“Join us despite our middle class watered down policies” is a mighty battle cry.
Ummmmm. I’m not sure what the fuck just happened there, but the Greens today for their campaign launch just opened war with NZ First, which could either be the stupidest or smartest thing they’ve done to date.
Attacking a NZ First + Labour Party Government as unacceptable was a strong position to take, but then to openly attack NZ First was so surprising that the actual audience didn’t know whether they should clap because they were in so much shock at this open declaration of war.
There was a ‘did she just say that’ feeling about the pause in clapping.
The Greens are more middle class than ever, and middle class identity politics have replaced environmental activism within the Greens. NZ First are an anathema to the Cosmopolitan Elitism that is the Wellington Twitter bubble that the Greens inhabit, so open warfare with NZ First is exactly the kind of dynamism the Greens need to try to inflame to prevent the obviousness of a NZ First-Labour minority Government from occurring.
Antagonism towards NZ First is what the middle class activist base want and it will make sure they turn up on election day, the problem is that Winston takes this shit personally and while exciting the base matters, burning bridges with Winston when he is likely to leap frog the Greens as the 3rd largest party means he’s going to screw them if he cuts a deal with Labour.
This friction between the values of Green Party middle class identity politics activists and the cross burning banjo twanging jamboree that is NZ First was always going to be a hell of a tightrope to traverse, the Green Leadership have decided to inflame that energy rather than manage it.
The Greens won the battle today but look very far away from winning the War in September when Winston will want payback.
With Greens declaring war on NZ First, Winston is going to wake up to find a horses head made of tofu in his bed.
It is sad if it was as bad as that , here is the chance to be in government and having a hot headed approach could not only jeopardize that , but a change in government and a final end to National.
That should have been the priority and keeping the eye on the ball. But this is so typical of the division in NZ politics . Clamoring for the crumbs of power , they cut their nose off to spite their face. I hope it doesn’t end in flames , a Labour led government with both the Greens and NZ First could be an incredibly dynamic one .
And a democratic one precisely because of the differences , – as opposed to the National government that is comprised of lapdogs.
+100
Yeah, l agree with you Martin. I think it was dumb of the Greens to take on New Zealand First. Instead of taking on National, Maori or Act they’ve taken on one party they potentially will need to work with.
Who ever advised them to take this path was not playing the long game.
Hang on a minute, Cindy. You say that the Greens should be taking on the Maori Party and ACT because – I’m assuming – they are stooges for the Nats?
But the very same could apply to NZ First. As has been pointed out, Winston Peters refuses point blank to declare whether he favours coalition with National or Labour.
So, if the Left ignores NZ First in the hope and prayer that Winnie picks Labours, we are essentially giving him a free pass.
Very clever of Winston; keep everyone guessing and in the process no one challenges him and his dubious policies. If that’s not the best strategy since the Year Dot, I don’t know what is.
I decline to play Winston’s game and I’ll be challenging his policies as and when necessary.
I agree, Frank. Winston has a proven record of claiming to be anti-National govt, gathering in protest votes, then afterwards betraying them by forming Govt with National. He will do it again.
Winston will screw the Greens anyway, so don’t vote for him and his crew of misfits. Easy.
Spot on Frank, as usual.
Those buggers are almost certainly going to have to work together if they want to see Govt change; should focus on their own policies & attack the National Govt
100% Dave I agree,
I was a Green Party member in HB in 1999-2001 until we as a group of green Party members we were actively fighting an Auckland developer to save a beach called (Aramoana) east of Waipawa from development and our astonishment HQ of Green Party told our Green group to leave the green party and form our own to group to fight this issue, so that has left us so badly beaten up since then, as we thought Green Party policy always was against private interests taking public beach areas for private developments!!!!!
Unbelievable! but I still want greens to join with labour/NZ First to form a new way forward now as we cannot allow any further destruction of our NZ by a corrupt Nactional Government.
Remember three years ago those three leaders joined together at a dinner party to photo opportunity to float their banner as “a Government in waiting” remember???
Simply now we must stick together; [- to defeat this evil Government and send them to the back benches come September.
Unfortunately, CG, as much as I share your desires to get rid of this hopeless government, a vote for NZ First is by no means a guarantee for that. Until Peters decides to trust the electorate with a degree of respect and tell us before hand, we simply don’t know what we’re getting if someone ticks “NZ First” on the Party Ballot. It would be like voters handing over our Party Ballots to Peters and allowing him to vote on our behalf.
