A political panel will tell us why they oppose the signing of the TPPA: Grant Robertson, Labour; Metiria Turie, Greens; Marama Fox, Maori Party; and Fletcher Tabuteau, NZ First.
This forced trade deal creates a defacto upper chamber of our Parliament. It hands enormous power over to American corporations diminishing our ability to pass environmental laws, keep cheap medicines and ensure our Treaty obligations. The economics do not stack up either…
“Even that small benefit is a gross exaggeration. The modelling makes unfounded assumptions, and the real benefits will be far smaller. If the full costs were included, it is doubtful that there would be any net economic benefit to the New Zealand economy.”The main beneficiaries of tariff reductions from TPPA will be agricultural exporters, but modest tariff reductions of 1.3% on average by 2030 will be dwarfed by the ongoing volatility in commodity prices and exchange rates. The TPPA is not a gold standard agreement. “There remain extensive trade barriers to New Zealand agricultural exporters into the Japanese, Canadian and US food markets, and these are now locked in under the TPPA” explains Barry Coates who authored the section on agricultural trade.
Thanks for the tremendous effort, resources and time the organisers and helpers have put into this great public service.
Here are a few quotes to ponder:
‘.. the modern world has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy’.
— Alex Carey
‘In a democracy, the individual enjoys not only the ultimate power but carries the ultimate responsibility’.
— Norman Cousins
‘Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty and democracy. Power is ever stealing from the many to the few’.
–Wendell Phillips
‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing’.
–Edmund Burke
“One of the key planks of democracy is that all citizens are free to express themselves on all political issues. They are free to criticise the government. They are free to criticise the opposition. They are free to promote policies they like and protest against policies they abhor.
They march, they make placards, they deliver leaflets. They produce brochures, they send emails, they build websites. They take out advertisements in the paper, they call public meetings, they circulate petitions.
Two of the most powerful examples in recent years have been the debates over the foreshore and seabed, and over the smacking legislation. People had strong opinions, they were organised and they had their say, often loudly. A healthy democracy doesn’t just tolerate this – in fact, it requires it.
A quiet, obedient, and docile population; a culture of passivity and apathy; a meek acceptance of what politicians say and do – these things are not consistent with democracy.
A healthy democracy requires the active participation of citizens in public life and in public debates. Without this participation, democracy begins to wither and becomes the preserve of a small, select political elite…”
“Ladies and Gentlemen, I believe you get the democracy you are prepared to stand up for.
Here in New Zealand we often take our democratic freedoms for granted. We think they will always be there. We have a Bill of Rights which is supposed to protect our right to freedom of expression. What on Earth could go wrong?
I have a different view. I believe what Thomas Jefferson said – that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. We cannot and we must not take democratic freedoms for granted.
Because, in reality, it is not a Bill of Rights that protects our rights. It is not up to a solicitor in the Crown Law Office or an official in the Ministry of Justice. In the end, it is not up to the government at all.
The protection of rights lies with us, the citizens of New Zealand. There are times when we have to stand up for our rights, and the rights of our neighbours and friends, and indeed the rights of people we totally disagree with, or else these rights will begin to erode away. “
-Liar, hypocrite extraordinaire and traitor John Key.
John Key Speech to the National Press Club Tuesday, 28 August 2007.
From the very beginning, you have been well and truly sucked in and lied to New Zealand. John key doesn’t believe in one word he has ever said.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0708/S00481/john-key-speech-to-the-national-press-club.htm
I don’t see how anything the PM has done or said regarding the TPPA contradicts what he said in his speech to the Press Club.
The fact is that National was democratically elected and had/maintains mandate to enter into trade negotiations. What’s more, as long as National commands confidence of the House of Representatives, it can (political will permitting), pass legislation to give effect to its trade negotiations. THIS IS DEMOCRACY!
Your democracy involves your minority views being forced on everyone else. i.e. not democracy!
The majority of New Zealanders support the Government and support the TPPA.
Quite so steve, quite so.
I thought the role of Parliament and the Prime Minister was to act in the best interests of the country and its people. Signing the TPPA seems to do the opposite.
