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  1. The most vocal United conspiracy community Iv come across are the permaculture/wind turbine crowd who will invent from twitter anything that breaks every known natural law just because they don’t want the buses and trains to run on time and they don’t want people to enjoy life.

    I guess the craziest conspiracy theory of all is how the Deep State is operating space battle ships, worn holes, teleportation and how the Alex Jones crowd believes that the AR15 can stop that.

    1. I would say an equally batshit crazy conspiracy theory is that people who give a damn about the planet going down the crapper are doing it solely to disrupt public services and stop people (who don’t give a damn about future generations) having fun.

      1. Ultimately you lose in debates or traumatize me by making sense.

        Literally every human being on the planet care about the area they occupy 100% it’s just no one has the authority.

  2. You forgot to mention religion. while many take the view that they are all wrong & it is obvious from the many different views they hold that they can’t all be correct it seems irrational to me that so many insist that everything evolved by chance & totally reject the idea that there could be a loving creator God.

    1. ‘so many insist that everything evolved by chance.’ Not true. It’s natural selection which is quite different from random chance.

    2. there is no god. creator – hmmm – agnostic on that one but as if man could even begin to understand such a thing.

    3. One problem with the creator explanation is that the origin of the creator then needs explanation. Along with an explanation of the exact nature of that creator and whether there is only one of that species or a family /population . ancestors etc.
      It is truly remarkable that so many people, of whatever major religion save perhaps Buddhism refers to teachers of life that had such a small understanding of the nature of the world compared with what we have accumulate in the intervening thousands of years. I must say though that their understanding of human nature was probably no less astute than ours.
      I hope you meet your god when the time comes.
      D J S

      1. Any God that needs an origin is plainly not God. While I can appreciate that you don’t believe scripture it is clear that God has always existed
        Before the mountains were brought forth,
        Or ever You had formed the earth and the world,
        Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.
        And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
        While I see the point you are making with “such a small understanding of the nature of the world” you could also apply that to Darwin because he had no idea about the contents of a living cell. I wish you all the best also.

  3. I still just don’t get it. The painting of the Woke left as some overwhelming and misguided political force.
    “… but they are beyond doubt claims of extraordinary political significance.” Is that really true?
    Seriously? Are these issues still controverial or divisive in NZ?
    Also – writing comments on social media is not a political act – it is simply engaging with an advertising platform – nothing more.
    I was around in the 90’s when there was the exact same hysteria – it was called ‘PC gone mad’ and it was all to do with the diminishing returns on racist, sexist and homophobic behavior.
    People had to toughen up we were told because of ‘free speech’ and the ‘nanny state’ etc. Articles and rants were printed by successful, old, angry men expressing their outrage and predicting the collapse of human civilisation …
    It all sounds so boringly familiar doesn’t it. I didn’t buy it last time and I’m not buying it this time either. Sorry Chris.

    1. Yes, the magical balance-fairy doesn’t even come close to fitting into its shoes in this analysis. Trotter being provocative.

    2. Disagree Peter. This is whole other level. Have you spent any time on a University lately or attended Wgtn Govt Head Office events lately? I think it depends where you live and what you are involved in as to how much you see it.

      My husband works is a part of a group of small business managers that meet virtually every week or so. He is only 1 of 2 that are in Wgtn, the others in Auckland. And the difference is startling. Economically Auckland and Wgtn are completely different and although this woke stuff has been going on in Wgtn for a couple of years now, they laugh at suggestions that the new “Woke” are having any impact on business whereas in Wgtn, diversity hiring especially at senior level means you are now doing business with very different types of people or with organisations with very different types of policies. They want to know all about your woke credentials before doing work with you and in some cases, what specific ToW enhancing activities you are engaged in eg: How many Maori you employ blah de blah.

      They were laughing right up until they discovered what the new Maori business requirements mean for next years ‘All of Govt’ contract (5 yearly review of who can get onto an already slimmed down panel of who is allowed to provide services to Govt). How as smaller fish in a sea of a few large sharks that the only sure way to guarantee their acceptance (Previously on price and service) onto AoG was to sell 1/2 their business to Maori.

      So Peter it is having very tangible effects in real life (No comment on its appropriateness) and in these environments the issues are not just political but economic and social as well.

