The State’s Jackboot should always be on the throat of the booze barons!

1. Unfortunately, with the pandemic folk embraced the habit of buying online, with alcohol ordered by smart phone and couriered to the front door. Getting it out of the supermarkets would be a major first step in curtailing excessive drinking for the non- smart, and it does irk to see opportunistic immigrants enriching themselves at the social and economic expense of the locals who let them in.

   • Well, I am pretty sure the immigrants don’t set the rules. Wouldn’t taking booze out of the supermarkets actually drive business to those outlets that probably do less to check the age of who they are selling to? At least supermarkets are incredibly anal about checking (well at least the ones I go to).

     • Wheel I have to say that I was absolutely delighted when a student at the checkout asked me for ID, I couldn’t thank him enough.

       The young guys who used to hang around outside liquor outlets looking for an older person to do their purchasing, sometimes with unsatisfactory results, may be the ones now having supplies couriered to them, I don’t know, and nor do I know if that process involves age checks.

       The bugbear may be Shipley getting the drinking age lowered, theoretically to morph Kiwis into sophisticated Continentals. That hasn’t worked. But your point about outcomes from alcohol-free supermarkets is a good one.

     • And supermarkets do not set up in the poorer neighbourhoods alongside high seling Lotto shops/dairies.

   • snow white surely you mean intergrating into the host community by taking on the core NZ values of fucking over kiwis and to hell with the consequences as practiced by all other kiwi businesses….a prime example of real integration in action….wouldn’t you say?

     • Gagarin. Is this another “ colonialism” gig ? I’m not going there, thanks all the same. The aesthetics are important though. I have fond memories of stopping off at my London off-license to seriously choose a bottle burgundy to make my famous coq au vin ( how peasants cook an old chook), returning to New Zealand, and encountering my first booze barn, a drive in, a bit like a building supplies outlet. Now my local supermarkets have alcohol sections infinitely bigger than their dairy or meat, not that anybody can afford the latter.

       The bottom lines are many; supermarket shoppers buying something they can’t really afford; drinking drivers; drunkenness normalised for kids; dizzy girls, once an unknown; I’m pretty sure it was Fay Weldon who blamed The Spice Girls for the now regular phenomenon of intoxicated half-dressed girls falling about in the streets, none of which is healthy living, but all of which makes a small number of vulgarians very rich indeed. The Nats started it here, and that’s a fact.

   • The availability of alcohol for sale is not the same thing as excessive drinking.

2. Two problems with the Government’s ‘local control’ reforms here:

   1) The reason that Councils keep losing in Court is because they don’t have solid evidence to justify their local alcohol policies. The research evidence for retail outlet density controls is a mess, and Councils’ polices for their area are based on a bunch of staffers’ reckons and from listening to Karens. Their lack of evidence and logic is exposed in court under questioning.

   2) The ‘community’ is much broader and more diverse than a local GP, a few church leaders (occasionally), some Karens, and a local councillor trying to increase their name recognition. Councils are listening to the loudest, most organised voice. That is usually the only voice.

   Historically, when governments try to bring in local control. i.e. local communities trying to control how alcohol is retailed in their area – it brings a lot of unintended consequences. Such as people with cars simply driving to the next local control area to buy, and usually in bulk.

   Another unintended consequence is that people who own a retail store in a LAP area get a lot wealthier as they now own a store with the right to sell alcohol without fear of a competitor starting up nearby.

   • Thanks Ada for presenting the practical realities. Alcohol is a big problem, always has been, and usually not adequately managed for the drinkers’ good or the mass of people affected by them and its sale. No sense in cutting controls and leaving it to the users to make decisions either.

     Perhaps if alcohol and use of cannabis were linked with restraints we would be making a better move. It’s such a trap – alcohol. It seems benign and generally to some extent it is. It is usually made to good standards with stated alcohol level. But RTDs have used this seeming acceptable beverage situation to take off on profitably for them. One of the introducers of RTDs sadly left his large mansion a while ago for a helicopter trip which ended badly. So sad. A neighbour puts out so many of these small bottles for recycling, and is not well off.