At least with every other party we know what we’re getting.
Winston, can’t stand the man, but one thing I support him on that the greeds don’t is the banning of 1080 …. bastards
Go Winnie! — but we need to use 1080 if we want to keep our birds
isnt 1080 making the kea extinct?…not to mention the other birds
Citation, Red Buzzard? Repeating an old canard still doesn’t make it any truer.
They used 1080 around the hills where we live and we now have tui, morepork, and kereru back again. Do you think that’s a coincidence? Or have you closed your mind to that?
The same thing happened at the last election when the fake pre – election polls showed The Greens at 15%.
This went straight to their heads so they then thought it would be a good idea to should start thumping the negotiating table early by critiquing Labour’s economic policies via mainstream media.
How did they think that would be perceived by your average Kiwi voter?
We all know how that ended up!
They go on about wanting to be truly ‘progressive’, not realising that your average Kiwi voter wouldn’t have a clue what the word ‘progressive’ means when talking politics.
They need to replace the progressive word with another ‘p’ word….practical.
They should be saying , “we need to be a truly practical party, other wise we will always be impotent and in opposition .”
It’s a pity because it’s overshadowed their new water policy announcement which is a good one and dear oh dear very much along the lines of NZ.First’s…..I wonder if it’s rascist and xenophobic to stop the Chinese taking our pristine artisian water for free and making a fortune out of it ??
+100…
…actually NZF policy is quite Green!
http://www.nzfirst.org.nz/environment_and_conservation
http://www.nzfirst.org.nz/policies
All of which is meaningless if Winston Peters decides to coalesce with National post-23 Sept. A Nat-NZF coalition will simply mean more dairying, more polluted waterways, more greenhouse gas emissions, the list goes on.
Whilst NZ First supporters like you, RB, are to be commended for engaging in the political system, the reality is that no-one – not even you, RB – knows what Peters will do. That is intolerable on so many levels.
fear-mongering?…the Greens are desperate for power, one wonders if they can work together with other parties …actually I think there is a greater danger of the Greens getting together with Nactional, especially if NZF gets more votes than them and joins with Labour
…the Greens have quite a few things in common with Nactional and they have not ruled out going with Nactional in the past…
eg remember: John Keys ‘Red Peak’ flag change ( James Shaw of the the Greens supported this); remember Nactional’s budget ( the Greens came out and supported this. Labour and NZF did not) ; remember the attacks on Labour over the housing crisis in Auckland with foreigners buying up NZ housing and making the prices too high for New Zealanders ( the Greens joined with Nactional and accused Labour of racism); marijuana/cannabis reform ( conservative stance closer to Nactional than NZF or TOP) …
https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/greens-step-to-the-right
http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/green_party/
Ok, RB, you’re a Winston Peters desciple. Got it.
The Greens have shot themselves in the foot and stumbled. To come out of the gates on the “racism” issue is weak and if that is the best they can do then I hope they are relegated to the likes of United Future or Act. I still don’t get why people are upset with Winston because he won’t pick a coalition partner. If he does go with National, National will be weakened and Winston won’t sit back and let party policies like the TPPA pass. There is an old saying, ” Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer.” I prefer Winston than United Future, Maori, or Act. Think about it. I despise National but Labour looks too weak and the Greens are in la la land and NZ first is gaining because NZ First policies favour New Zealand.
The majority of the sheeple go for wiifm, consequently they follow the biggest bribes for them. Thus the Greens crap out because they are not into bribes like Nat and Labour are.
this may be a good election to lose…hard as that may seem.
From Ms Martin;
I would point out that NZ First launched the first salvo against progressive politics by threatening to hold a referendum on the so-called “anti-smacking” law.
Any notion that NZ First was a progressive party was “washed away” at that point.
both my 20+ something children …both former Green voters are voting elsewhere on last reports…NZF and TOP
That’s a very good point Frank.
But what both the Greens and N.Z First should be doing is attacking National , not each other……National has been so useless and dumb there is so much ammunition it’s hard to know where to begin.
No party should be giving National a cruisey ride by airing their own petty differences in public..if they must , that should be done strictly behind closed doors.
No point in a left wing government with NZ First at the table. I hope National form a government with Winnie so the left finally realise that conservative nationalism is not a leftist position.
But what’s the point really?…Winnie has gone with National once, but some on the left have already forgotten this. The left in NZ have no faith in their own beliefs. Why do leftists capitulate to conservative nationalism? My god, have some self-respect and stand up for your beliefs
Fatty;
“No point in a left wing government with NZ First at the table.”