      1. Your response is the most interesting and because you are discussing economics – which should be the real focus for us socialists – not the fluff.
        What you are describing has significant long term economic benefits to Maori – this is a deliberate economic intervention to grow the Moari middle class and has almost nothing to do with being “woke”.
        From the business owners perpective without any context as to why such a policy exists it sounds like an outrageous interference in “freedom”, “democracy” and all the other things we throw around to justify our outrage.
        Now put raw economic and statistical facts into the picture – Maori rates of poverty, imprisonment, unempoyment and under achievement and the grinding emiseration these create.
        Why not add some history into that as well – Maori history that is – the details of loss and destruction of accumulated wealth.
        It paints a more complex picture.

        1. Agree Peter hence why I said I wasnt commenting on its appropriateness. Whether it is right or otherwise, it is still race based identity politics hence ‘woke’ and again, despite potentially good effects, it is anti democratic and unfair.

          I gave the economic example because it is specific and demonstrates why it is complex and much further reaching than 90’s PC talk. My issue with the changes are myriad but in this instance, I’d say this:

          1. A system that hands power to people on the basis of race is inherently wrong. It was wrong in South Africa but somehow, we think its right in NZ.
          But also economically and socially disastrous when the majority has power taken away by the minority. Ultimately one way or another the majority will rise up against the minority and that would be bad on many levels.
          2. If such a transfer of power takes place, you will get major F Ups occurring for at least 10 years, probably more like a generation. Not because Maori are not capable but because there are so few in various professions and, relatively few with good senior level experience. And again this is being played out in the woker government departments down here in Wellington.

          Stories about Maori run units or functional areas that are literally hives of massive staff turnover and non delivery. So it’s a transitional issue but one that is causing big problems.

          Finally, just supposing that there is a major economic shift to Maori, if a big chunk of that money shifts to Iwi led organisations that are tax free, how does the Govt remain in the black?

          Hence why Identity Politics is so dangerous because it is always about ideology before reality. The need to be right and do right is sinking us all and it is also stridently authoritarian in tone.

          Far better to solve the problems by charting a more centrist and practical approach. and no, I dont mean sweeping issues under the rug.

    3. If you haven’t noticed the vehemence and vitriol directed against those who contradict the assumptions of the Woke Left, Peter, then you haven’t been paying political attention.

      No rational person endorses the hateful persecution of persons on account of factors over which they have no control, but, equally, no rational person attempts to silence others for the “crime” of disagreeing with them.

      The real crisis consuming the Anglophone countries is epistemological. Agreement about what we know, and how we know it, is no longer general. The consequences of this fracturing of the epistemological consensus are all around us, and until some general measure of agreement is restored they are only going to get worse.

      1. Many lies have unraveled and the epistemological crisis we are living can’t be solved by returning to ‘certainties’ that relied on them.

        Worth more and worth less is always subject to reshuffling the deck. It means we can all find ourselves falling on the wrong side of the equation and rendered relatively or completely voiceless as a result.

        Being stuck in endless hierarchical competition is the underlying problem where being ‘up’ relies on someone else being ‘down’ and maintaining the preferred status relies on their enforced silence.

        All sides will necessarily come to wear its own share of the guilt as long as this underlying dynamic remains.

        It seems to me that this is a major epistemological stalemate and if there is a solution it will require finding comfort beyond it.

      2. I haven’t been paying attention because I don’t take any notice of what happens on social media or who got banned from Twitter.
        If a University Professor from the feudal ages is let go, I don’t see it as a major crisis of woke interference.
        If customers boycott a business because the owner has regressive views and chooses to express them – that’s everyone exercising their free will – not malign woke activism.
        Also, no-one is being “silenced” – any one who has views that can be released on YouTube or Stuff can publish them any other way they want – there is no “silencing”. More like ignoring – but that’s not the same as “silencing”.

        I had to google epistemological – “agreement about what we know, and how we know it, is no longer general” – was it ever? Pick anytime in history and any society and apply that to the reality of complex and un-predictable human interaction. Such as statement can only be applied to small segments or fields of knowledge.

    4. I’ll start with a caveat that the people who get stand to get hurt most by what passes for modern Woke activism are the most vulnerable, often very people they claim to support. For example I make the claim that trans activism does not represent most trans people, the same is true for other identity groups.

      “I still just don’t get it. The painting of the Woke left as some overwhelming and misguided political force.”

      @Peter depends on your definition of “overwhelming and misguided political force”. If a cultural landscape where a biological male can go to the olympics to compete against women (ditto for MMA, swimming, cycling) doesn’t seem off how about some more extreme and damaging examples?

