Budget 2023: Massive Defence spend to see personnel receive ‘biggest pay increase in over a decade’
The Government is hoping to address attrition in the Defence Force with a major pre-Budget funding announcement that will deliver the “biggest pay increase in over a decade” for personnel.
As Newshub has previously reported, personnel are leaving New Zealand’s Defence Force in droves and Defence Minister Andrew Little has called retention his “number one priority”.
Little on Monday announced a $419 million boost to Defence’s payroll, with personnel expected to receive pay increases of between $4000 and $15,000 depending on their rank, role and service branch. This will start from July 1.
This money will pay soldiers more and hope to keep them in the military which is fine and dandy, but this doesn’t in any way shape or form prepare NZ for the military challenges in front of us.
We need to increase Military GDP spending to 3%. Interestingly Labour have quietly ratcheted GDP military spending from just over 1% to just under 2%.
I believe that the climate crisis means we need a vastly larger military to cope with civil disasters and if we are attempting to distance ourselves from China and America, we need to make a decision to dramatically lift what we spend on the military for purely defensive capacity.
How would we go about defending the realm of NZ and all our economic exclusive zone?
“We will no longer be a political football in the wars of imperial powers. We will no longer act as a Pacific spy base for the Five-Eyes Alliance”
…this is an intelligent proposal and alongside our independent foreign policy should be the bindings of a strong national identity.
On ANZAC Day, while we remember those who fought and died, we also remember conscientious objectors, diplomats, activists, artists and all who have worked to prevent war and save lives.
As the drumbeat for war slowly echoes across the Pacific, we need collective courage for Peace first and self defence second like never before.
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A very small step in the right direction but nowhere near enough, especially as low pay is embedded in the publics perception of the military, which will make recruiting very difficult. And there appears no pathway to ensure pay rates keep rising.
Orions retired early and patrol vessels sold off because no one could man them is especially poor management by this government, and the previous. That and driving staff out by using them in the MIQ’s!
Watch this. Seriously. Hilarious AND rage inducing. Australian-centric but hey. Chippy just sorted that particular money siphoning speed bump out for the hyper riche neoliberal, Kiwi-As scum bags hiding in Australia with our money, Aye Boys.
Honest Government Ad | Reserve Bank of Australia
https://youtu.be/DNxXRigHri4
Why don’t we have Honest Government ads in New Zealand?
Because political satire is cancelled in NZ. Our woke are too woke to joke and the right wingers ban comedy too. Remember the video about planet key that the electoral commission banned.
I wasn’t talking about satire 😉
Drones, fighter jets and frigates is basically a dollar for dollar compromise. For a billion dollars you’ll get about 4 drones, or 6 fighters or 1 frigate. In the Maritime patrol domain is rather have fighters and drones because of increased utility. Drones can’t board ships or or keep enemy ships and aircraft occupied.
With fighter jets they don’t really have to fight. Say you’ve got a friendly platoon of soliders conducting operations against an enemy force, our fighters can keep enemy ships and aircraft busy while they use up all thier petrol. It’s a long way from home.
I’m sorry but this is ridiculous.
Aside from an invasion, when do you propose NZ would derive utility from a fighter Jet?
The US, UK, France and Russia are about the only countries in the world set up doctrinally and equipped for expeditionary missions.
Even China’s ability to project force is highly questionable.
So what would they do with jets? Slap some pontoons on them?
Air show
Bring back ANZUS.
The spending is actually 1.5% of GDP. This is an increase from the 1.0% pre 2018 recorded by the Treasury. But the reason was due to a change in accounting processes, basically including the capital spent as part of the annual spend. This brings our treatment of defence spending in line with NATO. Prior to 2018, only a capital charge was included (7% of the capital), not the actual capital.
We were doing ourselves a disservice compared to other nations which use the NATO system of accounting for defence expenditure. In short, since 2000 we have been spending 1.5% on the NATO measure, not the 1.0% of Treasury. In the 1990’s, when we had the Skyhawks, it was 2.0% on the NATO measure.
I think there is a case to increase to 2.0%, but not 3%. I will leave the reasons to another comment. For those interested go to Line of Defence for my articles on this.
I think it’s a mistake to focus on one enemy as some sort of sales pitch (excuse the pun).
