The audacity (and stupidity) of NZ Right demanding punitive Ram Raider action

By
Martyn Bradbury
-
84
1762

Ummmmm. Luxon is coming across a bit, ‘spare the crowbar spoil the child’ now isn’t he?

I mean, we all get he has to generate dog whistle raw meat policy for his reactionary redneck, knuckle dragging, banjo twanging rump and is desperately trying to steal votes off ACT, but he’s getting shitty that his stupid counter productive knee jerks aren’t being well received and he’s whining now…

Christopher Luxon calls wraparound services ‘kumbaya’, ‘mush’ as he doubles down on tough-on-crime tactics

The National Party is doubling down on its tough-on-crime tactics, by referring to wraparound services as “kumbaya” and “mush”.

Party leader Christopher Luxon made the comments while addressing how to deal with the country’s ram-raid problem.

Earlier this week, he reintroduced National’s military boot camp policy for misbehaving youths, switching the focus away from wraparound services.

…this is all so bewilderingly stupid and utterly beneath us all in terms of serious social policy debate.

The audacity (and stupidity) of the Rights position on these counter productive right wing virtue signal military boot camps is gag inducing.

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As far as I can see, the Right’s argument is this:

“Sure, the Military Boot Camps don’t work and might actually make things worse – B-U-T the Left aren’t doing anything about Ram Raiding Youth and I’m frightened and something must be done!”

Let’s just start with the stupidity part of this insanity.

You all get that you are being played by the News Media’s ‘if-it-bleeds-it-leads’ corporate click bait business model eh?

You all get that corporate media love ram raids, they love the video, they love how cheap they are to produce, they love how easy it is to manipulate you with fear.

Yes of course ram raids are happening, but the total myopic focus on promoting them via the media in turn feeds the self promotion of these kids putting these crimes own social media in the first place!

YOU ARE ALL BEING PLAYED BY THE CORPORATE MEDIA!

The very same people who scream the media are fake news are the very same running around promoting every fear drenched story the media vomit up!

You have allowed your fear to justify removing civil liberties from children! You are arguing for ankle bracelets on children, you should be ashamed at how easily you have allowed your fear to be manipulated!

The stupidity of how easily spooked and led you all are by the news media is almost as huge as the audacity that the Left aren’t doing anything!

Of course things are being done! We are building the capacity of social services to deal with these young peoples and we are tackling the poverty and inequality that feeds this crime!

The Left are prepared to make the investment into combating the causes of crime, not the short term revenge fantasies that National are peddling!

If you are screaming for counterproductive Military Boot Camps and ankle bracelets of children, maybe you need to stop being manipulated by the news media and require a cup of tera and lie down.

Ram raids shouldn’t be an excuse to remove civil liberties from children and you should stop being easily led cowards!

 

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84 COMMENTS

    • That’s where the powers that Be would like to take us I am sure. Just look at the new corrections adverts about bad choices. I am sure they would luv to put more behind bars for lesser and lesser Crimes. Unfortunately for them there is no room at the Inn.

    • What are you proposing? … ram raids are a form of class terrorism? Those with nothing and no hope vs those who own the vast majority of capital – business and property owners, and the means to continue increasing their piece of the ‘pie’.

      Structural reform is the only way to stop ram raids, gangs and anti-vaccine advocates – and there is no way that those who own and control most of the capital in this country are going to consider this. Why share when you can horde … more than you will ever need.

      OK – overkill for the many small business owners being affected by this but at least they could afford to purchase their business – I will bet 99% of this group also own their own personal property.

      • There we go. All the excuses in the book. Business owners could afford their business bla bla bla. Why don’t we all ram raid and steal instead of paying. We’d save a lot of money. Also let’s shame everyone who owns their own home. It’s all their fault. And to finish off, let’s give the crims a fat Xmas bonus. I just applied to Websters and Wikipedia to have word ‘consequence’ removed. It’s racist, classist, demeaning and offensive.

        • ” It’s racist, classist, demeaning and offensive.”… Yes, your statements are just that.. You win the prize for the most shallow, self serving, and bigoted drivel written on this site today.. Considering the general lack of intelligence brought to a large proportion of the comments on this, and pretty much all of the blogs in NZ, that’s rather impressive…
          It’s fuckwittery like yours that is one of the reasons NZ’s social structures, and ability to make their own economic decisions has been almost completely voided.. Thanks to idiots like yourself being incapable of seeing anything past your own noses, this country is now ripe for the plucking by whoever gets here first.. John Key was put here to set this up, and morons like you cheered it on..
          Traitors to your own people is all you, and your ilk are.. Good watching all the smart ones leaving the second they can., never to return, ain’t it. Leaves more room for the mediocrities that now run our countries bureaucracies, and the psychopaths and incompetents that infest the upper management of most of our businesses.. I hope you morons are proud of what you have allowed to be done to your own country.. It’s now almost beyond fixing… Well done..

