Not much is the answer.
Aside from the name New Zealand’s Labour Party bears no resemblance to Jeremy Corbyn’s UK Labour Party.
New Zealand’s Labour Party is a neo-liberal, free market party with policies to match. If NZ Labour wins in September then income inequality and wealth inequality will continue to increase while the rest of us struggle to add that extra lining to the pockets of the idle rich.
Corbyn’s Labour Party has made a definitive break from neoliberalism with the policies they took to the UK electorate.
And the electorate responded positively. No, UK Labour didn’t win but they have shaken UK politics in a way not seen since the 1980s. They are on the rise with a message of radical change – things can be different and better – why should working people accept second best when the rich are creaming it?
UK Labour has shaken off the shackles of Tony Bair but NZ Labour remains tied to the legacy of Roger Douglas.
There are plenty of lessons for NZ Labour from the UK election but no sign whatever they will be learnt. A vision for a better, fairer New Zealand would be the starting point. NZ Labour will use that rhetoric during the campaign but no policy to give it real meaning.
It’s interesting to look back at those in NZ Labour who derided UK Labour when Corbyn won the leadership of the party. There were plenty like Stuart Nash and Josi Pagani who poured scorn and declared Corbyn unelectable.
UK Labour has begun the process of weeding out the right wing Blairites. NZ Labour will have an even bigger weeding job here if it takes a similar path to Corbyn – beginning with the majority of current NZ Labour MPs.
* So right you are , John. And, … the same went for the Murdoch press machine, the biased pollsters and the Blairites in the UK Labour party,… and one by one,.. they got knocked down like skittles.
………………………………………….
** And this is something I and others have said many times over. I used the word ‘ purge’ – perhaps a little too emotive a term , – but a purge is what is needed nonetheless.
These,… neo liberals,… like worms in a rotting piece of woodwork , have managed to work their way into positions of influence in the Labour party caucus. From there, they wield unearned influence in saying who will and who will not succeed as either Prime Minister of Leader of the Opposition.
We only have to look at the ABC’s and their treacherous treatment of David Cunliffe to see an example of their handiwork.
They wield far too much influence in the continuance of neo liberal economic and social policy. They are there solely to perpetuate its existence.
So indeed a purge is what is needed. And here is the one ray of light in this dark scenario. There will be NO EXCUSES for neo liberal NZ Labour when Corbyn finally wins.
Corbyn will obliterate all excuses as to why we should have to support any longer this self serving Mont Pelerin Society neo liberal ideology. We have been fed the ‘ TINA’ dogma for well over 33 years now. Three decades of self serving lies.
I propose a new acronym.
One descriptive to the shockwave that will eventually reach all around the western world as more and more people see the success of Corbyns Labour party in manacling neo liberalism.
And I propose that acronym to be this :
TANE.
‘THERE ARE NO EXCUSES ‘ .
100% Wilk Katipo,
Spot on as we see NZ First as the real savior here as they are clearly fer left of labour now.
NZ First clearly show this magi principal to respond to citizens regional issues, whereas the rest are very wooden and refuse to show that “Kinder, caring, engaging and open governance as Helen Clark did use as her message to win the 1999 election with a landslide.
NZ First a left party?
Don’t make me fucking laugh dude. They are as far to the right as National. Throwing a few meaningless crumbs around does not a left winger make.
Winston started in the National Party and his heart is still for right wing policies.
If you disagree, how does Winston compare to Karl Marx?
Now he is a leftie…
Fully agree, JS. NZ first is as “left” as my right arm. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
Can you identify a single member of the New Zealand labour party that would not have to be weeded out? Who would that be?
D J S
I’m loath to taint you with my lunacies and ranting ramblings but you’re dead on the money @ John Minto.
The NZ Labour party’s still got roger the dodger’s stink all over it. If I were a dog I’d roll on it.
And don’t be forgetting, mind…!
Just getting rid of the fuckers in some kind of blood rushing to the voters heads thing isn’t enough. It certainly isn’t enough for me. I want vengiance. I want our stuff and things back too. I want a genuine and independant inquiry and I want to see imprisonments and asset stripping. I want to see those bastards hunted down and stripped bare in public. I want to see all those people who’ve had loved others suicide, I want to see all those single parents watching on as they ponder their poverty and desperation there watching, I want all those pompous, arrogant, smug, right wing voting pricks to be shamed and humiliated as they would have the man, woman or kid living in the streets.