We don’t know who’s going to attack us. It could be some lone wolf for all we know.
When the Australian Keating government back in the 90’s was issuing it’s defence white paper China was a no body. Yes they could field massive divisions but that was it. They had no ships or airforce.
Who knows America could break out onto a civil war for all we know.
We get to choose who the Leader of the military is voting is no game. The Ukraine War proves that every western leader can’t do anything. Leaders of the military they are not.
The winner of the Ukraine war will be in the lead of the rules based order and New Zealand is a fucking nobody.
The Ukraine war proves the effectiveness of man portable anti tank missiles and anti air missiles, drones and big bloody artillery we need more of them. Frigates corvettes and fighters. 5% ought to be the goal.
We have a hard time retaining personnel, can’t properly crew our current ships, so greatly expanding our armed forces isn’t something we are currently capable of, even if we had the money & desire to do so.
So if it’s not a money and desire to do so then what is it?
Most money spent on defence, is dead money, it makes no real contribution to NZ society or its’ peoples’ well-being. Most equipment purchased, is expensive, ages quickly and is often obsolete, if & when it’s needed (which is generally never). A serious discussion needs to be had to determine what we want or need from our armed forces.
Do we want an independent strike force that doesn’t require other nations logistical or air support to operate in the field? Do we want to supply highly trained mercenaries to other peoples’ wars? Do we want to supply “bridges & schools” peace keepers? “Centre of mass & head shots” or “hearts & minds”? Do we want a rapid response civil defence force, able to rapidly respond to disasters at home or in the Pacific? Do we want a deep water fleet to antagonise our trading partners in the South China Sea? Or do we want a fleet to protect our coasts and fishing resources?
We can’t afford the best of everything and realistically we don’t need it. It’s all about deciding what we actually need and prioritising. Defence is important and luckily New Zealand is relatively easy to defend against invasion, we are very remote and have a very large moat. Our country is also quite rugged and major supply routes are easily cut (even during peace time). Also we have nothing of value that foreign nationals can’t already buy. Land, businesses, politicians, they are all available at very reasonable prices. New Zealanders need to defend their homeland, but shouldn’t be killing & dying in other peoples’ wars in foreign countries.
In the last two hundred years New Zealand has been invaded by a super power (Britain) been attacked by at least three state actors times and lone wolfs many times in recent times none of whome was named China but here we are.
We don’t create defence forces to defend against hypothetical what ifs in a vegan mummy blogger cook out singing trans joy hyms.
Defence is very simple it says you cross this imaginary line and we will thump you. That’s what it means when we say protecting the rules based order.
There are commercial contracts , resources, international standards that has to be maintained.
When a soldier joins the military you have to not only be willing to kill enemy combatants but civilians as well. That is war.
The left wing component comes in the form of utility. Frigates and fighter jets has to be more than just putting an effect on a zone. They have to be able to identify threats and react proportionally.
No other organisation can enter a battle space, environmental disaster or what ever like The NZDF can because we don’t want commercial or civilian organisations getting thier hands on military grade technology.
Your hypothetical scenarios are just insane. They’re not worth listening to.
Er what? Try parking a ship near Ukraine or doing a fly over the country, and see what happens. Mostly likely you are dead in the mangled remains of your millions of dollars worth of trash. In a modern war most equipment is trash waiting to happen, with meat waiting to be ground. Try invading New Zealand now it’s no longer defended with stone age weapons. Logistics alone will defeat you, if not another interested party will certainly make your job a lot harder, see Ukraine again.
I didn’t propose any hypothetical scenarios, insane or otherwise, I suggested our nation needs to work out what it actually wants defence wise. Are to defend our own people & country, or do we provide our SAS to be the US’s crack stormtroopers to kill those foreign devils in their own homes & countries?
Some say our country came of age at Gallipoli, so maybe our role is to slaughter brown people in their own countries, to further the aims of the empires that control us. Do we get a say in that? Did we vote for that? Are we happy with that? Australia is happy to be the US’s deputy sheriff, are we happy to remain the faithful sidekick that just goes along with what our master decides?
Contrary to popular belief the public doesn’t get to decide what capabilities the defence force requires. You can come up with all the fancy reasoning you like.
It’s to say that just because people are poor, doesn’t give them a right to say what type of force and structure NZDF out to be.
