What if there is no evidence of collusion? What if Mueller’s investigation turns up lots of dodgy shit about Trump, his business dealings and the business dealings of those around him with Russia, but no evidence of collusion?
None of the security agencies, not even the FBI after 9 months of searching, could find collusion, what if Mueller also turns up no clear evidence?
Mueller’s report is finally over and while the White House may try and censor anything too embarrassing, it doesn’t look like Trump is panicking at all and that could suggest that there’s no evidence of collusion.
If that’s the case, I think we are in real trouble.
Could you imagine how Trump supporters, like a multitude of trucker capped phoenixes rising from the embers, would roar in vengeance if their President was cleared? That would mean Trump’s shrill denials, Trump’s claims of fake news, and Trump’s self righteous bullshit would all find fertile ground in the barren fields of his supporters.
I pray this isn’t the case, but I have a terrible suspicion that we have all believed the worst of Trump without the means of proving it.
There could be a terrible price to pay for that in 2020.
The U.S. Russia Intermediate Nuclear Missile Treaty is about to expire. I read Russia is upping missile production significantly and traditionally America will follow suite. While Trump and his friends are in and a majority in the senate US defence budget will continue to rise and the defence industrial complex that all fake news depends on will be licking it all up.
The most pressing reasons why Russia has developed new weapons must also be understood before the picture can be seen.
Russia is under threat with NATO bases now surrounding many of their borders, all installed with US driven plans for confining Russia but not US expanding adventurism.
Russiagate now should be put to rest with Mueller’s report released.
No evidence of Russian collusion in spite of many millions being spent in investigation and construction of mythical collusion scenarios.
Russian collusion – all US bullshit as usual.
Sarcasm and salt incoming. I mean whoopee, those who can think for themselves instead of getting sucked in hard by commercial media narrative, it was totally manufactured, Y’know. Not only have the west and its media in particular lost credibility we’ve pushed Russia closer to China instead of closer to Europe. Then we can bundle all this with BREXIT and the stalled China US trade deal and there’s a lot backing up that this mueller distraction has obfuscated.
Martyn,
I always believed Trump was not colluding with Russia.
Why would he do this because Russia could be an ally to him?
I felt Hillary was guilty of some involvement with the Russians as she was involved with the deal with Russia – Ukraine over supplying Uranium in “the Uranium one deal”.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2018/12/13/russian-uranium-one-deal-and-hillary-clinton-in-the-news-again/#20436f61526d
‘Hillary Clinton and the 2010 Uranium One deal with Russia’
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-hanson-mueller-mccabe-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-james-comey-huma-abedin-investigation-0430-story.html
Then when she was ordered to hand over all her hard drives and cellphone records to FBI she deliberately destroyed them, so she really sealed my suspicions way back then.
“I have a terrible suspicion that we have all believed the worst of Trump without the means of proving it.There could be a terrible price to pay for that in 2020.”
+100 CLEANGREEN….and the mainstream neo McCarthyist media has aided and abetted this anti Trump, Hillary Clinton Democratic Party lie
( to cover up for losing the Election, not to mention creating a diversion from the murder of Seth Rich and his leaks about Dem Party corruption to WikiLeaks)
….not that I endorse Trump!
And then there was the interview between Julian Assange and John Pilger where it was disclosed that the Clinton Foundation was funneling funds to purchase American made arms for Bahrain, Qatar and Saudi Arabia which were then redistributed to ISIS,…
Ever wondered where the global accusation of ‘ America seems to be dragging its feet in dealing to ISIS’ came from? – there’s your motivation for that situation RIGHT THERE !
Russia was doing a better job.
But perhaps that’s because they didn’t have the murderous Obomba in charge,….
Oh,… and BTW , – I recall one arms deal in particular was in excess of Eighty Billion dollars worth of military hardware !!!
At that time , the worlds biggest arms deal (to supply ISIS). Following that , there was an even bigger one a year or so later.