     So reasonable restraints – otherwise the controls give unintended consequences. When in Naples decades ago, they were selling ordinary cigarettes as contraband because of official disincentives, with our high prices that will be so here. How will people react needs to be the question law makers ask and then make sure that the result is not worse than the unsatisfactory present.

3. It is a big step forward and a decision which hasn’t been taken lightly, which is good because it shows the concern surrounding the issue of alcohol.

   The harm caused by alcohol would easily justify alcohol being triple or quadruple the price. It won’t be. Therefore it is good that alcohol retailers will lose the ability to appeal local council decisions pertaining to the sale of alcohol in individual geographical areas throughout the country.

   The cost of legal fees faced by councils over this, thus far, has been very expensive for them and it couldn’t go on too much longer the way it was. It was unfair that alcohol retailers had an appeal process because decisions were being made by different councils with the concern of residents at the forefront of their minds.

   Government funding for alcohol rehabilitation services having been declining since 2008, this latest decision to drop an appeals process is the right one, and will probably most benefit areas of low socio-economic status.

4. Alcoholics Anonymous – all twelve steps programs – are the least effective treatment, with a success rate I believe of 60%. We need free access to proven effective treatments, not faith based ones!

   And well yes we certainly DO need stronger regulation that regulation also needs to be effective – not whatever buerocratic feel good crap councils come up with. Perhaps we can extract that vice tax by making alcohol barrens pay all costs of establishing LAPs, but having no right of reply at all is too far.

   And why is policy – and cost – devolved to local councils anyway? Our alcohol culture is a NATIONAL tradegy, it deserves a national response.

   • I agree that our alcohol culture is a national problem which deserves a national response. However, many of our leading politicians from both major political parties and other political parties, may disagree somewhat. Also, many voters believe that councils should take at least a portion of the responsibility. Unfortunately many councils are overloaded with debt.

     Furthermore, central government would take issue with paying for the entirety of the cost on the basis that they grant churches and charities tax exemption status so that those entities can pick up the responsibility of the cost. Additionally there is also the issues of money, time, and energy. Parliament have only relatively few sitting days per year with which to deal with any legislation pertaining to this issue so ongoing care and concern on behalf of central government relating directly to this issue (amongst other issues, such as child poverty) may require an extended parliamentary term, say from three years to four years, or an increase in parliament’s sitting days.

     The government would almost certainly want a hefty increase in alcohol excise tax in order to fund their involvement in the cause. Possibly this could lead to more inflation, or if alcohol becomes very expensive, then it could lead to more theft-related crime.

   • Alcoholics Anonymous is not for every Alcoholic, obviously ,,,, But it does have the highest success rate in keeping the drug addicts addicted to the drug Alcohol dry…. Why?, ,,, because it is run by Alcoholics for Alcoholics ,,, and they understand the disease at a personal level ,,,, they Understand.

     Other forms of addiction/alcoholic treatments such as cognitive thought/thinking programs ,,, residential and non-residential rehabs etc all have lower success rates.

     Out of all drug addictions booze has the lowest success rates for rehabilitation ,,,, why?, because it is so ingrained in our society ,,,, try saying ‘no thanks’ to booze at 21sts birthdays, weddings, watching the rugby etc etc ,,, you will be nagged and badgered by the ‘one wont hurt’ crowd.

     And if you listen to Alcoholics who describe the circumstances of their ‘slips’ or relapses ,,, then a very common scenario is them having a shit week and being in the supermarket purchasing food ,,, and the booze isle cracking their resolve in their weakened state.

     As Sgt Alistair Lawn states ,,, Alcohol is not just another food/grocery product ,,,, it’s a drug. https://youtu.be/tHI-4NWB8n0

5. B-E-L-I-E-V-E all councils…

6. Would we still be allowed to make our own booze or would that be verboten as the state can not make an income from it? Or is it Grass Grub and Gruel and a daily recitation of ‘be kind’ for the rest of eternity?

