If we can ban single use plastic bags and fireworks – why the Christ can’t we ban machine guns for civilian use?

By   /   March 17, 2019  /   19 Comments

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‪If only we could spy on white supremacists with the ease we spied on Nicky Hager ‬and it’s not good enough to say, ‘he wasn’t on a watch list’ when all the watch lists are focused on Māori, Environmentalists, Greenpeace, the Greens, Earthquake victims and the MANA Party!

This diseased human being wrote the names of other mass murder Muslim killers on his death equipment and ranted about the UN migrant pact that the National Party were enflaming last month.

Remember last week when we were all being frightened about the ‘Jihadi Kiwi’ and the supposed threat from Islamist extremists?

Doesn’t the fear look shallow and crass in the sharp dawn of today.

Today is not the day to tell me our guns laws are already quite robust because they fucking obviously weren’t. Almost 100 dead and wounded can attest to that.

I don’t care what anyone says or how supposedly legal this purchase of a gun is – as far as I’m concerned NO ONE other than police or military requires a gun that can kill this quickly. I support rifles for hunters & farmers. But no civilian needs a machine gun.

Ban them all now.‬

Personally I love the semantics gun nuts use when this debate does come up. ‘Don’t call that a machine gun, it’s technically a semi-automatic!’ they cry,  as if that somehow makes the murder & violence more palatable, well at least they weren’t killed by a  machine gun, it was a ‘semi-automatic’.

The real reason gun nuts make these arguments is because the public recoil from the word ‘machine gun’, where as ‘semi-automatic rifle’ sounds far less lethal.

If it walks, talks & butchers like a machine gun, it’s a fucking machine gun.

The other huge question about this tragedy is that we still have had no clear explanation how a white supremacist managed to plan and execute a massacre and not appear on ANY Intelligence agency radar.

‪If only we could spy on white supremacists with the ease we spied on Nicky Hager ‬and it’s not good enough to say, ‘he wasn’t on a watch list’ when all the watch lists are focused on Māori, Environmentalists, Greenpeace, the Greens, Earthquake victims and the MANA Party!

When you consider the vast amount of illegal surveillance the intelligence agencies used to spy on the so called Urewera terrorists, how a white supremacist managed to arm up and commit this atrocity demands answers now.

Oh, and anyone ‘panic buying’ guns right now should be on a Government watchlist.

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19 Comments

  1. Janio says:

    Bomber, you lead the way with your caring blogs. I like the way you include local/state terror as part of your concern

  2. Jody Joseph says:

    The families of the Uruweras were subject to gunpoint interrogation by police in 2007, whole settlements including kids detained and intimidated by masked goons. Is it time to do the same to Christchurch, turn the whole city over?

  3. Liminal says:

    Excellent post Bomber and reflecting my own thoughts about this horrific event. The gun nuts (and NZ IS a gun-obsessed country with the amount of hunting that goes on and is promoted on on numerous TV shows) didn’t take long to emerge after Jacinda’s intentions were known – how could they be so damned insensitive? Similarly, with the apparent security failure – it has happened so many times in the UK, Europe and US and can’t help raise the suspicion the the security agencies ARE focused more on anti-establishment “threats” (dissidents, environmentalists, anti-frackers, anti-capitalists etc) than to genuine anti-societal figures such the the Christchurch mosque attacker. Kiwis will get over this, hopefully with a renewed purpose to keep this wonderful country (warts and all) a safe and accommodating place.

    • Sam Sam says:

      John Howard when he banned machine gun weapons did so very quickly not only in federal law but matching it with state law which is no mean feat because they have veto. After Port Morsby everyone kind of new there was no stoping it. Jacinda has to ram the ligislation through while every one is painfully aware why.

  4. Oh, and anyone ‘panic buying’ guns right now should be on a Government watchlist.

    Spot on.

    And if anyone is remotely in doubt what a gun nut sounds like, check out this ‘tweet’: https://twitter.com/cjohnson0106/status/1107061104201461761

    At first I thought it was a bad-taste pisstake. I was wrong. The person who made that comment has an entire conversation-thread on the evils of vaccines. Coupled with her gun-love, that person is a few sandwiches and a salad short of a picnic.

  5. Jase says:

    Spot on Martyn.
    100% agree with you.

    Coalition Politicians please take decisive action. No half measures.
    Australian experience gives you all the empirical evidence you need.

    No need to worry about political fallout. These gun nuts were never going to vote for you anyway.

  6. John W says:

    We are all dealing with a shocking event.

    That demands empathy, and reason in discussion.

    “Machine guns” evokes emotive and terrifying images that may well not help understanding of what is being talked about.

    “If it walks, talks & butchers like a machine gun, it’s a fucking machine gun.”

    Black and white to some but grey to many.

    NZ firearm laws do not allow automatic firearms to firearm license holders unless they have an endorsed category which is aimed mainly at collectors.