One of the reasons why the cry ‘ She needs to be impeached and locked up ‘ was so popular…
Hilary Clinton. Mass murderer.
Julian Assange: US knows Saudi and Qatari sponsor ISIS – YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVJ9RJHzUEc
Gah.
Far Left wingers and far Right wingers are all the same.
Both wings of the same bow bent so far round they meet in the middle to their final conclusion: Totalitarians.
Agreed, Russia is a smokescreen for the inadequacies of dem party elites. The real collusion and influence lies with Saudi Arabia (who got to fly on planes on 9/11 when no one else in the US could), Israel (who got to address US congress in person), elites, banks and lobbyists. These are the entities who should be investigated.
Hehehe…. and perhaps we could put away that poster heading this article as well…
Ask yourselves… where would we have been if George Bush Jr had been in power during the stand off between North Korea and the USA?
Or even Barracks Obomba ?- you know , – the guy who signed off every Tuesday for five years on drone strikes in the Middle East that killed hundreds of civilians?
Instead, we now have seen North Korea and the USA sitting round the table together – possibly with North Korea getting badly needed foreign investment pouring in and becoming less of a communist satellite nation…
Donald Trump , – The first American president to affect that sort of change since the late 1950’s… around 60 years…. no small feat.
I think with the announcement that no further charges are to be laid means that no collusion has been found. Not with Trump and Russia anyway.
Last I heard the report had not got to the White House yet. If it ever does.
Could be interesting from now on.
D J S
Apropos of that Martyn, the media has a lot to answer for .
Here’s Matt Taibbi’s answer to your question
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-million
If there’s no collusion found in the report, what is in it? How are all the false claims handled? Are they to be left hanging? The litany of preparatory evidence that has not apparently stacked up will surely result in another investigation with a very different focus.
D J S
I don’t buy the cry of Russia interfering with US elections any more than the cry of the US not interfering with elections globally.
Both NZ and OZ have had US interference and that will most likely continue.
The US has routinely interfered with many countries political systems and taken many over by force all based on diatribe propaganda fed to the US taxpaying public.
Venezuela is the current attempted take over.
Kiwis display a degree of gullibility if they accept the lies and argue from the claptrap that comes out of Washington.
Joining in the US debate is like swimming in a septic tank.
There are still three jurisdictions in the US with goods on the whole gamut of Trump misdeeds, including the Southern District of New York and Washington DC. These piles of evidence left by Mueller “sealed” with these courts apparently do not include collusion with Russia but there is the whole Deutschebank loans business still to uncover, possible tax revelations, and on and on…
Thank you for that link FRANCESCA. I am no fan of Trump, but this whole witch hunt has always stunk to high heaven. Just heard on nine to noon (voice of america) “just because Mueller did not find any evidence, doesn’t mean Trump is not guilty”or words to that effect, WTF??? After roughly two years of, the walls are closing in, impeachment is imminent, evil Russians, etc. etc. God forbid that msm (including our repeaters) could ever admit that they had been played.
There is far more than the anti trump agenda in the Russiagate nonsense and renewed cold war hysteria.
For those of us without Trump derangement syndrome it’s been clear that this whole Russia nonsense was a witch-hunt. It’s the Democrats that have collided with Russia, they are the ones complicit in election rigging. Not that it matters, the mainstream/left wing media are in full spin mode, and dreaming up the next conspiracy.
Yep, you are right, it will look like a beatup to his base. However they were manipulated by Cambridge Anayltica, how is ghat legal! And how is it possible tho for Trumps retainers to get jail sentences and not him, when they were acting on his instructions.
+1 Comet
There was never any collusion. Great that the mainstream news media lied to everyone for 2+ years with no evidence only rhetoric and hubris. But if you followed the investigation closely he was picking up people for all manner of crimes but no one was ever found to have colluded with the Russians. Rachael Maddow gets paid $10 million a year to lie to people.
