The first of the two moderators at CBS headquarters in New York promised “a consequential night ahead” – everyone knew that was a lie because Vice Presidential debates have never counted for anything, never moved any dials, never shifted any allegiances. They are pro forma chores, performed for an impatient electorate. No matter how big a network TV anchorwoman’s shoulder pads are it could not make it true. The non-entity runners-up would never be able to affect the outcome of the election – not even the top of the ticket debate devolving into the eating of pets could change the trajectory.
They said voting was already underway in twenty states. Five weeks out from the Presidential election and voting has started in almost half the country. Christ how idiotic. Putting Christmas presents under the tree at Halloween. Their state-by-state basis for a nationwide federal office – with no uniformity at all – is a moronic electoral system. Having random states vote months in advance is just pointlessly insane. Trump could well be killed in a third-time-lucky assassination by then. Do Americans appreciate how faulty their elections are? The obsession with machines to do the voting and the counting are bad enough but the rest of the rules are also mad. It’s as though they were formulated 236 years ago.
The two moderators sit behind a garish plastic desk, they are generic middle aged white women – they could be twins. Twin Barbies. For balance they wear the colours of the candidates ties – one blue, the other fuchsia. The first, in blue, gives her name and introduces the candidates – all done rapidly. The two candidates give big phony American smiles as the camera dollies in. There’s an awkward sequence of nodding from the hosts before a cut to the podiums where it appears the candidates have just shaken hands – but the moment was missed. Live television – nothing like it. Fuchsia barbie goes through the agreed debate rules. Questions will be directed to one candidate who will have two minutes to respond and then a two minute rebuttal with an another one minute each for further points and an additional one minute each at the discretion of the moderators. Blue barbie tells us CBS reserves the right to mute candidates’ microphones “to maintain decorum” and assures us the questions have not been shared in advance. Incredible that they would even have to mention this but CNN hated Trump so much they gave Hillary Clinton the questions in advance in 2016 so it has been a live issue since then.
Vance was wearing more eyeliner than the two female hosts were and what’s more he did his own. He has a sleazy confidence. Maybe he had got to second base with the sofa in the Green room just before, who knows. Walz was practically bald, looking and like Ed Asner (Lou Grant) but more concerned than confident, unsure.
Inexplicably there is no opening statement. How demeaning to the candidates, like they don’t deserve the respect of affording them this because they are merely the Vices that aren’t worth a pitcher of warm piss. This is irritating and just wrong – no-one in their right mind would start it like this, it’s just rude. It forces the candidates to use up time on the first question introducing themselves and giving their overview. This diminishes everyone including the viewers. A terribly bad call.
It starts with a dramatic question on the Middle East. “Earlier today Iran launched its largest attack yet on Israel, but that attack failed thanks to joint US and Israeli action…” See how they framed that? It “failed.” Because no civilians were killed like how Israel defines a successful attack? Failed because only some of the missiles got through to their intended (military) targets? The only thing failing in this was the journalism. They’re the ones that need to be fact-checked. Straight out propaganda, just like NZ mainstream media, how familiar. Fuchsia barbie recounts all the American military assets scrambled to defend their 51st state and then simply says: “Iran is weakened.” As if the propaganda spiel listing American hardware alone justifies that claim. It is just outrageous. She says Iran getting nukes is down to “one or two weeks time.” Astounding claims just thrown out there. “Governor Walz, if you were the final voice in the situation room would you support or oppose a pre-emptive strike by Israel on Iran? You have two minutes.”
He finally looks up from the podium and he looks ill. Is he pale or is he just Minnesota white? He’s nervous. He’s swallowing hard, he’s stopping and starting. He mentions October 7th. He mentions the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. He’s struggling for coherency. “But the expansion of Israel and its proxies is an absolute and fundamental necessity for the United States to steady leadership there…” He meant Iran. He meant Iran. He said Israel, but he meant Iran. He’s barely into his third actual formed sentence and he’s got the two confused. What a mess. You wouldn’t want this guy even serving coffee in the situation room let alone making a final decision on anything that might precipitate WWIII – he’s likely to nuke the wrong country. Then he suddenly veers off saying that Trump in the Presidential debate was an 80-year old talking about crowd sizes and how terrible he is. And I thought Harris was the flaky one!? His disjointed sentences are just random bullet points. He’s running down the time and he hasn’t answered the question, squeezing in at the end: “we’ll protect our forces and allied forces and there will be consequences.” It took until the last seconds of the two minutes to get a concrete answer that was both vague and belligerent.
