Weapons of Mass Destruction, nuclear, gas, and radiological weapons, labeled collectively, ‘WMD’s, are misnamed. They are weapons of mass murder, of genocide.
Genocide is always accompanied by denial.
When an imperialist state is planning of committing genocide, secrecy, or at the very least deniability, is essential.
Even today there are people who deny the reality of the genocide committed against those of Jewish faith and other minorities by the German Nazi state.
Hidden detention centres and secret death camps, where human beings can be murdered on an industrial scale, can be hidden away and denied as never having happened.
The detonation of a nuclear or radiological weapon is something that cannot be denied, as never having happened.
The latest claim made by Russia that Ukraine is preparing to use a radiological weapon, is a clear sign that this is what Russia is planning.
Any dirty bomb attack will not be on Russian soil, those killed will be Ukrainian, Even before it has happened Russia is blaming the deaths of Ukrainians from a radiation weapon on Ukraine.
On Sunday, 23 October, Sergei Shoigu, Russia’s Minister of Defence, had a phone conversation with the third NATO defence minister on the same day, Ben Wallace, the Defence Secretary of the United Kingdom….
…..The Defence Secretary of the United Kingdom became the third representative of a NATO member state (after France and Turkey) whom Shoigu called on Sunday to tell them about supposed plans for a Ukrainian “dirty bomb”.
Pat O’Dea is a trade unionist and human rights activist.
Maybe, just maybe Russia is telling the truth Pat. Discounting Russia’s warnings as propaganda opens up someone to being labeled as intellectually lazy by failing to be objective.
Ukraine certainly has the means and motive, Russian on the other hand opens up itself for full Nato involvement despite numerous warnings of crossing red lines.
Putin never tells the truth!
Great comeback Gadfly, very insightful yet again.
According to reports the West has been provided evidence of Ukraine’s efforts with a dirty bomb, what interests me is how Ben Wallace the UK defense minister visits the US personally because “communications have been compromised” and there is no outcry from MSM about who was spying.
You are so naive finngrin. You can’t believe that Shoigu might be lying as usual.
“According to reports the West has been provided evidence of Ukraine’s efforts with a dirty bomb….” fingrinn
What reports?
What evidence?
There are no such reports.
There is no evidence.
I dare you fingrinn to provide some.
You won’t because you can’t.
There is none.
“Ukraine certainly has the means and motive,…. fingrinn
Fingrinn, your claim that Ukraine certainly has the means and the motive to bomb their own people and irradiate their own lands, doesn’t stack up.
You claim the motive is to bring in “Full NATO involvement”, when you and other pro-war trolls have been claiming from the first shot fired by Russia, that NATO are already fully involved.
Pro-war trolls like yourself have claimed that Ukraine is being manipulated by the West. How stupid that claim looks now, when Russian leaders are personally phoning NATO leaders to warn NATO against being manipulated by Ukraine?
Ukraine is successfully winning back territory, and driving back Russian forces, they don’t need to bomb their own people for more Western support.
All the evidence is that Ukraine, (with the help of their Western supporters), are regaining territory from the Russian occupier, and that the Russian assault is failing on all fronts.
What about your other claim Fingrinn,that Ukraine “has the means…”
What are these means, Why haven’t they been revealed?
If Russia really had evidence that Ukraine is secretly preparing to drop a dirty bomb on their own people, this would be one of the biggest intelligence successes of all time.
If Shuigu and other Russian leaders really have any evidence of ‘the means’ that Ukraine has to detonate a radiological weapon, why not reveal it to the world?
Why won’t the Russian Minister of Defence, Sergei Shoigu, name the Ukrainian nuclear scientists he has claimed are involved in deploying this weapon?
Why doesn’t Shoigu name the facility or organisation that is involved?
Shoigu has provided no evidence, no proof, nothing at all to back up his claim.
Agreed Pat. Russia is blocking the UN inspectors access to the Zaporizhia nuclear plant and the captive Ukrainian operators are claiming that there is a no go area where Russian GRU or FSB operatives may be preparing the dirty bomb that they are trying to blame on Ukraine.
Pat, you rival Rachel Maddow is how bent out of shape any mention of Russia or Putin makes you.
Pat. Can you explain why Russia would use a “dirty” bomb in this situation. They have proper nukes they could use if they want to do that sort of thing ( which I am certain they do not) But how would it in any way advance their cause?
If there is a chance that Ukraine could deploy such a device and have commenters like you blame Russia for it and thereby draw Nato into a full scale war with Russia instead of goading Ukraine into it’s suicidal resistance there is a logic to it. But for Russia to use a dirty bomb in their neighbour’s territory has no logic to it whatsoever.
D J S
…. for Russia to use a dirty bomb in their neighbour’s territory has no logic to it whatsoever.
D J S
The key words are, “… in their neigbour’s territory”
Scorched Earth Policy
From Wikipedia:
…. anything useful to the advancing enemy may be targeted, including food stores and agricultural areas, water sources, and even the local people themselves….
….It may overlap with, but is not the same as, punitive destruction of the enemy’s resources, which is usually done as part of political strategy, rather than operational strategy.
“T… when the Imperialists were unable any longer to maintain a place, it was laid in ashes, in order to leave the enemy nothing but ruins.”