It’s a type of recognition. As soon as the SAS start doing there drills everyone’s like ooooooooh that’s the SAS. Just learn your place.
At least “fancy reasoning” makes sense, I often have a hard time understanding your comments. Lack of meds? Anyway aren’t you in Australia now, so should you still be commenting on NZ politics?
Just conceed.
It is always embarrassing when the NZ airforce planes fail and they seem to be poorly maintained.
Jacinda Ardern’s plane breaks down in Antarctica
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/477619/jacinda-ardern-s-plane-breaks-down-in-antarctica
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s plane breaks down in Australia
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/114379235/jacinda-ardern-stuck-in-australia-after-plane-breaks-down
Jacinda Ardern’s air force plane breaks down as third official contracts Covid on US trip
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/128809835/jacinda-arderns-air-force-plane-breaks-down-as-third-official-contracts-covid-on-us-trip
It is always the big ticket items that they spend all the money on, then cut corners on maintaining the other equipment.
Same with a lot of the hospitals, government spend on capital equipment, but then it sits idle when broken or doesn’t have the experienced staff to operate them.
Meanwhile gangs up 13% https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300464553/gang-numbers-have-nearly-doubled-in-five-years-police-say
Clearly something wrong with NZ public policy that enables gangs and illegal activity while being perceived as a poor employer, at NZ defence. (Going from bloke culture to woke culture is not the way to do it).
At the end of the day why be a nurse, teacher, police office, soldier, on living wages when you can just commit fraud, steal, have a tax free business or grift on the identity brigade on a 6 figures plus salary with no expectations of having to achieve anything for as long as possible.
NZ can’t even execute vacant possession properly on seized crown assets!
Waterfront gang properties seized by Crown fail to sell. What now?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300867954/waterfront-gang-properties-seized-by-crown-fail-to-sell-what-now
Gangster’s Paradise: Inside Head Hunters’ luxury overseas trip of a lifetime
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/gangsters-paradise-inside-head-hunters-luxury-overseas-trip-of-a-lifetime/HJKXUDNWLFDLXDHEFQV4BVS6BA/
National outraged after Mongrel Mob rehab scheme Kahukura gets $2.75 million in funding
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/national-outraged-after-mongrel-mob-rehab-scheme-kahukura-gets-2-75-million-in-funding.html
Covid border exemptions for gang leaders….. etc.
No arrests for traffic violations if you are a gang member etc.
Gangs are outside the law as NZ, and thinking hug a crim, and a slap on the wrist is working doesn’t seem to be working – but it is driving out people in essential jobs who struggle to live in NZ these days with the next crim just around the corner – one wrong move at the gas station and it could be all over for anybody – you work hard, but your car, house, office is burgled or bank account emptied.
People come to NZ, commit crimes and then make videos about it, celebrating illegal culture here is the way to make money!
Punjabi singer gets home detention for drivers’ licences bribes
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/365583/punjabi-singer-gets-home-detention-for-drivers-licences-bribes
The there are truck accidents practically every week, while waka kotahi lower the speed limits to laughable levels blaming this – not elephant in the room, many people can come to NZ and then get behind the wheel with fake documents.
Unfortunately making an honest living in NZ, does not seem to be the way to success and social media and the media is full of stories of people making a fortune illegally getting home detention.
William Yan AKA Bill Liu to keep NZ citizenship despite money laundering conviction
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/william-yan-aka-bill-liu-to-keep-nz-citizenship-despite-money-laundering-conviction/YMYXI6UP6MG6UTYBNQO2SLRGJE/?c_id=1&objectid=11905478
If people do work at the police, the culture seems to be – they are above the law or they have outsources so many police functions to third parties, that there is little security anymore.
Auckland police officer who destroyed own drink driving evidence sentenced to eight months’ home detention
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-cop-who-destroyed-own-drink-driving-evidence-sentenced-to-eight-months-home-detention/WYXQZEUGABA6PJ26BC5SADF3B4/
More lucrative to become a immigration advisor / PI who works for convicted murderers.