That’s what I want. Not much to ask is it?
Thirty fucking years, those bastards have ruled the roost.
I laughed when I read this and thought back to when one of our dogs rolled in a dead bird – they seemed to reek the most – ugh !!!
Then I read further down ( second paragraph ) and although humorous, … realised this is EXACTLY what I would like to see. Its not enough to simply let them off scot free by voting them out. That leaves justice unserved. Justice unserved for 33 years of lies , theft , subversion of our democracy and ultimately , because of that – treason.
I think of the lying deceit of John Key and I believe the only reason they decided to grant that ‘ Sir ‘ title is because if in future the United Nations does require a ‘ Please Explain’ over Operation Burnham … his supporters ( whom Key worked over time to protect their interests ) reasoned that a ‘ knight of the Realm’ so to speak would publicly be that much harder to go after. As such it is an arse covering measure for the pony tail puller.
Mr ‘ Piss in the Shower’ is now a ‘ knight’.
A ‘ Sir’ .
But never in our eyes. Ever.
But it doesnt stop with Key . Oh no ,.. there is a long long list of thieves going all the way back to the likes of people such as roger Douglas, ruth Richardson jenny Shipley and jim Bolger … geoffrey Palmer , doug Meyers ( deceased) ron Trotter ( deceased ) …. it is a big long list of plunderers and thieves to catch in the net.
And yet most of them are still alive to be hauled before our courts.
They consigned so many New Zealanders to decades of poverty and bearing the brunt of their self serving neo liberal greed, – how fitting then they should see out the last of their remaining twilight years staring at a prison cell door.
Bring it on.
It is a sobering thought that as a politician you can deliberately , knowingly sell the nation out to foreign interests, to the ruin of thousands of honest toiling people, and be guilty of no identifiable crime. When it in all practical reasoning a gigantic crime.
D J S
Hi WK … do I sniff the subtle air of revolt from you and COUNTRYBOY? If I do, then you can definitely add me to the equation. I might be 71, but by Christ I still have plenty of fight in me to take the treasonous pricks to the cleaners, for what they have done to my country! I want to see some accountability for what was done to some very good friends of ours during the early 1990s, stripped of their employment, standard of living and dignity, to have to go literally begging for work since, with their wages decreasing with each subsequent job, virtually living from hand to mouth!
Some justification is definitely required to call these terrorists within to account, for their 30 plus years of treason against the ordinary working class folk of NZ!
A “Truth and Justice Commission on Neo-Liberalism”?
Attractive idea – but will never happen and if we are honest it sets a bad precedent where the champions of progressive ideas could be retrospectively criminalised by future right-wing governments.
Hi ab, I don’t think neo liberalism is restricted to the right wing.
It will take another loss this year before Labour actually gets the message and even then i have my doubts.
If Labour can’t return to the values it was formed for in the first place then pressure will be applied to stand alternative candidates to Labour as Democratic Socialists and split the left vote and allow the National party to continue to dominate which will be a disaster.
Real pressure will come to bear following the general election loss in a few months time.
The Labour party must change.
Somehow we need to get this message across to the NZ Labour Party!
From Jacobin online magazine.
Why Corbyn Won
• BHASKAR SUNKARA
“The Labour left remembered that you don’t win by tacking to an imaginary centre — you win by letting people know you feel their anger and giving them a constructive end to channel it towards. “We demand the full fruits of our labour,” the party’s election video said it all.”
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-election-results-labour-theresa-may-left
You assume they don’t already know.
Oh, they know alright, they already know!
They’re cowering in their boots, hoping this will all just go away.
But it won’t.
The NZ Labour Party needs a massive clean out.
@Martyn, this blog needs to be putting the boot into NZ Labour, hard!
Somehow, we need to make the NZ Labour Party heed the lessons of the UK election:
From The Jacobin online magazine:
Why Corbyn Won
• BHASKAR SUNKARA
“The Labour left remembered that you don’t win by tacking to an imaginary center — you win by letting people know you feel their anger and giving them a constructive end to channel it towards. “We demand the full fruits of our labour,” the party’s election video said it all.”
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-election-results-labour-theresa-may-left
Tony,
I applaud your decision to drop the description.
Well done.
I agree with all the comments here about this fine blog of John, but the fact remains that ,for all their faults, the Labour option trounces three more years of the Natz.