Same question to Vance. He gives an introduction to himself instead – completely understandable. He sounds smooth, slick. He hits on “the American dream.” He handles it like a pro, making Walz’s flubbing by contrast much worse. He pivots to attack the Biden administration for easing sanctions on Iran. Fair enough. To his credit (and he did this throughout the debate whereas Walz seemed incapable of it) he reiterated the question and then answered it. “It is up to Israel to do what they think they need to do to keep their country safe and we should support our allies wherever they are fighting the bad guys. I think that’s the right approach to take to the Israel question.” But it was an Iran question wasn’t it? “Bad guys” was a folksy phrase aimed to the lower education grades where Trump is doing well.
Neither candidate wanted to sketch out the strategic issues of what protecting forces and supporting our allies would mean. That sketch might take on the shape of a mushroom cloud – no wonder they don’t want to start painting by numbers provided by Netanyahu on live TV. But the pink moderator asks Walz if he cared to respond to any of the allegations. Walz hammered Trump calling him “fickle” repeatedly, emphasising Harris as “steady”. Fushcia barbie – according to my understanding of the rules – should have asked Vance to respond, but instead she asks him about Trump’s previous stance of exiting the Iran nuclear deal and his recent statement saying a diplomatic deal must be made with Iran because “the consequences are impossible. Did he make a mistake? You have one minute.” The question itself is valid, but I don’t think that is within the rules for her to have posed it – especially when she just simply gave the floor to Walz to say whatever he wanted. I’m calling bias here – and we’re still only on the first question (it happened again later too). Vance says the last three and half years have been under Biden/Harris not under Trump and that’s where the blame lies claiming there were no conflicts breaking out under Trump (which is true enough, but still unsatisfacory).
Interestingly, disturbingly, neither of the candidates refuted the moderator’s claim Iran is a week or two away from becoming a nuclear power. Assuming Trump is still receiving briefings – as he is entitled to as a former President – is he in receipt of the same information – and is this why he now advocates a diplomatic solution? Is the fortnight window to a potential Middle East Armaggedon a consensus opinion?
Gaming out the Iran – Israel scenario in the new dispensation where both have nukes becomes somewhat confounding. Only semi-organised skirmishes of little consequence have ever taken place between nuclear powers before, but this could be quite a different affray given Israel’s hardline government and their vowed policy of depriving Iran of nukes. What would the US involvement be? My guess is this is why Trump has swung towards resolving things without conflict – because the outcome of a confrontation is unpredictable. Trump has been vocal about how affected he was by his inaugural nuclear briefing and how unthinkable their use would be and there seems no reason to doubt his sincerity on that. His boasting of saving 20 million Koreans from war by meeting Kim Jong Un indicates he will take political risks to prevent tensions boiling over. But the election is more than two weeks away and Biden is Commander in Chief until January regardless of the result.
Biden has been so weak on Israel we stand at a dangerous junction. He looked and sounded lucid – for the first time in months – during a hurricane emergency meeting this week, but that natural adrenaline (or Dr Biden’s Jill juice) cannot be relied upon in a circumstance of an intense crisis. That crisis could arise whenever Netenyahu and his war cabinet choose, whether it’s a reaction to Iranian developments or not.
My guess is the AIPAC pressure suppressing Biden’s free hand evaporates on polling day, so the acute jeopardy is from now till then. If Netenyahu thinks Trump will cut a deal with Iran (to stop their nukes in exchange for lifting sanctions for example), Netenyahu might calculate it is better to pre-emptively strike Iran before the election. Iran might well see the best outcome as a deal, but since that is a 50/50 probability dependent on a Trump win they might see going nuclear before the election and before any Israeli strike as the next best outcome and the more realistic option. There could be brinkmanship ahead with the US at its absolute weakest in terms of decision-making. Whether the Israeli red line is crossed before the election or not the fact the assessment is that it could be is enough to sober up the rhetoric at least. What does support to Israel look like, and does that mean committing any of the 40,000 US troops in the theatre to action that would make them targets? All of this seemed to be above both VP candidate’s pay grade.
