It’s not yours – give it back. You have stolen it from the poorest New Zealanders – those struggling below the poverty line in impossible circumstances.
$118 million taken in dividends from Housing New Zealand is money filched from families living lives of quite desperation in cold, damp, mouldy homes which you refuse to upgrade. You have throttled Housing New Zealand, forcing it to hand over hundreds of millions and refusing to allow it to service the homes and families who so desperately need it.
Last year two of your tenants died from conditions exacerbated by the shocking living conditions they were forced to endure in unmaintained state houses – their family’s appeals for better housing ignored. Why did 37-year-old Soesa Tovo and two-year-old Emma-Lita Bourne deserve death in a state house? Homes these families didn’t have a dog’s show of heating.
This happened on your watch as Minister of State Housing Bill English and you didn’t resign – in fact you did nothing. You were unmoved. You callous bastard.
Now you demand $118 million in dividends from HNZ – money taken from families paying to live in the hovels you refuse to upgrade. You have all the moral fibre of a slum landlord.
You are happy to encourage the public to think of Housing New Zealand tenants as bludgers – to encourage the rest of us to look down on them as the underserving poor.
But who was it Bill English who rorted the system to claim more than $900 per week in a living allowance in Wellington a few years back? A sum larger than the entire income of any family in a state house. So who is the real bludger on the public purse Bill English?
This week when you defended your demand for $118 million from the pockets of the poorest you said:
“If any tenant lets Housing New Zealand know about any what they call urgent maintenance needs, and they’ve got 125,000 of those notifications in the last year or two, then Housing New Zealand has the cash to act on those.”
Tell that to Housing New Zealand tenants who have to put up with appalling maintenance done on the cheap by HNZ contractors. Your comments are public relations pap – deliberate delusion.
And why is it that Housing New Zealand managers are each responsible for three times more houses than a similar role in the private sector?
Squeezing the life from Housing New Zealand and its tenants is a favourite pastime for callous Tory politicians like you Bill English.
State housing is desperately needed to support the victims of your government’s economic policies. So give up your plans to sell state houses Bill English and start to respect HNZ tenants and their homes.
And give the $118 million? Give it back Bill English.
Exactly @ John Minto. What a fucking arsehole . In fact ? They’re all fucking arseholes, the lot of them. Pudgy bennett, jonky, etc.
Give it back ? Absolutely ! And while we’re at it we should demand what were once our resources and amenities returned to us. I don’t k now about the rest of you but I’ve had enough of fucking around, sitting on fences . I want ACTION !
Yes! Lets print some oversized “I am Kate” name badges and storm a warm airconditioned office. That’ll show the bugger.
Actually, this government has spent more in maintenance and provision of state housing than at any other time in history. These facts are very easy to find.
Totally untrue. In fact, quite the opposite has occurred with National extracting almost two and a half times more dividends from Housing NZ than the previous Labour government;
Dividends to National: Total: $664 million (over seven years)
Dividends to Labour: Total: $281 million (over 8 years – no figures found for ’00-’01 period)
More data is available from Housing NZ annual reports, which you can access from my blogpost here: https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/09/13/nationals-blatant-lies-on-housing-nz-dividends-the-truth-uncovered/
In fact, you’ll find that Housing NZ has admitted it is unable to fund full maintenance for it’s properties.
From Housing NZ in their 2013/14 Annual Report;
“To mitigate this overspend, we deliberately reduced the planned maintenance programme , which decreased the percentage of maintenance spend on planned activity.”
So your claim has no basis in fact.
Sorry for my ignorance, is dividends profit?
Yes dividends are a name for the type of returns the government extracts from Housing New Zealand. Basically they pay benefits out to people for the to pay the rent which then goes back in to the system. And rather than use the money to keep the houses maintained the money goes to other government projects like the flag change project. John key doesnt care about the poor. He thinks they should be a strong as him-he hates the weak and poor. This is the sign of a psychopath!
Well, Mr Key recons his mother kept their state house clean and ventilated. Clearly very much superior to anyone else. In a way blaming the ones in state houses for the mold maybe?
Well ventilated….hm
I bet her actual words were “I couldn’t hear the TV for the wind whistling through my son’s ears!”
Well, if you hold shares, you receive a dividend from the company’s profits based on how many shares you have. In this case, the dividend is a return paid to the government from Housing NZ out of the accumulated rentals that they hold. You could argue that the government should not extract any dividend from its social housing provider, and instead plough all its returns back into improving the housing stock. This government has well and truly rorted the system. The are a disgrace on so many levels, I have lost count.
“You could argue that the government should not extract any dividend from its social housing provider, and instead plough all its returns back into improving the housing stock.”
Well yes, or you could argue that the Govt could spend $700m per annum on subsidising low income earners rental…oh wait, they already do!
