From TV’s “The Nation” – Patrick Gower and James Shaw have a heart-to-heart





Saturday, 12 August – On TV3’s ‘The Nation, Patrick Gower interviewed the Green Party’s remaining co-leader, James Shaw;



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For a while, the interview was low-key, with Gower exercising old school  journalistic professionalism. It’s as if someone slipped him a nice camomile tea laced with a couple of shots of  bourbon and just a smidgeon of valium.

The interview progressed well, with James Shaw being somewhat irritatingly ‘coy’ about the Green’s campaign re-set. Gower kept his frustration in check as Shaw did the dance of the Seven Veils, but without the peeling-away of said veils.

Then, at 6:10 into the interview, there was this jaw-dropping exchange between Gower and Shaw;

Patrick Gower: Well, an important aspect of that is what Metiria Turei’s venture around this benefit fraud was all about, which was empowering the disenfranchised. Now, where do they sit — those people that she tried to reach, or, as you’ve argued, did reach now they’ve seen someone who’s stood up for them slapped down and destroyed, effectively? What message does that send to those people that you were trying to reach that this is what happens when someone speaks up for you?

James Shaw: Yeah, Patrick, I have to say that’s been a huge personal concern for me is — what message does that send? And so it is a really important part of our campaign that the people that have come forward over the course of the last four weeks in response to Metiria’s campaign who said, ‘Finally, I feel like there’s someone in the House of Representatives who actually represents me,’ we are going to be speaking directly to those people and say, ‘The Green Party is here for you. We still stand for you.’ And it is our goal to end poverty. I mean, Metiria herself said that is was always bigger than her.

Patrick Gower: Yeah, but what do those words mean when what they see is she stood up for them and she was taken down by her own party in some senses? You guys didn’t stand behind her.

James Shaw: Patrick, we absolutely stood behind her. She had the full support of me, the caucus, the party executive. I mean, we had thousands of volunteers all over the country.

Now – what’s wrong with Gower’s comments?

Why – when listening/reading his words – does one feel rising nausea and anger?

And why does the word “hypocrisy” ring loud?

Perhaps I’ve crossed over into a Parallel Universe… Bernie Sanders is still President of the United States, right?






Mediaworks/TV3: The Nation – Patrick Gower interviews James Shaw (video)

Scoop media: The Nation – Patrick Gower interviews James Shaw (transcript)

Previous related blogposts

Some background info for Guyon Espiner

Time to speak up for Metiria Turei!

Time to speak up for Metiria Turei! (Part Rua)

The most grievous betrayal of all – two so-called “Green” MPs who should know better

Metiria Turei has started something






Acknowledgement for cartoon: Toby Morris, Radio NZ.



= fs =


  1. unbelievable!
    Is Gower now trying to cover his bloody tracks and set yet another narrative?
    Shaw and the Greens were excoriated by all and sundry for standing with Metiria
    When Shaw says the media pundits are just doing their job, the question arises…what is their job?
    From where I stand, forget about the 4th estate
    They’re in the retail industry…manufacturing and packaging knee jerk opinion to sell newspapers and time slot advertising for their corporate owners
    Audrey Young said in one of her nastier pieces that a colleague of hers had spent a week in the National library trying to track down Metiria’s flatmates
    For godsakes!! That time could have been spent backgrounding the whole poverty story in Metiria’s time on the benefit and today
    No wonder MSM is on the skids worldwide

    • Yes yes I totally agreed, good journalism would have followed the story of extreme poverty instead of pandering to the elite!

  2. I truly don’t know how you manage to stomach watching that creep. Nothing further needs be said.

  3. And on Q+A today the motor mouth National Propagandist SS Joyce was allowed AGAIN to rule the time to speak.

    Lisa Owens made the same mistake as before by not controlling this overbearing propagandist to hog the loins share of the speaking time.

    Lisa Owens was sloppy and gave national another free pass during this debate with labour’s Grant Robinson.

    Sad act was sent by Lisa Owens she should be fired for brazen show of allowing National to rule the debate again.

    • I found Corin Dann’s interviewing of Joyce (and Parker) to be balanced, fair, but still hard-hitting. Still is the style of interviewing that is productive and doesn’t leave the viewer wondering “WTF was all that about?” When the subject of debate becomes the media personality rather than the issues, then there’s a problem.