I am sorry, but could not let your comment pass without a reply as it seems
quite misleading.
Surely you are aware of what NZF achieved under the Clarke Labour led Gvt. that you omit.
1. Winston was noted to be a successful Foreign Minister.
2. Instrumental in ending Telecom’s disgraceful 15yr+ price extortion monopoly. (20?)
3. Involved in the buyback of a run down and asset stripped NZ Rail to restore.
4. Involved in doing same and saving Wellington Airport.
5. Fought ‘tooth&nail’ for the Gold Card that other countries already had, even
though with less benefits than those same countries deemed fit for purpose.
Without doing any research, these certainly have not been forgotten.
Besides, this ‘left/right thing’ does not really apply today.
A reply to Frank that seemed ‘triggered’ by the same word Nationalism.
“’Left and Right’ today means the same thing.
It is just a Divide and Rule strategy of old.
The real struggle is between Globalism v Nationalism.”
“First and foremost;
Simplistically, Nationalism is the desire of a nation to self-determination.”
Bottom of comments here;
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/06/12/what-does-the-corbyn-result-in-the-uk-mean-for-new-zealand/
And while we are here already:
For Tracy Martin to argue for the removal of one sentence, in one small section
of the act, it generated a ‘hit-piece’ that was truly astounding.
Hysteria Revisited:
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/06/18/qa-review-disgusting-nz-first-want-legal-right-to-bash-children/
Cheers.
I don’t think Helen Clark’s term was anything to aspire to. That just cemented neoliberalism/third way.
I agree that mainstream politics is obsessed with globalism vs nationalism. On that argument I’m with the globalists because nationalism is toxic and not leftist. We need global socialism. Not nationalism. Competitive nation states is a horrible idea. I’m a communist, not a capitalist.
I disagree with your point the “Left and Right today means the same thing. It is just a Divide and Rule strategy of old.”
There’s a massive difference between socialism (left) and free market capitalism (right). They’re not the same thing at all
[Iain, there has been a request from TDB Admin not to reference ‘Infowars’ any more. The policy of this blogsite is that for various reasons we will not reference nor promote the material presented by those people.
In case you missed it, the policy was announced here:- https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/07/07/notice-to-all-posters/
I will delete any comments referencing ‘Infowars’, just as we delete ISIS propaganda and other questionable material. Please do not reference ‘Infowars’ or any other incarnation of that outfit. Thank you for your co-operation. – Scarletmod]
Fatty;
Sorry, left this bit out.
If you read you will find that they are both controlled by the same
peoples at the top levels. eg; Rothschild and Rockerfella’s that we
can see. (Banking families) These are the ones who usually take
the rap when everything turns to shit.
I can tell with this that you have not read the Fabian stuff.
There is more but I will leave it at that. One step at a time.
Cheers.
Evidence for that, Iain? That’s quite an assertion to make and you haven’t provided much evidence.
It’s unclear how bloated capitalists like Rothschild, Rockerfellers, Koch brothers, and yes – Donald Trump – could possibly benefit from socialism. In case you missed it, the Cold War was predicated on Capital vs Socialism. I don’t even understand why we’re debating this, unless you have an alternative ideology that you haven’t shared with us? Does NZ First have anything to do with it?
+1
Frank;
“Evidence for that, Iain? That’s quite an assertion to make and you haven’t provided much evidence.”
The evidence is contained in the link provided in answer to Fatty.
Rockerfeller was a member of the Fabian Society.
It’s all there,Frank.
That was my whole point in posting that info in the first place, to show that top Elites really do control both sides of the Established spectrum.
I am surprised you did not read the Fabian links when we had the discussion on Nationalism at the time.
(or before that)
You should know by now I am not one to put up frivolous links to support what I am saying.
“Does NZ First have anything to do with it?” And there you go again.
Absolutely nothing.!
Surely this is repetition that Scarletmod talks about? And it is also reflected in the “Notice” from Scarletmod above that seems most concerning.
(Confirms my opinion the Status Quo does fear NZF)
“While The Daily Blog welcomes viewpoints from a wide variety of sources, we have noticed lately an increasing amount of bad behaviour from some participants posting intemperate comments on this Forum. A number of them appear to be NZ First supporters.”???
Surely this is subjective reasoning instead of objective?
