The best part of the Chinese spy inside NZ Government story from overseas news agencies is their shock it happened, followed by their shock that NZers are ‘meh’ about the revelation.
Unless it involves the All Blacks, MAFS or house renovation, we don’t care.
Kiwis would care if it turned out the Chinese were spying on the All Blacks.
Kiwis would care if Chinese TV in NZ bought the rights to MAFS and forced people to watch it on a Freeview channel higher than 13.
Kiwis would care if Chinese building materials for the Block were cheaper in Australia than here.
But would Kiwis care if the Chinese Government actually managed to get a spy into our own Caucus inside the National Party?
Our combination of general apathy, right wing media that look the other way when it comes to anything National do mixed with an impolite fear that you’re being xenophobic if you ever mention Chinese influence anywhere have combined to give a mighty, ‘meh’ from the masses.
I hate us sometimes.
The geopolitical cold war between China and America as they battle for dominance of the Pacific has begun to get hot.
The trade war is on with Trump deciding last week to not only penalise Chinese steel imports, but he gloriously savaged allies as well.
Trump truly is Amerika uber alles.
The soft power China is using in Australia has become a National security issue inside Australia with an enormous inquiry into the power and influence of soft China power.
The case against China is that as a totalitarian communist regime with a president for life, their long plan is to manipulate and dominate the political and economic landscape of host countries in the pacific for Chinese strategic interests.
The counter argument is that this is a racist attack on China by attempting to define Chinese interactions as manipulated directly by the Government.
Meanwhile, back in the sleepy shire, the Canadians are warning the other 5 Eye Allies that NZ is a plaything for Chinese interests and their dominance of our political establishment is so complete that maybe NZ should be poked in its 5th eye and remove us from the club because we leak like a Split Enz song.
Throw us out of your mass surveillance club? Honest? Promise?
Oh please Br’er Rabbit, don’t throw us in the Briar patch!
From a purely strategic point of view, one could genuinely argue from a pro-NZ perspective, that getting kicked out of the 5 Eyes club would mean we were no longer a target for Chinese influence, so actually that would be quite beneficial for us.
Unfortunately I don’t see us getting kicked out and the Canadians have been drinking too much maple syrup. There’s no question that the National Party have been bought and paid for, and that is a genuine concern and the total lack of focus or debate about that inside NZ is equally hilarious and dangerous at the same time, but Labour, the Greens and NZ First don’t have those influences to the same degree.
There is some suggestion by the Canadians that Chinese money is inside Labour, while there certainly is, because the Chinese give money to everyone, the influence that comes with those donations is totally absent in policy. There just isn’t any policy being promoted that benefits Chinese interests, in fact with the law to ban foreign domestic ownership, one would argue that those influences have not been successful if donations were made to influence them.
What should we be doing?
I think our first allegiance is to NZ as an independent Pacific nation with its own independent foreign policy.
That should be our touchstone value in everything we do.
We do not want America expanding its military control or mass surveillance state powers into the Pacific anymore than we want China to.
China’s behaviour in the South Pacific over the ownership of reefs they have built into military bases defies claims that their rise to power and expansion of influence is not aggressive.
America’s ‘respect my authority’ positioning and trade wars aren’t alleviating tensions, they are ratcheting them up.
If we wish to maintain our Independence, we need to show leadership by openly criticising both sides and asking for a more peaceful, productive and collaborative co-operation in the Pacific, especially at a a time of climate change and increasing poverty across the Pacific.
I think we have a leader in Jacinda who could articulate this powerful vision and provide that leadership, because if we don’t make a radical departure now we are going to get sucked into the geopolitical vortex between these two and be forced to choose a side that in’t in our true national interests.
We have an enormous number of Pacific Islanders and Asian-New Zealanders living here, they are a natural resource as cultural bridges back to the rest of the Pacific, why not take the strength of our optimistic youth and their fresh ways of inclusion and use them as a Pacific wave of diplomacy to work together and not against in the Pacific?
Why let the war mongers dictate the narrative? Why not have a leader who can articulate a vision of co-operation in the Pacific challenge that narrative by being direct in our criticism while inclusive in our solutions?
To be a true leader you have to fall and get back up.
Train while they sleep.
Learn while they party.
Respect when they fall.
Show love.
