UPDATE: If Greens get LOWER than their appalling 2017 result – will Marama Davidson & James Shaw stand down as leaders?


Last nights explosive Newshub Poll that put Labour on a  staggering 56.5% makes real internal polling that has hinted at the exact same momentum.

As TDB warned at the beginning of the pandemic, Jacinda’s incredible leadership has sucked the oxygen away from everyone else.

As TDB has been pointing out for sometime, this is particularly dangerous for the Greens.

Weka over at The Standard has made some feeble defence of the Greens after I asked whether they were even relevant any longer.

Last nights poll buries Weka. The Greens are worse than irrelevant with Labour on 56.5%.

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

What Weka and the other woke Green Party apostles won’t ever explain is why over the last 3 elections the Green Party keeps going backwards?

2011 – 11.1%

2014 – 10.7%

2017 – 6.27%

In this latest Poll they are at a pathetic 5.5%

I have been arguing that the reason the Greens could fall beneath 5% and crash out of Parliament in 2020 is because their woke middle class identity politics is now less about environmentalism and social justice and is more about pure temple politics where inclusion is via exclusion.

The Trans mantras, the fourth wave feminism, the non binary activism all combine to create an alienating virtue signalling mish mash of activism extremes that believes every man is a rapist, all white people are racist, anyone supporting free speech is an actual Nazi, everyone not vegan a planet killer and everyone who doesn’t embrace their definitions of diversity is a child hating monster.

Of course the Greens have to be focused on social justice and environmental justice, but the issues the Greens have championed are so fringe there isn’t an electorate beyond their 300 Wellington polyamorous friends on Twitter.

The Greens have become so bogged down in middle class identity politics that they don’t know if they are Arthur or Martha, and if they did know, they would be a 6 month hui to debate pronoun use.

The Greens now are like a dinner party at The Spinoff where you get stuck between Toby Manhire and Lizzie Marvelly arguing over who hates men the most.

At some point during their heated debate, you just wish for death.

It’s not just the alienating mommy blogger qualities of the Greens and their online de platform woke social media lynch mobs, it’s the basic competency of the Greens. They are radical on everything except climate change!

Marama wanting to reclaim the world ‘Cunt’, Minister Sage allowing the Chinese to keep stealing water, their decision to give their Parliamentary Question to National and the absurdity of James Shaw pretending that doing something maybe in 30 years to be carbon neutral is somehow a solution to the climate crisis all combine to produce a Party whose woke self-righteousness is as intolerable as their incompetence.

How the Greens could be crashing out when the climate crisis is the ONLY story, when the current pandemic is part of the climate crisis story and  after hundreds of thousands marched around the country for the climate crisis is testament to the Greens current mix of incompetence and election poison.

In 2018 Marama went on a Twitter tirade demanding men who didn’t agree with her should delete themselves, I suspect come September 20th she will have been hoping that some of those voters didn’t delete themselves.

It is an urgent point to make that if the Greens manage to do more poorly than their terrible 2017 result  that Marama Davidson and James Shaw must immediately step down as leaders of the Party.



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  1. I still have my fingers crossed that they will “Delete their own account bro” by dipping under 5%. Same with Winston First.

    • Jays: “I still have my fingers crossed that they will “Delete their own account bro” by dipping under 5%.”

      Me too. Their being thrown out of Parliament can’t come soon enough for me. I haven’t voted Green for many years. Not so concerned about Winston, but. This may be the end for NZ First. Or it may not: it pays never to underestimate Winston’s ability to make like Lazarus.

  2. Of note is the fact that whatever the Greens get on election night they have historically gained a 1% or so bump up from the postal votes (overseas votes), I believe this 1% or so will favour Labour more this time…overseas it’s Jacinda…Jacinda…Jacinda in MSM.

    So to recap: Yes, the Greens are fucked, unless they can pull a carrot out of the hat in the next few months (don’t wish to harm the bunny in the hat)
    Agreed, the Weka post over on the standard in response to your post, ‘are the Greens actually relevent’, was the classic ‘dancing on the head of a pin’ nonsense that she is known for, watch that space for more ‘dancing’ posts!