      Gender self ID and prisons?
      https://wesleyyang.substack.com/p/jails-without-gatekeeping-evidence
      https://www.womensliberationfront.org/news/ca-womens-prisons-anticipate-pregnancy-sb123

      How about education?
      https://wesleyyang.substack.com/p/yes-things-are-really-as-bad-as-youve
      https://democracyproject.nz/2022/04/22/elizabeth-rata-the-decolonisation-of-education-in-new-zealand/
      https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/the-bigotry-of-low-expectations-maori-literacy

      How about the racial politics of childcare, social work, policing etc?
      https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/07/17/grooming-gangs-the-making-of-a-national-scandal/
      https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/05/28/oranga-tamarikis-critical-race-theory-in-all-its-ugliness/

      “It all sounds so boringly familiar doesn’t it. I didn’t buy it last time and I’m not buying it this time either. Sorry Chris.”

      The list of links I could have posted goes on and on and on such that as Wesley Yang’s piece begins these things are so outlandish that to say them aloud makes you sound like a right wing provocateur. Does the cultural landscape and discourse that makes these things possible even desirable and morally righteous seem even a little bit off to you?

    5. The best story about “PC gone mad” I’ve heard about comes from a former flat mate from the early’90’s. Back then she was a new qualified nurse, and was training to become a theatre nurse. This was when “cultural safety” was in vogue. Essentially a nurse could make any god awful mistake in the operating theatre, but as long as she was “culturally safe” everything would be okay. Being a smart woman she kept her mouth shut while she trained. She ended up working for a surgeon but only in private practice. She now works in Australia, is paid lots more & the focus is on the actual life of the patient.

    6. Thankyou Peter.
      Opposite gender.
      Full agreement.
      Not buying it repackaged either.

  4. ‘there is nothing good…or bad…only thinking..makes it..so’!W.Shakespeare.

  5. The documentary makers’ claim that conspiracy theories now constitute an important component of mainstream political discourse is as troubling as it is true.
    This fits in with my feeling that we are on a BellCurve in societal behaviour and thinking, and are on the way downwards despite all our education and cleverness with computers etc. One should remember that people truly brilliant can be punished as Turing was, by people who privately might accept behaviour that he was bedevilled for.

    According to what I have read in Anne Perry’s novels, in Victorian times the lower orders didn’t get their news from reading papers, they had patterers who had a stand in the street and somehow told the news and gossip so interested people could keep up with events. These purveyors of juicy ideas tainted with malice as these conspiracy theorists are, seem close to those old patterers.M any people prefer their drama, invective or wit to dry facts, and seeking truth, which often doesn’t bring any ease or comfort to them, so as they seem to have no agency in their lives and people constantly surprise, why should they bother to disbelieve what they hear, sift through the stories for complete, basic truth. People might do anything so why not believe the gossip is the attitude. When the populace lose trust in ‘the good society’ then they will believe what they wish. Those who ponder have realised that we are very protean.

  6. Too many conspiracy theories end up leading to revelations that indicate that our authorities need constant scrutiny. As Adam Smith commented if a group of businessmen are meeting behind closed door they can only be discussing one thing…. Your money.

    With regard to Woke refer to Mattias Desmet on mass formation psychosis, it is far more dangerous than conspiracy theorists because it is a stage towards and beyond totalitarianism.

  7. If “The most dangerous conspiracy theory of them all is the one that declares there’s a whole host of dangerous people out there who simply will not accept that ours is the only side that knows the truth,” call me dangerous.

    1. That last paragraph is the saving grace of the whole piece. It is completely neutral and clarifies that no one has a monopoly on the truth. The conspiracy theories might turn out to be true and of course they often do.
      We have to try to keep an open mind .
      D J S

  8. Wasn’t Jones yanked up in front of some court, and forced to admit that he got a bit carried away at times? Heh heh…

    1. @Chris Harris Indeed, if memory serves part of Jones’ defences was that he was an entertainer.
      Tucker Carlson had a similar defence against Karen McDougal. However as Glenn Greenwald (hardly a bastion of right wing journalism) points out, Rachel Maddow MSNBC’s top rated host won a defamation case brought against her because
      “Rachel Maddow is among those “speakers whose statements cannot reasonably be interpreted as allegations of fact.”
      https://greenwald.substack.com/p/a-court-ruled-rachel-maddows-viewers

  9. There is an American comedian you never heard of his name is George Carlin. He was a conspiracy theorist and he was funny.

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