I had not seen this Notice but it answers a few questions about denial of posts that I will cover in reply. Outright censorship/muzzling?
Cheers.
Fatty;
I take it then, that you did not read my links on the Fabian Society and the end goals of Fabianism?
It does take some investment in time.
After being a big fan of Helen initially and saw a bit of hope that she would create significant change to what had gone before,
I agree, just mirrored Blair’s ‘third way”, which after reading the ‘template’ came as no surprise.
A groomed career politician from the start,if ever there was one,to inevitably to end up in the UN, where she failed.
She threw her last election for Key is my firm belief.
To pass the baton.
Key was sent here to do the exact same things he did.
He had work to do and sabotage of our media and journalism was the very first thing to happen,in very quick time.
The rest is history.
As soon as the arrival of Trump,he was off.
Done most of his work.
Now we have Jacinda Adern on the horizon,very much in the same mould as Helen. I am sure she thinks that. (Shudder)
She will do exactly the same as Helen.
It is all written out for her already.
Has she ever done a days real work in her life?
Same Uni to politics?
But she has revealed herself already with siding with the ABC’s in the Cunliffe Affair. (Helen kept a low profile with Rodgernomics.)
Never forgive,never forget.
It’s easy once you have the bigger picture.
Funny how you think someone is good looking when you admire and respect them. Now I think she is ugly, always trying to hide her buck teeth.
Anyway I digress and lament. It’s a shame you did not follow the discussion with Frank and study the Philosophy link with the various degree’s of the isms and the young educated
man on Globalism v Nationalism.
Good luck with your ideology on Globalism,
I don’t know how old you are or if you have a family or not but all I can say is if this set of Globalist/Oligarchs win out,the future for any grandchildren will be a dire one indeed.
Search “Fall of the Republic” to catch up in a hurry.
Like two soldiers on opposing sides of the battlefield that
can still celebrate xmas day together.
Best of luck.
Cheers.
I think the Greens are looking at the polling and are afraid New Zealand First are eating their lunch simply by hitting the hot button issues.
The Greens aspire to be a total party, while Winston knows his place is as a “God of the Gaps.”
Should the Greens carve out the environment ans sustainability, (and stick with sympathy and agreement towards Labour on the more social matters: Jobs, Poverty Education and Health)?
This would be a bitter pill to swallow: accepting that they will never become the number one party of the Left, but a more coherent way to focus their message.
They may have erred under Russel Norman in aspiring to replace Labour on the Left and ended up as a Machiavellian Me-Too-Except-More-And-Better party. So now they are getting squeezed between a populist in the middle and a bland All-Things-Nice Leftish Party on the other side. Meanwhile, the Greens don’t seem to want to be an Extreme Left Party like Mana – that’s where they got lost before, so there is an identity crisis going on.
It is possible that a populist Centre party (with links to the Provinces and the country), a genuinely Left Party, and a totally focused Environmental party would make an excellent fit. But it can’t happen if the Greens continue to harbour secret ambitions of conquest.
@Nick Morris. Very good analysis.
I wrote here a few weeks ago that Winston was likely to make having the Greens outside the cabinet as a condition of going into Government with Labour. Turei has just guaranteed that outcome.
Welcome to another three years of not being in Government, Greens.
On the up side, at least a Labour/NZF coalition will be consistent on policy. 90% of current NZF policy is aligned with Labour policy*. The other 10% can be negotiated.
*I’ve actually taken the time to read NZF’s policy, but I do realise it’s easily over-ruled by whatever Winston wants at any given time.
As much as I don’t want to give the natz amo @ 10cents per lt your single hamburger would cost $90.00
I’m not sure we are going to get a truly progressive government until large numbers of those who came of age in the early 1960s start dying off.
not ‘AGEISM’ surely?
….and where are the elderly Greens?
….jumped off a cliff?
…or were they pushed?
Oh, come on. National have plenty of young supporters. The Boomers pass their beliefs on to their kids, you know, just like anybody else. Time isn’t going to change things – Only a change in thought, or perhaps a proper election turnout, will do that.
Esoteric Pineapples;
Yes. The ones who were educated properly and did not have to suffer the
amount of toxins in our food supply and environment etc at such a young age.
You know – the ones that still eat, grow and cook whole foods.
But you could still be waiting though.
We might be around to see the ‘running out of town’ of the Current Controllers.
http://leozagami.com/ (Read his bio.)
Cheers.
…. and the 1.0 Million Couch Surfers actually get off theirs boards and vote ?
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