Yes they do, and so they should. Its called looking after your citizens. I can’t understand why you would have a problem with that. Are the concepts of empathy and fairness that foreign to you?
Did you forget to mention the amount the government gives to private landlords? While needed due to low incomes paid to working people all it does is allow private landlords to buy property which the tax payer helps pay the rent on so increasing property prices & keeping families from affording their own home.
Wether profit or dividend its still theft!
That’s a lot of work without rebutting the point Frank.
Not only did he rebut your point,Iceberg, but he’s shown you up to be another deceptive Tory.
Enjoy the butt-boot you just got.
Iceberg, are you serious? He rebutted you fully. In turn, you haven’t presented any facts or figures or evidence. You and your mate Born in a barn are Tory trolls and not much more.
Frank you are confusing different issues here, and in so doing you have not addressed the questioner.
1. A higher dividend from HNZ does not, in and of itself, imply a lower maintenance spend. It may be the case, but it is not axiomatic. 2. An inability to fully fund maintenance requirements in one hit is also not necessarily a bad thing. It depends on what the maintenance is and how it is prioritised. 3. A reduction in a ‘planned maintenance program’ again is not necessarily representative of inadequate or reduced maintenance. It would depend on the quantum of the original planned program.
I have read the blog you cited and you provided no historical data other than for dividends. You also fail to mention that Labour postponed maintenance during their own period in Govt to build more state homes.
I would make one final point. The Govt spends something like $700m each year subsidising low income people’s rentals. That is a multiple of the dividend it receives from HNZ. I have an elderly friend who lives in a state house in Mt Albert, and over the past 6 years her home has been excellently maintained, including the addition of insulation and, very recently, thermal curtains. In my view your criticism is churlish, if not outright biased.
Did you not read what Frank wrote; Housing NZ admitted deferring maintenance due to inadequate funds.
You and Iceberg are ignoring what Housing NZ itself has admitted.
“Housing NZ admitted deferring maintenance due to inadequate funds. ”
No, not even Frank claimed that. The deferral was because a prior period overspend.
Yes, Frank did claim that. For good reason. It was true.
Stop mis-quoting what I and others have said. It is a dishonest way to try to support your party’s (National) policies.
The Housing NZ’s 2013/14 Annual Report statement on page 28 was crystal clear;
There was no “prior period overspend”. The spending period referenced in the HNZ statement was for;
Which is precisely the period covered by the Annual report; 2013/14.
So you’ve either not read what was written or – more likely – you’re engaging in a spot of muddying the waters.
Secondly, even Little Leader, Bill English was forced to admit on 24 March;
Ref: TVNZ News, “English concerned by State House deferred maintenance bill” – https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/english-concerned-by-state-house-deferred-maintenance-bill-6266554
So your own Minister of Finance has called you on your bullshit.
Every time you anonymous National trolls lie, evidence can be presented to counter your mis-information.
You are not doing your party any favours.
You have totally avoided the point. Where is the historical evidence that maintenance spend has been impacted by dividend payments? All you are providing is rhetoric, that I have already demonstrated can be interpreted differently to what you have represented. For example “we deliberately reduced the planned maintenance programme, which decreased the percentage of maintenance spend on planned activity” tells us NOTHING about historical spend, only about planned spend. Your previous article made the same mistakes…all rhetoric and quotes but no clear evidence.
One final thing. You have a habit of couching your points in long ‘opinion pieces’. Perhaps more hard evidence (as in cited data) and less opinion piece would make your point more effectively.
[Enough already. I’ve read Frank’s pieces and he provides plenty of citations. You are now crossing over into the Trolling Zone and I won’t tolerate that. Both you and Iceberg are banned from this page. If I see another post from either of you on this page, I will ban you both permanently. – ScarletMod ]
[Born In A Barn, you have disregarded my instructions to cease posting on this page.
Not only that, but it appears that you and previous user-name “Lion King” are one and the same person, “Lion King” was banned for trolling activities.
Your posting privileges are rescinded and we will be contacting your ISP for continuing to ignore our do-not-trespass instructions. – ScartletMod]
I just re-read Frank’s post on Housing NZ, and neither you, Barnman, or Iceberg, have much to say that address anything Frank has found.
Fact: The Nats have taken over $600 million in dividends. $600 million!!!
Fact: Labour took about a third of that amount.
Fact: HNZ admitted in the Annual Report they ran out of money to do their maintenance. They actually said that!!
Fact: Bill English has admitted HNZ has to defer maintenance.
Fact: You and Iceberg are dishonest Tory bootlickers.
Have a fucking nice day.
‘Dishonest Tory Bootlickers’
Aye….and that’s the truth of it.