It doesn’t seem to matter how many times we explain why they’re wrong, pseudonomous Hollow Men just keep regurgitating these ‘key messages’, as if repetition makes things true.
1) winning a majority in a general election is not a mandate for a three year dictatorship that ignores public opinion. Democracy means governing parties listening to the public, and acting in the public interest, 365 days a year.
2) A government block that receives votes from only one-third of registered votes has no mandate to stuff any policy down the country’s throat
3) The majority of voters clearly do *not* support National or their corporatist, neo-liberal policies, as shown both by the general election result, and the result of the asset sales referendum
Finally, if National are so confident the majority of the public supports the TPP, why not put it to a referendum before committing future governments to its rules?
I suggest you brush up on your understanding of New Zealand’s Parliamentary.
1) Winning an election (through single-party majority or through coalition) enables the leading party to form a Government (executive) by operation of constitutional conventions;
2) The Government will have mandate so long as it commands confidence and supply in the House of Representatives;
3) The Government (Executive) must not act ultra vires legislation. However, because it commands majority of the House, it can (where politically possible and necessary) change legislation (through the proper process governed by Parliamentary convention) to further its agenda;
4) Parliament is supreme and its sovereignty is absolute;
5) Parliament and Government are politically beholden to the electorate every three years;
6) You, as a citizen, are entitled to vote and/or stand for Parliament if you oppose the Government. Your freedoms to criticise the Government are well protected.
Nope, you’re wrong there, the majority do not support the TPPA. According to a 3 News poll in November last year, only 34% supported the TPPA. 52% opposed it.
Ref: http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/kiwis-still-to-be-convinced-on-tpp-2015112017
Also, several polls have National under 50% – which is not “the majority. And the only poll that really counts was the 2014 election which had the Nats at 47.04% – which means the majority actually voted against National.
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_general_election,_2014
If you’re going to use stats, how about you give us factual ones instead of making it up?
Not much to ask, is it?
Read my comment again MacSkasy. I did not say that National commands a majority, I said it commands mandate and confidence of the House. You might want to brush up on your understanding of the Westminster Parliamentary system & its conventions on mandate.
As far as I’m concerned (and for that matter as far as the Electoral Act 1993 is concerned), the only poll that matters is the one determining who wins confidence and supply to form a Government.
Once a Government has mandate, and so long as it maintains confidence and supply (i.e. support of Parliament), it can implement its policy either through executive action where it has prerogative, or through enacting legislation where such is necessary. This is an accountable system of governance. National made it explicitly clear during the election campaign that it would continue working towards a TPPA.
I shouldn’t need to give you (and the other commentators here) such a rudimentary lesson in how our constitutional system gains mandate, and thus how the Government’s actions in respect of TPPA have thus far been legal.
National did NOT campaign on the TPPA during the 2014 general election, in fact National did not campaign on anything and used dirty politics to win it. No wonder National refused to get rid of coat tailing, the Nats knew without it they would have been unable to form a government.
For a number of reasons the Maori party should walk away from propping up National, but won’t. Like National, they speak with forked tongues, and cannot be trusted. As we have seen over the years John key will change our laws to make his illegal acts legal. Do you realize that important NZ laws that already exist will have to be changed to accommodate the foreign US corporate takeover called the TPPA?
Think again: https://www.national.org.nz/docs/default-source/PDF/2014/policy/trade.pdf
You should follow your own advice and think. You are one of those blind Nat followers, and promoting National’s lies doesn’t wash.
The TPPA is NOT a trade deal, and the rate of a measly 0.2% pa by 2030 (World Bank) is truly pitiful and pathetic to say the least. NZ could easily achieve that, without the TPP and without signing away our sovereignty.
Hi Frank,
I think it is misleading to say all voters that did not vote for national “voted against National”.
This comment is very divisive, creating a us and them mentality, which does nothing to assist public discussion about real policy.
It is not misleading at all to say that all voters that did not vote for national “voted against National” It is a fact.
And haven’t you noticed that National have that us and them mentality?
