Finally a reason to vote for the Greens!

By
Martyn Bradbury
-
92
1994

BOOM!

For the first time in 3 years, the Greens finally give a reason why New Zealander’s should vote for them, and I’m genuinely surprised and pleased.

The middle class woke identity politics, which has been so toxically alienating for the Greens and is why they have been floundering in the Polls, has been sidelined in favour of genuine social justice in welfare and a real economic philosophy of taxing the rich.

$325 after tax in basic welfare!

Plus increases in child payment benefits!

Plus increases to working for families payments!

Plus tax bracket increases for the wealthiest NZers!

Plus reforming ACC!

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These are all brilliant ideas, and after 3 years of disappointment, I’m genuinely surprised and pleased with what they have brought to the table here. Could it have been more radical? Sure, but after the identity politics fuckwittery of the last 3 years, being able to get through a conference without demanding a vegan mummy blogger PoC free the nipple militant cyclist and trans ally protest march is an enormous success.

This is a game changer for the Greens and if they are able to stay on this message, I believe they have every chance now of returning to Parliament.

Well done. As a Green voter I am pacified!

 

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92 COMMENTS

  2. Strongly disagree.

    I feel their plan to tax the wealthy is completely flawed. Their understanding of what constitutes wealthy is just wrong on so many levels.

    I have multiple health professionals in my clan. Three earn just on 100k a year and can’t afford to buy a home in Auckland, yet according to the Greens, they are wealthy. They pay an obscene 33 cents in the dollar tax so it’s more than just difficult to get ahead. All three pay in excess of $1000 in income tax a fortnight, yet are unable to save $100 a week due to the high cost of living here. To describe them as wealthy would be a total misrepresentation of the facts. Now the Greens want to lift their tax level to 37 cents in the dollar. Fuck off! Medical professionals in Australia for example already earn in excess of 30k more for doing exactly the same roles as my three family members. Our health system is concerned by so many NZ health professionals that are choosing to work offshore to the point we now have our health system dominated by recent immigrants. It’s epic false economy and the Greens want to make that situation even worse and completely untenable. Why? So beneficiaries are more comfortable living on their benefits. Where exactly is the incentive for kiwis to work? I’m sympathetic and empathetic toward most people on benefits. We know and accept however that a % of beneficiaries are living long term on benefits by choice. They manage to double and treble their family size while being on a benefit and now the Greens want to make it easier and more comfortable to do that.

    I’m all in favour of increasing benefits but the Greens plan is poorly thought through and will end up achieving the wrong things.

    1) Make life easier living on benefits, especially those that don’t want to work.
    2) Give incentives for people to choose to live on a benefit long term to stay there.
    3) Discourage workers trying to get ahead.
    4) Make life even harder for health professionals etc already struggling to make progress.
    5) Force more of our best people to move offshore to make progress.
    6) Build resentment toward beneficiaries from people that normally support them.

    My answer is change what they say constitutes “wealth” and run it alongside the cost of living etc. 300k would be a reasonable starting point. 100k is fucking ridiculous. Green MP’s will be earning between 160k and 300k a year. They have perks coming out of the ears and virtually every expense paid for by the tax payer. They will mostly have many options with their untouched salary and have lost their bearings

    • @Jacindafan, totally agree 100%

      The problem is that NZ is too busy trying to give peanuts to more and more people who are now getting poorer and needing the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, while not concentrating on making sure that the cost of living in NZ is fair and consumer laws are fair and ensure that more people in this country are getting richer so don’t require benefits.

      Wage increases would remove people off benefits, and allow a much higher standard of care for those on benefits for those that require them, (aka at present, conditions not improving for disabled people on benefits. Aka disabled facilities and care services are being closed down, privatised/made into ‘charities’ by stealth and poorer quality and less regulated, instead).

      How can you be on $120,000 to qualify for a Kiwibuild affordable home for example then government somehow decide, that someone on $100k is rich and needs to pay more taxes?

      We now have an incredible rise of the working poor in NZ, meanwhile our poverty advocates seem more interested in worrying about non citizens family members benefits, than our own people whose standards of living are declining in most aspects, in particular our spectacularly low wages here and declining education and health care outcomes.

    • Agree 100 per cent with all your comments. It will be interesting to see the next poll. I am sure many hard working Labour voters who have saved or run a business will be worried by this idea especially if Greens say it is a bottom line to come in as a coalition partner

    • Do you know the difference between what is their stated policy, and what they will be able to do if returned to parliament in government? Assuming the Labour party needs to form a coalition to govern.. Your comment is based more on your own personal bigotries than any real logical perspective, and is based on nothing more than a set of assumptions.. This is why NZers can’t have nice things… Too many small minded, and unrealistic attitudes.. I got trapped here when lockdown happened, and I’ve since discovered that the availability of equipment/goods in this country is still nearly as bereft as it got when Key the corporate whore was selling the country to anyone who had the money to buy….Not to mention the amnesia people here have when it comes to some of the more ridiculous laws, and regulations that were imposed by the corporate whores in the National party Will happily fly out to a real 21st century country, and wait for a real government in this country to get some actual progress made, without having the handbrake that NZFirst is, interfering with the agenda.. If this is what passes for informed debate in this country, then your only future is to learn Mandarin, or get used to the American accents of the people you will be working for…

    • So you’re as much a ReaganFan as anything else Jacindafan ,,,, Bloody welfare queens breeding for money eh ?. ,,,, or perhaps you’re a RuthRichardsonFan?,,,, keep em below the poverty line ,,, make their kids suffer..

      And You do realise it is tax money that funds the salarys paid to the workers in our public health system ?.

      You do realise it is the tax system and money laundering that has excluded honest workers from the speculative orgy of Auckland property prices??.