      • Ram Raid are simply terrorism. Nothing more nothing less. I see no difference between the dude that takes a van to drive into a crowd on the grounds of god/superstition and between the dude that takes a car to drive into businesses and shops on the grounds of viral tiktok video/and i am so oppressed. Both set of people do not care about the harm done, in fact doing harm is what they set out to do.

        • Bratwurst you are seriously in need of help. How can you conflate hate crime with a muddle-headed youth who has not formulated any ideas about society? But of course, the late greatly despised Thatcher famously stated that “there is no such thing as society”.

          • Muddle headed youth to whom the greens wish to give voting rights. It appears that 16 year olds are children who can ram raid without consequence, but are adult when it comes to voting in general elections.

        • “Ram Raid are simply terrorism”. Only someone stupid enough to think John Key was loyal to NZ would be that confused over what terrorism actually is.. Otherwise, you are just trying to deliberately misinform the even more ignorant than yourself, which makes your comment nothing more than reprehensible muckraking..

      • “I bet they could afford to buy their businesses”. Of course they could. Through hard work and saving no doubt. Unlike the other side of this debate probably spending their money on getting wasted and other such non esentials such as tattoos and X boxes. It will be a sad day when hard work doesn’t get rewarded in this country.

    • oh really cabbage terrorists…? what political aim do ram raiders have..? may I suggest a thesaurus having first worked your way up from a dictionary.

  3. Ram raiding is terrorism. And sadly its kids going Lord of the Fly on their communities. What is Labour solution to this problem?

    • It is not terrorism ffs. Spending 25mil on a policy that doesn’t work is not “doing something” either. It’s a 25million dollar vote buying exercise and a waste of f*cking money (something the Nat’s are supposed to be against, and some former Nat MPs are against). Why did National ditch the idea last time? Why not put that towards police as Labour have done. You can’t say they have done anything.

    • RB
      Yep. What I am proposing is that these crimes are classified as acts of terrorism. Driving a deadly weapon (car) through a building is not pickpocketing. It’s terrorism. We have laws that deal with terrorists. Apply those.

      • can we apply the terrorism laws to drunk drivers who take out entire families…just becaquse you’ve learned a new word cabbage don’t wear it out in misapplication.

      • Your right Bob. National were proactive. They reduce police funding, gave boot camps a go, gathered evidence it didn’t work and nipped in the bud. Now to prove that the definition of insanity is alive and well they said let’s give it another go. They know it won’t work but they don’t care.

        If labour don’t do anything what’s all bleating about? Is three waters, healthcare reform, reducing bright line period, minimum wage increase, fair pay legislation, doing nothing?

    • Glengarry wines ramraided 42 times in 18 months. Completely disagree. The lefts stand on law and order is a farce!

      • Imagine if National had not have closed over 30 police stations and reduced police numbers during there time. It took 9 years to get to this point. The rights stand on law and order is a farce and completely hypocritical!

  5. Getting tough on crime certainly works. The problem here is that New Zealanders don’t know the meaning of tough. This is the land of the wet bus ticket.

      • Just as we enjoy you whoring out Russell Brand links like a pump…yeahhhh a multi millionaire telling the rest how it should be, a true champagne socialist is our Russell eh Countryboy?

    • So Andrew, do you think putting ankle bracelets on 10 year olds and sending kids to boot camps is getting tough on crime? or do you have something else in mind?

    • so US and UK prison populations have fallen have they andrew? figures please…unless of course YOU are advocating for phillipino style death squads.

      • Gagarin, just because you don’t send a criminal to prison doesn’t mean the crime didn’t happen.

        • distraction from the issue there mods, different argument the usual rightard go to when called on their bullshit…epic fail.

  6. Meh, you’ll be surprised to find how many on “The Right” think this idea is bullshit. Frankly it’s a fucking insult that Luxon actually thinks the Right will love this and yet another example of how he actually thinks like a Lefty – he makes the same assumption about the Right that you do.

    And it won’t make any difference to my vote when I consider what a Wet drip he is on other issues.