Scorched Earth Russian style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7FS0hcPeS0
For daring to oppose them, Roman imperial forces sowed the fields in Carthage with salt.
The ancient world had no nuclear isotopes.
If they had, they probably would do what Russia is threatening will happen in Ukraine.
DJS. Oh yes it has a logic to it alright. Haven’t you heard of a false flag operation? This is something that Putin is very skilled at.
Pat I like the fact that you are concerned about human rights. I would wager that the Putin apologists have no concern for human rights whatsoever! They wouldn’t support Putin if they did!
Pats not concerned about Human rights unless it fits his narrow definition of who qualifies, the same as you Gadfly.
Well I’m sure that Pat supports Amnesty International as do I. Do you support them Finngrin?
“Pat. Can you explain why Russia would use a “dirty” bomb in this situation. They have proper nukes they could use if they want to do that sort of thing…. David Stone
Those planning to commit genocide want to keep it secret. If they can’t keep it secret, they want to keep it deniable.
The thing about deploying“proper nukes” Dave, is that their deployment can not be well hidden.
And as Bob Dylan wrote, ‘The executioner’s face is always well-hidden’
I’m a-goin’ back out ‘fore the rain starts a-fallin’
I’ll walk to the depths of the deepest dark forest
Where the people are many and their hands are all empty
Where the pellets of poison are flooding their waters
Where their home in the valley meets the damp dirty prison
And the executioner’s face is always well-hidden
It’s a Hard Rain Gonna Fall
Pats corner of TDB ,,,, is a circus,,, with Pat the dishonest clown show.
* this is my 3rd comment in this thread ,,, which proves what a circus goes on around him.
The stance of Pat and Gafly together with the US UK , Nato and the MSM on this issue, depicting Putin as an insane megalomaniac with absolutely no reason to feel his country is under any threat, and that the US/nato are a perfectly benevolent, honest force of reason , is a proposition that is set in stone to end in the destruction of the physical world as we know it.
To depict those who accredit Russia with reason as war mongers stands the truth on it’s head. giving Russia no credibility in her concerns for autonomy and security can only end in a fight to the death of all of us.
D J S
I think you are standing on your head DJS!
I have never said, or depicted. Putin as an insane megalomaniac.
I have never said that the US/nato are a perfectly benevolent, honest force of reason.
David you have constructed a straw man argument of your own, to knock down. You are arguing with yourself so that you don’t have to confront the real causes of this war. Without expansion and ‘growth’ capitalist states go into recession. Russia is a capitalist imperialist state. Imperialism is an integral part of capitalism.
To avoid recession, bigger capitalist states will prey on smaller capitalist states. Smaller capitalist states will resist.
This is the motive for Russia’s war against Ukraine. Nothing to do with the personality of Vladimir Putin, or Volodymyr Zelensky.
Larger capitalist states will prey on smaller ones, smaller capitalist states will resist.
Personally I think every capitalist state needs learn to live within their own borders. (Capitalist states also need to learn to live withing the borders imposed by nature. Having to live within their own political boundaries and within the boundaries of the environment and stop exceeding them., would of course mean the end the current capitalist economic model. A good thing)
My view of Putin? it really doesn’t matter what individual leader is in the Kremlin, (or the Whitehouse, for that matter). Capitalist economies are either expanding or contracting, there is no steady state. Capitalist economies are either experiencing growth or recession. As global capitalism goes into recession capitalist states will try to secure markets and territories and new sources of raw materials and labour, This is the driving factor for all capitalist wars. Capitalism must expand or die.
The Russian Federation is no different, or better than any other capitalist state.
“I have never said, or depicted. Putin as an insane megalomaniac.
I have never said that the US/nato are a perfectly benevolent, honest force of reason.”
Perhaps you have not Pat, but this is certainly the assumption of the general MSM explanation of the reasons behind this war. Which is why almost everyone one opens the subject with says “Someone needs to put a bullet in Putin’s head”. It is the automatic reaction of anyone accepting the narrative we are daily subjected to and to which your article substantially contributes.
I am glad of your more nuanced perspective; If the US/Nato does not escalate this into a nuclear armageddon we will eventually see what Russia does in respect of absorbed territories and whether further expansion involves acquisition of resource rich areas or whether they simply force a compliance with their security proposals laid out in December. It is my belief that security is the motivation for this and subsequent action and that Russia would be perfectly happy ( and extremely well placed) to trade openly and fairly with any and all free autonomous nations. A good deal is good for bot or all participants , otherwise it is not a good deal.
But I do acknowledge that the resource and financial losses of Ukraine in loosing control of the Donbass to Russia is a massive transfer of resource based wealth.
D J S
Hmmm, now there’s a thought .The US has already said its aim in Ukraine is to weaken Russia.Golly, what a bonanza for the US/UK/EU if Russia could be split asunder like Yugoslavia and divvied up among the victors.Russia has no need to invade another country for its resources.It has more land than it can inhabit, and much in the way of untapped resources.Precisely the reason why the west would dearly love to get its hands on Russia.
Stating the obvious to people like Pat is an exercise in futility as some only look through the lens at their narrow worldview.
Pat, I would respectfully have to disagree. It does make a difference who is in the Kremlin. If Nemtsov or Navalny was Russian president, you would not find such an aggressive foreign policy at all. Eurasianism would be dropped and Russia would be a constructive part of Europe again.