      Perhaps you are a Jacinda fan because of Labours complicity with John Keys pro money laundering secrecy legislation ?…. ie: Donald Trump helps Russian criminals and others launder their money by allowing total secrecy in buying and owning expensive apartments in Trump Towers and his other property scams …. Labour has reviewed and allowed secrecy to remain in the ownership and control of New Zealand Trusts ,,, “The New York Penthouse sold by Laogumnerd was held under a company that was based in New Zealand named (15Cpw Phb Ptc (Nyc) Limited) – likewise, many of Jho’s family trusts were also set up in NZ.” https://www.sarawakreport.org/2017/10/jhos-thai-ties-sprout-further-links-and-insights/

      Labour has reviewed our Trust laws ,,, and allowed secrecy TO CONTINUE ,,, “the vast majority of trusts are actually tax-evading shams, as anyone in the financial world knows full well.” ,,,, “Time and again, investigators like Sarawak Report find themselves tracing large businesses linked to, for example, Malaysian politicians like Taib Mahmud, only to find the money disappearing behind New Zealand trusts.

      This was thrown into glaring perspective by the Panama Papers, which revealed how shadowy businessmen the world over were all choosing distant New Zealand to park their money. ” https://www.sarawakreport.org/2017/01/trust-us-new-zealand-can-hide-your-money/

      https://www.sarawakreport.org/2017/07/australia-and-new-zealand-slide-from-their-responsibilities-over-mass-corruption-and-malaysia/

      Seeing as Labour ,,, and Winston Peters are content to let the rot remain , ie ” “The New Zealand Government have notably refused to extend to the full transparency that would actually be expected of a benchmark regime i.e. an open register where journalists and others could cross reference potentially illegal activity.

      This means that, for example, Sarawak Report is unable to inform Malaysians whether Jho Low and his family are one of the few to have re-registered their trust in New Zealand.” …. Then the greens should network with their counterparts all around the world ,,, and utilise the research and resources of people like Craig West https://www.michaelwest.com.au/australias-top-40-tax-dodgers-2020-fossil-fuels-dominate-once-more/ ,,,, to fight for change and the good of the 99% ,,,,

      Jacindafan and Labour may find this taxation obscene ,,,, but maybe jacidafan knows something about Jacida that we do not?.

      “These reasons for excluding trusts from beneficial ownership transparency are “remarkable for having been expressed out loud,” says Pol.

      “Homer Simpson’s response comes most immediately to mind. ‘Doh’.”

      “A preliminary assessment suggests that the proposed changes might be summarised in three words. Almost completely useless,” Pol says.

      “It may be a new government, but it seems that much the same level of critical thinking appears to have been applied as with the last government’s” https://www.interest.co.nz/business/94540/anti-money-laundering-expert-ron-pol-labels-governments-reasons-excluding-trusts-its

      • reason,

        Ironic name for a poster displaying illogical reason.

        You make a list of assumptions, all of which are incorrect so congratulations on your 100% fail.

      • Kiwijoker – Not necessarily true; medical school professors/lecturers are salaried public servants – the top ones have traditionally not engaged in lucrative private practice, they’ve not got the time.

        There are Kiwi med professionals who contribute as volunteers in various arena, globally, not seeking or wanting public recognition- the “Look at me I’m a rich boy”, are rarely top professionals of any sort, but the common little vulgarians like Key and that dreadful woman.

          • @ Jonathan – Because I, unlike her, I don’t like to kick people when they’re down, I will not identify which of the above three I was referring to now that she is resigning.

            (Monica Lewinsky was probably OK – she was just a kid, enthralled by a President who came to NZ and was reported to have left uprightly saying, “I did not have sex with that woman”, referring to our then PM – you know.)

      • Kiwijoker,

        Of course you do knob end. What positions do they hold? Your ignorance is staggering.

        I have over a dozen medical professionals in my clan. The highest-paid is a consultant anesthetist in Wellington. He also does considerable private sector work and at aged 60, he earns 350k.

        My daughter is a health professional who has been in charge of intensive care units and cancer wards. She’s only recently graduated under the Waitemata DHB to 100k. It even took strike action to get that much.

        My sister is a clinical leader at Plunket after 15 years as an intensivist at Christchurch hospital and 10 years at Plunket. She has a team of 26 nurses under her and earns 105k.

        My sister in law is in charge of a Haematology unit and only recently had her salary exceed 100k.

        Three of the above are renting and unable to afford to buy a home in Auckland.

        Compare those salaries with the equivalent in Australia and you’ll see they are at least 30k better off and in some cases, considerably more. NZ has lost thousands of health professionals offshore and the salary was a big factor there. Increasing the tax rate on people like these who the Greens categorize as “wealthy” highlights exactly what I said was correct.

        But a zero says he has four medical people in his family earning obscene money.

        TOTAL BULLSHIT,

        unless one of the following applies.

        1) You’re are on the dole and anything over 24k a year is obscene money to you.
        2) Your four family members live in Australia,
        3) You are the ONLY person in NZ that has 4 health professionals in his family earning obscene money. Those four must be cardiac surgeons and senior consultants.

        Conclusion.

        You are totally full of shit…so

        Fuck off Noddy!

        • +1 Jacindafan

          The same people who are rah, rah for Kiwibuild, which was for supporting housing for incomes up to $120,000 are now rah, rah, thinking that $100k is a large amount of income. I don’t get it.

    • While I agree with you that people may appear wealthy on paper that are poor in reality. Your right wing talking points about welfare are a joke and shows the sorry state of our party. Labour should increase benefits.

      We can virtue signal about kindness and child poverty until the cows come home but unless we are going to reform welfare and raise benefits to a livable level it’s all talk and spin. Labours absolutely depressing refusal to even raise disability benefits is a disgrace and shows hatred to th disabled. The idea that people will chose to stay home if they are given more than $250 a week on unemployment benefits is a lie and Tony Blair was far to the left of Jacinda on welfare and nothing, nothing labour or the govt does is going to radically reduce poverty or child poverty until we increase benefits, everything else is a waste of money and just pr spin.