China has moved in here to take iover no doubt here, and I have seen the Chinese arrogence deeped over the past two years so we are now under chinese control politically I am sure the policicians feel the pressure but are to gutless to say so.
I saw China take iover Kenya in 1970 when I was there so they have sl;owly expanded their policy of empire building so we are under a chinese communist government infuence now.
We are certainly under CHINESE control, when CHINESE visa and residency applications are made at the rate of 200+ per week with only 4% refusals on the first application. REVUE’S are processed within 15 days, so its almost > 2% rejections. There are now, more CHINESE living in NZ that MAORI’S. Immigration NZ, has ordained itself as untouchable by being ” Judge and Jury “, on its own internal decisions. EVEN ENGLISH people, HAPPILY MARRIED, cannot get visa’s to remain because, they didn’t support each other, the same amount, on social media-yet, a criminal that has just been RELEASED FROM PRISON, FROM A 3 YEAR TERM OF IMPRISONMENT,( for drugs and brutal assault ), can walk into NZ freely, without any qualms or questions ? AND IMMIGRATION NZ SAYS THEY ARE UN-BIASED IN THEIR DECISIONS ?–THIS COUNTRY HAS ALREADY TURNED INTO ” A LITTLE CHINA “. In a few years time NZ CITIZENS will have to BOW to show respect to any persons of CHINESE DECENT.
+100…well said…we should do well to heed Canadian and Australia’s warnings
the Tibetan refugees are the ones we should be taking in
https://www.savetibet.org/
….not rich Chinese who buy up New Zealanders precious scarce housing and assets…and strip the country
http://www.savetibetanrivers.org/
Well. The White House excluded Beijing from RIMPAC which means NZDF byproxy is excluded from China. China air does a good business class seat for $3000 and a bit return to Auckland. I wouldn’t recommend traveling economy because they don’t tend to let normies into Tibet and the documentation needed has no garentee unless you’re there to do business. Hope that helps. Good luck.
I must admit I was going to go easy on them. I understand there pain. No other people has lost, suffered, shamed so hard by colonisation than China and feudal blood lords terrorised the landscape before that. Famine took a hundred million Chinese during the 1930’s. Now 88 years later China is quickly over taking the west in all areas from aerospace technology, weapons, manufacturing, incomes. It’s all out in the open now. An independent New Zealand foreign policy could not replicate this type of control over Chinese interests. And with America in full backwardization we are left with out the US to rebalance trade vs China.
XI Jiping is a good guy as far as I know. But he’s wrong about Chinese immigration.
You can not be a real kiwi when you are half foreigner. And it’s that simple. Love you Xi but you’re wrong. Hope you remember me. But please address the nonsense that goes on.
If any one has a doubt about me saying Xi is wrong then let’s have a polite discussion in public.
New Zealand enterprise is the real deal. We have very strong and very hard to reproduce products. When it comes to research and the application of unique ideas. Watch how we create energy independence mixed with public asset purchases and mixed with some unique opportunities that we will stabilise and make available to those who live in a jurisdiction that have accepting regulations and rules.
Market pricing mechanisms help get the feel and pulse of the market. It’s not ultimate of course but it’s what we use to set price (For those that don’t know what I’m talking about they are pre-payed fees for New Zealand’s products and services, and that’s supply and demand) but think about it, Uber uses market pricing to come up with a price, LIFT does it, AirBnB does it, doctors do it, a lot of people do it. So using market pricing feedback to create a more perfect pricing model is a very very good idea. So of course the Coalition Government is going to take this into consideration. It’s apart of how New Zealand’s business model was put together. So this government does have big undertakings on the back burner.
What about John Key and 1MBD
Why would you expect any different? No one gives the merest shit about the level of US (or British, or Australian ffs) interference in our country. Did you think the ‘foreign-looking’-ness of the Chinese would mean something?
The Chinese Communist Party has never been shy about sharing its view that outsiders should stay out of China’s internal affairs. However they’ve never followed their own advice when it comes to the internal affairs of other countries, especially Western democracies. They are no doubt amazed at how cheap it is to buy political influence in these countries, especially New Zealand. A few cosy sinecures for washed-up, former political hacks on the boards of Chinese companies is all it seems to take to recruit enthusiastic cheerleaders who will champion the rights of “overseas investors” to buy up the place.
