Free speech matters

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In an investigation into the history of Israel’s founders, The General’s Son, the author, Miko Peled, born in Jerusalem and a human rights activist, reveals the ugly truth of Zionism’s beginning and purpose. He tells us that Theodor Hertzl, the founder of Zionism, claimed that the only real Jews are secular and Zionist. According to Hertzl, Jews are a nation because, as he put it, “our enemies made us one without our consent; distress binds us together.” On the other side of the argument, as far back as the Ninth Century, Rabbi Sa’adiya Ga’on observed in his book, Beliefs and Opinions, that Jews — are a nation only by virtue of their religious laws.

Hertzl, who considered himself and other Zionists as secular and “enlightened”, thought of religious Jews as “a lower class of people” and blamed them for hatred against all Jews. He lamented that his higher class of Jew was unjustly forced to suffer, along with those who, as he saw it, deserved to be shunned. Vladimir Jabotinsky, the father of what is now the Israeli Likud Party, wrote a eulogy to Hertzl, using an insulting term with which to refer to religious Jews and ‘Hebrew’ to describe what he considered to be their superiors. He states quite clearly that the Hebrew ought to know how to command. As Miko Peled notes, the Zionist state was created “for the secular European Jew, who wants more than anything to be European.” He also notes that “when the victims of Zionism finally have their day in court, the world will see just how cruel and racist the early Zionists really were.”

April 9 marked the 73rd anniversary of the Dayr Yasin Massacre when Zionist forces, Lehi and Irgun, invaded and took control of the Palestinian village of Dayr Yasin. What followed was one of the worst of the ethnic cleansing Nakba massacres. Survivors were forced out of their homes to become refugees and, to this day, the Zionist regime continues to deny their right of return. Two Jewish neighbourhoods, Kfar Shaul and Har Nof, now stand over the site of the village.

Israel’s pro-Zionist UK ally

In a tatement by the Rt Hon James Cleverly MP at the Security Council briefing on the Middle East Peace Process on 23 June 2020, the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs Minister admitted that Palestinians were suffering from settlement expansion, increases in demolitions, seizures and a worsening of settler violence” but described these violations of international humanitarian law merely as “counterproductive activities.” However, he condemned Palestinian Resistance to Israel’s, destructive blockade of Gaza, as a threat to “Israel’s security.” He continued: Let me be clear: the UK is committed to Israeli security. We condemn all forms of incitement and anti-Semitism wholeheartedly.” Nowhere in the statement does the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs Minister mention any commitment to Palestinian security.

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

In his speech, James Cleverly note that Palestinian militants have fired rockets and launched incendiary devices from Gaza. What he fails to acknowledge is the enormous disparity of scale between the numbers of Israeli attacks on the one hand and Palestinian Resistance to them on the other. In the first three months of this year, for example, there were three ceasefire violations by the Palestinian Resistance in response to 295 attacks on Gaza by Israel. That is 98 Israeli attacks for every Palestinian retaliation. The first Palestinian missile-firing came on 19 January, after 91 attacks by Israeli forces, including two incursions into Gaza and invasions of its airspace. Palestinian fishing boats and agriculture came under almost daily attack. Both the Palestinian missiles were unguided and caused no deaths or injuries.

The first of the three Palestinian violations was also in January when Israeli forces encountered armed Palestinian resistance after making a seven hour incursion into an area east of al-Farahin, where they began laying waste to Palestinian land. Later, just after 11pm on 19 January, Israeli forces, positioned behind the Green Line, shelled an area east of the al-Maghazi refugee camp, wounding one person and damaging several homes. In his speech, Cleverly describes Palestinian Resistance as “terrorism and ‘anti-Semitic’ incitement.” The power imbalance and timing outlined above can leave no doubt about the true source of incitement.

Israel and the International Criminal Court

On 8 April, Israel responded to a notification by the International Criminal Court (ICC), sent on 9 March, concerning plans to investigate “possible war crimes in the occupied Palestinian territories”. Israel, which had from the outset chosen not to be a party to the Rome Statute that created the ICC, replied by refusing even to recognise the Court’s jurisdiction with regard to the investigation. The ICC has, however, determined that it does have jurisdiction regarding Israeli military Occupation and control over the Palestinian territories of Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem. One of the guiding ICC principles, embodied in the Charter of the United Nations, is that “all States shall refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations”. Even though Palestinian statehood may be denied by Israel, the right of the Palestinian people to “territorial integrity” and “political independence” is enshrined in the “Purposes of the United Nations”.