      As for tax reform yes the middle class are hurting and people can be well off on paper but poor in reality but Labour has to reform tax, it’s unacceptable to have cleaners paying more tax than MPS and Labour is the party of the working class it is not the party of making excuses for the bourgeoisie. Maybe the starting date should be higher but ffs the idea that Labour are against a more progressive tax system is utterly depressing. Just change the damn party name to the liberal party. I’m depressed as a labour member, anything mildly left wing gets shit on immediately. It’s fine if Labour doesn’t wanna be on the center left and just wants to be dead center , absolutely fine, just change the party name.

    • I disagree. From what I have read this effects 4% of the population.
      The whole business of Trusts needs to be re-looked at, mostly it is a crock.

      They need to state the best possible policy if they are to have credibility in the social justice sector, and I think this is great policy. Those people currently on welfare voting for labour should stop. Labour do nothing for the 3 poorest electorates in the country except gather up their votes every 3 years. If people truly understood what this could mean for them they although they may have been ‘tribal’ voting they might consider voting Greens.

      They can’t just as you can’t know what their position will be after the election within parliament and whether they will be able to achieve this policy. Down with Winston and his lot!

      I am curious to know if you see yourself as a ‘lefty’ why you wouldn’t vote Greens, I have left the party disappointed about some of their movies after 17 years, but I will vote for them because frankly Ardern’s lot have done nothing serious about poverty as far as I can see other than tinker around the edges. And so far the Greens are the best we have got.

      • Trust are not all the same.
        Some family trusts are floated by folk who have been through a relationship break up and wish to secure the residue of their home or savings for the children should another break up occur.
        Such a family trust pays 30% tax on all income no matter how modest.
        It is hard for a parent or adult to protect their home or savings before entering a new relationship.
        A trust is the only sure and fair way.

    • @ Jacindafan Agree with you 100%. When I saw Davidson’s statement that some people have more money than they need, I was stunned by her insolence and naivety.

      I support a CGT, and not opposed to increased taxation, but not this way – it’s unrealistic.

      Nor is it Davidson’s business, or mine, to judge other’s “needs”; this sickly censoriousness is a scary echo of Mao Tsetung’s red guards; I have more chairs than I need – does she want them too ?

      I’ve also family of medical professionals; lived nearly ten years in London, where my spouse worked at four teaching hospitals, training as a specialist.We were poor – it was hard; I’d get a shilling’s worth of cat meat from the butcher and mince it; bought our first home in New Zealand ten years after our contemporaries when prices had risen – maybe starting to catch up when he died.

      Our top performers have nearly always gone offshore to gain training and expertise, often at great personal sacrifice, following up with overseas sabbaticals, all which I suggest Davidson, with a limited, wishy-washy-looking work history of what look like grievance issues may have little acquaintance or knowledge.

      It’s ideal if industry and talent does return here, but those who find it an asphyxiating small pond, may not come back if they are going to be financially penalised for doing so.

      I can understand why some could resent a mother of six children, expecting hard-working others to support her. Some have trusts, and some IWI are very rich, but Davidson’s referencing of “millionaires”
      suggests that she’s that gunning for individuals, and I do fear that this could be another one of her divisive tactics of turning people against each other, as with Pakeha and the police, simply because this may be her nature, and I think that Davidson appears to be too racially prejudiced for modern politics.

      Back to the drawing board – some basic issues here could be simplified OK, but the Green’s seem to have once again missed the poti regarding how Kiwis existing out in the real world are likely to react to their social engineering – it’s quite tough for all sorts.

    • Jacindfan!!! OMG…can’t believe it but I totally agree with you. So well written.
      More to the green point…is that policy the latest environmental policy from the Greens? I am told they are all about saving the planet…yes? Or are they all about being the same as Labour now?
      You see, if they were only half focussed on being green, instead of wearing the latest Armani gear, then I would give them my money – and vote for them.
      Sorry Martyn, this is NOT a reason to vote Green. You have that badly wrong.

    • The tax rate is not too high at all.
      Your friends may pay 33% on the money they get above $70K but progressively less in the tax brackets below that.

      Housing prices are too high.

      In my younger days I was taxed equivalent to 67% in the top tax bracket that my contract work took me into . There was no way passed it.

      Tax is not where our money disappears. The expenses of housing, supermarket markup, commuting an transport and consumer life style.

      • +1 John W, the issues are that when you were taxed at 67% the goods were a lot cheaper and we did not have user pays everything. Well paid jobs were plentiful and you could run a family on one income.

        There was access to a free tertiary education, non means tested family credit, super, support for buying your first home…

        But if you earn $100k now,

        Then you are paying 12.5% GST
        12% off your student loan over $20k
        2 – 4 % Kiwisaver…

        So potentially you are then paying 50 – 60% taxes already…

        You then factor in, NZ public transport and childcare that is one of the highest in the world in terms of income.

        School donations per child, school uniforms. Prescription charges, $60 to see a doctor. Nothing is really free in NZ unless you kick up a fuss or have a community services card. School ‘activity’ fees for everything, swimming, school books…

        Also factor of modern times is being made redundant or being self employed and wages that are declining in real terms… On top of that you are paying your own taxes in the gig economy.

        You then need to then pay an accountant or tax advisor nowadays, and expect to have significant periods with no income..

        Gen X also have their parents to think about, being ripped off by Rymans types and supporting them as they get older.

        You then have a mortgage, or rent to pay for, and the woke telling you how ‘rich’ you are and you should ‘pay more’ to provide for often future citizens made up of migrant students with flakey ‘masters’ degrees, labourers, burger flippers and retail assistants into NZ’s neoliberal “skill” shortages. Once you get a NZ visa, then you can get your entire family of dependants into NZ.

        Funny enough the aged care nurses on the skills lists are paid a lot less than other nurses like hospital nurses, but instead of pay parity, the rest of the country is expected to prop up the dysfunctional and profiteering private retirement industry full of big business players with their cheap arse wages.