    Taken from Wikipedia to save dredging the legal documents.

    “Several different categories of licenses are permitted, with the lowest one permitting access to restricted semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, with limited capacity, while the higher levels which permit fully automatic weaponry and pistols are rarely issued to civilians. ”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Zealand

    “Machine guns” ( but properly defined) held by licensed collectors usually have the breech drilled and pinned so are inoperable.

    Military assault weapons featuring automatic fire and large magazine capacity are not available to a basic category license holder and officially never were.

    Semi automatic rifles and shot guns have a statutory limited magazine capacity of 5 rounds or less. You cannot buy a larger magazine or import one and its is an offense to modify a magazine beyond its standard or a 5 round capacity.
    A modified magazine is fairly obvious.

    The semi automatic feature can be useful in predator/ control where a rapid second or third shot may be useful when a fleeing or wounded pest may be difficult to immobilise. .

    Not too long ago each firearm was registered through a process of an individual applying for a license to procure, be vetted and examined on knowledge of firearm safety and basic NZ firearm law.
    Once a permit to Procure was issued to the applicant for a limited period, then must be presented to a seller, before a firearm was uplifted.

    Then the firearm and holder of the license to procure had a limited time to attend a police station to register the firearm which would be inspected for safety and conformity to the NZ firearms laws.

    Once the firearm was registered to a new owner, then that information was accumulated to a national database. Prior to computers the records were held on a printed paper filing system.

    A firearm owner had to account for any firearm registered in his name and could be called to do so at any time.

    The system broke down through lack of Police funding as rural police stations were understaffed and usually overloaded, so records became fragmented and incomplete. Funding of police was the issue.

    To revive the older procedure many tens of million will be needed and perhaps hundreds of million over many years. Police staffing will also be deployed away from other work.

    BUT IT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

    Another outcome likely is that many unused firearms held by present license holders may well be discarded, surrendered for destruction or end up available for others illegally.

    No present record of individual firearms is held by police so no tracking of a firearm nor responsibility for it to license holder can be mapped.

    Many license holders do not have a firearm but will borrow one when needed while others may have many firearms in their “collection”. Firearms must be securely housed and that provision is inspected at intervals or when a license is renewed.

    What ever changes in the present system are made, it is important that license holders remain anonymous to public gaze or they could become targets for criminals to burgle. A stolen firearm is not in the public interest.

    The old system served us far better that the present one that replaced it, in spite of all the justifications contrary to that voiced by politicians and others.

    Govt under funding has caused massive problem for the police and public of NZ. Gangs are known to have firearms as with drug dealers and many criminals. The black market is alive and well. Assault weapons are know to be smuggled into NZ for criminal use.

    The present law can disqualify a license holder if a drink drive offense is charged or for any other reason police may determine from time to time. The person is deemed to be of suitable character.

    Wikipedia again.

    “Under New Zealand law, some lawful, proper, and sufficient purpose is needed to use, discharge or carry any firearm, airgun, or similar weapon. The person carrying, using, or discharging the weapon is obliged to prove the purpose was lawful, proper, and sufficient. This requirement applies even if the person can legally possess the weapon. Exactly what constitutes a lawful, proper, and sufficient purpose is not defined in legislation and must be proven on a case by case basis. Hunting game, pest control and agricultural uses, sports, collection, and theatrics are all normally acceptable purposes but personal protection and self-defence are not.”

    NOTE WELL.
    “personal protection and self-defence are not.” – a legal reason to carry or use a firearm.

    Knee jerk reaction is never a sound basis for good law and we must not expect such of our politicians nor the Police.

    Public discussion at the moment is widespread and accurate information with accurate terms will help that.

    Emotive and inflammatory information is less helpful.

    Be it on the medias to get their act together and become informed.

  7. Marianne Hepple says:

    I would hope that the outpouring of love and compassion for the victims of this horrific tragedy may extend to all fellow citizens – the poor, the homeless, the sick and disabled of any race and creed – which has been sadly lacking in NZ society of late

  8. countryboy says:

