Every time the NZ Police get caught using interrogation techniques that imprison an innocent person, they scream and cry and wail that they have learnt their lesson and won’t frame innocent people for crimes they didn’t commit.
Well, another brilliant expose Stuff has highlighted how often the NZ Police used a corrupted interviewing technique to continue framing people for crimes…
The high-profile homicides and the troubled interview method
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- A controversial interviewing technique has been abandoned by police, but not before it was used in five homicide investigations, and influenced various others.
- The Complex Investigation Phased Engagement Model (CIPEM) extracted a false confession from a suspect in the 2016 killing of Upper Hutt woman Lois Tolley and has been denounced by people working in the justice sector.
- Documents released after the Ombudsman criticised police’s handling of Stuff requests for information reveal other cases in which the technique was deployed or considered.
Anyone reading the Alan Hall case would be shocked at the blatant attempt to frame him for the crime.
You honestly get the perception after reading the reports that the cops simply rounded up the most vulnerable person near the crime and bullied him into answers that were used to frame him while withholding evidence that proved he didn’t do it.
They knew Alan couldn’t have committed the crime, but the simply framed him anyway because their interrogation techniques are manipulative and have little to do with catching the actual criminal and more to do with simply finding a prosecution.
With the recent litany of miscarriage of justice cases, seeing the inside of a corrupted police interrogation process happening in real time now suggests the Police have learned NOTHING from the mistakes and failures of the past, which is what we have been promised every time one of these miscarriages of justice get exposed!
This use of a deeply flawed interrogation model that fell over in court which the Police lied about is just extraordinary!
Detective Superintendent Tom Fitzgerald also was responsible for that other great questionable miscarriage of justice case, the murder of Olivia Hope and Ben Smart.
Based on what we currently have in front of us with this case and the recent miscarriages of justice cases of Peter Ellis, David Dougherty, Scott Watson, Teina Pora, David Lyttle, Mauha Fawcettand Alan Hall you get a terrible feeling that Police are not following the evidence in case, but are merely rounding up the most vulnerable suspects and bullying confessions out of them or twisting the evidence to fit the crime.
What is happening here is a can of very sick and toxic worms are being ripped open while the media’s attention is on the petty and vacant.
What is being exposed here is a rotten process that reeks of corruption. I once thought that maybe as much as 5% of the prison population might be innocent, after looking at what has been starkly revealed in this police interrogation process, I think that number might be closer to 30% of the prison population being innocent.
The scale of NZ Police corruption in using a flawed interview process that tricks people into framing themselves is gasp inducing and demands far more fear from Kiwis, especially when you see the extreme the Police went too hide and lie about the technique.
Sleepy Hobbits of muddle NuZilind are constantly distracted by ‘da Maaaaaaaaaoris is getting too much’ bullshit rather than demanding accountability from the Police Force who are actively framing people for crimes.
This country is so easily manipulated.
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There is so much crime in this country that any article criticising the police is like….yeah whatever.
Its because of people like you that NZ will probably becomes a police state, where people are arrested for so much as sneezing.
Nah, Jonzie’s ok; it was Prime Minister Ardern that threatened you with a little visit from Plod if you talked to your neighbour.
Nah that’s just sill Ann E.
Just another woman hater of Arderns success.
With Paula B as Chair of Pharmac, everybody well enough should be packing their bags and heading off-shore. Forget about the police, Luxon and co’s obfuscations about Kiwi’s health service have reached an all time low with this indescribable female being put into that job. If this is an April Fool’s day joke, they’re running a bit late, or has Halloween come early this year ?
Can Paula be trusted to keep personal details secure ? Thanks Seymour, thanks for showing us what we already knew about you, but hoped that we had it wrong.
Good! About fucking time!
So you don’t mind if people are banged up in prison for murders they didn’t commit.
But they can be trusted to keep registry details secure?
And follow procedures properly?
And not just cover up their failures & mistakes?
That’s why machine guns was taken off the list. Sorry. :/
Really?
https://www.guncity.com/9mm-israeli-uzi-blued-synthetic-c-cat-349521
It’s only people with their AR15s locked up that need security & you have already told us that it will protect you so as you keep repeating people get the service that they deserve.
People with Ar15s locked up already have Police approved security. Only criminals are able to use their AR15s for protection, and apparently that’s OK.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/kawhia-shooting-accused-sold-drugs-from-family-home-shot-at-intruders-crown-says/CWCHVBL2GEPUNYXEKFA7HH7AIQ/
That’s quite correct.
No private citizen is to use a firearm for security in NZ. You’re thinking of the US. Tell police you want a gun for self-defense and your license will be revoked. That’s the police’s job.
If you read the link, a drug dealer used his prohibited weapon to shoot & kill a number of people who were trying to rob him. He was found not guilty using self defence as as his legal defence. He probably would have lost his licence if he actually had one.
That would be because he was being charged for killing or attempting to kill, not in respect of his firearms possession.
Charges may yet be leveled over those, but it seems unlikely he will be granted a license, much less allowed to keep military style semi automatics.