        The new Green deal Greens that the majority of people in NZ are on a benefit and somehow the country keeps running and we can still collect taxes and get decent services from our dwindling high income earners and middle class does not seem like utopia to me… more like we will be full of indifferent workers who have been in the job 5 minutes and are focused on their short term goals…

    • Great comment Jacindafan!

      What you so aptly described is the work of the famous economist, Arthur Laffer who advised both Reagan and Thatcher.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Laffer

      He figured out that when taxes become punitive, tax payers respond in various ways to avoid paying it. These include, investing in tax shelters, leaving the country, doing less taxable work, or in some cases even tax evasion. So the result of a tax increase is often less tax revenue.

      Good examples of this are:

      > Helen Clark increasing the marginal rate to 39% and quickly seeing a drop in tax revenue. She learned her lesson and quickly reduced it.

      > Margaret Thatcher drastically cutting taxes in the UK and the result was an increase in revenue. In the previous era under Harold Wilson, tax rates were horrific (The Beatles even wrote a song about it) but once taxes were reduced to reasonable levels, rich people and their money returned to the UK and invested there, to the benefit of all. I abandoned the UK in ’76 after being laid off twice – where there is no investment, there is no work.

  3. They also need a Think Big 2.0 for decarbonization, and to think about embracing nuclear power and GE.

    • Never never never nuclear, what are you thinking we campaigned for years against that madness!

      The elephant in the room is indeed GST – wonder who put that there… oh Labour!

        • No it doesn’t, not by a long shot. Solar and wind both have less embedded carbon emissions in them, and can generate free power for decades without causing emissions.

          Nuclear is the most expensive way to generate electricity, creates loads of very long term radioactive waste, and is basically totally uneconomic. Most plants now take over a decade to build and have to be financed by governments who are desperate to preserve the nuclear industry so they have resources to keep making nuclear weapons.

          No where in the world does private industry finance nuclear power because the cost to build is so high and they can’t reliably predict the cost over the ten years it takes to build. Running costs are high too because the fuel cycle from mining to use to disposal is so complex.

          Think about this too – why would we waste 10 years building a single plant (NZ would only need one), for a cost in excess of $US 10 billion dollars (e.g. the 2 standard nuclear stations at the Vogtle plant in the US completed in 1987 and 1989 cost $US16 billion in 2018 dollars and the other two they were building were projected to cost in excess of $US25 billion), and be at the mercy of overseas supply chains such that we couldn’t service or maintain them ourselves?

          Much better to build solar and wind incrementally. Even massive plants can be built in under a year for minimal financing cost, and running cost is essentially nothing.

    • Nuclear power is the most expensive going and that is without cleaning up the massive quantity of radioactive waste stored on cooling tanks around the world with no where to go.
      Nuclear disaster in Japan should give a glimpse of what insurmountable problems from waste lie ahead.

      GE. Are you a shareholder of the monster Monsanto.

  4. Yep can understand how this greens announcement will be of appeal to some, but why oh why are none of the political parties and political commentators commenting on the farkn great elephant in the room that is the main cause of keeping NZ/AO citizens poor. GST!
    Get rid of GST and we all get an indirect 15% pay rise “boom”

    • oh come on one thing at a time, mateee.

      the left lack the experience for huge sweeping reforms. We don’t have high interest rates we have low interest rates, we are not dealing with a world war we are dealing with corona. we don’t have Savage we have Jacinda.

      So what we really need is to test things out on a smaller scale before big national interest policy is rolled out nationally.

    • No, it’s residential property speculation and exorbitant rents. That’s why beneficiaries and even working couples are in a poverty trap. Have the courage to stop foreigners from buying property here and levy CGT on all but the family home. By all means take GST off food.

  5. Martyn. “if they are able to stay on this message..”

    Marama. “Here, hold my kombucha cant.”

  6. Since there is almost nothing green about any of their policies, all they need to do now is change their name from Green to something more in keeping with their BAU policies. It would have be something innocuous. It couldn’t be New Socialists or Social Equity -such names would scare the punters and bring on the wrath of the money-lenders and exploiters

    Maybe the Make NZ Great Again party.

    What is so fascinating is that NZ politics is still all about BAU, even as the globalised financial-economic system collapses under the burden of fraud, resource depletion, overpopulation and environmental degradation, and Cocvid-19, which was the ‘wind’ that pushed over the house of cards.

    And Trump, of course, who has played an important role in demolishing BAU by trying to promote BAU in the bizarre manner he has.

    If course, there is nothing new about the American narrative being counterproductive; it has been for decades. There is no surer way to bring about resilience than to be the subject of American sanctions. Thus, after ‘Making Cuba Great Again’, the US has been ‘Making Iran Great Again’.

    “Iran after the revolution was all about social justice. It set up a very elaborate health care network, similar to Cuba’s, but with more funding. A large hospital network. When the coronavirus hit, the US was even preventing Iran to get test kits. Yet the system – not the private sector – managed. There was no full shutdown. Everything was under control. The numbers – even contested by the West – they do hold. Iran is now producing everything it needs, tests, face masks. None of the hospitals are full.”

    “But because of the sanctions, most of the hurt had already happened. The economy is now running without oil revenue. In Tehran, you don’t even notice it. It’s nothing compared to Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Turkey or the UAE. Workers from Pakistan and India are leaving the Persian Gulf in droves. Dubai is dead. So, in comparison, Iran did better in dealing with the virus. Moreover, harvests last year and this year have been positive. We are more self-reliant.”…

    Still, Russia-China continue to back Iran on all fronts, for instance rebuking the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) for giving in to US “bullying” – as the IAEA’s board last week passed a resolution submitted by France, Britain and Germany criticizing Iran for the first time since 2012.

    Another key foreign policy front is Venezuela. Tehran’s soft power, in quite a spectacular manner keenly observed all across the Global South, de facto ridiculed Washington’s sanctions/blockade in its own Monroe Doctrine “backyard”, when five Iranian tankers loaded with gasoline successfully crossed the Atlantic and were received by a Venezuelan military escort of jets, helicopters, and naval patrols.