The language used by the ICC regarding “possible war crimes” is moderate and diplomatic. In reality, the world knows that Israel commits war crimes every day. James Cleverly’s speech to the Security Council, referred to above, is just one example of this. But although political leaders allied to Israel cannot deny its atrocities, they can and do, underplay them. New Zealand’s Five Eyes allies, in particular, habitually divert attention away from Israel by labelling Palestinian Resistance as ‘incitement’.

The security of Palestinians is constantly violated, with no respect even for children. In just the first three months of this year, 230 Palestinian children have been abducted by Israeli troops and police. Many of them, under interrogation, suffered not only verbal abuse but also violence that, in some cases, amounted to torture. On 2 April, Israeli troops, firing stun grenades and tear gas canisters in the Bab al-Zawiya area, beat up 13-year-old Mu’taz al-Zarrou and hospitalised him with severe injuries – without doubt that is state terrorism.

Israel seizes more Palestinian property in Jerusalem

At 2am on 8 April, Israeli police accompanied more than 100 Occupation settlers in raids on the Silwan neighbourhood in East Jerusalem, raising Israeli flags upon and seizing possession of 15 Palestinian family homes and land. The aim of these and other seizures is to establish a Jewish majority in Jerusalem’s Old City and other neighbourhoods. While the Israeli Occupation refuses to allow Palestinians to build or restore buildings in Silwan, settlers are often enabled to do so. Hundreds more Palestinian-owned houses, in different areas of Silwan but mainly in Batn al-Hawa, Wadi Hilweh and al-Bustan, are under threat of demolition by the Israeli Occupation. The invaders believe that only Jews have the right to live there and, while the might of the Israeli military gives them a singular advantage, criticism of Israel is still condemned as ‘anti-Semitic‘!

Facebook alert

Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) believes that: “Facebook is set to make a decision very soon on whether to reinterpret some uses of the word ‘Zionist’ as anti-Semitic hate-speech under its Community Standards. We hope that, in the wake of our public campaign, driven by over fifty international movement partners, Facebook will decide against this dangerous policy change — one that would further prevent Palestinians from connecting with the world and sharing their experiences, and silence those of us organising to hold the Israeli government accountable. But we have to keep the pressure high.” JVP asks us to send an email now to decision-makers at Facebook to remind them: our communities are paying attention and ready to organise collectively in the face of a decision!

Shun Zionism’s anti-Semitism misnomer

The New Zealand Human Rights Commission is considering the possibility of adopting the IHRA definition of ‘anti-Semitism‘ but the term ‘anti-Semitism’ does itself require scrutiny. Even to condemn violations of international law, such as those exemplified in UN Security Council Resolution 2334, appears to invite accusations of ‘anti-Semitism’. The term is too often employed to imply that it is hatred towards Jews alone that drives opposition to Israel’s mistreatment of Palestinians. The problem for political Zionism is that many Jews, from all walks of life, are among the most outspoken and rational critics of the ideology. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude, as does the Encyclopaedia Britannica, that the expression ‘anti-Semitic‘ is a misnomer. Sadly, the term is now so widely accepted that even opponents of Zionism use it in everyday language. But there is now a growing movement to dismantle ‘anti-Semitism‘, as the US-based Jewish Voice for Peace has proposed.

An article, evaluating the Jerusalem Declaration on Antisemitism (JDA), written by Marilyn Garson and published on 9 April by Sh’ma Koleinu – Alternative Jewish Voices (NZ), points to the vagueness and contradictions of the IHRA-WDA definition and reminds us also that “even the authors of the IHRA-WDA have protestedagainst “the use to which their working document has been put.” In her article, Marilyn Garson disagrees with the IHRA-WDA assertion that criticism of Zionism and Israel is ‘anti-Semitic’ since it places the ideology of Zionism in the protected space of religion.” As the Alternative Jewish Voices (NZ) article says, “these unaccountable accusations distort the public understanding of antisemitism.” Accordingly, Sh’ma Koleinu asks “government, institutions and authorities to consider both definitions side by side” should they find themselves pressured to adopt the IHRA-WDA definition of ‘antisemitism’. Justice and human rights would be well served by the Human Rights Commission if it were to adopt a fresh and independent view of the subject with willingness to examine the matter more deeply. Zionism’s success in controlling the term ‘anti-Semitic’ has led even those who resolutely condemn Zionist inhumanity to quietly accept the term as legitimate. Granted, it is now universal in usage – but that ought not to mean it must never be challenged or scrutinised.