    • The results in Hamilton will give a snap shot of whether Luxon is saying what people want to hear . Most I talk to agree but that may represent the circle I mix in. Many business people are worried about the risk to staff from these young thugs but see nothing being done .Police are overstretched and when they succeed in getting lawbreakers infront of the courts the sentences are laughable .

    • I agree. But at least we are now talking about the need to do something.
      Labour could have set the tone, but was to busy pretending that this is not happening, not happening as many times as it is, no crime is not on the rise, and wont’ anyone think of the poor oppressed kids that have no other thing going in NZ but to steal cars and use them as weapons and ramrods.

  7. It’s politics 101….opposition offer up a solution when the Govt have got nothing, let the Govt poo poo the opposition solution when they have allowed it to escalate and have no solution.
    A win/win for opposition….a vote catcher!
    Now pressure is on Govt to come up with a solution, and no one truly believes ‘wraparound’ services work, wrapping the little criminals in cotton wool and holding their hands and making them believe they are the victims and not their fault lol

    • Good luck with that.The last 5 years have demonstrated the Labour Government don’t come up with solutions.
      By every metric NZ is worse off after 5 years of silly people trying to run the country.

    • Politics 101 the opposition just bitch and moan because they have no answers. It’s why they are the opposition.

      • Yes some truth in that.
        We saw that when Labour in opposition with promises of;
        building houses,
        ending homelessness,
        ending child poverty,
        transparency,
        blah,blah.
        By every measure everything after 5 years is worse?
        I know that that rascal John Key.

      • It’s why it’s called ‘opposition’ you idiot, did Labour ever agree with any of Nationals policies when I’m ‘opposition’?
        It’s how our system works….pay attention!!

  8. Don’t worry Dave
    The boot camp policy won’t last – it’s just come up for the Hamilton by election to make Luxon look tough (on crime)
    Will quietly fade into the sunset the day after the election results are announced
    Luxon is still working on the not so subtle art of kite flying, along with all those other John Key skills he’s patently lacking.

  9. Yes, because nobody should be punished for ANYTHING.
    The problem is that these people are receiving funding to have children that they are neither willing nor able to raise properly and this is the result we end up with.
    The short-sighted attempt to be “kind” to people has resulted in society looking like it currently does.

  10. What’s punative is National closing down over 30 police stations during its reign. All in the meantime ramping up the country ‘s population. Cause and effect and National are hellbent on addressing the effect. They have always been a bottom of the cliff policy party.

    • Those policies were enough to get them choosen for 3 election periods and nearly a fourth if Winston had not had UTU on his mind and we t with Labour who were clearly as surprised as anyone that they had nothing ready to press go on.

      • So you agree we’re in the state of crime now thanks to Nationals appalling running down of our police infrastructure.

        Thank you.

  11. While Ram raiding is a big issue, some of the biggest killers in NZ are to do with faulty buildings such as the CTV building killing 115 people – 60% of the earthquakes deaths.

    “In September 2012 it was discovered the man who supervised the building’s construction had faked his engineering degree. Gerald Shirtcliff had stolen the identity of a retired engineer based in the UK, William Fisher.[10] The pair had been friends in the 1960s, and Shirtcliff stole Fisher’s degree by adopting his name.[11] It was later discovered Shirtcliff’s father had done most of the work on his masters in highway engineering.[12]”

    Shoddily-built house ordered demolished after builder forged inspection reports
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shoddily-built-house-ordered-demolished-after-builder-forged-inspection-reports/HT4NSQK3EVDW5JKMIWLGNMO2XU/

    “The consenting officer – whose name was redacted by the Board in its decision – said he thought Xie was out of his depth, did not understand what the council was asking him to do, and had a mindset that this was the way he’d done things in Auckland without issue.”

    Nice to see that this is only a $4500 fine in NZ! And if you fake it before you are a licensed practitioner then they don’t do anything!

    NZ safety and justice is a joke! More interest in kids ram raiding than billions of dollars of unsafe construction that when discovered only gets a $4500 fine. The kids in the ram raids get a higher penalty and are far less dangerous both economically and in terms of safety than the large amounts of appalling cases of construction and engineering in NZ which nobody seems to care about. (Quick sell to foreigner or first home buyer). Sssshhhhh.