Get your facts straight, Steve. Many polls have been done on whether we should sign the TPPA. The majority of NZders do NOT want to sign the deal. Why do you think there is opposition worldwide. This is MORE than just a trade deal as well! I refuse to sell my country out to corporate dogs. Sadly, Steve, it sound like you have been hiding under the floorboards. The majority of NZders, as I said, do not support the pitiful TPPA.
I’ll give you the one poll that matters: THE SEPTEMBER 2014 GENERAL ELECTION!
That National rigged.
BS!
No, it’s not BS.
Except that Nat/Act/Maori/UF didn’t get 50% of the party vote – they got 49.27%.
They didn’t have a majority at the ballot, they don’t have a mandate.
A Government can never represent the people. Why? (In NewZealand’s case) Basic logic and maths gives us the answer. 121 MP’s (just people) who sit in our Parliament House that suppose to represent 4.4million New Zealanders is simply the great illusion of democracy us and all other democracies are abiding by. But.. it is better then a lot of others to. A quote;
A Man’s ideas, ideals, principles, morals, bias, hate, love, all experience from life to death are to him and him alone’
– I.M.Love
Here is how I brake it down one time on why democracy doesn’t and cannot speak for the people ( a small percent yes, but not all people).
Stats from 2014 general election voting numbers shows out of the 3,140,417 enrolled voters in NZ, 729,560 people didn’t vote (You can argue the none voters don’t have say because they didn’t vote,true enough that may be, but that aside, lets just look at just the numbers).
Which leaves 2,410,857 people who did. National won total 47% of the vote, so 47% of 2,410,87= 1,133,102.79 to be exact.
(So if your still following) This National Government in actual numbers fact only represents the 1million odd people who voted for National. This 1million is spoken for by 59 MP’s.
So when you say majority of people support the Government who are you really talking about?
Also the majority of what TPP is about actually has nothing to do with trade!! TPPA,TIPA and TISA is like a monopoly trade take over for the USA which is wanting to stop competition from emerging economies like China, India, Brazil and South Africa. And a lot of what TPPA covers doesn’t have anything to do with trade at all (again)!!
Please watch link below for more on TPPA,TIPA,TISA
https://youtu.be/Rw7P0RGZQxQ
Much Metta!
That must be some mighty fine grass you’re smoking over there Jace Da Ace! I’d love to give it a hoon!
Well Steve, that’s typical. You couldn’t counter with an effective response, so you launched into insults and putdowns instead.
If you believe that the majority of New Zealanders support the TPPA then show the results of ONE poll that backs up your claim.
And I mean real polls, not in house polls done by Federated Farmers, Chambers of Commerce or any other National policy rubberstamp organisations.
Just one!
Ok. Easy. Just one poll? How about the SEPTEMBER 2014 GENERAL ELECTION.
For your information, it’s the only poll that matters.
John Key and his National party didn’t campaign on the TPPA during the 2014 general election, and used dirty politics to win it.
National did campaign on working towards free trade agreements, including the TPPA: https://www.national.org.nz/docs/default-source/PDF/2014/policy/trade.pdf
Better luck next time friend.
National did NOT campaign on the TPPA during 2014 election. Dude all you are doing is spinning National’s lies. That appears to be your sole purpose on here, and promoting National’s lies are going to get you nowhere.
Your point is completely contradicted by National’s 2014 Election Manifesto pamphlet on foreign relations and trade which clearly states that a National Government will continue working towards the TPPA (as linked to above).
I win, you lose.
How old are you? 4 ? You didn’t win anything. National did not actively campaign on the TPPA during the 2014 general election.
SEPTEMBER 2014 GENERAL ELECTION that John Key used dirty politics to win.
It is indeed a poll that matters. It shows that National got 47% of the valid vote.
You are right in a sense that National campaigned on the TPPA. Its just that the one they are about to sign isn’t anything like the one they campaigned on. They campaigned on a gold standard TPPA, this is a plastic one with a bit of gold paint brushed on to make it look good. Too bad you can’t tell the difference.
Less than 50% voted for National’s TPPA in 2014.