State terrorism

New Zealand has been exporting military equipment to Israel and continues to also import military equipment manufactured by Elbit Systems Limited, Israel’s largest weapons manufacturer. The company has been involved in grave breaches of international law that have been condemned by the International Court of Justice. Its contribution to military assaults targeting civilians have been documented by Human Rights Watch. Elbit even markets its drones as “battle tested”. Research by the Norwegian Government has revealed the extent of the company’s involvement in Israel’s annexation Wall. The Wall, that encroaches upon West Bank Palestinian land, has been condemned by the ICC as a serious breach of international law. A 10 April Palestine Solidarity Network Aotearoa press release, notes that even though the New Zealand Superfund has stopped investing in Elbit Systems because of its involvement in violations of international law, our Minister of Foreign Affairs, Nanaia Mahuta, is conforming with official advice “not to speak out about Israeli human rights abuses against Palestinians”.

In December 2016, New Zealand voted in favour of UN Security Council Resolution 2334 that condemns Israeli Occupation settlements as having no legal validity because they constitute “a flagrant violation under international law”. Having formally recognised Israel’s criminal behaviour, it would appear that we are still prepared to abandon its Palestinian victims. This policy is, of course, in step with that of the UK, whose Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs Minister, while not denying its war crimes, proceeds unashamedly to defend Israel and belittle its victims. In January, the acting US Envoy to the UN, Richard Mills, told the Security Council that the US would restore aid to Palestinians via UNRWA. But so that there could be no suggestion of holding Israel responsible, the Envoy took care to declare: “I must be clear, the US will maintain its steadfast support for Israel”.

However, the crimes committed by political Zionism have been exposed to such an extent now that, sooner or later, Israel will be made answerable. In the United States, by far Israel’s most dedicated ally, the Zionist Jewish National Fund (JNF) has suffered an unprecedented defeat in a Federal Court. At the end of March, a federal judge dismissed as “to say the least, not persuasive” a lawsuit filed by the JNF and others against the US Campaign for Palestinian Rights (USCPR). USCPR, one of the oldest and largest Palestine solidarity organisations in the United States, is a coalition of hundreds of groups working for freedom, justice and equality. This case exemplifies defence efforts by the Center for Constitutional Rights in support of activists, academics and organisations facing legal challenges to their advocacy for Palestinian human rights.

Unite for justice

All four of New Zealand’s Five Eyes partners repeatedly declare their commitment to ‘Israel‘s securitybut take care never to directly admit the same right for the Palestinian people. New Zealand should detach itself from the policies of ‘allies’ and ‘partners’ who show no determination to bring Israel to account. We should join the global, multi-cultural unity of movements that are demanding an end to Israel’s violations of international law. Zionism’s success in suppressing free speech is waning but we still have a long way to go. Whatever the Human Rights Commission determines in this matter, it is obliged to respect human rights and international law, especially the right to freedom of expression.

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Leslie Bravery is a Londoner with vivid World War Two memories of the Nazi blitz on his home town. In 1947/1948 His father explained to him what was happening to the Palestinians thus: “Any ideology or political movement that creates refugees in the process of realising its ambitions must be inhuman and should be opposed and condemned as unacceptable.” What followed confirmed this assessment of the Zionist entity a hundredfold. Now a retired flamenco guitarist, with a lifelong interest in the tragedy of what happened to the Palestinian people, he tries to publicise their plight. Because the daily injustices they suffer barely get a mention in the mainstream news media, Leslie edits/compiles a daily newsletter, In Occupied Palestine, for the Palestine Human Rights Campaign. These days, to preserve his sanity, he enjoys taking part in a drama group whenever possible!

33 COMMENTS

  1. The usual false and emotive nonsense we have become accustomed to from Bravery. The antisemites are understandably afraid of the IHRA definition of antisemitism, and rightly so. It is being widely adopted as fair-minded people everywhere accept that the term ‘anti-Zionist’ is merely a fig leaf for Jew hatred. There was never any massacre at Deir Yassin, the antisemites’ beloved old chestnut, and this lie has been well disproved.
    https://www.algemeiner.com/2019/12/26/setting-the-record-straight-on-allegations-against-israel/
    There was, however, a shocking massacre by Arabs in 1948 of Jewish doctors and nurses from the Hadassah hospital.
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-hadassah-convoy-massacre
    Just one of countless bloody massacres of Jews by the ‘Palestinians’ who are still aiming for genocide and willing to sacrifice their kids to achieve it.

    • So what are your points Gaby? Why would anyone be afraid of the self-serving definitions of a Zionist lobby group that few in the world even know exist? That Anti-Zionism is not a description of a political movement, which one of you links says it is? That all the evidence of what happened at Deir Yassan is a lie despite being, “condemned by the leadership of the Haganah—the Jewish community’s main paramilitary force— by the area’s two chief rabbis and famous Jews abroad like Albert Einstein, Jessurun Cardozo, Hannah Arendt, Sidney Hook and others.” Being one who delights in revenge, one would expect you to be impressed by, “The]shocking massacre by Arabs in 1948 of Jewish doctors and nurses from the Hadassah hospital. As for your last statement, commenters are tired of presenting the numerical facts that make a mockery of your stupid claims.