    That was in fact a test run. The Oil Ministry in Tehran is already planning a round two of deliveries to Caracas, sending two or three cargos full of gasoline a month. That will also help Iran to offload its huge domestically produced fuel.

    The historic initial shipment was characterized by both sides as part of a scientific and industrial cooperation, side by side with a “solidarity action”.

    And then, this past week, I finally confirmed it. The order came directly from Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei. In his own words: “The blockade must be broken”. The rest is – Global South – history in the making.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/escobar-why-iran-wont-be-broken

    So, any nation closely aligned with America and attempting to push BAU is in deep trouble. That is especially true of any nation like NZ that is dependent on imported oil -something the so-called Greens are silent about, just as they are silent about the accelerating Planetary Meltdown which is a consequence of BAU.

    https://scripps.ucsd.edu/programs/keelingcurve/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/graphs/co2_800k.png

    • Perhaps you need to read the Greens Kaupapa – they arose out of the Values Party and they have never JUST been about environmental matters. They have always had policies on social justice!

  7. They have laid it out, bye bye WINZ/MSD if there is a Labour/Green Govt. Surely rolling back neo liberalism is THE political priority this election, given the massive changes Covid has and will continue to impose?

    Sure the Green Anti Poverty Policy may need refining, but–they have done what Labour has not had the guts to do–they are essentially staring down the monetarist orthodoxy and structural components of Neo Liberalism encapsulated in the NZ State and Parliament.

    Unite all who can be united to return a Labour/Green Govt. This policy announcement will have Jacinda’s “filthy few” Blairites in Caucus bricking themselves, so quite a lot of pressure will have to be put on via widespread peoples support to get our NZ Green’s “new welfare deal” happening.

    • Exactly as I said in a post in my facebook group under funding of medicine by pharmac yesterday re the greens policy. We need to back the greens to hold the flame to labours feet or the situation will remain the same as it is now. Go to the greens website and fill in the form to back the policy.

  8. New Zealand hasn’t had anything like this set of policies, (or even proposed) for over 40 years now. Been waiting for this 2nd pillar of the Green platform for decades now. It’s becoming apparent to all, that to be green you need to be progressive, and to be a progressive, a green agenda is integral. Blue/Green is just a laughable contradiction. The need for a wealth tax and the return of progressive tax rates is long overdue. The Capital Gains tax was always fiddly unpopular and inconsistent to implement. The UBI is modest but it needs to be. I’d also recommend a reduction in GST to 10% etc. Looks like the Suns finally coming out.

  9. Still waiting for the environmental focus from the Green Party.

    We have earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, droughts, landslides, wildfires, Covid and other human and animal pandemics (current thinking is that Covid is caused by poor animal hygiene and eating of wildlife and has transferred the virus across), environmental including fauna and flora destruction… these are far more pressing to societies way of life going forward… but the one party that is supposed to care, has put it all on a back burner…

    There are too many rubber stamping agencies in NZ that do nothing and are part of the problem.

    Environment watchdog has never brought a prosecution

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/03/10/1074422/no-prosecutions-ever-from-environmental-protection-authority?fbclid=IwAR2Al3Zn0Tsj6MSHVOJRI6dD-CgEbOwKaw2aJgyT792nAueHBXitYW6u33I

    EPA’s ‘inappropriate’ reaction to student’s speech
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117378375/epas-inappropriate-reaction-to-students-speech

    Was former EPA chief scientist Jacqueline Rowarth muzzled?
    https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/currently-profiles/jacqueline-rowarth-was-former-epa-chief-scientist-muzzled?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=LISTENER_newsletter_20-08-2018&utm_term=list_nzlistener_newsletter

  10. The problem is that benefit increases are meaningless, as NZ has got rubber stamping consumer laws that are pro rip off consumers, water, power, consumer goods, supermarkets, banks, insurance.

    Businesses here don’t even bother to answer their phones…

    Briscoes customer waits five hours on hold to cancel order – then takes action
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12343620

    They don’t have to provide the goods and services that people paid for in NZ, if they don’t deliver them.

    Virgin Australia tells customers with cancelled flights it can’t give refunds or credit
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/121913342/virgin-australia-tells-customers-with-cancelled-flights-it-cant-give-refunds-or-credit

    Unlike other counties which have laws to protect consumers.
    “Under the law, consumers are entitled to receive a refund for their cancelled flights, despite the challenges the industry is currently facing.”
    https://www.caa.co.uk/News/UK-Civil-Aviation-Authority-reviewing-airline-refunds/

    Power rip offs

    Way to be cleared for big electricity players to prey on low-income households
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/102708888/way-to-be-cleared-for-big-electricity-players-to-prey-on-lowincome-households

    NZ Power Companies are not even Compliant under EU and US Laws!
    https://ecotricity.co.nz/nz-powercos-noncompliant-under-eu-us-rules/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=Non+Compliant+Blog+Release&utm_medium=paid&hsa_cam=6116002037136&hsa_src=%5BSITE_SOURCE_NAME%5D&hsa_acc=10152756314334928&hsa_ver=3&hsa_net=facebook&hsa_grp=6116002037536&hsa_ad=6116002037936&fbclid=IwAR0PwZmsmg8Q1b-aevcUijRowgavgNNT36_46yPRedul03imfWS6dSHLapc

    Dump your waste in NZ, we will have years of committee meetings about it and then do nothing and leave the problem for someone else to deal with. Businesses don’t have to clean up here, as our government allows the ‘transfer’ of the problem to another company that then goes into liquidation.

    Mataura asks Govt to act
    https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/mataura-asks-govt-act

    “Directors of Tamarind Taranaki, the New Zealand business of a Malaysian oil and gas producer say the company “may be insolvent”.

    Tamarind operates three oil fields according to its website, Tui, Amokura, and Pateke in the Tui Area oil field. It is the 100 per cent owner and operator of the fields.