How police corruption works and why the honest cops resist even considering the possibility a colleague might be corrupt.
https://youtu.be/UYUDC0sS-jg?si=gL9rZHGSG4USHnST
NZ Police have a persistent violent, misogynist, racist, macho, grudge holding culture to this day. There are some new age cops that advocate “modern policing” but it is just spin when you look at their racial profiling, using pepper and taser as compliance and torture devices rather than a substitute for lethal force–and hammering vulnerable mentally ill who may be acting out.
The blue bellies are often bent, and the detectives are always bent! Planting evidence, constructing circumstantial cases, bullying people in ‘interviews’ with no legal representation with the camera turned off, and lying in Court surely must be taught in closed sessions at Training School?
The plods are not called the filth for nothing.
Succinct and to the point TM.
Could not agree more!
TM that’s ridiculously absurd.
TM it seems obvious you have run foul of the law at some time such is your dislike.
I have never run foul of the law but I absolutely agree with TM because I have seen it.
I think they are thugs who mostly ignore the law because they think they are the law.
I have also seen them lie in court.
Simply jou the police then, and make the changes from within.
Martyn – The frontline Police are okay, its’ the Leadership of the Police which is a concern.
Well you’ve obviously NEVER had anything to do with them!
Shona – Not true…Living in South Auckland makes sure of that.
It does depend on which demographic you represent, the experience you might have. I generally have positive interactions & have found them helpful.
Anyone know anything about the officer involved shooting at the Christchurch Hospital Emergency Department on March 15th 2019? Of course you don’t & we plan to keep it that way.
??
Exactly, they even made people apologize for “imagining” it.
https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-christchurch/mosque-inquest-st-john-dispatcher-sorry-mistake
Sounds like a screw up by a dispatcher in a high pressure situation. Explains why Lucas was referred to as a ‘former’ dispatcher
On this one I would agree with you millsy .Some people who have never been in a high pressure situation can be very brave with their fingers.
You may wish to ask her if she understands the term “gaslighting”. You could also ask Adib Khanafer about his brush with death.
Actually what happened was a Police officer opened fire on what appeared to be an armed terrorist at the ED. Fortunately no one was injured, the SAS trooper didn’t return fire and the incident was quickly resolved. Everything has been nicely covered up, the media, inquiries have all pretended it didn’t happen, but the crowning glory was forcing that poor woman to apologize for actually doing her job.
It was also fortunate that the SAS trooper wasn’t a terrorist, as the lack skill shown by the Police officer (who did the right thing by opening fire) would have meant a lot more people would have killed.
Apparently one of the outcomes from the Royal Commission was better interagency communications, so hopefully lessons were learnt. They certainly learned some lessons about achieving an amazing cover up.
This photo is indicative only and shows how such confusion occurred. The actual terrorist looked more “official” and was actually mistaken for security services by some of those at the mosque. Similar photos of the SAS are available from a number of news stories on the day.
https://images.app.goo.gl/Q6n2wCdrvzUxunGD8
The timeline is here if you’re interested….
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/112105934/police-release-timeline-of-response-to-christchurch-terror-attacks
1:56pm Police told shots fired at Christchurch Hospital Emergency Department.
This is while Tarrant is heading to the Linwood Mosque and there were multiple reports of shots fired from around the hospital. By 2:06pm, it was confirmed no shots had been fired at the hospital. Not sure if you’ve ever had to clear a complex, multi-room building during an active shooter situation, but it does tend to take longer than 10 minutes, unless you know it’s just a cock up (which this was). We were just lucky no one died as a result.
I must be naive (many will agree) but I find it difficult to believe,disturbing in fact, that the Police would knowingly set out to frame and convict innocent people.
You probably think the Westminster System isn’t culturally elitist, the best we can do too and that the Crown still has meaningful value.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former-deputy-prime-minister-paula-bennett-appointed-new-chair-of-pharmac/IUJX3E7FPVAKVJKXP6CSQQVNUM/
You probably think Bennett got this position based on her skill set. More favours, more corruption. Bennett was known for soliciting herself from a young age.
So tell me BWV as a Pacific Islander yourself with tribal rule or even monarchy being literally culturally elitist in your homeland, you now live in someone else’s country and argue that representative democracy is culturally elitist.
Your internal wiring seems to be malfunctioning.
Aotearoa/NZ system of governance and judiciary was racist from its adoption after Te Tiriti was signed.
And will continue to be until it is replaced by something that is more inclusive of indigenous Pasifikan systems.
Every metric available says the present system of representative democracy has been gamed and broken.
Tinkering round the edges and making concessions won’t make a difference because it hasn’t.
Time for a review and reboot under a new one. What that is and how it looks ? I don’t know, but at the least lets have the conversation.
if you look at the system in the uk, especially the tories the system has a CLASS not a race bias…look at the number of caste based children of immigrants in the tory leadership.
ethnicity does not confer sainthood
Street level cops willingly go out and run utterly worthless (from a point of view of public safety) speed traps.