    “A student engineer who lied on her CV and misrepresented herself as a chartered professional engineer has received the maximum fine available under Engineering New Zealand’s membership rules, and has been convicted in the District Court on 38 dishonesty charges.” ($5000 fine).
    https://www.engineeringnz.org/news-insights/unqualified-student-engineer-receives-maximum-fine/

      • Less bootcamp for kids and more bootcamps and prison for adults who are going to be a bigger cause of death and economic destruction going forward in NZ than the ram raids, judging by our appalling history. Have yet to see 115 people killed in one go by ram raids – there is a justice discrepancy between people who seem to be above the law in certain types of criminal activity, and those who are scrutinised politically weekly. NZ already had billions of dollars wiped off via leaky building with nobody in bootcamp or the criminal justice system over it including the CTV building, they just set up shop again and keep going and are allowed to get away with it.

  12. Kids will always do mad fucking things. That’s what kids are supposed to do.
    What kids aren’t supposed to do is learn to accept poverty and hardship while watching mum and dad succumb to grinding poverty as costs escalate on what were our taxes built and all bought and paid for public, but now privately owned, services and assets while nine multi billionaires lobby our corrupt politicians for more, more, more to steal.
    This, is what kids are supposed to be doing. Being mad bastards.
    Rebel Yell. We see a small noisy fellow jumping up and down making a hell of a racket wearing sharp pointy bits if tin with a hair style reminiscent of being freshly electrocuted. They see a manic hero full of sperm ready for frenzied impregnation sorties.
    “ It’s a tragedy that youth is wasted on the young.” Was that Oscar Wilde ?
    https://youtu.be/VdphvuyaV_I
    ( Personally, I think the ram raid farts in tea cups thing is yet another opportunity for The Right Zing to take over your minds. Rodger the stunted moustache douglas is the father of all Ram Raids, we should remember that with what’s left of them. )

    • And that’s what Jay’s wants, stop funding poverty and continue the cycle of poverty. His ilk are the problem not the solution.

  13. And while we’re addressing the root cause of the problems which will take decades for any societal improvement to filter through, the ram raids continue destoying the lives and livelihoods of innocent citizens while Labour offers nothing but saying we need to address the root cause of the problems……

  14. The military need to train staff in the use of military style weapons from frequently targeted stores.

    Then provide trained staff with an AR-15. While the criminals are leaving the store fill them with lead.

    The only thing human scum understand is violence, so you need to use deadly force.

  15. If teenagers and younger repeatedly do ram raids, then they’ve got to be taken off the streets. So where do you put them.
    A camp with short haircuts and parade ground drill must be counterproductive.
    But if the confinement involved a regular routine, a good night’s sleep, steady meals and attention to educational deficits then where is the problem?

  16. I hadn’t noticed any of the news media actively supporting the boot camp initiative. That is unless you feel interviewing the latest victim and publicising their experience, overly supporting the victim. Those who aren’t in the service industries often don’t give a shit about business owners, and see them in the same light as they look at farmers. Greedy and taking advantage of those that don’t own a business. They only get upset when their favourite store closes. The idea that the government is slowly fixing the problem by improving housing and wages etc might be true except for the reality that the violence damage and theft the business victims are facing now, means they won’t be in business in ten years time. The business owners and the general public who are becoming increasingly involved, want to see these so called children off the streets.
    Compulsory military training as experienced by those in the 1960’s hurt no one and benefited many. It was only stopped because it ceased to be needed and was an inconvenience to those wanting to get on with their education and careers. These days no body wants to be told what to do and many run riot or do nothing. I think you will find many so called stupid people out there feel Luxons idea isn’t so bad. I’m one of those stupid people.

  17. If teenagers and younger repeatedly do ram raids, then they’ve got to be taken off the streets. So where do you put them.
    A camp with short haircuts and parade ground drill must be counterproductive.
    But if the confinement involved a regular routine, a good night’s sleep, steady meals and attention to educational deficits then where is the problem?

    • Then it’s not a ‘boot camp’, but a life changing experience, like Out Ward Bound or Spirit of Adventure. Wouldn’t it be great if all kids got to experience something of that nature. But providing such experiences is obviously not what National believe in, rather they believe in Sergeant Major type shock treatment.

  18. This also could be a solution for the makeit16 advocates too!
    Off to the front lines in Ukraine! Thus could result into less ramraids and yoof crime ay?

  19. It shows how educated the “left” really is. If a socialist was baiting the majority like Aloha Lex Luther Luxon then there would be a reaction. He is so disconnected from reality that we can just stand back and hope that the disconnected elite boomer class does not have enough influence to convince their grandchildren that the right are good economic managers. They are useless, if they weren’t, there would not be any ram raiders!

  20. I see Hipkins is backing Luxon after Jacinda crapped all over him. Maybe if she told parents to sort their kids she’d have Labour ahead in the polls. It’s the end of Hipkins…he dared to contradict her.