    The company’s business model is to buy oil fields late in their production life.

    When buying fields off other companies, Tamarind assumes responsibility for any remediation costs when the field is closed.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12284777

    http://aftinet.org.au/cms/node/1823
    https://www.energy-charter-dirty-secrets.org
    Just 100 companies responsible for 71% of global emissions, study says
    https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change

    Tax/rate payers will both clean up after big business in NZ and lose their livelihoods at the same time!

    Those due money from collapsed oil and gas explorer Tamarind Taranaki aren’t likely to see any of the $360m the company owes, the boss of the New Plymouth chamber of commerce says.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118332123/tamarind-taranaki-placed-into-liquidation-after-watershed-meeting-with-creditors

    Liquidators report shows little return, if any, for Tamarind creditors
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118658076/liquidators-report-shows-little-return-if-any-for-tamarind-creditors

    So no whoop, whoop from me for the Greens to give more in benefits, because the money now goes no where in NZ… as the rip offs remain constant.

  12. I think the Greenies are on track but the policy helps many who don’t tend to vote but need to and need to be encouraged to. I would also like to see the Greens working on a policy to start fazing out plastics altogether and us going back to cardboard, paper and glass usage.

    • The Greens as a political party are totally divorced from the voting public who really want to espouse green values.It’s all just BAU. Otherwise why would we need Extinction Rebellion.

  13. The Greens have won my vote I was considering not voting at all. NZ is crippled by inequality what about a real biting CGT tax! What about ending the FIRE sectors rentier paradise that shuts out our young couples from ever having their own home! It’d be great if we could boot out the Aussie banks and make banking exclusively NZ publically owned banking. For our neoliberal zombies that’d be like graduating from playing monopoly to playing Chess! An intelligence and courage leap too far! 🙁

    • jay11,

      I’m all in favour of bringing fairness into our tax system but how is it fair and equitable to tax land…except for Maori land? Since when do two wrongs equal a right? if we are going to go down this track why not have an income tax rate for Maori earning over 100k of 5% and non-Maori 33% ?

      • Consider what you are saying.
        Tax on race?
        Are you into fairness for individuals.
        Land tax on top of rates would force many pensioners to sell their modest homes. A downward slide into poverty for many.

        Corporate taxes are a different matter.
        Privatisation of once state assets, over the top insurance with no state competitor and allowing housing to become an investment commodity, has cut deeply into Kiwi income and expenses.

      • jay11,

        I strongly disagree with any taxing or not taxing based around race. One of the first things the Greens do in their quest for a fairer tax system is to tax land but exclude Maori land from that tax. That’s in addition to them wanting to create a wealth tax on people who are already unable to afford to buy their own home. Their definition of wealthy is so far off the mark, it calls into question the entirety of the logic they applied. No wonder Ardern was pissed at their announcement and wanted to distance Labour from it. To my eye, it’s an attack on middle NZ, meanwhile the truly wealthy who genuinely believe only fools pay tax will as always find way of not paying their share. Why would any political party want to make an enemy of many of the very people that would have voted for them? Like most others, I believe benefit levels are too low but the Greens way of addressing that misses the mark by some distance. As for beneficiaries, what percentage of them traditionally vote? So who exactly will thank you for making an enemy of middle NZ? National.

        • Yep you can’t say non Maori are wealthy because they have land and assets and Maori are not wealthy if they have land and assets. Land is not necessary wealth unless you sell it, and you have to pay rates on it’s worth.

  15. Meh.
    A stipend to pacify the hoi polloi is all that’s required to allow criminals to make off with our stuff and things while foreign banksters take $6 billion in net profits annually? That’s all it takes, huh?
    You do realise, that when people on welfare get increases those increases go straight back to the banksters because the banksters simply ratchet up the costs of existing in Gods Own Hell?
    The dumb fucking green party need to either stop with the Machiavellian bull shit or come clean and green about how, and who’s pulling their (purse) strings.
    Our planet is on fire, there are soon to be billions of people starving and our farmers are still adrift in the deep blue oceans of natzo lies while those same farmers must saturate their land in glyphosate and artificial nitrates ( Which, in turn, become deadly nitrites. ) just to keep ahead of foreign bankster debt tyranny and the greens give a few pissy dollars to those in poverty and we’re expected to go all oooh and aaaah?
    What would the word or term be for thinking everyone’s had a sharp bump on the head except for one’s self? I’m sure jonky’s pet head shrink, nigel latta, would know the psychological term for that.
    We’re an agrarian country bigger than the UK but with now only 5 million people and this is all it takes from the green party to make your undies tingle?
    We’re fucked.
    And we’re fucked because our financial and post-farm-gate primary industry infrastructure is entirely corrupt. Our country’s limping along. Our brother and sister AO/NZ’ers who are living in poverty and terminal anxiety and fear are that way because we’ve been burgled. The ‘Green’ party are just another screw holding down the lid on the pressure cooker of lies and swindles that is the frame work of a world class foods producing nation the one time envy of the world.
    I’m listing the links below to make sure no can can turn around and accuse me of not saying I didn’t tell you so.
    The Guardian.
    “There’s another pandemic tearing through Britain: hunger”
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/28/pandemic-britain-hunger-boris-johnson
    RNZ
    Fermenting for good
    This woman should be admired and lauded.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/countrylife/audio/2018752404/fermenting-for-good
    The Guardian
    ‘People are more scared of hunger’: coronavirus is just one more threat in Nigeria
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/may/15/people-are-more-scared-of-hunger-coronavirus-is-just-one-more-threat-in-nigeria
    The Guardian
    “World faces worst food crisis for at least 50 years, UN warns”
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/09/world-faces-worst-food-crisis-50-years-un-coronavirus
    The Guardian
    “Americans turn to home-farming as they fear for their food supply ”
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/06/food-insecure-americans-are-home-farming-as-covid-wreaks-havoc-on-agricultural-chain
    The Guardian
    World hunger on the rise as 820m at risk, UN report finds
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/15/world-hunger-un-report
    RNZ
    Regenerative agriculture: How a dairy farmer learned to trust his instincts
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/416143/regenerative-agriculture-how-a-dairy-farmer-learned-to-trust-his-instincts
    The Guardian
    Diet, health, inequality: why Britain’s food supply system doesn’t work
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/22/tim-lang-interview-professor-of-food-policy-city-university-supply-chain-crisis
    Finally;
    Banks behaving badly
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018708634/banks-behaving-badly
    NZ Herald.
    Japan’s Shinsei Bank to buy ANZ’s UDC Finance for $762m
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12336561