@aaronjmate
Those of us who questioned Trump-Russia collusion (by doing journalism) were smeared as many things, including Trump defenders. Our detractors had it in reverse: by peddling/prioritizing a conspiracy theory, they sidelined Trump’s harmful policies & handed him a re-election gift.
Glen Greenwald
Check every MSNBC personality, CNN law “expert,” liberal-centrist outlets and #Resistance scam artist and see if you see even an iota of self-reflection, humility or admission of massive error.
Jimmy Dore
https://youtu.be/HjPgO57AzjQ
Caitlin Johnson
“For a clear-eyed leftist, it’s been an exhausting couple of years. The effort to hold on to facts and evidence while being buffeted by relentless waves of gaslighting propaganda has been tough and many have lost friends and allies on the way.”
@caitoz
Quite frankly if the Trump supporters were to rise up in this fashion, then the woke left have only themselves to blame.
They have acted as obnoxiously as have Trump’s supporters.
They have been chanting about impeaching Trump since before he took office.
They are as bad as each other.
…” They are as bad as each other ”…
^^^^^^
THIS.
Underline this comment and repeat it to yourselves 10 times daily.
Then you will no longer be sucker punched or gullible.
America goes on about a wall and imaginary, crazy collusion. The UK has wasted the last 3+ years arguing about Brexit.
These countries have serious economic and social problems, yet these are held up as the serious issues. The media and the public should be ashamed of themselves.
Convenient distractions for politicians who don’t want to confront their countries real issues. Very tragic.
Allthe Trump supporters come charging out in defense of their master
There may or may not have been collusion. Fuck knows
But Trump is still guilty of linining the pockets of billionaires with his tax cuts. And bombing Syria. Transphobia and homophobia. Islamophobia. Wasting billions on bloody walls. And the piece de resisistance, civert support for fascist white supremacists
You’ll even find a few here in the daily blog’s forums, eh Win and David??
I should really tell you to get knotted. I shouldn’t really be explaining myself to a people like you.
But anyhow. I am not a Trump supporter. I liked what he said about US troops withdrawing from Syria, and all the money spent on needless wars was better spent on making America Great Again. That he was going to try and repair relations with Russia, because 2 super nuclear powers should have a good relationship and be on speaking terms. But he hasn’t been able to keep those promises and he can be a dipstick and is probably a crook to boot. But at least you know what he thinks. While Obomber was such a nice Nobel Peace Prize winner he also involved the US in more wars than any other president, admitted he was good at killing people and did little if anything for the US underprivileged. He sent more illegal immigrants home and had a great day on Tuesdays? dronning innocent civillians in Afghanistan. But everyone on this site loved him.
You know nothing about who I am and what I believe – although apparently my contributions on this site are always moderated because I might spout white supremacist doctrine (aye Sam).
I am 64 Māori woman who grew up in a strongly Labour, left leaning household. (This can be seen as threat to some authorities). Who along with her children has experienced overt and covert racism but has managed to deal with it. I care about proper process, and millions of Muslims dying needlessly because greedy Western nations covert their oil. I care about fairness and justice and will not back down about Russia especially as I have researched Russia immensely. I am a strong supporter of Russia, the Russian people including Putin, because of the unfair position they were placed in, after the break up of the Soviet Union, by the disastrous free market experiment the US tried on their economy. (want to know about election interference? Google The Time cover celebrating the US support for Yeltsin in the 1996 Russian election. I am disturbed at the continual vitriol, the lies and anti Russian propaganda continuously spewed by the Western media. (The media does the same for Trump. But this time they have been caught up but they will not have to pay for lying to the world for over 2 years). The Russian courage and bravery defeating the Germans (for us) with the death of 27 million people. ( and don’t say it was all Stalin). I like to read and comprehend the details of events. Not just catch onto the headlines and get carried away by emotion.
So I am not sure why you people who monitor this site think I am a white supremacist but nothing could be further from the truth.