Auckland police won’t prosecute ex-detective turned private eye over illegal surveillance
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-police-wont-prosecute-ex-detective-turned-private-eye-over-illegal-surveillance/SQXRDDXZEKXHS6QDGKG3OFGXTE/
Until NZ manages to incentivise honest labour and professional jobs and crack down on the growing illegal activity everywhere, then less and less Kiwis wants to put their life on the line, working for NZ government.
Probably many of their recruits are spies or wanting training to move on, so they can survive with additional income.
saveNZ a fabulous description of the current Labour Government.
To be fair the rot started with National, but Labour/Greens make have made it worse, by pushing a woke ideology element to everything that is sucking up all the funding with extreme woke committees everywhere throwing money at the most woke grifters in NZ, and stopping freedom of speech and spinning too many bad decisions.
Hear,hear.
You are silly.
I think there are good people in the government you just can’t do anything from the outside we just want them to follow the rules. Regulate, regulate regulate.
Plus tax,tax,tax.
tax,tax,tax the middle class…. ignore crims, people making tax free fortunes here, overseas based big business …
What about NZ based big business?
Yes of course, there are not many NZ based, NZ owned, big business left, and those standing are often rotten to the core too and kept alive by tax payer subsidies, ‘low’ company tax and short term polluting actions.
My understanding is that “NZ’ companies like Fletchers are actually considered overseas owned companies although the NZ politicians like to fool themselves they are NZ which is not the case.
In addition if a person who has NZ citizenship, but wasn’t born in NZ, doesn’t mostly live in NZ and their only ties here is NZ assets which are run to be exported out, can they really be called NZ companies or is much of NZ big business a technicality?
“Singh comes from a hospitality background, running a chain of restaurants and two hotels, but he and his business partner decided to invest in property after attending a seminar.
They ran into strife when a different lender backed out at the last minute leaving the pair short $13 million.”
The big question is, how does a person in hospitality where hotel managers are only paid living wages, then be in a position to be buying up millions of dollars in land, and developing it into 100 houses?
Next question, is a person who is trained in hospitality and can’t read contracts very well, really the right person to be building 100 houses and will the taxapayers have to bail out if they are not built properly (yes via council) ?
NZ MSM don’t bother asking any normal questions, are making out this person to be the victim when he pulls out of a loan, and is expected to pay a penalty that was included in his contract. (Although I agree it is excessive, but judging from the risk they were taking in dealing with this type of person needing millions at the last minute and not from a development background, maybe justified in not expecting him to continue with the loan?)
Auckland man says $627,699 fee for property loan he didn’t borrow
is ‘unfair’
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300872711/auckland-man-says-627699-fee-for-property-loan-he-didnt-borrow-is-unfair
It’s weird the fortunes being made from new migrants in the hospitality field https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119602924/liquor-store-owners-planned-mansion-while-company-probed IRD nowhere to be seen.
But we need more low wage migrants!!!!!!!
The Ponzi is needed to pay for the mansions and new projects!
Maybe defence as well as being used in civil defence can run some IRD ops for the country and get us out of a hole of debt!
In Italy, since the mafia don’t actually file IRD returns the government just look out for excessive cars and projects and then investigate how they got the money if they pay no tax or are on benefits there!
As Italy Cracks Down on Tax Cheats, the Wealthy Are Ditching Their Porsches
https://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2109279,00.html
Perhaps instead of drivers at 5pm targeting the workers, I would suggest road blocks at 10am around the North Shore and West Auckland where the Mercedes and other vehicles come out after the rift raft workers congestion clears post 9:30am in their luxury vehicles. Might want to check how many passports and identities many people operating in NZ now seem to have. The Canadian suitcase murderer now claiming refugee status with his wealthy family in NZ seemed to evade all checks to let them into NZ as they changed their name to get here.
Or tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. Then poor health, education, infrastructure, and standard of living . But thanks for the tax cuts National.
You can have all the rules you want, but if no one enforces them, they aren’t worth anything.
Aotearoa New Zealand has already bested one super power on the battlefield. Re emerged as a highly organised outfit in successive wars.
Anti defence force activist would rather NZDF remain invisible butnto get them back visible again start poking at the rules based order.
The NZDF is still what it is. Don’t get it fucked up.
Agree, NZ has regulation but no or uneven enforcement of key areas like monopolies and crime. They send the wrong messages constantly and never check if anybody is lying and has false paperwork.