      Now – how about addressing Bravery’s comments in a logical factual manner instead of spewing the usual dross you dredge up! Otherwise, take the advice offered previously so that the adults can discuss matters without having to put up with your usual Zionist whining.

    • Denial is not a river in Egypt. The book you cite: “Deir Yassin: The End of the Myth” by Eliezer Tauber has not been able to find a publisher in English due to its lack of veracity which is understandable given the eyewitnesses testimony:

      “In the exchange that followed four [Irgun] men were killed and a dozen were wounded … by noon time the battle was over and the shooting had ceased. Although there was calm, the village had not yet surrendered. The Irgun and LEHI men came out of hiding and began to `clean’ the houses. They shot whoever they saw, women and children included, the commanders did not try to stop the massacre …. I pleaded with the commander to order his men to cease fire, but to no avail. In the meantime, 25 Arabs had been loaded on a truck and driven through Mahne Yehuda and Zichron Yousef (like prisoners in a Roman `March of Triumph’). At the end of the drive, they were taken to the quarry between Deir Yasin and Giv’at Shaul, and murdered in cold blood … The commanders also declined when asked to take their men and bury the 254 Arab bodies. This unpleasant task was performed by two Gadna units brought to the village from Jerusalem.”
      – Former Haganah officer, Col. Meir Pa’el, published by Yediot Ahronot (April 4, 1972):

      “I went into 6 to 7 houses. I saw cut off genitalia and women’s crushed stomaches. According to the shooting signs on the bodies, it was direct murder.”
      – Zvi Ankori, who commanded the Haganah unit that occupied Deir Yasin after the massacre – published by Davar on April 9, 1982:

      Dov Joseph, one time Governor of the Israel sector of Jerusalem and later Minister of Justice, called the Deir Yassin massacre “deliberate and unprovoked attack.”

      “According to Shai (Israeli Internal intelligence) commander Levy reported on April 12, 1948 that the occupation of Deir Yassin went as follows: “The occupation of the village was carried with great cruelty. Whole families… women, old people, children… were killed, and there were piles of dead [in various places]. Some of the prisoners moved to places of incarceration, including women and children, were murdered viciously by their captors.”

      ”The Shai operative who visited Deir Yassin hours after the massacre, Mordechai Gichen, reported on April 10, 1948: “Their commander says that the order was: to capture the adult males and to send the women and children to Motza. In the afternoon [of April 9, 1948], the order was changed and became kill all prisoners. . . . The adult males were taken to town in trucks and paraded in the city, then taken back to the [village] site and killed with rifle and machine-gun fire. Before they were put on the trucks, the IZL and LHI men searched the women, men, and Children [and] took from them all the jewelry and STOLE their money. The behavior toward them was especially barbaric [and included] kicks, shoves with rifle butts, spitting, and cursing (people from [the Western Jerusalem neighborhood of] Giv’at Shaul took part in the torture).”

      According to a count conducted by International Red Cross representative Jacques de Reynier, apart from bodies left lying in the streets, 150 corpses were found in one cistern alone, among them people who had been either decapitated or disemboweled.

      “The recording of statements is hampered also by the hysterical state of the women who often break down many times whilst the statement is being recorded. There is, however, no doubt that many sexual atrocities were committed by the attacking Jews. Many young schoolgirls were raped and later slaughtered. Old women were also molested. One story is current concerning a case in which a young girl was literally torn in two. Many infants were also butchered and killed. I also saw one old woman . . . who had been severely beaten about the head with rifle butts. Women had bracelets torn from their arms and rings from their fingers and parts of some of the women’s ears were severed in order to remove earrings.”
      – from the report made by CID Deputy Inspector General Catling for the British.

    • Testimonies From the Censored Deir Yassin Massacre: ‘They Piled Bodies and Burned Them’
      A young fellow tied to a tree and set on fire. A woman and an old man shot in back. Girls lined up against a wall and shot with a submachine gun. The testimonies collected by filmmaker Neta Shoshani about the massacre in Deir Yassin are difficult to process even 70 years after the fact……..
      … a new documentary film entitled “Born in Deir Yassin” by director Neta Shoshani, who devoted the past several years to comprehensive historical research on the Deir Yassin massacre, one of the constitutive incidents of the War of Independence, which has remained a blot on Israel to this day.