   • I think the tin foil headwear might be a little too tight.

   • Relax Brat. The elderberry is flowering right now, it makes a lovely wine. Keep your potato peelings, but beware the apple, it’s cider has been the downfall of many a young girl, so drink it alone under a sheltering hedgerow, although your mum and ancient auntie may just appreciate a mugful, but don’t let them drive afterwards, and if they start to sing, be glad.

   • Good thinking RB. We older ones remember hearing about Hokonui Hooch or the like. And taxes excise etc has always been popular with the fund gatherers for the state. Always look for the money interest in everything eh – shouldn’t be ignored. But making your own brings forth true bonhomie amongst people I hear.

7. An interesting Stats NZ chart here:
   https://i0.wp.com/www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/alcoholconsumption.png?ssl=1

   What it says: Alcohol consumption was steadily falling until a) The purchasing age was dropped from 20 to 18 and b) They started selling booze in supermarkets.

   • But let’s lower the voting age to 16, so they can vote for booze.

     Why not, the age of consent is 16. /s

   • The statistics actually say that alcohol consumption went down

     1 late 1980’s – mid 1990’s because of Rogernomics
     2. mid 1990’s – market rents

     Stuff all other impacts, up or down

     And why only to 2011?

   • Yes, Andrew and who dropped the age and who allowed for it to be sold everywhere literally?

     • covid is pa. Yes. It was that dreadful woman from Ashburton who said let’s introduce hormone-laden teenagers to alcohol, and she has a lot to answer for in one or two other areas too.

8. But legalize pot which is implicated in mental health issues eh Chloe.
   This is a victory for some Karens and millennials and other non drinkers who use MDMA and weed so fuck the boomers drug of choice.

   Won’t do anything to reduce the real harm from alcohol, but does open the door for more social engineering when they attack alcohol sponsorship of sport- physical team sport being another pet hate of the woke.

   • Blah, blah. Relative to alcohol, pot does way less harm and it’s nothing to do with one being illegal and one being legal. Chloe S has been arguing for decriminalisation to treat any ill affects of pot use as a health issue. She’s not inconsistent on this.

     • Consistently hypocritical I agree.

9. “Communities given greater powers to reduce alcohol harm”
   No… No, no, no ! Alcohol should be given greater powers to reduce harm from communities.
   And to that point. We should dispatch large boats, like the one’s Felcher Chunder uses to ship wood chups bro. We should send them to South America instead to return here with 50,000 tons of cocaine each. And while on that subject, how about we try to heal the rifts between Afghanistan and we ‘God ! Ble$$ ! America ! ‘ sycophants by shipping a similar quantity of good and proper opium back to here. They’d love us for that. We could sit around smoking Kif ( Pot) all day instead of buying, then selling, real estate all day. Wouldn’t that be kiff? ( It’s also slang word. Look it up.)
   I’m also thinking bales of proper, tropical sativa from South East Asia which could share bulk carrier space with the thousands of tons of proper E, not the bath salts garbage our tyrannical, barbaric and medieval laws that only serve to titivate the power freaks and abusive narcissistic sadists who are our cops and politicians can guarantee we’ll poison ourselves on. And tanker loads of good reds and whites from France, Italy and Spain too please. Something to wash down the pills. I have a question, where’s the best magic mushroom spores? Bring em over. Spread em around. God only knows, we need them.
   To further cement my assertions that all drugs are good drugs, just look at Nu Zillind without them. We’re a boring, ugly, miserable, bleak, uninspiring trudging, mindlessly shopping, pointlessly shuffling, bleary eyed shamble of sociopathic narcissists, at best, with a talent and class deficit of such vacuum that I’m amazed we haven’t been sucked up the vortex of it. We dress as if we just don’t care, and not in that good way. We slouch despondently while bent double to walk along what must surely be the most boring, uninspiring foot paths found anywhere and as we do so, we slouch past the ugliest, most unimaginative, advertising cloaked shop fronts that would challenge any lingerie selling, hairdresser shop front anywhere in Iran. Our grey faced wattle wobbling slipper slouchers and frumpish Doris Date Sconners eye up the young trying to be vibrant with all the warmth of the executioner eyeing up the watch on the wrist of the doomed accused. We Kiwi’s underline the trans-dimensional, multi-universe concept of a kind of dull, mindlessly matching, dreariness and yes, we do also smell funny of mold and old arse holes. Sit beside anyone standing on the bus, I dare you.
   The Banks have spun us through their washing machines and we’ve come out bereft of our colour, our style, our panache. We’ve been dullified. Duhffed. Bedrearied. Suffocated by our own shallow breathing. When (If) we become excited, we immediately need therapy, a cup of tea and a wee lie down. Any stirring in the heart, the mind, the soul and/or the under pants is seen as a terrible thing to be banned, damned and pharmacologically drugged into a fuzzy, out of focus emotional/intellectual waste land where nothing goes, except the banks and nothing returns except our money which we can only weakly wave goodbye to.
   Try this. Google Earth street view Levin. Now. Google Earth street view Lisbon. Same but different.
   One is where all drugs are illegal and the only way to have fun and play is with booze.
   The other, is where all drugs have been decriminalised and are now a medical health issue rather than a criminal justice issue. See if you can spot the difference?