Now we are at the extent that people are faking being doctors, presenting fake documents to the court who then lets them off, and getting away with it!
The fake doctor was only caught because a person at uni recognised him as the person who illegally worked on cadavers at the med school and was working at Middlemore!
Alleged imposter doctor used fake documents to get off driving charge
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300660195/alleged-imposter-doctor-used-fake-documents-to-get-off-driving-charge
Otherwise like all the other crims, few checks any documents in NZ, never an example made if their documents prove incorrect (environment court for example, applicants submit lies and misleading information and they will grant the consent, then it all goes wrong, but nobody goes back and cancels the consent and fines those involved).
Because of this lack of enforcement of lying in NZ, there is not precedent for punishing this type of crime and thus all the court precedents are about giving in to criminals and poor documents in appeals, not actually going back and prosecuting to get a precedent. They could have done that with Pike River, CTV building, Samsudeen and many other criminals who have lied in NZ courts and immigration to get what they want. When found the lies, nothing happens, encouraging more to do it.
I mean with the case of the fake doctor, if the NZ courts can’t check fake documents presented to them as evidence to get off, then something is wrong. With Samsudeen, they knew that the documents were fake, and he wanted to kill and he wanted to leave NZ, they should have deported him back to Sri Lanka, and stop the horrific attacks on a lot of innocent woman – or like OZ – hold people in another location offshore so that NZ is protected while they process the claims.
The other terrorist Tarrant, should not have been granted weapons license when he entered NZ – and he only had internet references which NZ police failed to check as all migrants are wonderful, trusting people better than lazy Kiwis (sarcasm)! If they had bothered to notice the red flags when the gun club dobbed him in, they it might have been prevented.
As it is, with the lack of enforcement, you feel that Pike River, CTV building, fake doctors and other professionals in big and small NZ firms, Tarrant and Samsudeen are also likely to happen again here. The CTV building was one of NZ biggest disasters but they have learn’t nothing. Many people in NZ engineering firms are fake, unqualified, qualified but don’t know what they are doing or under qualified. It has become a laughing stock.
Unqualified engineer who lied on CV guilty of 38 fraud charges, fined for ethics breach
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300587541/unqualified-engineer-who-lied-on-cv-guilty-of-38-fraud-charges-fined-for-ethics-breach
Concrete safety investigator ‘surprised nobody had been killed’
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/402908/concrete-safety-investigator-surprised-nobody-had-been-killed
Multi-storey building flaws ‘almost the norm’
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/340396/multi-storey-building-flaws-almost-the-norm
Apartment complex hit with $32.8m repair bill
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/331505/apartment-complex-hit-with-32-point-8m-repair-bill
Council unable to identify possible defective buildings in capital
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/403417/council-unable-to-identify-possible-defective-buildings-in-capital
Mainzeal loan generated hundreds of millions in wealth, court hears
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/375760/mainzeal-loan-generated-hundreds-of-millions-in-wealth-court-hears
Sam, do you think Nationals 3 yearly bribe of tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts would help. Ater all tax cuts would net Luxon $18,000 a year whilst those that need it the most will get $104 a year? Does this indicate National are for “all” New Zealanders or is that just the top 1 % wealthy?
This is exactly what you will get with a right bloc Government. The gap they originally created they will widen beyond repair. The previous corrupt National government will never ever be matched or beaten when it comes to the destruction of New Zealand’s democracy. “Tax cuts for the rich, poverty for the poor”, National’s new campaign slogan.
You got that wrong ADQ the Labour Government for the last,almost 6 years,have made the wealthy more wealthy and the poor more poor.
Your math, like your posts are way out of whack, even your mother would be ashamed.
So, defense spending has quietly increased in recent times and now it needs to be increased by half as much again – during this current dire era of rising costs, economic volatility and poorly funded public services, namely healthcare. This is just slapping the NZ public in the face with callous disregard, as our government simply follows the dictates of our unofficial leader, the USA, by beefing up military spending at their insistence. Meanwhile, no push back from the opposition, no push back from the media and no say from the New Zealand public – this is why I believe our political system, ditto the entire West, is broken.
We need to fight alright, but it is not only for peace, we need to fight to help correct the broken political system…
Ron Mark the only recent defense minister who new what he was doing and what was required.
