Oh FFS…
Transgender athletes could be banned from publicly funded women’s sport under new Government policy
The Government is threatening to withhold millions of dollars of public funding from New Zealand sports bodies if they do not comply with a push to separate transgender athletes from grassroots competitions.
The hardline and potentially divisive policy from the Government sets out the agenda to “ensure publicly funded sporting bodies support fair competition that is not compromised by rules relating to gender”.
The policy is led by New Zealand First, whose sport and recreation spokesman Andy Foster says it is “about fairness and safety in sport for women”.
However, transgender athlete and two-time national champion mountain biker Kate Weatherly fears it will lead to athletes being forced into men’s competitions or sidelined completely.
…this isn’t social policy, it’s culture war revenge fantasy!
Okay, okay, okay.
Let’s back the truck up here.
Have the Trans Community and their woke allies caused enormous fucking damage to our wider Left movement?
Oh God yes!
Do I think it’s insane that we have ripped the progressive movement to pieces with vicious cancel culture social media Lynch mobs for an issue that impacts 1% of the population?
Sure do.
Did ‘Pure Trans Joy’ at the Posie Parker fiasco probably cost us the election?
Didn’t help.
Is Shaneel Lal a deep cover agent for Winston Peters?
Well, they did manage to drive tens of thousands into the arms of our political enemies.
Is it all a tad hysterical and drama queenish?
Look at this nonsense…
Student’s defamation case against academic accused of being ‘transphobic bigot’ thrown out by judge
A civil case against a senior academic accused of being a “transphobic bigot” and “defaming” a student in an email to colleagues has been labelled “weak” and thrown out by a judge.
He said the student’s version of events “is not credible” and they had themselves made “extravagant defamatory claims” about the academic during the process.
…Look, the woke dogma around trans issues has generated a radioactive debate they have fuelled themselves and has been politically alienating to an enormous group of former supporters – H-O-W-E-V-E-R.
We can dislike the Woke’s tactics and argue why pure temple identity politics will cost us the election, but let’s also be very clear that we as a society and community respect the Trans community’s right to exist and function with all the agency that every single one of us takes for granted.
That there are women who believe they are men and men who believe they are women and people who believe they are both and people who believe they are neither is as uncontroversial within the spectrum of our species as the range of hair, eye and skin colour.
Certainly there are issues around biological women’s spaces and those issues need discussion in a good faith environment, but threatening to remove public funding form community groups that have Trans players is fucking crazy and cruel.
Yes discussion about gender is triggering to everyone.
Yes new ideas about identity can rock people on their heels, but to purposely start erasing citizens from their public spaces is fucking unforgivable in a liberal progressive democracy like NZ!
We aren’t talking about professional sports, we are talking grass roots publicly funded community sport. The power of Sport to channel the inclusive energy of human beings is a vital cultural building block, banning people who don’t fit in to the binary would be such a terrible attack on them as individuals and a real shameful move by the rest of NZ.
Yes the Trans Community and their hysterical middle class woke wanker allies have made this debate radioactive, but to allow the State to put on its jackboot and kick the Trans community in the face is an utterly unacceptable move no matter the provocation.
This is an IDF level disproportionate response to the issue.
We can’t allow public funds to be withheld under these sorts of disgusting standards!
FFS – this is ugly and dangerous and I don’t believe I have to point that out!
Sport has more mana than this.
We as a people have more mana than this.
Feral culture war revenge fantasises are not who we should be.
This hard right racist Government is quickly becoming very authoritarian and willing to use its power against the people with every passing week.
New Zealand Aotearoa deserves a State that helps the people and builds the nation, not one that tears everything down and punishes those their voters despise.
We allow this hard right racist Government to hurt the gangs, then the prisoners, then the trans, then the beneficiaries, then the renters, then the workers, then the environment and then you.
There is a whiff of fascism here Comrades.
We should all be ashamed by this move.
Sport is bigger than this petty bigotry and so should we.
This move belittles us into being a more spiteful and nasty country than we really are.
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Male and female athletes and others maybe?
I tried sticking up for these cock suckers for years they just hate men. Just can’t help them because that’s evidence of the patriarchy.
“but to purposely start erasing citizens from their public spaces”
Heh, ironic, but anyway.
I personally believe a ban is too far. If safety is the issue then require safety plans/rules, maybe setting standards for them. Cycling is a good example, I can’t fathom what the safety issues might be.