It is also a terrible shame for the future of New Zealand that the unscrupulous and greedy National Party is willing, even enthusiastic, about selling the country out from under the feet of its own citizens for what amounts to a remarkably small return in the long run.
The Chinese Communist Party is a nasty, authoritarian dictatorship with a newly “elected” ‘Emperor for Life’. There is nothing remotely racist about resisting the occupation of New Zealand by these enormously corrupt human rights abusers and murderers.
+100 …well said!
That about sums it up! No leadership from the Greens or Labour on this issue and Winston is far too quiet. Basically we need to stop increasing our population full stop but capitalism doesnt work without increasing population to expand ever more consumption. If only there was an environmental focussed party in government.
If this sounds familiar, consider getting yourselves a proper education: https://youtu.be/cfHAiIq-Yeo
“Basically we need to stop increasing our population full stop”
Agreed. NZ needs a population cap of 5million. and 5million tourists a year is enough too. More than this is too much pressure on the countries natural beauty. If the population is capped and you have economic growth everyone can have a better living. How well off would our people be if we still had a population of 3million like 30 years ago.
Five-eyes is a club of WASPs – how else do you link US, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ?
The sinification of NZ doesn’t look too attractive to other club members.
Firstly I would like to congratulate Sir Bill English on his knighthood. I read he is working to further ways to help children in poverty-good stuff Sir Bill. Sir Bill was not concerned about Jiang Yang’s involvement with Chinese spies but unsurprisingly Mr Jiang drew the attention of the SIS. Sir Bill said that the issue was raised by nameless people to smear his party. Perhaps people like yourself Martin. Nevertheless the curious case of Mr Jiang raises some questions.
1. Does the SIS have any power to monitor Mr Jiang’s communication with China?
2. What level of communication back to China would be considered inappropriate or even treasonous? Briefing papers? policy? Leadership challenges?
3. Mr Jiang being a NZ citizen- what steps could be taken to ensure Mr Jiang is loyal to NZ? What level of security clearance would Mr Jiang have?
I could go on with a long list of these questions, but I suggest that the only control available is the oath that Mr Jiang took on entering parliament. With increasing diversity in NZ the curious case of Mr Jiang and Ms Ghahraham will become less curious. If you are waiting for meaningful change remember the old chinese proverb “man who waits for roast duck to fly into mouth waits a very very long time.”
1. Yes
2. State secretes
3. Each MP should familiarise themselves with parliamentary privilege.
The older ones would be more familiar with security intelligence but we are all digital immigrants so we speak with an accent. It’s still mainly analogue. Analysts have to go through an analog process so every time an intelligence report is generated you need a supervisors signature or it’s supposed to be destroyed. Now there are plenty of examples of This check and balance braking down but it’s mostly just individuals false interpretation of the legislative frame work. So SIS officers are just doing there own thing and not maintaining the integrity of New Zealand Security Intelligence Service Act.
I have never understood how that Chinese spy became a New Zealand MP in the first place.
I am also shocked at the number of overseas born MPs in our parliament. It seems to me quite unbalanced. Quite frankly people standing for parliament should be New Zealand born, or have had a long period of permanent residency in New Zealand – like 20 yrs or more – if we are to hold the public’s trust in the quality and purpose of what issues forth from New Zealand’s Parliament.
I also think that positions in government departments such as in Immigration, NZ housing and WINZ, should be staffed by New Zealand born citizens so decision making is not put at risk of ethnic, religious, or racial favouritism or/and underhand facilitation. We have allowed or been tricked into allowing far too many citizens from third world countries into New Zealand over the last 20 years. Many of them from countries where corruption is accepted as normal!
There is no way I feel comfortable about what is happening in my country of birth, but I don’t know how I am to help reverse the mess and restore trust. What is the effective way to protest these days?
I have never understood how that Chinese spy became a New Zealand MP in the first place.
I am also shocked at the number of overseas born MPs in our parliament. It seems to me quite unbalanced. Quite frankly people standing for parliament should be New Zealand born, or have had a long period of permanent residency in New Zealand – like 20 yrs or more – if we are to hold the public’s trust in the quality and purpose of what issues forth from New Zealand’s Parliament.