1. The level of dividends do not necessarily determine the amount of maintenance. I have made this point previously, which you have chosen to ignore.
2. “Fact: HNZ admitted in the Annual Report they ran out of money to do their maintenance. They actually said that!!”
No, they didn’t. Read Franks cite above. “To mitigate this overspend, we deliberately reduced the planned maintenance programme , which decreased the percentage of maintenance spend on planned activity.”
Have a nice day.
“Borninabarn”;
No one ignored it.
We’ve shown it to be patently untrue.
Do not pretend to quote me. Especially when you are doing it dishonestly.
You are attempting to muddy the waters by denying something that Housing NZ has clearly admitted;
The text of the Housing NZ statement is crystal clear; HNZ ran out of money for maintenance.
What the Annual Reports show is that on-going dividend payments resulted in HNZ running out of money because the National government demanded $664 million in dividends over seven years.
It is pointless for anonymous, dishonest National supporters to then try to insist that black-is-white-and-white-is-black, because the information is there for all to see.
I’m not surprised you anonymous trolls hide behind pseudonyms – I’d be ashamed to present your lying crap as well.
[You have disregarded my instructions to cease posting on this page. Your posting privileges for TDB is rescinded. – ScarletMod]
Frank, you’ve demolished Iceberg and Bornina barn’s arguments very nicely.
These guys (one? two?) seem to be threatened by your researched conclusions.
Keep’em coming!
Fact: Bill English is a thieving “Hypocrite”
Fact: Tory’s are greedy, manipulating, self serving assholes.
While the Nats spent it on Flags, the UN seat for some flatulent Nat arse, Speakers trips–imagine having to travel with that dick, new money, charter schools, etc. Wastage galore while not maintaining enough houses well, for our poor. This is Prince John behaviour.
Born in a barn – you’re being deliberately mischievous. Frank gave citations for all his work and his figures included the previous Labour government.
By contrast, you offer no evidence nor links, we’re just expect to take your word for it?
Don’t think so chum!
“Iceberg dead ahead Cap’n!”
“Don’t worry lad, it’s dead in the water…”
Very poor Iceberg if your being tricky with the facts just to promote this arrogant government
Never let the facts get in the way of Tory propaganda.
Do the Tory Trolls Iceberg and Borninabarn (Jesus Complex) still get paid if the “dislikes/thumbs-downs” outweigh the “likes”?
A typical rubbish comment from a right wing troll, totally fantasised from the depths of his/her own ‘Planet Key’ fantasyland mind, as proven by the figures Frank has quoted in his rebuttal.
If Franks figures are the standard of proof around here, you’ve got big trouble. He’s not even brave enough to argue the actual issue.
Waste of time arguing with you iceberg,you will twist anything to spout the National lies.
No, it’s a waste of time because you have no argument.
Iceberg, enough already. You are now pointlessly arguing.
As for suggesting that the blog author is not “brave enough to argue the actual issue”, I will not tolerate that sort of ad hominem.
Do not post any more comments on this page. If you do, I will ban you permanently.
Well done Scarlet Mod.
I thought I’d walked into a Monty Python sketch.
No you haven’t.
Yes you have.
This isn’t an argument.
Yes it is.
Not only did he debate the issue, Iceberg, but he demolished your argument with prosaic calmness.
Face it, you’re not in the same league as our Frankie boy! Not even close! LOL!
Yes John Minto,
We agree,
Key is dismantling any positive payback dividends to the taxpayers that they have built up in the NZ Housing rental stock over many years and generations.
Key has blatantly just stolen everything he can while still in power.
We hope NZ wakes up as Australia did overnight, and demands key to be removed as our most destructive PM ever in NZ history.
While he borrowed to the hilt (Crown Debt 2007 at $8 Billion now at $107 Billion and rising daily.)
he is a disaster to NZ and must go.
Really? Those facts are “very easy to find”?
I notice you didn’t present them.
If they’re so easy to find, cite them.
Not unless you’ve made them up.
Housing NZ’s own stats show you to be badly misinformed – or worse, an outright propagandist for National;
– https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/shortage-of-housing-nz-properties-a-crisis-says-salvation-army-q11591
The anger is justified but the personalizing against specific individuals weakens it’s impact.
Economists of left and right know that poverty and the perception of it is critical to controlling not only the working poor but more importantly the middle class. As George Carlin put it the “The rich do non of the work and get most of the money. The middle and working class do most of the work and get some of the money. The poor are there to scare the shit out of the middle class.”
The personal attacks on Key and English don’t ring true – the electorate voted them in – 3 times in a row. A smug middle NZ who agree with National.
In part we on the left have failed. We have failed to counter the narrative of neo-liberalism.
Wow it took me all of 1 second to find out you were completely wrong Iceberg. I am not sure why people still make stupid claims while not checking to see if they are actually correct or not.