      • Back in the day (Let’s say pre Mary Lambie) You couldn’t steal other journo’s scoops because the technology that allows us in today’s age, to share content and give our opinion on content didn’t exist. Now that we can share Facebook posts and write our own opinion over it, well now every one is pretty much saying the same shit. Never been a big fan of this kind of consensus.

    • Did anybody else notice the smile on Joyce’s face (on the Nation) when Robertson wouldn’t rule out a CGT?

      I see it (Robertson not ruling out a CGT) led the news later that evening.

      • Seem to recall that Robertson pointed out the obvious – National has already done it with the ‘Bright Line Test’. It was Joyce, was it not, who said the extension to five years would be a CGT.

        • While they did discuss the Bright Line Test and Labour’s plan to extend it, it was the possibility of Labour going beyond that (with their Tax Working Group) which Grant wouldn’t rule out that got him (Joyce) grinning.

      • It would be wrong to rule out anything.

        The plan is to try to develop a rational tax system using deep investigation after the election.

        We have to find a way of limiting rampant wealth accumulation, resulting from the neo-liberal experiment. CGT may or may not play a part in this.

        If the press are making a meal of this, they are either disingenuous or just ignorant.

        Although the two states are not mutually exclusive, of course.

        • “It would be wrong to rule out anything.”

          Unfortunately, Labour doesn’t hold a vast amount of voter trust. And voters largely prefer to know what it is they are actually voting for. Therefore, being coy on details tends to turn voters off.

          Additionally, it opens them up to attack from the opposition implanting speculation (of the worst kind) in the policy void.

        • 100% NICKE

          National always change their minds after getting the treasury benches back.

          Their word is rubbish now.

      • National hasn’t ruled out a royalty charge for water.
        Don’t hear any interviewer asking them about that do we?
        The MSM are not really interested in proper debate about policy.
        They only want to talk about fluff and stuff that they hope will make their National mates look good and everybody else bad.

        • True that lefty,
          This deceptive Government will bring in royalties because they will need more money to buy their Gatekeepers happy.

          Get rid of bad rubbish 23/9/17.

  4. “Was taken down by her own party in some senses?”

    It was interesting Gower had the audacity to frame the question that way considering his role. Though, to be fair, he seemed to be hinting at the loss of unity, thus the damage done by Kennedy Graham and David Clendon’s publicly announced opposition.

  5. Our family watching this Q+A 13/8/17 charade thought it was a far lower than usual standard of journalistic integrity!!!!!

    Except for when Patrick Gower boldly said Steven Joyce actually “told a Porkie” when he was rounding up today’s 13/8/17 Q+A.

    From memory Gower said “Joyce said 1000 homes had been built in the last two years”

    Then Gower said he hoped “Joyce corrected this by doing a “fact checking” afterwards.”

    Bad marks all around from TV3 today.

  6. I received an facebook post via a facebook friend from someone on the left claiming the Greens hadn’t backed MT. I said that was ludicrous but couldn’t fathom how someone could even say that given the evidence

  7. I think it was underhand for Gower to try to blame the Green party for MT’s resignation when they clearly supported her strongly, but that gave James the cue to correct that suggestion. But the point Gower made could have been drawn from a comment I made myself on an earlier blog. So I can’t condemn it. Her resignation for whatever reason under the circumstances has inevitably damaged the appeal she made. She drew an empathy from a slice of the population with her stand, and that established her personally as the champion of that group. No-one else can now seamlessly take over that role in the short term. It will take a concerted effort by the Green Machine to capture and run with it. Of course this diverts their message a little further from a focus on environmental issues, but now they are in that frame they should capture as much as they can of MT’s appeal.
    D J S

  8. I didn’t like James Shaw when he first came onto the scene, mainly because I considered him being too centrist for the Greens. However recently during the party’s crisis, he has been coming across as being very confident and self assured, none more so than in this interview with Patrick Gower, where Shaw’s strength of character came through strongly. He’s certainly not one to be tangled with by two bit journalists!

    The prize would have to be the look on Shaw’s face at 7:35 when he responded to Gower’s questioning about the Greens taking Metiria down, through lack of support from the party, which was was priceless. It could have sunk a thousand ships, without causing a ripple. Shaw didn’t have to say anything. That look said it all! Made Gower look like a complete amateur.