  3. The Greens have been very much part of the problem for nearly 20 years.

    When you have a party that has promoted:

    1. inordinate per capita consumption of fossil fuels and inordinate release of emissions (tourism)

    2. converting food into fuel for vehicles (biofuels)

    3. printing money to stimulate consumption of fossil fuels (quantitative easing)

    you know you have a party led by fuckwits (or saboteurs).

    Therefore, the best outcome at the coming election is that the Greens disappear up their own orifices, and a genuine environmental party emerges.

    • +100 Afewknowthetruth…there are many good New Zealand environmentalists out there….but they dont support the 1080 industry and the extermination of kea and other native birds…or the poisoning of the land

    • “…you know you have a party led by fuckwits (or saboteurs).”

      Never put down to malice what can more easily be explained by incompetence.
      This isn’t a single one of them that should ever have been allowed near the levers of power.

      • I have to agree, Jays. Trapped as they are in their kombucha-sipping metropolitan bubble, they just don’t get it.

        • I am probably what is classed middle income these days.
          Doing ok, but not rich by any sane person’s definition – although I am sure some here would burn me at the stake for being “rich”.
          However, unlike these Green twits, I know what it is like to grow up in a fairly poor household and to work my arse off to get to the point where I AM middle income.
          This lot have zero grasp on reality.

        • Irrespective of ideology left right or what ever I think we need to appreciate the fact that no liberal democracy in history has ever been this close to a combination of a 75%/90 seat super majority. At 75% there is no left or right divide and you can put constitutional reforms through unopposed. So please, ladies and gentlemen line up in an orderly fashion and present your Christmas wish lists to the coalition government. Yknow if you want a new flag, line up, if you want an upper house then line up. And if you fail to grasp the magnitude of where Jacinda and put forward those constitutional reforms you’ve been going on about for the last 40 years then you are gutless.

    • Agreed 100% Afewknowthetruth

      Did you see or hear Green Party say the word ‘RAIL’ – during the last six months????
      No we did not.
      We didn’t hear the Green Party even once discuss rail or even encourage or boost rail freight and passenger services.

      They used to do this back in 2013, – so with no noise comming from the greens now, they have indirectly allowed the increased ‘road truck cabal’ to expand further roll on churning out air pollution and tyre dust pollution to a world being chocked by their emissions.

      Sadly they have been culled like chickens.

      Labour, Greens pledge to reinstate Gisborne rail line
      22 Jan, 2013 5:31pm
      The Napier-Gisborne rail line.
      By: Phillipa Webb of the Gisborne Herald
      Labour and the Greens vowed at a public meeting in Gisborne last night that they would reinstate the Gisborne to Napier railway line if they won the 2014 election.
      East Coast National MP Anne Tolley’s absence from the meeting about the mothballed line was noted, with most of about 100 meeting-goers giving her a vote of no confidence.
      KiwiRail chief executive Jim Quinn offered no hope for the line and said the ongoing costs of repair and maintenance meant it would not be reopened.
      The meeting was held to discuss the release of the recent Berl report – an independent economic analysis of the KiwiRail report that led to a decision to close the line in November.
      Berl said there were “serious inconsistencies” in the KiwiRail report and there was a need for a comprehensive cost:benefit analysis of the line – a process that could cost around $500,000 and take up to 12 months.
      Gisborne District Mayor Meng Foon said the meeting was an opportunity to gain feedback from the region to take to Minister of Transport Gerry Brownlee when they met to discuss the future of the line.
      No date for a meeting has been set.
      John McLean, from Roger Dickie Forests and the Rail Action Group, questioned the need to close the line from Wairoa to Napier when there were opportunities for forestry in that area to use the line.
      Forestry investor Roger Dickie said of the 18 million tonnes of logs they hoped to produce in the next 10-15 years, he saw potential to send 7.5 million tonnes of that south by rail.
      Richard Burke from crop grower LeaderBrand said they were not given enough time to see how they could grow the use of the line before it was mothballed.
      So now it looks like only the National Party don’t want to offer a rail service to Gisborne, so we have little support other than the Government today to rely upon to fix our rail. We have been waiting since 25th March 2012 to have our rail services restored and returned to our community.
      Founding of the Gisborne railway.
      In 1935 Labour in their first Government in NZ embarked on building the railway from Wairoa to Gisborne.
      From it was opened finally in 1942 and the first train was greeted by 10 000 people in Gisborne then on that day.
      Now we need action Government.