Sure, some of the low level guys have their heart in the right place- but how many of them blow the whistle on the corruption that is imposed from the top.
Of course they don’t blow the whistle you have to have seen it and been involved in it and you move up the ladder and then it is so ingrained in you you don’t feel you can do anything about it as you are a part of it.
Very true. Hey, fun fact. The ‘Rampart Scandal’ which inspired the hit TV show ‘The Shield’ (which LAPD threatened to sue the producers of if they mentioned ‘LAPD’ in the show, and which pretended that police corruption wasn’t widespread) was only exposed because a LAPD officer from another division was threatened with death and righteously defended himself.
There’s less geographic division here than in the US in our policing forces- so much more room for them to get away with corruption.
It’s called ‘noble cause corruption’.
It’s getting ‘a result’ of putting a villain away (sorry for sounding like 70s UK cop show) rather than letting evidence play out and admitting failure to find enough evidence.
I hope they don’t, however in complex cases they often seem to fixate on the “prime” suspect (who is odd or dodgy or both), to the exclusion of all other possibilities. NZ juries tend to convict people who the Police say are guilty. This is how David Bane & others end up serving considerably time in prison, especially as they never admit their guilt (being innocent) and thus find it hard to get parole.
Bob have you read about how Scott Watson’s sister was followed by two cops when taking her kids to school and they saying behind her, you know we will get him, time you told the truth……………..
Absolute shit.
As others have said they fixate on someone and despite numerous other things they are aware of they nail the person.
Always have been and will be stooges for the Crown and the Westminster system.
A.I robocops are the future…
you forgot Scott Watson.
No he didn’t, he just mentioned the victims instead.
Mr Watson was fitted up for sure. Some cops like John Hughes, Rob Pope and Bruce Hutton made careers out of “closing a case” by ANY means necessary.
And it all has consequences for those caught up in it-such as Water Taxi op Guy Wallace who was manipulated into ID’ing Scott Watson with sneaky line up and photographic techniques. He regretted it and later committed suicide after having a meltdown and offending himself.
Wanna know about corruption. Corruption is appointing a ex minister of msd, ex solo mum, failed television presenter and failed real estate agent as the new chairman of Pharmac. Is she really the best person they could find? Hell no. Its payback for the donations she solicited from her real estate mates.
So being f a solo mum rules you out of a job does it .WHY Do you know her children .Did she do a good job .
Real Estate is a tough business not many survive and many have giving it a go and left just like me.
TV jobs are precarious at the best of time and there are only so many roles .She was a good in the show I saw .
I wish her the best in her new role
I agree Trevor.
Kim – Yes to all.
Kim. Whatever, it’s a hell of a kick in the teeth for the hard working well-qualified medical professionals struggling to keep an ailing health service going, to have this ghastly, IMO, person put in this position. Handmaiden, IMO, of sickly Bill English, who, IMO, wants New Zealanders deprived of a decent free national health service, and who sees everybody, IMO, as economic units whose role is to help politicians maintain their hold over the prols.
Or is this a box ticking exercise ? I doubt it. At the very least somebody with pharmaceutical and business qualifications, or even other established professional qualifications, should be the chair of such a body, and certainly not a questionable, IMO, estate agent. Once again the charlatans of Bowen Street may be jeopardising the physical and mental health of the citizens who they are meant to be representing, and it’s quite a shocking thing to be springing on a Sunday afternoon.
We know that this government is child-averse, but they’re looking more and more people-averse also, IMHO. Do you think that they actually went out looking for a well-qualified person ? I don’t.
That isn’t corruption under the Crimes Act. I wouldn’t have appointed Bennett either but there’s no corruption.
If it isn’t it fucking should be.
Kim. Maybe nepotism. I wouldn’t have appointed Bennett either; think this is all John Key’s fault.
Martyn, NGL, I thought you were being serious until i read you mention Scott Watson…LOL
With his connections to the 4th Reich & a series of murders on the West Coast, Watson isn’t exactly a good candidate for a lot of sympathy.
Isn’t it the water taxi guy that turned out to have the history of sex crimes? The guy whose evidence led everyone up the garden path?
I have no idea. Scott Watson definitely has a “colourful” past & some seriously dodgy associations.
He may well have – but the water taxi guy (now deceased) looks like the odds on favorite for the actual malefactor in the Sounds Murders. Fitting people up isn’t much of an investigative process.
Having dodgy associates doesn’t make Scott Wilson guilty and there was very little evidence of anything other than the victims disappeared & were never seen again. It probably should have gone in the too hard basket rather than force the “evidence” to fit.
It remains a very mixed institution. We have excellent local police here, who’d rather flash their lights at us than ticket us. But try and sell drugs and you’ll meet the dark end of their enthusiasms.
Just accept it, I’ve been everywhere. I worked with a couple of ex-cops at a market research company in the norts — they always knew the straightest route to where you wanted to get. No corner could not be shaved off. Considerable idea of ‘omerta’ as well from them. Something kept us from Ozzie police corruption somehow.
any criminological concept from the usa is automatically suspect….remember waterboarding is not torture