There is no way the U.S. would allow this to happen without intervention. Trying to save N.S.A. Ironsand Station in Marlborough would surely be reason enough to launch some sort of regime change operation, not to mention any military plans related to the coming Sino-American War (the nuclear ban can’t last long?).
It would be an interesting exercise to try and list out the major military hardware purchases that would be required to defend the country on your own. (Any ideas, Wayne?)
A lot of left peaceniks don’t seem to understand that the other reforms they ask for are meaningless without a strong military (and probably compulsory military service). They won’t last long if someone can simply ride into town and blow your new government away.
But generally they already ride into town and BUY what they want, and that is much more cost effective.
A Defence Force that costs around 2% of GDP would have the following:
An Army of 6,000 (up 20% from present). An Airforce with 6 P8 Poseidon (up 2), 6 C130 (up 1), 18 NH90 helicopters (double the present) and ideally 2 C17 (we were offered two around 2014/2015). The Navy would have 3 frigates and 2 patrol ships (all with a common hull), and 2 multirole ships (similar but superior to HMNZS Canterbury), plus the Aotearoa. All this would mean an overall 25% increase in the size of the Defence Forc. This would cost 2% of GDP instead of the current 1.5% of GDP.
New Zealand would then have a very capable Defence Force, able to cover any reasonably foreseeable contingency, including civil disasters, in New Zealand and the South Pacific. It would also be a serious contribution to the overall capability of both Australia and New Zealand. I know that does not matter to some commenters here, in fact they actively oppose the security relationship with Australia. However, Australia is New Zealand’s only formal ally, and I can’t see that changing. Unless of course a future government has the Green Party as the lead party in government, but even they might think twice before severing a large part of our economic, social and security ties with Australia.
I don’t think anyone appreciates the effect drones have on the battlefield. I’ve seen countless videos of Ukrainian soldiers using fifty dollar drones taking out maint battle tanks, freaking tanks! $100 vs 2 million.
The CV90 infantry fighting vehicle is by far and away the most effective counter to drones. It has the gun, radar, communications and self defence to take out drones. Get some of those.
We will be forced by the collapse of Globalism and USA as protector of trade routes, into dependency on Australia and USA throwing us an economic lifeline.
While the increase in funds is warrented and much needed it is a pity Little was not so vocal in support of medical workers .
Labour ruined the armed forces attraction by using them as security guards at MIQ facilities let’s hope this pay rise attracts some back .
Why wasn’t defense force and medical workers salaries and infrastructure increased year on year prior to Labour and Little taking office?
The military were looked after but for some reason medical workers and education suffered a lack of attention by Nationals final years .Perhaps it was due to poor ministers but I feel that National have learnt the lessons and hopefully if elected this time will not make the same mistakes .
Martyn – Bang on (100% Correct) – that increase will go on toys rather than the servicing members…also, where does the Government get off granting this, while Teachers/Nurses/Firefighters have been told to stick it by the Government
We’re a part of the British Commonwealth in case you’ve forgotten. Therefore we already have a military and navy and if neoliberal maggie thatcher can send them orf to bash the Argies then the new King can spare a few aircraft carriers and jets to kick ass here if needs be. They could start by booting google’s larry page and jonky’s bestie pete thiel of paypal out for starters. I bet what’s happening is a slowly-slowly catchy monkey approach to conning us into becoming a republic so’s the hyper-riche can simply buy us then move in. The world’s on fire in case you hadn’t noticed and here, in AO/NZ there’s a rare opportunity to weather out that particular nightmare looming on the horizon. We’re being politely bent towards a weak tea, bare knees and route march thing and towards being fucked by some neoliberal politician who’s been lobbied to con us into becoming a republic without the bananas.
A word on andrew little. “Meh” seems to do it.
BE are you a first year University student?
If you ever got out of the first year of secondary school Bob, you’d be able to answer that question.
NZ Defence is in such poor shape for a number of reasons, including:
* Treats their people like garbage.
* Stupid spending decisions – purchased far more LAVs or ships than they can possibly operate with existing manning levels.
* The posting cycle means that the biggest idiot in the room is usually the one making decisions.
Do they need more money? Perhaps.
Will it make a difference? Only if they fix all the systemic problems, otherwise they will just end up pissing it against a wall.