Relax Win, don’t take it personally, you are dealing with ideologically possessed stupidity. The said comrade and his mate savaged me recently along same lines. I Googled one and found a putrid criminal event, then stopped questioning myself. Suggest you disengaged with nutjobs.
Great stuff Win I agree entirely but lack the watertight defence you have against the charge of ‘white supremacist” being of European decent .
It is possible that with the threat of “Russiagate ” lifted Trump might be more free to enact those proposals he made during his campaign and kick against the regime change programmes etc. we will know in the next 12 months .
Mjolnir… “There may or may not have been collusion. Fuck knows”
After 22 months and millions of dollars it is likely that Mueller knows. If not no -one can ever find out anything. Dissapointing isn’t it! There there .
D J S
WIN ,… you are an intellect, an historical researcher and now a favorite of mine.
Well done.
And what does all this show?
That you CANNOT typecast anyone.
Well done , WIN.
Blessings.
Agree 100%. Bravo WIN. Arohanui.
Also from me. Win sounds well versed in these issues
Thanks for your contribution
Well said Win and thanks. Going after Trump with lies and deciet was always going to end badly. But I suppose its too much to expect the billionaire class that own the msn to ever go after Trump over his rascism and white supremacy. Far better in their eyes to just tread water a while with russiagate and build up the evil russia china iran whatever narrative to justify the diversion of another trillion or so to their pet projects of military hardware and surveillance. Martyn is right to be a little fearful of what little obsession will now take hold in the rather deranged Trump mind. Lets hope its just some concrete slab on the southern border.
But that’s not what the investigations and lies were about though. You know nothing you ignorant, emotive twat. Stick to the topic.
Sock it to ’em , WIN.
Ok. corrections; Covet, not covert.
“But that’s not what the investigations and lies were about though. You know nothing you ignorant, emotive twat. Stick to the topic.”
This was in reply to MJOLNIR. Not sure why it appeared under Spikeboy.
Well said Mjolnir. Trump may or may not be “innocent” of collusion with Russia, but as a leader, well, he sucks. His rants against muslims, Mexicans, trans, gays, etc, etc and his close ties to the far right make him more dangerous than any other world leader at present.
Who can forget his utter failure to condemn far right activists in Charlottesville when they killed a woman and marched screaming anti-Semitic slogans?
The sooner that fascist is removed from the White House the better. He is a threat to world peace way more than Putin or Xi Jinping.
Venezuela crisis: Russian troops in Caracas threaten US intervention …
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12216107
You , and most of your other ill informed ilk, don’t know your history , cant back up your facts , don’t even understand what fascism really is , and cant tell the difference between idealism and geo political diplomacy. And don’t even understand what you support anymore…
Least qualified to comment.
In Call to Abolish CIA, Sanders Followed JFK’s Cue – The Intercept
https://theintercept.com/…/in-1974-call-to-abolish-cia-sanders-followed-in-footsteps-o..
A bit more coverage and perspective.
The next moves by US will be critical.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51322.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51312.htm
Well said like a 65 IQ Democrat.
Troll or just plain dumb?
Barack Obama was the first President in US history to be at war every single day of his terms
Just FYI
Russiagate
Noun: A convention of Village Idiots holding a never ending hunt for a non-existent needle in an ever-expanding haystack.
“Imagine a Convention of Village Idiots holding a never-ending hunt for a non-existent needle in an ever-expanding haystack. Every once in a while one of them finds a twig, or an old sock, or a marble, and with a look of sheer delight on their face they look up and squawk, ‘I’ve found it’. And all the other VIs gather round to marvel at the needle, and the news is published in the press across the country that they’ve got it, and there is much rejoicing. Until that is, someone points out that what they’ve found is not a needle at all, but a twig or an old sock or a marble, and before you know it they’ve quietly put it to one side, and resumed the hunt.”
http://www.theblogmire.com/mueller-finally-gives-up-his-two-year-search-for-a-non-existent-needle-but-the-hunt-continues/
Nice links Brigid. There’s going to be a lot of cognitive dissonance when the report shows no collusion. Just a lot of deluded liberals and lefties too stupid to see that they were being played. I can see a lot of people making up personal excuses for their deliberate ignorance that has cost two years coming up with a candidate and campaign to beat Trump. All that is achieved is Trump’s likely reelection.