It is tiresome to see so many comments rubbishing Labour. After all it is the only effective opposition to National.
The Greens are unclear and full of surprises.
New Zealand First is unreadable (except for it’s excellent total restriction of immigration).
Labour only has to woo the Middle Class, Students, would be Home Owners, massively curtail Landlord earnings, Build Infrastructure, support Teachers and Workers and bring the Environment back to a pristine standard.
and sell out on capital gains tax, yes that is exactly what labour did, oh dear peoople didn’t like that policy so we scrapped it. Pathetic!
Michal – I’m not sure but you do realise there is already a CAPITAL GAINS tax in NZ and also a SPECULATION TAX???
Maybe people need to understand what is actually tax law before they start their whining about Labour to support National for another 3 cold years…
A CGT won’t help because we know that a vast number of New Zealanders are apathetic to it. The evidence…National are still in power, aren’t they. And whilst Labour continue to be crucified by all in sundry, National carry on their corrupt practices. At least that’s one label not directed at Labour.
Spot on, John.
The NZ Labour party stands for control of NZ by international money-lenders and corporations, looting and polluting the environment, transfer of wealth from those that have little to those that have far too much, and completely ignoring everything that is about to demolish current living arrangements and needed to be planned for long ago……and a few more ‘breadcrumbs’ falling off the ‘elites table’ than National might deliver.
The same words always come to mind when I think of ‘Labour’: deceit and betrayal.
Yes John, you are dead right there.
And you only have to read through the replies to your post to see why it is going to take at least another three election losses before Labour comes back to its rightful place IF AT ALL…
Well said, John. But I fear I do not have enough years left to enjoy an organic (weeding out) Labour Party transformation. Somehow, the idea of a schism has appeal, but that would require an equally grueling transformation of the Greens who have lost their way with weak leadership and the sniff of the husky in the second row of the pack.
It means nothing because Boris will be the next P.M. and he is popular and Corbyn will do a bunk.
Dave. Dave. Dave. Still 6 months behind the bell curve.
I cannot see Labour doing the same thing here, time will tell. Labour admitted they had not costed their new immigration properly yet which made them look a bit silly I thought.
Irrelevant. There is no alternative so voters have to come to us.
Dave,
Has this government fully costed its immigration policy? Trifle silly IMO.
Defending a silly opposition is quite frankly silly. Labour are making fools of them selves every time they open their mouth even though there is scope for them to fill some large gaps in what the government are doing. It gives me little confidence i them and I suggest that Labour will still be in opposition after the election.
This knee-jerk reaction from John is frustrating, and its even more frustrating to see every other comment here echo him. How many times do I have to say it? Policy, policy, policy! John didn’t refer to a single piece of current Labour policy to support his claims that Labour are still “a neo-liberal, free market party with policies to match” and neither have the rest of you. How is 3 years of free education for every kiwi “neoliberal”, John? How is restoring a universal family benefit of $60 a week for parents of children under 3 “neo-liberal”, or 26 weeks of paid parental leave? How many times do I have to say it? Policy, policy, policy!
Look, I’m no fan of Labour, and even the Greens have tacked further to the mythical “centre” than I’m comfortable with. Yes, the prospects for a Little Labour aren’t yet very inspiring (yet), but they’re not worse than the prospects of another 3 years of NatACT government.
The realpolitik of the impending election is a choice between:
a) voting for 3 more years of the NatACTS killing the remains of the welfare state by a thousand cuts and fiddling while the climate burns
b) voting for Labour or the Greens, despite their timid ‘steady as she goes’ PR aimed at pulling votes of National.
c) voting for NZ First and hoping that don’t use their seats to support the NatACTS
d) voting for TOP and hoping they get over 5% and don’t use their seats to support the NatACTS
e) not voting while we wait for our own version of the Corbynite saviour, or The Revolution (TM) and thus contributing to a)
Sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good.
“d) voting for TOP and hoping they get over 5% and don’t use their seats to support the NatACTS” seems the best option to me. If you examine the detail of their policies and just half of them become Government policy, we could be on the road to recovery and that will give Labour MPs time to disband into their neo-liberal and socialist corners. To vote Labour again, I would need to see a complete cleanout of the Roger Douglas descendants and that’s still at least half of Labour MPs.
Fair enough. I’m certainly finding myself more impressed with TOP than I expected. Their focus on policy over scandal and gossip is a model for what the rest of the opposition parties need to do if they want to unseat the NatACTs this year.