      In advance of the premiere screening of the film at the Jerusalem Film Festival, Shoshani showed Haaretz the testimonies she has gathered about the incident, the result of extensive digging in archives along with in-depth interviews with the last living participants in the action. Some of them broke a silence of decades when they spoke to her, often for the first time in front of a camera.
      https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/MAGAZINE-testimonies-from-the-censored-massacre-at-deir-yassin-1.5494094

      Born in Deir Yassin (2017) Complete Film with English Subtitles
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiLt5awzmyI

        • Ahh “Liberty University” – Jerry Falwell’s outfit. Great source Gaby. Wasn’t he the guy who said, in 1999, that the Antichrist would probably arrive within a decade and “of course he’ll be Jewish”? Strange company you are keeping.
          As you may have noticed, I tend to prefer Israeli witnesses and Historians such as Morris:
          “Interviewer: According to your findings, how many acts of Israeli massacre were perpetrated in 1948?

          Twenty-four. In some cases four or five people were executed, in others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field – they are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village – she is shot. There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing and killed anything that moved.

          The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-110), Lod (250), Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70). There is no unequivocal proof of a large-scale massacre at Tantura, but war crimes were perpetrated there. At Jaffa there was a massacre about which nothing had been known until now. The same at Arab al Muwassi, in the north. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram [in the north, in October 1948]: at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun, Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sasa. In Operation Hiram there was a unusually high concentration of executions of people against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion.

          That can’t be chance. It’s a pattern. Apparently, various officers who took part in the operation understood that the expulsion order they received permitted them to do these deeds in order to encourage the population to take to the roads. The fact is that no one was punished for these acts of murder. Ben-Gurion silenced the matter. He covered up for the officers who did the massacres.”
          http://www.logosjournal.com/morris.htm

          If you take the trouble to watch the movie “Born in Deir Yassin” through to the end you will find that there exist photographs of the carnage at Deir Yassin taken by an official photographer who describes the massacre in some detail:
          “At the Haganah Archive, where Shoshani continued her search – “like an naive child,” as she said – another surprise awaited her. “An older man came up to me, very hush-hush, took me to a side room and told me that he had taken pictures immediately after the massacre,” she said.

          “The man was Shraga Peled, 91, who at the time of the massacre was in the Haganah Information Service. He told Shoshani that after the battle he was sent to the village with a camera to document what he saw there. “When I got to Deir Yassin, the first thing I saw was a big tree to which a young Arab fellow was tied. And this tree was burnt in a fire. They had tied him to it and burned him. I photographed that,” he related. He also claims he photographed from afar what looked like a few dozen other corpses collected in a quarry adjacent to the village. He handed the film over to his superiors, he says, and since then he has not seen the photos.”

          The film maker seeks a Supreme Court order to have those photos released. The court, whilst acknowledging that the photos exist, refused on the basis that making them public would harm the Israeli State’s international reputation.
          I think we both know why that would be.
          As regards your Falwell University fact-free puff piece, one doesn’t have to read very far into it to find error. This:
          “As the Jews approached the village to attack it, they were led by a truck with a loudspeaker that warned civilians to flee” is patently false. To a man, those Irgun, Lehi and Hagganah operatives who performed the attack describe sneaking up the rise to the village silently and undercover. The loudspeaker trucks were employed in some instances to hasten the ethnic cleansing but that was later.

    • “There was, however, a shocking massacre by Arabs in 1948 of Jewish doctors and nurses from the Hadassah hospital.”
      To compare the Haddassah event with Deir Yassin is simply ridiculous.
      For a start, you are using the typical Zionist technique of pushing and pulling the timeline. Deir Yassin occurred four days before Hadassah so Hadassah cannot be cited as justification for the village massacre. If anything, Deir Yassin justifies Hadassah and was mentioned as retaliation in Palestinian accounts.
      Fact is, the “medical convoy” was a cover for a military operation. Even Wikipedia acknowledges this:
      “The Red Cross had offered to put Mount Scopus under its flag on condition that the area be demilitarized, but the Hadassah leaders declined the proposal”.
      Why?
      Because under cover of a medical mission, the Zionists were delivering arms and ammunition.
      Wikipedia again:
      The Jews claimed that they had the right to protect their medical convoys with troops. They admitted in the end, according to Jacques de Reynier, that they had been relieving the unit at the Hadassah hospital and furnishing the troop there with ammunition with the same convoys as those of the Red Shield. That practice was justified, they said, because the role of that troop was exclusively one of defending the hospital…

      De Reynier repeated the position of the Red Cross that a mobile medical unit must move around unarmed and always separately from combat units. One had a choice between having recourse to armed protection or the protection of the Geneva Conventions and the Red Cross flag. Both staging troops in a position of strategic importance and refurnishing them with supplies, de Reynier argued, had nothing to do with the hospital’s functions. The Jewish Agency had been prepared to have the troop stationed there withdrawn and its protection entrusted to the Red Cross but was overruled by the Haganah, which insisted that convoys to the hospital could not pass unless they went under military escort. De Reynier then volunteered to put this to the test with a practical proof that an unarmed convoy could pass.