Interestingly, disturbingly Ukraine was not a question – nor was it an answer, it never arose in the course if the debate (or if it did it was a blip inconsequential enough that I missed it). The US can – and let’s be honest about it – single-handedly cause the worst land war in Europe since WWII killing tens and probably hundreds of thousands and spending hundreds of billions of dollars on it and it’s not even worth debating! It is incredible to an outsider, yet Americans seem so blasé about starting and funding wars they don’t even question their murderous, wasteful, barbarism – apparently not an issue. Tie themselves in knots on abortion, on trying to make an insurance-based healthcare system work, yet dragging NATO into a war with Russia… not important. They are a degenerate people in many ways that they cannot comprehend.
As for the balance of the debate: Walz overcame his nerves, but demonstrated what I’ve seen before as a reflexive avoidance of answering a straight question which is infuriating and damages his credibility. Vance came under increasing pressure until he also resorted to all-out avoidance. Both exaggerated and fibbed a bit. Both made an effort to agree with each other where it arose in total contrast to the outright visceral hostility of their running mates in Presidential debate.
Both would be adequate VPs. Both lack the presence and personality to be the President – which is exactly why they were chosen.
A good analysis of the debate -Watched a bit of it but it was inconequential stuff with two nonentities unless of course the president desparts.
Iran is a military superpower it has the capacity to defend itself and if their hypersonic missiles fired towards Israel in just 10 mins of launch travelling a distance of over 1789 km= 1,112 miles isn’t convincing enough for the apartheid Israel supporters than you’re fucken brainwashed dumb fucks.
Dear Stephen (not Hawking that’s for damn sure!)
It’s a good thing that amongst all of us “fucken brainwashed dumb fucks” there is you, the only intelligent being left on Earth. What would we do without you, ay???? Or put another way: isn’t incredible, how the same far lefties always have this need to express themselves in most obnoxious and aggressive fashion to get their points across!
Jonzie, just stating facts and claiming something I never said is indicative of a fucken troll
Yep Jonzie Kraut is a troll. Now about that Vance none answer to whether he agrees the last election was stolen?
Earlier in the year, before Biden got swapped out for Harris, it could have been said that the VP contest was absolutely consequential.
Biden looked liked he’d struggle to be deemed mentally fit by the end of his first term, let alone complete a second one. If Biden won there was a real chance that Harris would eventually have to relieve him of the presidency.
With a Trump victory, his legal woes could prevent him completing a second term. If the House was to be controlled by the Democrats after the election, or at the next mid-terms, then no doubt the third season of the Trump-Impeachment show will return. Or a third assassination attempt. Vance would take his place.
As things currently stand, who Waltz is may not matter so much. All he has to do is be an older, white guy to complement Harris, the not-so-young woman of colour. Vance, though, may have to replace an embattled Trump.
Glad everybody is now accepting Biden’s senility. Remember that the MSM pushing Harris and Walz was lying about Biden up until June 27 when that wouldn’t work any longer.
Lols. Biden wasn’t senile by any stretch of the imagination, certainly nowhere near as mentally dislocated as his rival, Trump.
Biden was simply elderly, and it showed physically, notably in his gait and increasing loss of full control of his lifelong stammer.
The “stammer”? Riiiiggghhhtt. Even after June 27 you still believe.
And you believe in Trump even after his insurrection, even after drinking his coolaid, even after they’re eating the cats and dogs. Fuck your hilarious xenophobe/Im tighty not righty.
Speaking of lying… Donald Trump claiming Pence was too honest?
“But…but… you guys promised there would be no fact checking!”
– J D Vance to the ‘debate’ moderators.
Nothing more need be said
But unlike the giant squish Romney in 2012 he didn’t let it phase him but fact-checked the moderator. Brilliant.
Nah, he simply doubled down on his lies and was again corrected by the moderator, it was brilliant.
And now you are fact checking Xenophon, that was brilliant.
Temporary Protected Status is for illegal immigrants, not legal immigrants. Vance was right and the MSM moderator was wrong because all she knew was the word “legal”.