But my point is that even in their best case scenario, TOP are not going to be leading the next government, and it would take an unprecedented electoral upset for the Greens or NZ First to be leading it. I don’t like it any better than John M or anyone else who still feels burnt by Rogernomics (or the dark side of Clarkism for that matter), but for better or for worse, a Labour-led government for 2017-2020 is the only realistic alternative we have to a National-led one.
That being the case, hand-waving attack pieces like this one by John M are a waste of attention span. At best they can only score an own goal, by discouraging left-leaning voters from turning out to vote at all, and thus increasing National’s share of the votes that are cast. We need to focus our critiques of NZ Labour on specific points of policy, and explain what policy we’d have them adopt.
Great advice if you want to see National get in again. Even if TOP gets 5% which is pie in the sky stuff anyway, Gareth Morgan has said apparently his preferred partner is National…..
Remember National have even corrupted the Maori party to support their destruction on the poor and environment – yep 5% of Maori are happy with the cash, not sure about the other 95% …
Gareth is already a neoliberal so he’ll be putty in their hands.
Gareth’s policies look like they’ve been written by an economist – oh wait, they have. LOL. I doubt many in the electorate will vote for taxing the family home and forcing the elderly into reverse mortgaged, thus eliminating any legacy they wanted for their children and grandchildren. Might be wrong. I’m guessing the banks will love that policy.
Labour has it’s faults, but it would never do what National has done….
National are like some deranged organisation is at the helm with bizarre policy, homeless in expensive hotels, state houses being sold off or empty and then government paying more money to build less houses to private developers, buying fake carbon credits while promoting 100% pure NZ, building dams in areas that are prone to drought and making it worse by catching the water to get more water intensive business at the drought prone spot, giving water away for free to foreign interests, having zero tax havens that you don’t have to declare who owns the money… while using NZ respectability to mask it. Giving casino’s state money, even giving them TVNZ space to put a conference in, that get’s more gamblers here, sending millions on sheep to Saudi businessmen to die in a desert in the hope they might impress someone somewhere to give them a trade deal. Perservering with the zombie TPPA when even the US has pulled out, mass surveillance, having our SAS kill civilians in Afghanistan but pretending it didn’t happen….
It is bad for New Zealand, that both the Standard and the Daily Blog are so destructive of Labour.
Most of the persons who comment on these two blogs are obviously supporters of Bill English and his Deputy Paula Bennett. For National can do no wrong.
I so wish they would at least encourage National to look after everybody and not just the very wealthy.
Excuse me?
Isn’t the ‘idea’ to get rid of the current ‘nasty party’ NATZ by whatever means – as similar to the conservative ‘nasty party’ in the UK – it’s all about them and the money – with NO CARE or CONCERN for the actual people’s of the country they govern.
If NZ having the highest suicide rate of late teens – IN THE WORLD
( let’s ask the question, WHY…? ) – doesn’t give enough reason to oust the NatZ – then I despair.
John;
Good article.
“It’s interesting to look back at those in NZ Labour who derided UK Labour when Corbyn won the leadership of the party. There were plenty like Stuart Nash and Josi Pagani who poured scorn and declared Corbyn unelectable.”
“UK Labour has begun the process of weeding out the right wing Blairites. NZ Labour will have an even bigger weeding job here if it takes a similar path to Corbyn – beginning with the majority of current NZ Labour Mps.”
It will not happen,of course. As I have said before, this is because all 3 of the
major parties are really controlled by the same puppet masters at the top.
Having come from a working/middle class family we all voted Labour,and their
parents before that. Our parents had Savage and Hollyoake.
In my time, Big Norm was our man. (sadly silenced.)
It was a time of plenty, second highest standard in the world, with plenty of
food, clothing and housing available to all.
Proper Milk delivered to all primary schools.
My father only worked at General Motors for 35-40yrs(retired at 60) and
mum was the homemaker with 4 children. Most mothers were.
Our standard of education (for me late 50’s-60’s) was probably the peak of our system.
But what happened in the 80’s?
After another 25yrs or so, I finally obtained a desktop computer and finally
found out. I was shocked to the core.!
If you understand what I have laid out below, it explains the actions of
Rodger Douglas, Mike Moore, Helen Clarke (with her Blairite ‘third way’)
and why the Labour Caucus treated Cunliffe so dreadfully. (Cost his marriage?)