Does anyone in New Zealand, know anyone else in New Zealand, who has the fortitude, intelligence and objectivity of a Jimmy Dore, Aaron Mate, Glen Greenwald et al? If so I would like to follow them.
I tell you what Win
Ken Perrot over on Open Parachute is pretty good
https://openparachute.wordpress.com/
Dear Martyn Bradbury,
can you tell me why my comments spend a long time in moderation?
Your sincerely
Winifred Kiddle
After following the Consortium News posts by some of the worlds best investigative journalists on the Russian collusion scam since accusations were first made. Showed clearly that Washington post etc were basically full of the proverbial with their tsunami of fake news.
The pair of you need to do a little more research. Trump won fair and square within the rules because his team played them better. Full bloody stop. Whinging is so fekkin defeatist and pointless. Get over it and do something positive.
Watch the Al Jazeera docco on how Cambridge Analytica was key to targeting Trump voters, technology helped win the race whilst hubris lost it for for Hillary the mad militarist. WTF was she ever going to do for the Left? the
I’m so sick of trite crap about Trump. So WTF are you going to do about it? Moan like some weasley little loser? Grow some balls (or whatever if you are gender fluid etc).
US elections – Fair???
Don’t they depend on who has the richest backers, employs the most ruthless PR companies and greases the corrupt electoral college.
Indeed, John. The US elections cannot be described as “fair” in any possible sense.
Aside from the first-past-the-post system locking out other, third-party candidates, the amount of gerrymandering and voter suppression that goes on (mostly by Replublicans, I might add) has perverted any notion of democracy in that country.
The hypocrisy of the US State Dept who then criticise the Russian elections as “not free or fair” is breath-taking.
John and Frank of course the USA does not have a fair electoral system. If you slow down and read accurately I never suggested they do. What I said was that Trump won the election fair and square within the perverse rules. His team in rugby parlance cynically manufactured the penalties and kicked the goals. Hillary dropped the ball over the line and missed the conversions in a game she should have won. Thems the rules.
Agreed Frank, the US Empire is the LAST nation on earth to be lecturing us on democracy. Trump certainly didn’t win the popular vote, his opponent did (whatever people may think of her’) and that alone illustrates the undemocratic nature of the American system.
Throw in voter suppression by the Republicans to remove predominantly black voters from the electoral roll, and the stink of election-rigging becomes hard to ignore.
Whether Russia or America, democracy is under attack.
Trump is a symptom, not the cause of that corruption.
There was collusion!
Collusion between the Democrat Party and large swathes of the mainstream media to try and unseat a duly elected President.
You might even call it an attempted coup d’état.
None of this story ever made any sense to anyone capable of independent thought outside of the democrat bubble. I see two sides to this:
Firstly the elitist insiders were overly confident that Hillary was going to win. Deals were done. Jobs promised in the Clinton administration. Investigations into the Clintons were shut down in the belief she was an incoming President. There were after her ‘grace & favour’.
Secondly, the sneering, elitist clique that comprises the media (there and here!) believed their own BS. No way that horror little man could be elected! They ran a vastly biased election coverage to stop him, yet he was elected. It was an enormous slap in their collective face. The people had spoken. They had been ignored. They had lost their power to influence. So they had to double down in order to regain the upper hand. So they ran a two-year attack on the man, based entirely on lies. Now they’ve lost that too. They emerge with zero credibility.
What follows will be most interesting to watch:
I expect media investors will want to flush all those lying talking heads in order to regain lost ratings.
The Republican investigation into the Clintons, the media, the FBI and DoJ is now only just starting to move: Timed for 2020 elections… 😉
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