    • +1 countryboy – NZ seems to have abandoned any big picture thinking in favour of small (generally not even given by the neoliberals bribes, aka Phil Goff’s free public transport for kids in weekends gone by lunchtime, after he was elected, apparently due to ‘Covid’. Meanwhile councillors $775,000 salaries are not abandoned in the same way, as the living wages of $22 p/h)

  16. These dicks want to tax me because i have a house and have gone without to save a few dollars for my retirement! I will not vote for any party who chooses to work with them.

    • You only get taxed on the over 1 million part and it is individualised.

      Read the whole policy not the sound bites .

      Plus any mortgages or debts get weighed against it.

      It is the whole million taxed. It is the part OVER THE MILLION. It is also individualised so as a couple if you have 1 million split between you u do not get taxed .

    • You only get taxed on the over 1 million in assets. so if you are a couple that million is 500,000 each. So u do not get taxed.

  17. Sigh, the center vote wins elections in NZ and policies penalizing those with an income on $100k or more will not only destroy Green support, but also Labor support. The idea of a Labor/Green government with such policies will scare any voter. With a raging pandemic and a recession with a tax base being depleted this is silly/stupid politics and shows the Greens have no idea of the economic reality waiting to unfold. Where is Russel to bring some sensibility to the Greens. Loony tune policies cost them votes in the last election and this time round they wont be back and by association will cost Labor the election. Welfare policies never won any election in NZ. The target voter of these policies don’t vote so why put focus on it?

    Welfare is a negative construct and destroy the concept of progress for any society and to put your campaign focus on it is fatal. Does welfare need reform yes, but is should be the consequence of broader reform and not the aim in itself. Welfare is a plaster, it soothes the symptoms of a sick system. What is required far more fundamental structural reform. For example get rid of the housing ponzi, working for families is a subsidy to businesses for paying inadequate wages. Councils are gravy train institutions with overpaid trough dwellers. Some of their fees and charges is just a joke. NZ have become a glorified slave colony where the few keep the many as tenants and extort every dime they earn. Reform the system and welfare would be redundant.

    The Greens just gifted the election to National. Be ready for team nine years of neglect and no progress.

  18. 325 Dollars after tax in benefits, hahaha. If you know the way WINZ assess and calculate Temporary Additional Support or Special Benefit, those getting those supplements will get them cut, so they will hardly be better off after all. Unless a government changes the assessment and calculation for those often needed supplements, any increase in a main benefit will not end up in the pockets of those most needy. Go to Manuals and Procedures (MAP) on the WINZ website, and you will learn something. That is why the 25 dollars increase promised from 1 April did not end up in many beneficiaries’ pockets.

    And 325 Dollars will not even pay for the rent so many have to pay.

    It all sounds good for some, but the reality is much more grim. I fear that the Greens do not understand the nitty gritty of the welfare system, same as many Labour MPs and even ministers do not.

  19. Well the battle for the votes on left has been defined. Jacinda needs to be worried! The Green’s have redefined themselves as the party for the beneficiaries, pretence of being “green” is in name only now. The question is how deep the erosion into Labours traditional base vote Green vote will cut?
    The beneficiaries will see a better outcome for themselves under this policy and will support the Greens as a consequence. Where the money/tax comes from is of no concern to them.
    Now given that Jacinda has created two classes of unemployed, those out of work prior to 1 March v those made redundant after 1 March leaves the former justifiably aggrieved with Labour. A new home with Greens is beckoning those longer term unemployed.
    The Greens have lost Fish and Game to Act. The wealth tax proposed with this policy will see the loss of the well healed urban greenies to where ever.
    That said with this policy they have confirmed their survival, but very much at Labours expense by attracting the beneficiaries as their base consituency

  20. High Rent is the main reason for poverty in the working poor . Scrap the RMA and let the government build more houses to drive the rents down.

  21. The term ‘Overton Window’ seems redundant in the information age AND I’m loathe to use it ..

    HOWEVER, this policy is clearly designed to shift said ‘Overton Window’. This policy would currently disincentive people from working full-time, so it needs work.

    The Greens do seem to want a wealth tax. A Land-Tax would be better. The early Roman Empire used a Land-Tax .. it was very effective and set at 1%.

    Land taxes and GST are the way to go. With the advent of crypto-currencies governments (though foolishly slowly) will come to understand the only real taxable asset will be land. That’s the truth .. don’t like it? .. read a book!

    • (Seems like my reply to Zack Brando has been deleted ….so will say it again)

      Land tax is not a good idea….it will force subdivisions of good NZ land to foreigners for development, sales to banksters, the excessively wealthy, and speculators with the most crypto-currencies

      … ie .good NZ land will go to foreign over-breeding population density, non NZers, globalists, urbanites with no sympathy and heritage in NZ landscapes ánd culture

      ….will take the land away from NZ farmers who are skilled at producing food from the land

      ….Land tax (as opposed to a wealth tax) is another looney young pretender carpetbagger Green Party idea …which will not help the environment or New Zealanders’ quality of life)

  22. Let’s be positive. I hear a great deal of whinging from the sidelines re: all sorts of things but if farmers could see they will be getting a decent price for their wool and the world turns to the green and wholesome use of hemp, linen, wool and wool in clothing and upholstery manufacture there could be more positives than we care to imagine.