Incorrect as usual xenophobe.
Exactly Richard when you ask the moderator not to fact check it is an admission your lying, full stop Xenophobe. Twist it however you like, it’s still the same result.
Nope. It’s up to the other candidate to do the fact-checking and Vance, Walz and CBS agreed to those rules – and then CBS broke them.
Nope Vance cried “you promised not to fact check”.
Like you, he’s a sook.
You make several good points. Walz came across as unintelligent, unprepared and in the difficult position of having to defend disastrous outcomes of Democrat policies over the last 4 years. No wonder he was flustered!
As for what Trump will do in the Middle East, all we have to do is extrapolate his previous policy direction:
> Sanction Iran and starve them of the financial means to terrorize their neighbouring states. (Because the real issue isn’t Israel, it’s Iran. Israel is just one of several states under constant threat from Iran)
> He will maximize US oil production in order to drive down the oil price and so cripple both the Mullahs and Putin.
> Persuade the remaining Sunni gulf states to sign up to the Abaham Accords.
> Bring the hopelessly corrupt UN to heel. Maybe he would cut off their funding again. Certainly, if he wins in November, UNWRA is a gone burger.
No need to worry about any of that nightmare, planet destroying scenario.
Trump is going to lose the election, then he’ll be tried, bankrupted and imprisoned. Unless he dies first or is committed to a psychiatric asylum.
We’ll see!
Ohhh c’mon Sick, there is no way Trump can lose, the rigging in the polls to make it look close is so the Democrats can ensure their voters come out and vote, if the true polls were shown (Trump 10+% ahead) Dems would have a reduction in voting numbers. By pretending that each Democrat vote is crucial perpetuates the myth of it being neck and neck.
Trump will win by at least 100 college votes.
You read it here first folks…..your all welcome to come back after the election and acknowledge my foresight and political knowledge.
Here’s another….Labour will be out of power till at least 2029, probably 2032.
I hope you’re right! Supporting your theory is the result of the 2016 election, where the polls had Hillary winning yet Trump trounced her on the day.
Points supporting a Trump victory:
>He’s more capable of campaigning than Harris, who seems incapable of even surviving an interview unscathed.
> The mess left by Biden/Harris cannot easily be disowned by her. Illegal immigration is the #1 issue in this election.
> Polls indicate that Trump is getting traction among black and Hispanic voters like no Republican has in recent times.
> Silly claims by Democrats that Trump is a potential tyrant don’t withstand the evidence of his previous administration, which was a period of high employment, low inflation and no wars.
> This time the Democrats don’t have FBI censors embedded in Twitter.
> This time they don’t have the cover of Covid to commit electoral fraud.
In favour of Harris:
> 25 million illegal aliens are being given IDs and can be registered to vote.
> Many states are still using postal ballots which are wide open to fraud and ‘ballot harvesting’.
> The tech giants, especially Google can and do pervert and censor search results.
> She has more money
> She has most of the media and Hollywood on her side
> The Democrat Machine has a stronger ‘ground game’ with an army of paid volunteers working the streets.
1.”Silly” claims? Not nearly as silly as that statement. You obviously don’t follow American politics, Trump is quite probably going to jail for his attempt to foment a coup on January 6. Not if he wins of course because the sneaky prick will pardon himself.
2. The tech giants certainly do pervert and sensor search results, but your hero Musk perverts and sensors in favour of Trump.
3. The amount of electoral fraud is minuscule as has been shown by 60+ court cases, some of whom were heard by Trump appointed judges, and all thrown out. And when you do find cases of electoral fraud they are usually minor and committed by Republicans.
4. If the media is on Harris’s side, how come it’s taken them until now – New York Times – to start writing about Trump’s obvious mental disabilities? They were all over Biden’s like a cheap suit, and it wasn’t nearly as bad as Trump’s is.
5. Illegal immigration? I think Biden sent more people home than Trump ever did.
6. Under Trump the country lost jobs and income stagnated. Biden has added hundreds of thousands of jobs, and income for the first time since the 1970s is tracking ahead of inflation.
7. Trump promised to get out of Afghanistan, then released 5000 religious fanatics from jail, who obviously then kept the war going, while Biden had to sort out the mess.