The alternative is not accepting state funding. I don’t know why we publicly fund sport anyway. Fund fitness programmes, fund recreation centres, but funding sporting bodies? Eh.
Go on Wokesters – go die in a ditch for the right of trans sportswomen to compete against cis-sportswomen.
Ada. Correction. “ Trans sportspersons”, not “ trans sportswomen.” You’re either a woman, or you ain’t, regardless of what unicorn riders and gender-bender bureaucrats may opine.
Funny how there is never any debate over trans men participating in male sports. its probably because there aren’t any. That fact tells you all you need to know about the biological advantage of trans women competing against cis women.
I think you struck the nail squarely on the head with your comment. Personally i believe that sports like archery or target shooting would be ok but rugby or judo or almost any other contact sport should never allow biological men to play against women. With the possible exception of post surgery trans in weight group divided sports could maybe have a discussion around it, with testosterone limits being an obvious requirement. But most contact sports codes should just say no.
This!
The whole point of separate comps for men and women comes down to the physical advantage of biological men over biological women, and where there isn’t any advantage there isn’t any need for separation.
Sport is just one activity where men claiming to be women are pushing women out. If trans insist on playing sport let them compete against themselves not women.
More serious is men claiming to be women taking over and excluding women from rape crisis centres and getting admitted to women’s jails creating new centres of rape crisis.
Trans need their own communities and legal protections, but not at the expense of women.
Women already have a shitty time in the patriarchal capitalist system from female infanticide to sex trafficking, without a bunch of delusional men their oppression.
The reason that the right around Peters and Seymour are acting acting to to keep men and women in their place is because they have the political power to police the patriarchal family.
Women have the completely opposite reason to these patriarchal politicians for their actions, they are defending their sex-class rights to free speech, assembly, and their private spaces, as hard won defences against the patriarchal violence endemic in our society.
Women as an historical sex-class have a fundamental right to act in their best interests, to get rid of the patriarchy, including men claiming to be women, and the rotten capitalist system that sustains it.
Dave+Brown. Also, very lucrative university scholarships are available for competitive sports persons, where male’s testosterone and superior physical strength can unfairly ace it over real women, just like it can in changing rooms, kids’ toilets, prison cells, hospital wards, etcetera.
Here we go again. I get the sporting advantage issue but what the hell does the changing room, kids toilets comment mean? What’s the obsession with painting transgender as rapists and paedo’s?
FFS Dave Brown….have you apologized to all women you meet/work with for being a man?, You must be an an embarrassment to your family.
What an absolute sorry excuse of an adult human male lol
I agree. I don’t think NZ First, or most right wingers, really care that much about women’s best interests. If they did, they wouldn’t have removed the Fair Pay Agreement, which strongly impact women in low paid and precarious employment eg the lower ranks of hospitality. In patriarchal systems women are a sex-class that is exploited as a resource – and that is very clear when we look at some of the lowest paid and most precarious types of work, as well as being particularly exploited in sex trafficking, prostitution and surrogacy.
pesonally i’d be interested how many trans people (not pink haired ‘supporters’) i wonder if we aren’t making a big deal out of a small issue
Could not agree more. You would think there were armies of trans people getting into sport. Is that really the case? Do we have actual numbers to support the level of hand wringing?
Taking sport seriously is seriously bad for your mental health.
It’s supposed to be for fun.
Indeed. And also sport is to be encouraged for health reasons regardless of the level. Being fun helps to make it healthy.
However, research has shown that there are various barriers to young females participating in sport at all levels that are different for those of males.
Sport NZ’s website has evidence that boys grow in confidence in sport in their teenage years, while girls confidence tends to decline. Girls tend to be more sensitive to judgements about their performance and looks, and need sport to be fun in or order to feel safe and supported.
Other research shows that women can be afraid of assault and abuse in and around sporting venues, and that being in an all-women group makes them feel more supported and less likely to be judged. Also, women only spaces such as changing rooms and showers can help them feel safer and more comfortable.
This Stuff article is about how women’s rugby players in NZ have had difficulties with having to share men’s showers and changing rooms.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/women-in-sport/131783634/rugby-whine-celebrate-their-own-space-showers-and-privacy-after-years-of-sharing-mens-changing-room
” Sport is bigger than this petty bigotry and so should we.”
” This move belittles us into being a more spiteful and nasty country than we really are.”
Bomber not just sport but the relentless , ferocious cruel attack being waged against the working poor including children whose rights that have eroded under this ” the market will decide ” economy of LINO and NACT.