Only unusually stupid people can work for the right – it lets them look up in awe to the mediocrity of their paymasters.
And, it is DELIBERATE policy, part of the neoliberalist agenda to run down those houses, as an excuse to privatise them. The Tories have always HATED the State House system, and now, 80 years after the First Labour Govt set up this wonderful and highly successful system, they are deliberately running it into the ground, in order to get rid of it.
Very true John, very true. And he has certainly dealt to the concept of honour among thieves.
He’s just another skunner…
Well my friend is having her house redone by the end of the year. New carpet, fixing the gappy wooden windows, checking the insulation. Etc. So they are doing something to improve people’s lives. There is so much work to be done, they have to start somewhere.
One house?? You cite one house?? Well, bugger me.
Well Stoneman a girl I used to work with had a flood from the roof guttering which went inside, rotted the floor away in the lounge and toilet and now has mould everywhere inside the house. 6 months and all they’ve done is put a piece of plywood on it. Just one house I know of, if they have to start somewhere they should start by not taking so much $$$.
Clearly a policy of run it down, run it out of money and sell it off – transparent to everyone including most Tory’s I know who brag about it.
Mr Stoneham, one house done. 67,999 left to do up.
Your point?
Oh yes….the Double Dipper from Dipton….
Who also proudly announced ” We should be glad we have a LOW WAGE ECONOMY as this encourages foreign investment ”….
Well….Mr Dipper…have we got news for you !!!
Your economy is shit and your wages are shit and your houses are shit and your health and safety is shit.
And as last time we all looked…all that foreign investment never did a thing for the rest of us – except ramp up the profit margins so the STATE OWNED ASSETS you were so keen to sell off could provide the ‘foreign investors ‘ your so keen on even greater profits at OUR expense!!!
And they sure as hell didn’t do anything for Auckland house prices except lock out this and the next generations from ever owning a house – particularly in Auckland , eh , Mr Dipper?
And are you trying to tell us your proud of seeing your fellow countrymen ans women working for third world wages , Mr Dipper?
Seems like that is more an admonition of your failure as a finance minister and more like colluding with your super rich overseas buddies to rort even more from the NZ public, – DOESN’T it , Mr Dipper….
And if we didn’t know any better – it would seem like you see the public of this country less as citizens – but more as cash cows to be milked…
So which is it , Mr Dipper?…. just who’s side are you REALLY on here?….
Professor Jason Read said something that clearly applies here:
“People who dismiss the unemployed and dependent as ‘parasites’ fail to understand economics and parasitism. A successful parasite is one that is not recognized by its host, one that can make its host work for it without appearing as a burden. Such is the ruling class in a capitalist society.”
http://usmfreepress.org/2012/01/22/how-a-usm-professor-became-an-internet-meme/
HNZ are full of promises, but never follow through – Months ago I was told battery’s for the smoke alarms, fences & gates to stop our child running out the driveway ect, it took 10 years for my flaking bathroom to be repainted. Every year they would say that’s no good – we’ll fix it soon ( well don’t count on it). So when you’re ‘friend’ gets their repairs done I hope you buy them a lotto ticket Michael.
This government is useless
May I insert “worse than” between “is” and “useless” Sam? 🙂
Key and English said there were to be no more asset sales, now they are looking at selling off the State Housing stock. These guys are honestly out of control?
it is not fair that people are living in poor conditions. This has to be changed, many factors are affected by this. Children can be severely affected by living in poor and mouldy houses. This means that a family is living though poverty, and getting out of poverty is very difficult. We like to believe that New Zealand is a great place for children. If children are giving through these conditions and which may also be poverty, then it is unacceptable.
Earlier in 2014, The mother of a toddler whose death has been blamed in part on the poor condition of the family’s state house says she repeatedly asked Housing New Zealand to fix their family’s cold, damp home before her two-year-old daughter got sick and died.
The mother quoted “I kept ringing up. Everything in the house needed fixing. We needed carpet, drapes to try and keep the warmth in. There was hardly any sunshine in the house.” Nothing was done about it, and this had lead to a toddlers death. Standards in damp and cold homes to improve, in order to prevent another family experiencing such a tragedy.
How many families need to go through this for New Zealand Housing to make changes in New Zealand ??
National Party and Labour Party are two sides of the same coin, siphoning public resources in to private interests.
Who are the shareholders of The New Zealand Government Ltd?
By the way, well written Mr Minto! Keep’em coming!
its worse mickey savage over at the standard put up this article http://thestandard.org.nz/the-strip-mining-of-housing-corp-is-accelerated/
its 454 million they are sucking out we seriously need something like the pecora commision to probe and investigate the whole john key era and the national party itself there criminals and they need taking out !
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