  24. I’m indifferent about how it’s funded as long as helping the neediest of us is funded. And argued well for.

    Glad to see you can’t stomach Labour like me, Martyn. And wishing for someone to the left of the Greens.

    But I’m holding off til the tightest commitment is made for the desperate.

  25. The previous comments were dreadful. The desperate are the heart of demo-cracy. Not fucken pedantry.

  26. Strikes me its just more taxes for the long suffering middle classes in particular. Many homes are easily worth $1M and people still are faced with a daily cost of living higher than Australia which only has 10% GST not 15% and applies it only to processed goods. Its tax breaks are fairer too with a top rate that’s higher for bigger earners.

    If the Greens want fairness than reduce or better still dump regressive GST. Have a high tax rate like AU and show some real backbone and make banks, multi nationals and the like pay more tax. They are grossly under taxed as its stands and should be paying their fair share.

    • Sean – A home worth $1M in today’s New Zealand, can be a run-down shack housing someone who can’t afford to heat it, can’t afford to buy nutritious food, or non-op shop clothes, let alone to maintain it. Now Davidson wants them to live with in it her nibbling away at it. What a rotten way for an aging pensioner to end their days; already there are some whose peace of mind has been shattered by her unrealistic demands.

      Reduce, or better still, dump GST – which penalises poorer people – then look at bringing in a CGT- and Labour could continue to govern without being shackled by the pretend-Greens or NZ First.

      (Shame to lose Tracy Martin; maybe she could jump wakas; entice Sue Bradford back on board, have proven talent in the Beehive.)

    • If they had targeted business and assets over 10 million that are operating in NZ and made the wealth tax more like a micro tax aka half of one percent, then they would be targeting the 1%. But calculating wealth at 1 million dollars knowing that 50% of houses in Auckland are worth over so it effects a huge amount of people who may be struggling after losing their jobs with Covid, and 25% of farmers are now near bankruptcy, is just dooming it to failure…

      Notice they did not look at increasing company taxes which are ridiculously low in NZ, instead of as usual, targeting the middle class professionals aka over $100k that we already struggle to keep from losing with brain drain, in this country.

      • @ saveNZ – Newshub’s 05/19 list of MP property owners show Marama Davidson as owning no property. This could be why Marama thinks that a person owning a $1M property is a rich person. She may not even know what is entailed in just routinely maintaining a property if she’s never had to do so herself.

        Some of us hard-disciplined ourselves to buy our homes; I worked banking every cent, and growing every kumara, and fortunate to have inherited my Depression-scarred mother’s thriftiness; our last family home was more than we could afford, and we were then lumbered with private school fees after shifting and finding the local school a disaster area.

        A couple of years before he died, the bank manger told my husband that he didn’t know how we managed; nor do I. One of my offspring here in NZ in a very demanding job has a spouse working two jobs to pay the mortgage; their joint income may be what someone like Davidson thinks riches; it aint – and importantly, precious family time gets majorly impacted upon.

        I must have have made miles of curtains, and painted walls out-spanning the Firth of Forth bridge, and I suggest that persons who have not done these things may be too lacking in practical reference points to credibly assess the financial health or status of other individuals without possessing actuarial or similar expertise.

  27. Its not to late for the Greens and this poverty action plan is a step in the” left ” direction.
    The C.T.U made the comment ” All New Zealanders should have security of the fundamental basics.”
    That should be the benchmark when developing policy not just the same old profit motive that seems to get in the way of doing anything meaningful in this economy.
    Message to the Greens ” More please “

    • How about taxing the shit out of foreign owned empty speculative houses in New Zealand?

      ….there is a lot of these empty foreign owned houses in every city especially Auckland, while New Zealanders are homeless in their own country

      ….where are the wokey Greens on this ?!…or is this “crude racial profiling?”…as one more notable ex Green said when the Labour Party tried to point out the inflation of Auckland house prices

      • How about taxing all the empty baches everywhere owned by good ol’ New Zealanders. There are many more empty baches than so called empty ‘foreign owned’ houses. Problem is, Labour voters own baches too, don’t they… yes, even Labour MPs own empty baches!
        See what I mean.

        • …at least the baches are owned by New Zealanders in their own country…and baches are part of NZ culture ( the Greens dont seem to like NZers or their culture)

          ….instead of NZ empty houses owned by foreigners

          …. in foreign overpopulated cultures

          …on the other side of the world

    • Mosa – ” All New Zealanders should have security of the fundamental basics.” A great statement – it resonates well – difficult for anybody to disagree with.

      Davidson’s, “Some people have more money than they need,” echoes Fagin instructing the Artful Dodger – smells of resentment, instead of having a positive problem-solving approach.

      Others have raised the issue of company tax, which I know little about, and the Greens may also know little; their personalized clobber-the-rich approach may be designed as a vote catcher likely to appeal to their voter base, rather than speaking of more abstract company taxes. So when Grant Robertson spoke yesterday about the possibility of raising taxes, it was a huge relief to see him being so matter of a fact about it, without the Green’s convoluted backstories and perpetual victim-hood.

      I think realists accept the inevitability of tax increases, and want benefits simplified, and set at reasonable levels and so on, and that this should be able to be done without some sort of class warfare.

      There are good ideas popping up here – taxing foreign-owned empty properties etc – and these are what govt should be looking at instead of letting the Greens frighten people who sacrificed to own their own homes, and are now being eyed covetously by those who didn’t. I liked the way that Grant Robertson raised increasing taxation as something that has to be done, and it should be possible for govt to now raise benefits without frightening the horses – get credibility by using credible NGO’S to help get jobs.

  28. These are the kind of reforms I expect Labour ought to have implemented over the past three years; sensible – hardly revolutionary. They wouldn’t have been unexpected from a Labour government of the now-ancient past.

    If a Labour-Green coalition forms after the election, I expect that the real present-day Labour will rule out or considerably water down all of the above.

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