If Andrew Little is in involved it will end in tears.
( reference his track record.)
Oh how can you say that, he’s been soooooo successful at everything he has done! LOL! :D:D:D
But Andrew is one of their best. Well, after Nash that is.
Yes,dreadful when someone so awful is one of Labour’s best.
So says Bob and his fetish for Andrew Little. Stick to harassing young boys.
Would be interesting to know what percentage of said attrition was due to mandating out .
Many quit because they didn’t sign up to stand around, playing at security guards in hotels. Action overseas isn’t much of a possibility at the moment so things are a little boring. You don’t join the army for boring.
Well, you don’t join the army for boring but boring is the norm for most armed forces.
The cool vids of people jumping out of planes and stuff represent about 1% of the time for fewer than 5% of the people.
So then people quit. The trick is to keep them busy doing fun stuff, but that costs money.
That and they didnt sign up to clean up after storms.
Did you volunteer like I did Peter?
They get paid to run all day. These people would rather play for a private team than be on the bench for the military. Out them in the field.
You are quite right about MIQ my son did 13 stints playing security guard, he absolutely hated it and as soon as his return of service was up departed for WA and pay of $70 per hour. He has said almost his entire intake of mechanics has also left, apart from MIQ reasons were lack of travel, poor pay the over the top WOKEness taking over. Anecdotal also is the fact that the NZ army has sent many technicians over for a several month course on the Bushmaster and every single one put in there discharge papers on return from Australia. Paying a few more thousand per year is not going to go anywhere in solving the disaster that is current manning requirements.
Good things take time @Martyn, and every little bit helps (said the old public service CEO/Snr line manager dowager as she/her spat into the ocean).
Ron and Wayne seem appreciative. WHY CAN’T YOU, you bloody raving radical. If you’re not careful, someone might call for an EY inquiry.
Incrementalism – the art of doing as little as possible to try and keep the natives under control, usually using spin and bullshit.
Rome wasn’t built in a day, especially when there is a raft of bureaucrats and their hangers-on to keep satisfied
if we can afford military spending we can afford house building and pensions
Very true.
We need a nuclear sub. Base it in Taupo.
Now that’s thinking outside the box.
If we ever did need a glass canon that would be the way.
Seriously. From who do we need to defend ourselves from? The enemy from within or somebody else??
Get greenpeace activists out to the 200km EEZ limit to keep an eye on things. When they spot something, I’m sure we’ll hear about it and then telegraph the news via 5eyes!
We’re a group of small islands at the bottom of the world on the way to nowhere. A threat to nobody but ourselves. What we should do is use our defense force putea to ramp up the CD and engineers corp to build shit!! Infrastructure and stuff!
Let greenpeace take the hit!
Looking back to WW1 we had a very small regular force but a very big territorial reserve force that was capable of being called up in case of crisis, and our training system was designed to provide replacements and reinforcements for our division for 5 years (the war lasted 4) so really having a strong reserve that regularly is called back for updated training is the economical way to go. In ww2 we mostly learned on the job. In both wars, the apart from our rifles the gear we trained with was not what we primarily fought with, all the major weapon systems were replaced as the wars progressed as they would be in another major war.
We only need the basics for self defence with good training and command. But we need the ability to expand rapidly if the need arises either for disaster operations or regional security. The future is having a good on call reserve force.
WW2 military technology was relatively simple to mass produce. We went from nothing to a full on invasion force in five years. You can’t build a battle ship in five years anymore. The reaserch in R&D is expensive and the development bit is even more expensive with modern money but that is the price we have to pay to make war so expensive only a lunatic would take us on.
Why do we even have a defense budget? Or a defense force? That’s like us sending the Breakers into the NBA…it’s fucking hopeless. A waste of money. Repurpose all that money into civil defense and upscale Coastguard to protect our fisheries and eliminate poachers in the most brutal fashion. Make cibil defense compulsory for school leavers…6months training. This whole NZ Army Navy Airforce thing is like Kiwirail and the light rail idiocy. Good tax payer money flushed down the dunny.
I don’t want private organisations getting thier hands on military grade technology. You’re just not worth listening to.
Where do you think the military get all their weapons??!?
I know where they come from. Lockmart (privately owned) makes nukes. I get it. Not the way I would do it burnout get what you’re given living in NZ.
we could get rid of it!