I also think that positions in government departments such as in Immigration, NZ housing and WINZ, should be staffed by New Zealand born citizens so decision making is not put at risk of ethnic, religious, or racial favouritism or/and underhand facilitation. We have allowed or been tricked into allowing far too many citizens from third world countries into New Zealand over the last 20 years. Many of them from countries where corruption is accepted as normal!
There is no way I feel comfortable about what is happening in my country of birth, but I don’t know how I am to help reverse the mess and restore trust. What is the effective way to protest these days?
Every Election in NZ people vote red or blue they don’t really look at the names or know anything about the candidates. There is probably only 10-15% of the population who are politically engaged ?
Most people are too busy with their own lives to actually care what is going on in their country ?
*story time with my neice*
Me:..stop running around sit down I have a story to tell…, did you ever hear the story of Darth Plagueis The Wise?
*neice nods no*
Me: I thought not. It’s not a story your mother would tell you. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side, he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice destroyed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself….
Neice:lets read this book
Me:..,*sigh* -_- 1 fish 2 fish red fish blue fish
[Comment declined for publication. Offensive comments and bogus email accounts are not acceptable. – Scarletmod]
Radical – Way beyond That
I would have thought by now we have realised that Jacinda is not a stuck in the mud Bennett, a knotted tongue Adams, or a threadbare Collins.
Be careful whom you Despise
For you maybe describing yourself
Our PM has her eye on the Future (our Climate destruction) and her mind on the dreadful inequality that exists now.
She is seeking solutions – and in such a short time has set in motion superb initiatives. Note the Goals and Fundings given to the Regions.
Jacinda is way above every politician in this land. And I suggest is being observed worldwide.
Lets not forget Raymond Huo
Where the hell is Winston and NZ First on this !!!!!!!!!!!
“The soft power China is using in Australia has become a National security issue inside Australia….”
I read the link relating to the above comment. It’s clear from that article that concern about China’s activities in Australia isn’t widespread among those with expertise in Australia-China relations. In fact, this comment seems to encapsulate such concerns as there are:
“The geopolitical cold war between China and America as they battle for dominance of the Pacific has begun to get hot.”
It is to a considerable extent the Australian government – which, given that Australia is an ally of the US, must go where it goes in regard to foreign policy, especially with regard to China – expressing concern.
“Our combination of general apathy…… mixed with an impolite fear that you’re being xenophobic if you ever mention Chinese influence anywhere….”
Less apathy, I think, than general ignorance about what happens here politically. Most people younger than my generation don’t read newspapers or watch TV, so unless they are specifically interested in politics and know where to look for information, how the hell would they know what’s going on?
As to xenophobia: look what happened to Labour over the Chinese-sounding names business. Never mind a reasoned exploration of the issues raised: just scream “xenophobia!” at the unfortunate politicians who dared to suggest that Chinese were disproportionately buying up property in Auckland. Which of course they were, as anyone trying to buy property up there at the time knew full well.
“The case against China is that as a totalitarian communist regime with a president for life, their long plan is to manipulate and dominate the political and economic landscape of host countries in the pacific for Chinese strategic interests.”
As anyone who’s been paying attention to the political situation over the past 60+ years will know, if that were the Chinese intention, they’re doing a piss-poor job of it.
And anyone familiar with Chinese history will also know that as a polity, China has never had hegemonic ambitions like, for instance, the unlamented British Empire. Or the US – with which we’re all too familiar. The spread of the Chinese into South-East Asia happened over centuries and was driven by trade: silk merchants, rather than soldiers, as was the practice of the West.
All this fear of China looks like the western “reds-under-the-bed” propaganda with which we’ve been bombarded for all of my longish lifetime. I’m not sure why I should be more concerned about Chinese-born people in Parliament than about Americans, or Indians, or Pakistanis. Or Iranians, come to that: speaking of totalitarian regimes… or theocracies, in Iran’s case.
I note Chinese activity in the south China Sea. We should be surprised at it? That’s China’s front door: of course they’re going to put resources into guarding it. And ever since the start of that egregious Obama fellow’s so-called “pivot to Asia”, the US has constantly needled China; small wonder China has responded with a greater military presence in the south China sea.
I’d need something more substantive than hysteria from the Yanks or the Canucks, before I’d begin to worry about undue political influence from China on our polity.
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