There is never ever any debate about that.
It just shows how inept our MP’s and our policy makers are in not finding a solution to this whole trans diversion that is being used to divert attention away from many trans people who are economically marginalised , penalised the same way before identity became such a controversial issue.
This whole debate shows how incredibly easy it is to manipulate a population using propaganda in the 21st century.
But the Hobbitts do have form given recent history.
I have seen people on twitter claim trans women have a biological advantage in chess… Transphobia is a mental disorder
My question to Matua Winnie, what sports team should intersex athletes compete on?
Raisin intersex is completely different from trans. It is relatively rare and in the vast majority of cases, easily identified as either male or female
Trans people are also rare compared to the rest of the population, you don’t get to make a big fuss about one minority group and then handwave away another because “durr hurr not enuf of em”
Oh intersex. They’re not strong enough to play in male sports. But trannies are strong enough to play with the boys.
Not speaking for Matua but if you are in possession of a penis you play with the boys and if you are in possession of a vulva then you play with the girls.
So we’re gonna have a genital inspector for sports?
I joke but that was actually something proposed for children’s sports in Ohio…
A lot of elite female athletes, internationally want to go back to sex testing in women’s sports. All it requires is a simple mouth swab.
Martyn – Albert Park Riot…remember? Many Kiwis were not happy with the outcomes of the so called peaceful gathering of the trans-community…
For ever, our white christian society culture has required people to conform to its very rigid stereo types, simple black and white with no shades of grey. Recent years have seen a revolution of those shades of grey exerting their right to be who they are. Physical sports are obviously in the front line of this revolution, but just as para-athletes have been able to work with a range of limitations, surely other sports should be allowed to work through these issues without being threatened with heavy handed government funding threats.
But able body athletes cannot compete in para-sports just by self identifying.
Ultimately the Trans issue for me, breaks down to one of objectivity.
The assertions of contemporary gender theory are just that – not proof.
In every other field of public policy, objective data is demanded. But for some reason we are to abandon this standard, and accept unsupported assertions. I am astonished that educated people swallowed it for a moment.
So we have mob violence, and patently untenable assertions. So far, Trans argument is simply not persuasive.
You have provided a good discussion on a sensitive topic and mostly supported my view that it is all in the mind. You only need to look at the comments section here or on other sites to see that many people have issues with the mind but because they have others agreeing with them they ignore any differing views. While I believe that truth is available not everyone wants to know it so we need to be able to live peacefully with them, issues regarding a competitive advantage in sport or any privacy gender related concerns need to be rationally discussed and the trans community need to respect the boundaries of other people.
In most areas of life, it does not matter how people self ID gender-wise, except a few crucial ones where sex matters – and sport is a major one. Community sport is where elite sports people begin playing. Elite sports & community sports are not that separate.
There are multiple differences between male and female bodies that are significant in most sports – speed and strength are the main ones. Women have different skeleto-muscular structures from men that for instance mean they are more prone to ACL injuries and concussion. The impact from a male body, even without direct head contact, can cause a female’s brain to bounce around in her skull.
There’s a load more physical reasons why male and female sports are segregated.
The main underlying problem we have is the sex self ID law. That’s maybe where there should be changes to clarify the difference between sex- set at conception, and immutable throughout life – is different from gender identity. People should be free to ID as they wish, but they can’t expect anyone to agree that they are not their innate sex. And bodies matter in sport.
Women’s sport has struggled to get recognition and funding in contrast to male sports. We don’t need males entering women’s sports and making it even harder for females to get places and recognition for their achievements – whether it’s in so-called community sport (a lot of which is highly competitive), or the elite sports that are fed into by community sports.
How can women’s sports be kept female only, without some means of actively being able to maintain those boundaries, if not through financial means – either fines or funding? What other robust deterrent could be used?
Weatherley made it clear in his comments in the NZ Herald article, that the issue for him is not safety or fairness, which he is dismissive about, but it’s about validating his allegedly ‘true self”: ie his subjective and unverifiable belief that he is a woman. The gap between male and female physical capabilities is far greater than the weight classes within sex segregated sports that Weatherly refers to.
And where are the trans IDed females who play in sport, because we’re not seeing any number of females IDing as men, competing on an equal footing in male sports?
Nah, mate. Time for the silly games to end. Women(Females) don’t have a dick.
I had a girlfriend once who accused me of being trans.
I was so pissed off, I packed up all her things and left.
Nothing distracts the protestfiles like a good trans in sport debate.