      The following day, without warning the Arabs, he led a small column of vehicles under a Red Cross flag while the following cars displayed the red shield. Their passage passed without a shot, and de Reynier argued that to be proof that the Arabs respected the Red Cross. The result was that leaders on both sides eventually ordered that military operations were to be separated from activities associated with medical assistance and the Red Cross.

  2. Ignore the Israeli troll/s.
    Keep up the good work Leslie laying out facts and the history of this festering cult of criminal billionaire backed sect of murderers who cant stand criticism as they know their self imposed belief of superiority will be their downfall.

  3. Of course, Bravery neglects to include that Herzl was shocked and disheartened by the Dreyfus affair, not to mention gutted by the Russian pogroms of Jews in the late nineteenth century, which saw the massacres of thousand of Jewish men, women, and children. The worst was yet to come with the Holocaust, coinciding with Britain’s White Paper banning Jewish immigration to Palestine, and making a mockery of ‘colonial’ accusations cast at Israel. Herzl has been fully vindicated. The truth about him.
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/theodor-binyamin-ze-rsquo-ev-herzl

    • Gaby, if you post something that refutes their hatred of israel/jews they will just post something from someone- anyone, who says what they believe ignoring facts and history.
      Turkey refutes the armenian genocide but plenty of history and facts to show it happened, no different here when they post their ‘truth’ regarding Israel….i very much doubt they even open/read the links you post, it would hurt the snowflakes on here and they would need a safe space.

      • For what it is worth, Gaby seldom refutes anyone’s hatred of Israel/Jews. Like you have done here , he uses the classic techniques of re-visioning the basic facts of contributions then name calls, usually in the most appallingly dishonest manner. As for reading Gaby’s links, they generally fall into two categories. Most often they are distractions that have little if anything to do with the topic. Worse still, he obviously doesn’t read the responses. Either that, or he fails to recall what has been written. Otherwise, Gaby generally cites opinion pieces written by propagandists that when read, usually have no substance in facts and are easily refuted. YES, people read the crap he puts up!

        You are now invited to read Bravery’s contribution, Then argue HIS points with facts, reliable links and a hopefully, a damned sight more intellect than Gaby ever exhibits. Before you start, it is proposed that you should reconsider your offensive remarks if you want to join a rational debate.

        • Without attacking whoever Gaby is as a person, if he sincerely believes half the stuff he posts then readers here must realize a lot of what Gaby extols is irrational unfortunately.
          If he believes what he writes amid the confusion of his arguments, then reality is far from his mind and that can be given sympathy.
          But what can’t be excused is the attacks and hatred he projects towards other humans and viciousness in his personal attacks on bloggers here. The question of soundness of mind or BPD has to be considered and I don’t mean that unkindly.
          He may well invite retaliation which I am pleased to see few stoop to his methods of interaction.

          People like Leslie who have human empathy and share research and well established peer reviewed accounts of recent and past history, are a help to the fair minded readers who can consider Leslie’s contributions and interact with Leslie through this blog in a respectful manner.
          Keep it up Leslie and ignore the unfortunate trolls.

          • People like Leslie who have human empathy and share research and well established peer reviewed accounts of recent and past history, are a help to the fair minded readers who can consider Leslie’s contributions and interact with Leslie through this blog in a respectful manner.

            Very well said.

        • Ohh AOM…you think im rude/offensive when you post
          ‘Before you start, it is proposed that you should reconsider your offensive remarks if you want to join a rational debate.’

          And yet you reply to Gaby on another debate with;
          ‘Fuck off Gaby and let the adults communicate in peace without your constant infantile Zionist whining!’

          Glass houses and all that, or are you exempt?

          • gaby talks out of both sides of his mouth in a constant stream of lies and self contradictions ….

            ie: he claims is Israel is not racist or have Apartheid laws …. but then he acknowledges and SUPPORTS it’s anti-miscegenation laws ,,,

            These are two mutually exclusive postilions……

            ….. Unless we pretend is a hierarchy of racism, with Israel exempt.

            And that itself is racist.

            Are you against miscegenation and segregated schools too Imright ??? ,,,,, or are you more honest, or less racist, than gaby.