  4. When the Greens lost their environmental focus, they became just like Labour, the polls reflect that.

  5. Many of us, including myself would vote Green if they actually were a Green party, but they’re not:

    They’ve digressed into social policy that has zero to do with the environment and for which they have little real comprehension.

    They lack competent science based policies. A good example would be nuclear power – the only viable source of electricity that doesn’t emit carbon. Another example is the banning oil & gas exploration – a policy that only has the potential to increase our carbon footprint.

    They have failed to promote local environmental projects such as the creation of desperately needed marine reserves, native bird sanctuaries and pest removal projects. These don’t get them on the News so get no attention.

    Lastly, they’ve allowed some really nasty people wheedle their way into the ranks and become MPs.

  6. You can get it if you really want.

    The root problems of the AONZ Greens date back to times before the present leadership.

    The party structure is bureaucratic and mechanistic. It appears as a sort of ‘instantaneous water heater’ for career-minded individuals coupled with election-poster fixing foot soldiers.

    Plus small-talk at afternoon teas and cupcakes.

    At present it has a shallow philosophical doctrine that translates into poor and inconsistent strategic and tactical operations, including reasoning for its actual purpose in parliamentary bodies.

    Still, isolated election successes on sub-national levels do indicate that Kiwis are in principle willing to support more politically radical environmental and social perspectives.

    There is a strong consciousness over climate change effects across all classes and population groups, including farmers and rural residents, which is basically neglected by the Green Party as an important policy focus.

    Comparing demographics and administration systems in other, similarly structured countries, the NZ Greens should consistently attract a baseline of 15-30 % of the vote on national level.

    Anything below this baseline certainly calls for a structural review, change plus re-sorting the upper echelons.

    Even if the Green Party somehow manages to remain in the beehive, a result below 10% would need to be followed-up by significant policy changes and adequate human resource responses by the party.

    Naturally, such consequences would have to include the top leadership as well.


    You can get it if you really want.