The ABC’s led by Goff. Jacinda Adern was one, now Deputy PM. (Shudder.)
Most comments on this post talk about ‘how Labour can do better’.
In my opinion it is a waste of time. None of the 3 parties (N<L<G) will
bring about a better NZ. The Puppet Masters won't let them. It's not in their plan.
In the UK about 50% of Labour MP's are Fabian Society members.
All Labour PM's in UK and Australia were Fabian Society members.
NZ and Canada, I don't know but if is not contained below google it.
I remember seeing Clarkes father may have been but you will find
Marx, Lenin, Obama and Clinton,Bob Hawke and other names we all recognize.
Blair and Brown for a start.
The Fabian Society used to have a motto “Wolf in Sheeps Clothing.”
They set up the Labour Party and the Union Movement and their goal is
“ by increment and stealth” set a path to One World Government,
having played their part in setting up the League of Nations (Failed) now
the UN, IMF, World Bank, WTO,etc.
https://fabiansociety.wordpress.com/
"The Fabian Society exposed: A wolf in sheeps clothing.” In 6min.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlQ0fzABh5Y
For those with a bit more time.
http://www.wakeupkiwi.com/The-Conspiracy-to-Rule-the-World-2.shtml
Helen Clarke left us with Working for Families- in effect a subsidy for employers.
Accommodation Supplement – a subsidy for landlords. Now the State has you
plugged into a benefit for survival and can use it to manipulate us all.
Case in point is Australia where if you don't vaccinate your child they will
cancel your child supplement. Cost to one family $11,000 per annum.
So, this new Collectivism /Green behavior that is being sold is really
virtually Communism by stealth.
And that means Corporate Fascism at the top.
Never again will I be sucked in by so called Social Democracy when
true Libertarianism is the only way.
'Left and Right' today means the same thing.
It is just a Divide and Rule strategy of old.
The real struggle is between Globalism v Nationalism.
Cheers.
Like hell it is. Nationalism is a dead-end road. Look at European history in the 1920s and 30s to see where nationalism (aka fascism) led Germany, Italy, and their ally, Japan in the east. Ditto for your bizarre version of “libertarianism”, the sibling to neo-liberalism.
Nationalism relies on racism, xenophobia, self-interest, and any other bigotry that can thrust a demagogue into power. So, no thanks, Iain, you can keep your neo-fascist/nationalist views to yourself.
Frank;
You seem to have missed the main point of my post which was on the subject
of Fabianism.
However, lets attempt to analyze the isms that you have mentioned.
As you probably know already, these terms can be emotive, mean
different things to different people and their meanings can change from
different periods of time.
First of all I went to Wiki for the definition of Fascism.
“What constitutes a definition of fascism and fascist governments is a highly disputed subject that has proven complicated and contentious. Historians, political scientists, and other scholars have engaged in long and furious debates concerning the exact nature of fascism and its core tenets.
A significant number of scholars agree that a “fascist regime” is foremost an authoritarian form of government, although not all authoritarian regimes are fascist.”
Hence my term Corporate Fascism. (Is this what we have today over our Gvt’s? )
Unfortunately today, it always seems to take us to images of Hitler or Mussolini.
The same can be said of the other isms, with different types or versions, and meanings can change over time.
I will leave my source below but let me quote in simple terms what I
meant with what I have written.
First and foremost;
Simplistically, Nationalism is the desire of a nation to self-determination.
Libertarianism includes a broad spectrum of political philosophies, each sharing the common overall priority of minimal government combined with optimum possible individual liberty. Its goals prioritize freedom: freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom to bear arms, freedom of and from religion, freedom of the Press, freedom of ownership and economic freedom. It promotes personal responsibility and private charity, as opposed to the provision of welfare services by the state, and it rejects the compulsions of Socialism and Communism.
Where as todays liberalism usually means more Government involvement.
http://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_political.html
https://www.theadvocates.org/libertarianism-101/definitions-of-libertarianism/
My understanding of Globalism, hidden behind all the political and MSM bullshit is;
Consolidation of power,controlled by a few select families, at the expense of Nation States.
And these people do not have our good in mind.
With all that above, I leave you with this. From an obviously educated man.
He describes Globalism as International Communism.
“My Awakening: Globalism vs Nationalism”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAH8on_kS1s
RELATED and extremely pertinent;
http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2016/12/12/globalism-vs-nationalism-the-new-civil-war/
Cheers.
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