            Do you think Israel should drop these relics from the uncivilized past ,,, that Apartheid South Africa, and slavery days usa modeled their society’s around

            • there is a couple of typo’s in my above comment …. which should have read.

              .. Unless we pretend there is a hierarchy of racism, with Israel exempt.
              &
              Are you for miscegenation and segregated schools too Imright ??? ,,,,, or are you more honest, or less racist, than gaby.

          • Im right: To start, no-one suggested you are rude/offensive, the issue was with the nature of your unsupportable assumptions about others.

            As for Gaby, there has been a lengthy history of polite suggestions regarding his grossly disrespectful comments right through to this thread. The repeated variants of, ‘Fuck off Gaby and let the adults communicate in peace without your constant infantile Zionist whining!’ were more a message for him to give his disingenuous and derailing propagandist contributions a break, not a slight on himself as a person.

            Make of that what you will, but an informed debate (sans Zionist propaganda) on the facts regarding Bravery’s article would be appreciated.

          • They don’t intimidate me, im right. Interesting how they can believe that in the middle of a global pandemic and all its attendant woes the demonisation of Israel should be prioritised. This single fact alone exposes their delusion and derangement. They aren’t dangerous, though. More damp squibish.

            • I have a relative who has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder who also says she refuses to be intimidated when there is no evidence of intimidation. He also deflects in the same way as you.

              initially I was sceptical of the advice you were given by John W (see above) but now I have some sympathy for you and hope you heed John’s suggestion.

                • It’s called polarization. You, Gaby, have literally rejected every attempt to come together. No 2 state, 1 state or anything. I for one will mpt tolerate Israel’s treatment of Palestinians and I’m prepared to die I’m a ditch for what I believe. That’s it.

    • I have a compilation book with a large part of it over 2000 years old that points out various faults within members of the Jewish race that caused them to reject their divine purpose. I can accept people based on their actions & Zionism is just another selfish “ism” where people try to claim they are superior to other members of the human race as a convenient excuse to self justify their improper actions.

      • I guess you don’t consider the centuries of antisemitism, culminating in the Holocaust, justification for a people to crave sanctuary in their own ancestral homeland. Jews never displaced anyone. Arabs displaced themselves with their own violent, genocidal version of virulent antisemitism. They gambled, they lost, they pay the price.

        • “the centuries of antisemitism”
          – during which:
          Moses Maimonides (1138–1204) was appointed Nagid (Prince) by the Egyptian Government.

          Mehmed II (1432 – 1481) invited Jews from all over his empire be resettled in Constantinople. His Finance Minister was Jewish and those Romaniote Jews would be the most influential community in the Empire until that position was lost to a wave of Sephardic immigrants.

          In July 1492, Bayezid II sent out the Ottoman Navy to Spain in 1492 in order to evacuate Spanish Jews safely to Ottoman lands. Many of these families brought great fortunes with them. The most notable of the Jewish banking families in the 16th-century Ottoman Empire was the Marrano banking house of Mendès, which moved to and settled in Istanbul in 1552 under the protection of sultan Suleiman I the Magnificent. When Alvaro Mendès arrived in Istanbul in 1588, he is reported to have brought with him 85,000 gold ducats (millions in today’s dollars). The Mendès family soon acquired a dominating position in the state finances of the Ottoman Empire and in commerce with Europe.

          The Rothschild family rose to prominence with Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744–1812), becoming one of the wealthiest families in the World and remain so today.

          Benjamin Disraeli, 1st Earl of Beaconsfield, KG, PC, MP, FRS ( 1804 – 1881), was twice Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, serving in 1868 and from 1874 to 1880.

          Sir Sassoon Eskell, KBE (1860 – 1932) was regarded in Iraq as the Father of Parliament. His brother was the Minster of Finance for that country.

          Sigismund Schlmo Freud, 1856 – 1930 became hugely (and wrongly in my view) influential.

          Lewin Louis Aronsohn (1850 – 1928) was a member of the regional parliament of the Province of Posen (Poznań), the Prussian House of Representatives and the Prussian Constitutional Assembly.

          Ludwig Bamberger (1823 – 1899) was an elected a member of the Reichstag.

          There are currently 10 Jewish senators and 27 Jewish members of the House of Representatives in the U.S.

          – these are just a few examples gathered at random. There are literally thousands more and, yes, there were pogroms and atrocities. But do you need reminding of the Highland clearances in Scotland, Slavery which took an estimated 10 million African lives, the virtual extinction of the Native Americans, the Irish famine, the dispossession of our own native Maori, the persecution of Hugenots, Christians, Papists, the Holodomor (an estimated 30 million dead allegedly at the hands of Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich, who was Jewish and whom you seem reluctant to discuss) ?