  7. Bring Back Nandor, a People’s Fighter! Someone who stands for a cause & a Principle that he believes in and is willing to go to the ends of the earth to enable change to accomplish Green Policy goals. These current Lounge Lizards are all past their use by dates.
    At the moment the only thing going on in Parliament is merely jockeying for special interests & offshore Trade Deals. I’m not thrilled with ANY of the “Seat Takers” on either side of the political Fence.
    We have “Politiks”, which is NOT Governance by and for the Democratic rights and Will of the People. All I see is a bunch of Wannabe Power Brokers standing around the Public Trough making deals with each other while annually raising their pay check by Reverse Gravity Osmosis. They should be paid on their performance anyway.. That would weed out the dead wood and force these circle jerker’s to work for their crust based on their contribution to the Citizenry. What ever happened to Annual Reviews?? Nobody is being held to account for their performance these days. We need checks and balances in our system!
    The Middle Class and Poor of NZ would be better off launching a Class Action Law Suit & hiring a Law Firm to represent us than this bunch of self important Nimrods collecting way too much money for way too little actual work in the Governance & Fair Deal for everyone Department!
    We have a System that is completely Stacked against the Middle Class & Poor. We are the working Cash-Cows bearing the costs for both the Politicians and Corporate Slackers sucking hind tit.
    We the Middle Class & Poor are the Donut – The Politik & Corporatist Class are the Hole in the Middle that’s full of Hot Air.
    Housing is stuffed, the CPI (Consumer Price Index) is blown so far out of whack that NOBODY in the Cheap Seats can afford a decent life without a Government or some Bureaucrat’s hand in your pocket pulling cash out faster than it goes in to compensate their private Stakeholders. We have too many Cooks in the Kitchen Seasoning the spoiled Broth without following any set Recipe. Oh, is that a Worry?? You betcha it’s a worry!
    Our Benevolent Tourist Sector and Product Exporters have screwed the pricing Scrum to the point that us Local’s can’t even afford a Holiday in our own Country. Our Housing stock, especially in University towns & the Provinces is crumbling from decades of neglect & aren’t fit for 21st Century purpose. Anyone wanting to build a 1st home suitable to raise a family in are shut out of the market as the compliance and Materials costs are based on Export landed costs overseas. Food costs – the same, we locals get pinged for export prices and don’t even have a say in the matter. Our Domestic Distribution Chain’s are hopelessly broken, as has become Glaringly apparent during the COVID19 crisis. Between Big Food and Big Transport Trucking, even the Monopolised Grocers couldn’t keep their shelves stocked. Too me that’s inexcusable and unacceptable!
    If you want to insure your House, Vehicle, Valuables to try and protect yourself you get your eyes gouged out by the Insurance man. If you can afford their price, and someday down the road have to make a claim, there’s always a disclaimer hiding in the fine print that turns you down.I guess those Omsbudsmen supposedly looking after the consumer have all gone on holiday overseas somewhere and can’t get home. The Earthquake Commission is a bad Joke that we found out about too late after Johnny & Jerry along with CHH ran their reconstruction scam on Christchurch. Gee how did that happen??? Honestly, its like living in a ferkin Snake Pit of Greedy self serving Serpents lookin for a Crippled Fat Mouse in a Wood Pile and biting each other silly competing for every last scrap… We live in a Heartless Carpetbaggers Paradise full of Woke Me-Firsters that write their own profit checks off the back of a corrupt global financial System that thinks it can grow ad- infinitum without consequence.
    Hmmm, let’s see, where can we tack another 10% on to something of public necessity to keep our coffers topped up without asking our Private Stakeholder Corporates and Banking Constituent’s to remove their tentacles that are wrapped around the middle classes and Poor’s Necks and maybe chip in a few bucks themselves? Heaven forbid!!! Where do these “Buck’s” Stop???
    *CGT – Nope, we all own Investment Properties and we’re killing it in the market, so forget about that. Besides, we made all those deals with overseas investors for Campaign Contributions, so they could buy into the Cash Cow and Pad their nests from a distance. Maybe no one will notice that rents have disproportionately increased based on house prices & nothing at all to due with values that we’ve inflated over the moon in the past 11 years. Love that Meritocratic Market!!! Always UP UP & Away!
    *Taxes – Nope, Robo-Corp won’t go for that! Don’t you dare try and keep us from sheltering our incomes somewhere else with no paper trails. Don’t expect US to give back any of our ill-gotten gains.. That’s why we pay our Accountants so well to protect us from any real scrutiny! Let the Middle class and Poor pay those taxes, we’ll just skim off the profits… We can’t afford to pay our worker Bee’s anything because there’s nothing left once we hide all our profits offshore, or Buy a Bigger Tractor & a few more tons of Super nitrates & 1080 from Uncle Johnny our former Rock Star economy Saviour..
    Screw those Kiwi workers, we’ll just send overseas for a new batch that can’t vote or cause problems in the NZ Labour Market’s about Minimum Wages or better working conditions. We’ve long ago killed off the Trade Unions, so No Worries, they don’t have a collective voice, so who cares?? … Let those worker Bee’s Eat Cake and sleep in their Car’s as long as they’re on time for work for whatever we decide, or don’t decide to give em… So GET BACK TO WORK you silly slaves, your time is our money! Get busy, or we’ll let WINZ deal to you!
    Gee what a predicament we find ourselves mired up to our eyeballs in at the moment eh?? A Super-Dooper Double Dipper of Global Pandemic and an already broken Global Economy.. Real Bummer material!
    Would it not be prudent that we look inward right now and fix our flailing Domestic Bits while we have a chance instead of wasting our time with all of our eggs in the Global Export Basket and trying to bounce an obviously Dead Cat market system while our Domestic situation continues to suffer from Greed, domestically aimed Avarice & the errors of our past subscription to Multi-Nationalist Globalist crap that has played itself out long ago?
    When is enough enough?? I think we need to have a damn serious think about where we go “ALL Inclusively” from here? This Us Against THEM thing just doesn’t work… Dead Cats and Rigged Global Economies just don’t bounce like they used to eh Boy’s ñ Girls?
    The Green’s are only a small part of our problems…Until we get busy fixing up the ole Homeland, we won’t be going anywhere!

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