    I think [the problem] is complex. The Ch Ch shootings isn’t just about guns, it’s about attitudes and ignorance.
    I live near where the gun club the nut went to, to shoot, train and socialise. Down ’round these here parts there’s one thing I find most alarming and that is of how ignorant, at a basic level, most are. I mean, they really are. You don’t need to go all the way to the Ozarks to get yourself a double dose of redneck hater. And I don’t mean ignorant in the ways of the iShit tech etc. I mean, in the way that happens when people constrict psychologically when they’re kept in polite confinement without outside influence. And that’s political. It’s neo liberalism, in fact.
    When roger douglas came, shat out the devil, then left with our stuff and things houses were to be bought down here for a dollar. I shit you not. Ohai, Nightcaps, Tapanui, Winton, Wyndham, Invercargill, Kaitangata, etc, all one time bustling towns with lots of shops and busy happiness. Then douglas and his cultist views and one by one, those towns emptied out. Once the one time vibrant rural communities were drained of their young and vital, a rot set in. The only young left were alcohol spectrum disorder types who needed written instructions, with pictures, to make a fist. Then, they done growed up and rooted out more sprogs of the same kind and behold! A societal dysfunction is born.
    It’d a been that societal dysfunction that attracted the Ch Ch shooter. Drawn to his own kin. He’d a stuck out like a dogs balls in, say, Sydney, Melbourne or even Brisbane.
    The cops down here have a lot of explaining to do and I’m sorry but I have a lot of rat stink in my nostrils. That was a metaphor by the way. I don’t actually, literally sniff rats. That’d be weird, even for down round these here parts.
    The terribly sad thing is, is that it’ll take many generations to heal what little roger douglas did almost overnight in creating little groups of monsters within which larger monsters can hide.

    • John W says:

      CB roger douglas was a plant.

      A creeping wee rat who had a massive off shore backing in the shadows.
      Many small communities crashed not long after he got rid of Post Offices and corporatised our Govt department.

      Then the sell offs to off new owners of our treasured public assets tailored for our community needs.

      The rot of capitalism was always there but he gave it a new life and took it past a point where it became over whelming for all but a few big players who are now controlling and reinforcing further predatory theft.

      The easy change is to parts of a gun law but that will do little to address the problem which is basically not about guns.
      I am not intending to defend any potential and actual gun problem.

      It what else needs to be in place to make this a fairer and healthier place for all.

      Speed kills and more speed kills more. But we “resist” lower road speed limits. The motor industry campaigns on that one.

  9. cushla says:

    So who of the big players in the economy are benefitting from having such inequality in society and benefitting from having white supremacy ideology recruiting a section of the have nots and pitting them against the rest of us have nots? Obviously big economic players have always benefitted from racism. American corporations that grew wealth through trade with nazi Germany. Corporations growing their wealth through access to oil and resources in the Middle East post US intervention. Corporations that benefitted directly from colonisation e.g. the NZ Company in NZ. Racism underpinned all of those activities. And influence over their governments. But who are benefitting by the sort of racist divisions that can lead to such horror? Who? And where do they live?

  10. Mike the Lefty says:

    It sickened me to read that gun shops are presently doing a roaring trade as gun lovers “stock up” to beat looming gun restriction legislation.
    I can’t do much but I will do one thing: I have e-mailed Trademe demanding that they cease allowing guns and ammunition to be traded on their website, and if they refuse (as they most certainly will) I will cancel my membership.
    What will I achieve here?
    Probably nothing, but my hope is that a chain reaction of people cancelling their memberships might force a rethink.
    Spread the word!
    Our fightback against guns starts here!
    Unity is strength.

    • Mike the Lefty says:

      Update:
      Apparently many others have been threatening to cancel their Trademe memberships if semi-automatic weapons are not removed from the website, including ex National MP Tau Henare!
      I got a reply from Trademe saying that they had taken semis off the website and were reviewing their firearms trading policies.
      I would rather have ALL firearms taken off but I suppose a small step forward is better than nothing.
      We shall see how far this goes.

      • Mjolnir says:

        Tau Henare and Ben Thomas both been vocal of social media demanding ban on semi-automstics. On news tiday, Bridges is now “open” to the proposal

        This is way past partisan party politics

        This is a mater of lives being saved from future terrorists

        Semi automatics have to go . Theres no purpose for their presence in a civilisaed society

  11. esoteric pineapples says:

    “If we can ban single use plastic bags and fireworks”

    In fact, we can’t even ban fireworks despite thousands of New Zealanders signing a petition for that. I reckon part of the reason for this is the neo-liberal each–man-for-himself-is-freedom philosophy that was introduced to New Zealand in the 1980s. The public good always takes a back seat to individual freedoms.

  12. esoteric pineapples says:

    Has anyone discussed the Christchurch attack and gun control from a neo-liberal/monetarist perspective?
    In 1984 Monetarist economic policies were introduced to New Zealand which were actually social policies as well, and can be summed up simply as individual rights are more important than the public good. It came in all sorts of guises such as “user pays”, “level playing fields” and “trickle down theory” and attacks on the union movement ie an economy where you give individuals as much freedom as possible and remove the state, is a more efficient productive economy. Anything that opposes individual rights is bad.
    Since then, there has been an inertia in national and local government in implementing any sorts of restrictions on individual rights whenever there is a conflict between the two.
    The fact is, that despite thousands of New Zealanders signing a petition to ban fireworks, and hundreds of animals killed, injured and frightened every year, we are still no closer to banning fireworks and probably have less chance of banning them than banning semi-automatic guns.
    You see the same thing being played out in issue after issue, and in virtually all cases, national and local government is either slow to act, and only after huge public pressure, or continues to favour individual rights and not act at all.


 
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