded in stopping you hearing.
              Ivermectin was known to work against Covid for the last 18 months, so it’s seemingly is ALL about big pharma profits and some daft reason to vaccinte people in a human guinea pig trail.
              I HOPE those that worry it’s a population thinning-out operation ARE wrong.

              • So you are happy to use an unproven drug that is used to kill animal paresites but not the one cleared by countries medical labs around the World . I hope this World wide conspiracy is well financed . You realise 3 people have died of Ivermectim poisoning in New Mexico.

        • Yeah they were, but usually a bit further along the trials before given en masse and lets not forget a bunch have been withdrawn Rsv vaccine for example and RSV has killed a bunch of kids this year alone in NZ

          Not to mention big Pharmas track record is not much different to big oil and tobacco when it comes to misinformation and denial when monies involved.

      • MRNA was discovered in 1960 and has been tested on certain cancers since 2010 refined again sars and now we have the covid 19 vaccine hardly new technology. In a small country with limited ICU units any of those taken up by covid patients that would not be there if vaccinated is an unnecessary waste of resources especial nurses.

    • Depends on the vaccine stevie.
      Huge differences in protection level between different bugs and vaccines.

      The BCG vaccine for Tb is actually pretty shit and only a part of controlling Tb- “eradicating” Tb (we still import people with the human variant) came more from health measures targeting the bovine form (also infects people)- testing and culling infected cattle, Pasteurising milk, antibiotics that can target intracellular bacteria and trying not to import immigrants with the human variant.

      Compare to smallpox which is a virus which promotes a very strong immune response = very strong vaccine.

      I hate how the internet pushes people in to black and white thinking.

  9. I have no respect for anti vaxxers. If they are workers they show no care for fellow workers or customers. If theyou are benefituries then they are happy to live on others work but cannot do their bit to protect those people. Some cannot be vaccinated so this makes those that can and do not very selfish.

  10. Covid is political. Global capital the favors vaccination strategy. The working class (and 70% of New Zealanders) favors the elimination strategy, providing it is well managed with tight control over the border, meaning that lock downs are infrequent and of short duration.
    If the vaccine is effective, those refusing to be vaccinated for Covid present no direct threat to those who have been vaccinated.
    So we don’t need to be worried about those who refuse to be vaccinated. We need to be concerned about a government which has once again conceded to the demands of global capital and has abandoned a successful elimination strategy to pursue a high risk strategy which hinges on vaccines of dubious value.

    • Yes, absolutely right Geoff Fischer, it is a damn stupid shame Auckland came out of L 4 before the tail had been chopped off. Big mistake in my view. The myth that things will go back to normal once everyone is vaxed will become apparent once it’s apparent that the vaccine has stopped working and in fact it is the health controls that were keeping us safe.

      • Wow this comment thread has a range…
        But John is right we as a society treat certain segments like absolute shit see health, justice and winz for example the system marginalizes them then society expect they’ll tow the line all of a sudden… and when they dont… the opprobrium and racism bubble to the surface in spectacular fashion.
        This govt is going to tear nz apart, on one hand its overseen the housing crisis getting worse exponentially and one the other its effectively given permission for society to shit on the victims of said crisis…
        Lets all nark on our neighbours and blame the unvaccinated for all our troubles… whay a fucking a joke this govt is I suspect just as bad as the 4th Labout govt if not worse if.you support it you’re an outright class traitor. Eat the rich.

    • Unvaccinated aren’t a problem unless they infect children or those who can’t be vaccinated due to medical reasons. Also if all ICU beds are full of COVID patients and you have a serious accident requiring ICU treatment, then you have a problem. The biggest risk that anti-vaxers pose is that the ignorance they spread is highly contagious and will likely cost lives.

      • Polite question: how are ‘the unvaxxinated’ going to become infected? What do they avoid, who do they avoid to stay healthy? (Sneering and scorn are unconvincing, BTW. You know this and others have missed the point.)

        Next one: have we ever been overwhelmed some winter with people in ICU because of ‘ordinary’ ‘flu? Are we sufficiently foresighted to buy/make spares? And challenge the weird health system that limits the intake/output of trained people so we can get more care people into the system to reduce the system-created shortages.

        While the troops are out vaxxing – what is happening to the waiting lists for basic health issues – which are actually killing more people than The Lurg. (Heart problems, cancers.)

        And, last one: who is providing the apparently missing data about how many people catch it – and recover – without ever seeing the inside of an ICU?

        Politely, of course.

        • Unless you are a dog trained to sniff COVID good luck avoiding infected people.

          We have Novavax boosters ordered. Post that it’s waiting for the RNA companies to find a way to improve their vaccine for the delta variant.

          In Enzed the number of deaths during the pandemic has been going down.

          Hopefully we use a good vaccination rate to attract incoming nurses etc when we open borders up more.