I don’t know where you get your information from I suspect Fox News – but it’s all Bullshit anyway.
“The rigging of the votes”
Funny how even Trump approved courts found no evidence of rigging.
It’s now Im tighty righty down the rabbit hole.
Your foresight is showing your la k of personal nous, just like the last USA election cycle.
Promotion of a sexual predator and criminal and an insurrection may appeal to your type and clearly in your case Trump is just like you but those of us with morals could never support such a horrendous fiend.
Betcha that “Squeaky” did not just support but loved both Clintons.
Like all your idiotic comments you gamble on the truth and come out a loser xenophobe but it’s not xenophobe is it? It’s really Tighty Im not righty in disguise.
“True polls? Even those that traditionally skew right have Harris pretty much well ahead now. Of course it doesn’t matter quite so much given that it’s all going to be decided in a few battleground states, but even so she will easily win the popular vote – just as Hillary did.
Tighty Im not Righty …”True polls” the last USA election as evidenced by every Trump appointed court. It seems Trump didn’t get the memo. Hahahahahaha!
Andrew your hard right delusions that there was election fraud has been debunked at every turn or is it only election fraud when your deranged orange buffoon loses? He is a loser and convicted felon yet we know that, the issue lays with your warped view.
Handy(capped) Andy.
He made great points on Vance also stating he was concerned, unsure sleazy and a liar.
Just for a bit of balance.
Those things you think Trump will do aren’t his thoughts, they’re those of his party. Trumps ideas belong in his trousers and court rooms because of his sleazy and illegal behavior.
Trumps ideas belong in his trousers… Oh, so now we can talk about “Heels Up Harris”?
Grab em by the pussy when your famous eh Xenophobe.
Kamala said that?
Kamala has to pay out thousands for sexual abuse?
Oh xenophobe, you little try hard you.
Walz came across as nervous rather than unprepared. Vance is simply as they say – slick, and certainly intelligent but there’s nothing for him to get a grip on in the way of policy. Funnily enough, both got an uptick in the polls after the debate. Walz’ was huge – I think about 30 points. Vance is still in negative territory popularity wise.
Do you think Palestinans are subhuman vermin Andrew?
When even CNN gives it to Vance and the MSNBC crew are spewing you know Walz lost, and lost huge.
How much is huge homophobe?
Didd CNN say he lost huge or just Trump and your version of biggly because Vance had ” alternative” facts”
Fact checker wasnt allowed to be used because the Reps and Vance said no.
Vanz’s fact was correct. Her’s was not. He’d actually read the law.
Who said his fact was correct given he refused to have it checked?
It’s called Google. You can check yourself and find out that he was correct.
Google like your “X” site you use for reference, hahahahahaha!
The Xenophobe example: when you’re too insane even for The BFD.
JD Vance = Christian Taliban.
He is a Christian version of Ayatollah Khomheini and he will impose Christian Sharia law on the USA when he comes to power.
The Millsy example: when you’re too insane even for The Standard.
Am I wrong? Mind you didnt you once call for LGBT people to be imprisoned, and that they had too much rights apparently?
Yes you are wrong, and that wasn’t me but the voice in your head labeled “Xenophon”, partying with all the other voices.
Sometimes it’s hard to spot stupid but the Maga hat Xenophobe wears makes it much easier.
No wonder you were exiled.
It’s easy to spot stupidity when you wear your maga hat Xenophobe.
Well, if you support Trump, you support his theocratic agenda.
Im sorry, I dont make the rules.
Ah! That explains his decades-long support for gay rights, including gay marriage.
And you believed him xenophobe?, hahahahahaha!
Donald Trump’s administration initiated a sustained, years-long effort to erase protections for LGBTQ people. This included an effort to “define ‘transgender’ out of existence,” erode protections for transgender students and workers, and weaken access to gender-affirming health care that most transgender people already struggled to access.
So he was saving LGB’s from being Transed away. JK Rowling would approve. Why do you hate gays again?
Wow why do you and Trump hate transgender people again? You clearly are illiterate otherwise there’d be no need for a response from you.
Lefty Ana Kasparian has had it with the Trans as well
Chuckle. And now the TYT’s Anna Kasparian has had it with the Left, and over a whole bunch of issues.