  21. I see Hipkins is backing Luxon after Jacinda crapped all over him. Maybe if she told parents to sort their kids she’d have Labour ahead in the polls. It’s the end of Hipkins…he dared to contradict her.

  22. For many decades we have known there is a direct relationship between inequality and crime. Poverty, poor housing, low wages, benefit dependency etc. are the cause of most if not all of the issues we are being fed on our evening news.
    We need some serious change to make any difference whatsoever. More tax is not the issue, NZ already tax at 31.7% of GDP, higher than Australia, UK, Germany and not surprisingly the USA.
    Cut all this woke crap and ideological rubbish, lets take a step back and focus on the key issues causing pain and suffering to the most disadvantaged and vulnerable in our society.
    I don’t care if you are red, blue, green or yellow. Wouldn’t it be amazing if there was someone, anyone who could actually lead this country to where it could be a far better society than it is at the moment.
    In despair I look overseas and it seems like we are not alone. Canada, UK, in fact most of the developed word seem to de in decline. We don’t have to follow the same path.

    • Maybe McKiwi we already have such a leader but there are some seriously influential people (here and abroad) who don’t want a fairer society. They are spending huge sums of money to repeat untrue mantra about our current direction. In a democracy no leader can initiate changes that the majority don’t believe in – i.e. climate change, water pollution, overseas ownership…..

    • Hard times create strong men,
      strong men create good times,
      good times create weak men,
      and weak men create hard times.

      Take a guess where we are on that scale?

  23. Bratwurst you are seriously in need of help. How can you conflate hate crime with a muddle-headed youth who has not formulated any ideas about society? But of course, the late greatly despised Thatcher famously stated that “there is no such thing as society”.

    • Define hate crime firstly?
      And i would like to point out that terrorism is not so much a hate crime as it is a political / religious crime.
      Driving a car into a crowd of people who one deems unworthy is a hate crime, driving a car into a shop because one seems these people unworthy of respect and care should also be a hate crime. Fact is that a vehicle is weaponised by people who have an issue with society and want to take their hate out on that society. The ones on the grounds of superstion the others on the grounds of a viral tiktok vidoe – a new god if you so like.
      the ones who pay the bills are those that get maimed and hurt. It is nothing short of domestic terrorism.

  24. I think the answer to these issues is boarding schools. There used to be many very successful Maori boarding schools that have closed down over the years and i think the answer to serious youth crime offending is a number of fully served boarding schools where they get to take pride in themselves, in physical activity, hard work, achievement and their own cultures. Get some ex army types and youth social workers, psychologists and I think it would be really positive. Home in the school holidays and try and involve the families as well.

    Also be prepared to stream them by both intellect and attitude/behaviour. Maybe have other facilities for the few who only want to be destructive and bring others down (Borstal?). Also some cant be saved because they have too many issues so aim at least for the 75% who have a chance.

    (Not making an assumption here, my sister has worked at a home for children that are too damaged to live at home and that is super hard. Requires massive funding and is incredibly unfulfilling for the caregivers. They are either violent, dangerously unpredictable or so depressed they will almost certainly do themselves in). I think this approach would also satisfy the right wings demand for punitive action, especially if they are out on the field at 6.30 each morning doing PT as a start to the day.

    • A Marae style set up / boarding school could work also. Warm roof over their heads, three meals a day – that they helped prepare, standard schooling coupled with lessons in weaving, carving, planting food, getting out in nature, looking after each others. These kids need to get away from whom ever eggs them on to go out and do that shit. The need to relearn social skills, find back some emotional stability and even a path of logic that allows them to see and then plan their futures. Right now they are on a path to nowhere. And society shrugs.
      While i don’t think that a military academy style facilitate would be beneficial to all it might work for some. Not all boarding schools need to be abusive environments. But at some stage we need to wrap our minds around the reality of kids as young as 10/11 stealing cars and using these as ramrods and weapons. And not doing anything about it is not going to work.

  25. They should send the ram raiders to Ukraine..put them in tanks….point them to the Russian lines and tell them…to start..ramming.

  26. yawn – a few dis-enfranchised youth going all outlaw and we get all hysterical? they obviously know the law better than most here and they don’t GAF. How do you make them GAF? legalise drugs so their bling has no market and their parents have to get jobs.

  27. The Nats will have to do an Ozzie about these silly kids. Stick’m on islands or some shit. It is disgusting, these attacks. But the dairy owners aren’t criminologists. Their solns are straight from the third world. But we must defend them.

    They re insightful bout where we’re going in a country ruled by the rich. The Third World.

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