          Your entire thesis rests on an idea that has invaded your thinking and that is that Jewish History is somehow unique. It is not. There is not anyone living on this planet who cannot trace his or her ancestry through some dreadful circumstances. What is unique about Zionist Jews is that they seem to feel that what happened to some of their supposed ancestors entitles them to ethnically cleanse and slaughter another ethnic group. As Erich Fromm (another influential Jewish thinker) put it:
          “In general international law, the principle holds true that no citizen loses his property or his rights of citizenship; and the citizenship right is de facto a right to which the Arabs in Israel have much more legitimacy than the [European] Jews. Just because the Arabs fled? Since when is that punishable by confiscation of property and by being barred from returning to the land on which a people’s forefathers have lived for generations? Thus, the claim of the Jews to the land of Israel cannot be a realistic political claim. If all nations would suddenly claim territories in which their forefathers had lived two thousand years ago, this world would be a madhouse.”

          • Cherry-picking a few moments in history when individual Jews or small groups were favoured doesn’t cut it, Brewer, as you well know. What arrant nonsense. Based on numbers in Roman times there should be around 200 million Jews today and there are only 14.7 million. Two out of every three Jews in Europe were slaughtered in the Holocaust alone. You have filled your head with what you believe are clever responses and they are vacuous, truth-denying twaddle. The Holocaust IS unique, the greatest stain on humanity, and your pathetic attempts to trivialise it are deplorable. As for the stupid claim that Jews ‘invaded and slaughtered’ an ethnic group, this truly shows how utterly deluded and deranged you are. The Palestinian population has increased 7-fold since 1948. Some slaughter! Give it up and stop making a fool of yourself. Cite some irrefutable evidence of Arabs living in Israel 3,000 years ago.
            Here’s the latest proof of Jewish indigeneity for you.
            https://www.livescience.com/51223-king-david-era-inscription-discovered.html

            • “Cherry-picking a few moments in history when individual Jews or small groups were favoured…”
              – as opposed to cherry picking a few moments in history when individual Jews or small groups were persecuted?

              What it looks like to me is that you are informed by a popularised view of History that is no longer tenable. In the case of Russia for example:
              “…a new school of Russian Jewish history writing emerged in the 1970s and 1980s, first in the United States, then in Israel, and finally in post-Soviet Russia itself. This school views the Russian state’s treatment of Jews comparatively, as part of the overall nationalities policy of the empire, a policy always marked by contradiction and bureaucratic ineptitude. In this view, antisemitism was not the motivating force of the government’s treatment of Jews, which in general was consistent with, or in some cases milder than, its treatment of other groups. Jews were largely permitted to continue their traditional way of life and education of their young, as opposed to other minorities whose native languages and school systems were outlawed by the state. Perhaps most controversially, the new school of Russian Jewish historiography argues that pogroms against Jews were not orchestrated or even approved of by the state, but were rather spontaneous and unplanned outbreaks of urban violence caused by social and economic forces beyond the control of the Russian army or police.”
              – The Yivo Encyclopaedia of Jews in Eastern Europe.

              “Based on numbers in Roman times there should be around 200 million Jews today and there are only 14.7 million.”
              Given that Jews constituted 10% of the Roman population does this mean that there should be 2,000 million Romans today? I am having some difficulty with your reasoning here.

              I’m afraid a few pottery fragments bearing an inscription of the name of David don’t actually constitute proof of anything much, let alone Jewish indigeneity. I refer you to Yisrael Finkelstein, professor emeritus at Tel Aviv University:
              “In 1999, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz published a front-page story about this controversial new frontier in archeology. Written by Ze’ev Herzog, a colleague of Finkelstein’s, it was titled “The Bible: No Evidence on the Ground.” Herzog wrote, “Following seventy years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs’ acts are legendary, the Israelites did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, they did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon, nor of the source of belief in the God of Israel. These facts have been known for years, but Israelis are a stubborn people, and no one wants to hear it.”
              https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/29/in-search-of-king-davids-lost-empire

            • Sorry old girl. I’m with these Jewish organisations:
              If Not Now
              International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network
              Jewish Voice for Peace
              Jews Against Anti-Muslim Racism
              Jews for Racial & Economic Justice
              The Jewish Vote
              Kavod Boston
              Arab Jewish Partnership for Peace and Justice
              Jewish Voice for Peace Rabbinical Council
              Jews Say No!
              Nashville Jews for Justice
              Progressive Jews of St. Louis
              …..and hundreds of other groups who have signed up to DropTheADL.org.
              https://droptheadl.org/signatories/

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