Is that the “majority” of New Zealanders supporting the TPPA that you are talking about?
That went right over your head didn’t it? I guess there’s none so blind as those who will not see describes you well Steve. Everything you wrote is bull. John key has actively, through words and actions, contradicted everything he had said in his 2007 press club speech over the last 7 years.
The majority of New Zealanders neither supported the government nor supported the TPPA. 47% is not a mandate to sign away this country’s sovereignty and winning the election by way of dirty politics, (and not for the first time either), is far from being democratic. John key doesn’t even know the meaning of the word.
The baby throws his toys on the ground when he doesn’t get what he wants. Waaaa Waaaah!
National (ACT, United Future and the Maori Party) won. You lost. Get over it.
ROFL Look at Steve the baby having a paddy throwing his toys on the ground when he couldn’t come up with an effective response. Good thing National refused to ditch coat tailing, it knew its support partners couldn’t make it into parliament otherwise.
Now you are behaving like a 4 year old. It’s called politics dude, and politics has cycles, eventually, and a lot sooner than you would like to think, John key and his National government will lose and there goes Act, Maori Party and UF too. Lol bet you won’t get over that.
Corrupt Key that’s the word.
.
This very dreary.
Going over tired old points that have been countered.
[Mr Hankypants, the new email address you have provided is a “disposable”, temporary account. Please use your ISP email address from now on, or your posting privileges will be rescinded. – ScarletMod]
Thumbs up scarlet
Gawd the state of the left in NZ is even worse than I realised – I may have to donate as we need a strong opposition and this lot is just laughable.
anyone else having trouble with the givealittle page?
Excellent speakers. Now if only these 4 political parties would show the same passion and unity at the next election, we might finally get rid of Key and his cronies
Well Done, Beautiful factual information. The Key govt is the worst failure that “pseudo-democracy” has ever produced. Fight on against this enslaving TPPA. Wake up
Brilliant show it was, so we hope the MSM covers the excellent points that show TPPA up as nothing but a corporate take over attempt that USA will reject anyway.
The majority arnt always right neither are the minority but what is right is total freedom to write ,speak, inform on any platform available regardless of the machinations of the govt to control those freedoms
Thanks to TDB for offering this live stream!
The fight goes on, of some concern is that we are back to square one with the opposition. I missed a clear position from Grant Robertson as to what exactly Labour’s position is and what they will do.
Talking about a wider movement sounds nice, but there was little else he was specific on, apart from blaming Key and National for secret negotiations and what else we know.
Marama Fox continues the Maori Party’s dancing with the stars (Nats), although they are out of step on this one trade agreement.
Fletcher Tabuteau did some self promotion saying what HE has done in the House against this deal, stating NZ First’s and Winston’s opposition, but also appealing to citizens to contact their Nat MPs.
Only the Greens are rather clear on their opposition and remain committed to this.
I enjoyed again listening to Jane and her US guest, but we continue to have an incoherent opposition, where various parties differ on too much, which I fear does continue to give the public the impression, the opposition is not united and thus weak, which would not make for a good alternative government.
And for those that like to know about economics and the markets, I just learned that Shanghai’s exchange was down over six percent again today.
We are back in volatile territory, the TPPA will not mean much, will not bring any real gains and will be irrelevant anyway, as we face a real global economic and financial meltdown now.
I bet it will not pass the US Congress anyway, but not trade deal will protect us from what seems to be coming our way.
Grrr!
What we saw and heard was great…but the damn feed kept folding.
Any chance that it was recorded…youtube, perhaps?
And…the 0900 fundraising number, can that be put up somewhere?
Good work.
0900 68776 to donate $5.
Phone a few times.
Thank you so much TDB for the livestream.
This event was excellent, all the speakers were great. The fight is not over, and as Moana said, we are not alone.
Is there some way to watch this since I completely missed it?
National, ACT and United Future represent Corporate USA, not New Zealanders.
NZ debt has now grown to $120 Billion from $10 Billion since National came to power, I am glad my mortgage hasn’t grown from $100,000 to $1.2 million?
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