    I have to say Shaw conducted himself extremely well and talked through Gower’s continuous interruptions, without hesitation. Another point, Shaw like Meteria, didn’t resort to personal attacks or demonstrate arrogance towards the interviewer. Instead he answered all the questions concisely and kept to the point, not attempting to veer away from what was being asked of him. He didn’t allow Gower to get any hits either, something that would have frustrated Gower to the extreme.

    Can only say well done James Shaw. If this is his leadership style, then bring it on. Go the Greens.

  9. MSM is infested with nasty white racist, narcissistic upper class people, who have no idea how the majority of New Zealanders live. They sit in their Ivory Towers in Auckland and Wellington quaffing champagne, sneering at the average New Zealander. Mostly paid for by the taxpayer and the National Parties Media Barrons.

  10. Yes MARY A,

    James should be sitting down with Winston and working out a deal as he is more business savvy than MT was.

    He may want to learn from the master himself.

    I was surprised when he said Green’s are not the “Environmental Party”
    Quote; – James Shaw said; “The Greens aren’t the ‘environment party’, they’re the Green party.”

  11. Come on, are you people surprised? This is all a game, an evil game, to set the candidates they do not really like up to fail, again and yet again. Gower is an expert in this, he does it all the time, he is the most cunning and dishonest ‘journalist’ this country has, he is like the undertaker going to a baptism, greasing up to the parents of the baby, handing them his ‘business card’ as the undertaker, looking for future business, ‘should anything go wrong’.

    This is how gullible so many people in Little Aotearoa are, they let these flies on a piece of turd get away all the time, thinking they are glamorous kind of sarcastic heroes or whatever.

    FFS, Paddy Gower just tried so damned hard to take the shit out of James Shaw, it was naivety resembling or worse even, than what Metiria displayed, admitting her ‘benefit fraud’ over twenty years ago.

    Why did James bother going there?

    I just commented on Open Mic, after three days of utter distress and depression, at how people in NZ Inc can put up with all this crap!

    Today the Greens had a ‘reset’, ffs again, what a dismal performance, why not walk strong and bold, and tell the outside world, hey, we stand tall and will go strong on this or that, but this is what they present now:

    That is the ‘newsy’ stuff the public witness, this is their website now:

    Gower’s undertaker talk on The Nation, trying to be nice about burying an opposition leader:

    If any here think this is going to solve things, what James and the Greens warm up now, old stale bread, an old slogan, similarly repetitive old feelgood videos and placards, totally in contrast of reality in this lost society, they will be lucky to stay in Parliament over five percent.

    Five to nine percent is what I predict, and they need a true new leadership team, as this is a walking disaster now. Sorry I feel for all that new candidate talent, ending up with this.

    But then again, where is the alternative now, fight at least, and some here will give you a protest vote, in support, given what happened last week, ensuring the Greens survive.

    What NZ needs is a real party, a real alternative, and we are not getting it this election campaign, Jacinda will just be watered down beer, with no kick, she will be lemonade with a bit of sparkle and nice pics like via Instagram, and little substance.

    The Labour water policy is hopeless too, I watched David Parker explain in on Q+A:

    While he is one of a few truly smart brains and legally expert persons left in Labour’s caucus, he missed an opportunity to sell it better.

    Simply imposing a tax or royalty is meaning fuck all, it has to be part of a package of measures, where those irrigating get incentives to invest in highly efficient watering systems, such as the Israelis propagate and sell, to save water, to pollute less, and to avoid pollution from the start.

    Otherwise sanctions and regulations need to be in place, the way Labour have released it, it is too vague and leaves them open to all kinds of ridiculous attacks. It should have been clearer, better presented and legally thought through, which it is not, so the Nats and Fed Farmers will shoot it to pieces.

    The MSM do not do their fucking job, as they never check the figures, and only run like headless chickens all over the place, asking bizarre questions that cannot even be answered. They do not do their homework and never serve the public.

    We are getting the same as the last elections, in the end Mike Hosking will ask Jacinda hard questions about some unclear figures and stats, she will shrug shoulders, and Bill and the Gang will get a fourth term, fucking hopeless, but that is what you get dear Kiwis, revolution is not what you fancy anyway, right?

  12. Patrick Gower showed himself up to be a total dishonest hypocrite with that statement. If he can’t own the relentless hounding of Metiria Turei, then it shows very clearly he is ashamed of himself. He just hasn’t got the guts to own his mistake.

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