Try it the Governor general will rightly sack that government.
Remember INTERFET?
I do was bloody there & my mate from B Coy 2nd/1st was KIA with NZ BATT2 while Peacekeeping!
Do you support West Papua Independence?
If so, you are going to need another INTERFET style Peace Stabilisation Mission given what those fucking cunts from the TNI & their Militia mates did to ET will be a 100x worst in West Papua after when Timor Leste voted yes for independence from Indonesia!
Still want to get rid of the NZDF?
You are dreaming if you think increasing defense spending will ever deter or defeat a determined invader in the modern world, and in particular, any nation that is of a size and capability of being remotely successful.
What would you know about defeating an invasion force?
Regardless how much money NZ spends on defence, it won’t matter against China or the US (or even Australia) if they decide to invade. Spending zero vs 10% of GDP makes no difference other than the latter gives sweet NZ tax payer cheddar for overseas defence contractors for no actual gain. A US style 2nd Amendment for NZ (i.e. an armed population) would work as a clear deterrent – but after Christchurch (and the Govt’s response to it) that is presumably no longer on the table.
China isn’t planning on invading anyone. That’s not there goal. They want there coastline clear so they can develop the other way towards the Stan nations and down through India and the African continent. That’s what the new cold war is dead set against. Modernising Africa is to good for them. The western racket of the third world is just to profitable to let go.
We need to purchase surface to surface and surface to air missiles. Purchase more frigates. Get rid of the LAVs. And up our game with advanced drones, and dare I say it get some nuclear weapons.
Apparently we don’t need things like that…
https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-national/axing-missile-system-leaves-nz-army-without-air-defence
That because the IFF Queuing System got damaged & the tight ass National Government & their Treasury Mates refused to buy another one or repair it.
Like alot of things that the fucking Tories & Treasury Mates did to the NZDF in the 90’s & later under Keys Government!
Thence why the NZDF is a shit show atm. 30+yrs of under investment which started back in the 90’s & now every NZG Dept is so under funded they are all struggling to its mandated jobs/ tasks properly nowadays.
Nuclear weapons is used against super power vs super power. We have absolutely no threatening near neighbours that we can not attack with conventional means. No we’d be better off with anti balletic missile if we needed it. If we need nukes and or counter nukes then there wouldn’t be any arguments because we’d get them.
I think an alliance that says anyone who fires a nuke first gets sent back to the stone Age.
Well judging by Free Pee he’s in the stone age.
This entire government and the parliament it passes laws in is a joke and nobody is laughing !
The desertions of the recruits is entirely understandable as like the majority of the country fighting for survivable wages and salaries contrary to neo liberal orthodoxy and the 1% and their enablers and the corporates who expect to be able to thieve more and more for less …. nobody can live on just fresh air and feel good anecdotes.
The real measure of this rich mans ” spare ” labour party is that not one teacher or nurse should be on strike …not one !
LINO have dragged out negotiations for months in the hope that the teachers and others would just give up and go away and be quiet like the organisation I am employed by who have taken years to agree to move support workers from minimum wage to a living wage which is an extra .90 cents an hour after the minimum wage barely increased more than .28 cents.
There are so many out there getting obscene salaries for just working at home.
The greed , the vile entitlement is a product of the neo liberal dog eat dog mentality and encouraged by the economic system LINO keeps in place to hurt its once most ardent supporters that it pretends it still represents.
A lot of great ideas from many – fascinated with a few.
Really think Govt should explore Mince on Toast more.
Meanwhile totally respect saveNZ’s stance.
No. The battlefield has changed. Drones aren’t very good for them identifing and prosecuting enemy ships and planes unless you have a swarm the logistical tail of which a country as remote as New Zealand could not secure an everwhelming advantage in this area.
No drones are one of the most lethal weapons in the world for taking out infantry dismounts and light armoured vehicles.
I responded to a survey from the military and said quadruple their budget.
Well, I never — I find myself agreeing with both Martyn and Chris (about the King). It’s an unusual day.
Changed my mind ‘about the King’. A NZ hero can do the same job and better … Edmund Hillary, Allison Holst, Fred Dagg, Sam Neill and on. That silly arse ceremony did it for me.