      • Kia ora Richard
        The only way to protect children and others who cannot be vaccinated from Covid is elimination. The government’s new strategy of vaccination leading to open borders (via “isolation at home”) means that children will be exposed to the virus by tourists, visitors, and returning New Zealanders.
        Hopefully few children will become very ill, and fewer will die. Those who do become ill will be paying the price for a colonialist government which has made some very bad decisions.
        The lesson to be drawn from all of this is that the colonialists have neither the will nor the ability to protect our people and keep them safe. We need to do all we can to hasten the demise of the colonial regime if we are to avoid future catastrophes in waiting.

      • Richard, whilst I would not call myself an antivaxer, I would disagree that they are all ignorant. Also, you do know that even if you are doubled vaxed and you still catch Covid, you can spread it just the same as unvaxed person who catches Covid. Therefore, health protocols will still need to be implemented

  11. Do what the Colonial government use to do to Maori and the unwanted. Send them to Rakino Island for ‘rest & recuperation’ indefinitely.

    If they haven’t got a legitimate medical reason for not getting a jab, fuck’em.

    • Why are some commenters so fixated on Israel? Guilt complexes?

      John Minto writes on many topics other than Israel, and has always done so.

      • But some of the commentators only comment around Israel, so probably an organised group with an agenda trying to squash alternative voices on Israel, and probably not even located in NZ….

      • Some just like to feed a narrative simply because their lazy.
        Soundbites and parroting for the sake of adding a comment aren’t helpful or intelligent in any way.

    • Come to think of this John. Where is that antisemite J Moses hiding?

      Last seen was when she hi-jacked the Muslims ChCh Survivors Hui.
      You cant be more disrespectful than that ay?

  12. It’s easy to be a working class victim of the neo-liberal regime and lose trust in it. Thatt requires no effort what so ever.

    What is to respect is fighting for a common cause – food banks for the poor, food in schools, free dental, a CSC for cheaper health care, better Pharmac funding, better staffed public hospitals and aged care homes, MW rises, union solidarity, more state houses …

    Not taking a free vaccine is dumber than using meth.

    • Ewe, a ‘no vaccine, no treatment’ rally would draw large crowds and the media would call you heroes. While a ‘my body, my choice’ rally would be reported as far right neo nazi march.

      Baaaaaaaaaa…

    • So fuck you when you get breakthrough Covid too, if your body is dumb enough to succumb to the disease after the cost of being double vaxed…Into the bin you go you weak assed creep, no ICU for you!

    • With young Maori being the group lagging in vaccination I wonder if all the authoritarian lefties wanting blanket compulsory vaccination, restrictions on the unvaxed and braying how they will laugh if they die of covid, realize they are laughing and crapping on disproportionately poor brown faces?

      Such is the hypocrisy of the intersectionists tying themselves in knots in their rankings of the virtuous.

      If you choose not to vax I’m OK with it although I don’t think it’s smart. I’m not going to treat you like a leper.

      Only certain occupations (hospital, border) should have compulsory vax IMO and they should have to offer those who decide not to alternative employment.

      It is stupid to burn social cohesion and trust over this as PFIZER VACCINATED PEOPLE CAN STILL PASS ON THE VIRUS.
      (Apologies for rare overuse of caps)

      • Yep, vaxxed people can still get it, and yes they can still pass it on. Lucky for us we (almost entirely) get it much less severely, are less infectious and only very rarely die from it. I’m literally going to laugh when the gormless unvaccinated morons start dying when things are inevitably opened up. Enjoy your little cough, or take some invermectine or whatever you think up next.

          • Hey keepcalm. Unvaccinated people will cause harm. How much information do they need? It’s not about being a virtue signalling intersectionist. It’s about not being a dick. Dick.

            • “I’m literally going to laugh when the gormless unvaccinated morons start dying “
              “It’s about not being a dick”
              OK champ.
              (Ivermectin not Ivermectine)

  13. People who refuse vaccinations pose a risk in that they can infect other people if they get the disease the vaccination is to protect them from. Being unvaccinated isnt like smoking or drinking where the main person who will suffer is the one that smokes or drinks. the unvaccinated pose a real threat to other people.

    • wrong:

      alcohol causes a lot of problems for the wider community. From drunks being violent through to property damage, health costs for drunks who end up in hospital or rehab, drunk driving causing accidents and deaths.

      Second hand smoke also kills people.

      If people are going to get on their high horse about being vaccinated then I hope they are living spotless lives themselves otherwise they look like hypocrites to me,

  14. A Guardian article, 15.08.2021, ‘Vaccine hesitancy is a symptom of people’s broken relationship with the state’, highlights another factor promoting vaccine hesitancy or refusal. Dishonesty, broken promises in one area generates lack of trust in others. No government and few if any state agencies are scrupulously honest and neo-liberalism worsened the problem. As the article says, “Vaccine rejection doesn’t happen in a vacuum”.

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