   • I’m with you countryboy – drug prohibition is killing this country, literally. just like the cost of shelter and the free-ly manipulated markets. regulate it, test it, tax it and move on. It’s not the drugs that are fucking everyone up – it’s the greed – and the immature wannabe gangster mafia way we deal with them. New Zealand needs to grow up.

10. more local corruption will arise…still I suppose local councillors getting a bung is no worse than other pollies getting one.
    putting it back on local authorities is an act of cowardice by pollies to avoid them having to take action against their benefactors.

11. I want to buy alcoholic beverages when I want or need to.

    I don’t have a drinking problem, from a young age I have always been able to control my drinking.

    However I do remember a time when one couldn’t by booze on Sundays! Which annoyed me, because problem drinkers always, always, always have access to booze. But I couldn’t pick up 1/2 a dozen beers and a bottle of wine gor an impromptu Sunday arvo BBQ

    • boris says as he pisses in the pot plant and vomits behind the couch

    • You just had to know where to go …

12. Just ban all alcohol and drugs XXX

    • mind your own business or bring an army. maybe you could team up with CCP or Putin or Martyn’s jackbooted booze squads. effing scum telling people how they should live and what the can do to themselves. I take it you’re anti abortion, tattoos, and long hair at boys schools.

      • billid You were born without your consent. Then when you were being born the medicos had to follow correct procedures to ensure the big probability you would be healthy and your mother too. If the state had bothered to help your parents when they were raising you and discussed queries they had, you would likely be a less angry person now.

        If you don’t want to care about your own health and have a full life just being you but have to rely on drugs to get through, why bother. No one is stopping you if you want to be decisive about limiting your future. But you do live in a community that is a bit co-operative still, so others need help and consideration from you and in return, contrariwise; only you are too contrary. You would feel like Kierkegaard perhaps:

        “Listen to the cry of a woman in labor at the hour of giving birth — look at the dying man’s struggle at his last extremity, and then tell me whether something that begins and ends thus could be intended for enjoyment.” ― Soren Kierkegaard

        Also this should speak all the questions you have ever thought to voice. He has done it for you.
        One sticks a finger into the ground to smell what country one is in; I stick my finger into the world- it has no smell. Where am I? What does it mean to say: the world? What is the meaning of the world? Who tricked me into this whole thing and leaves me standing here? Who am I? How did I get into the world?

        Why was I not asked about it, why was I not informed of the rules and regulations and just thrust into the ranks as if I had been bought from a peddling shanghaier of human beings? How did I get involved in the big enterprise called actuality? Why should I be involved? Isn’t it a matter of choice? If I am compelled to be involved, where is the manager- I have something to say about this. Is there no manager? To whom shall I make my complaint? After all, life is a debate- may I ask that my observations be considered? If one has to take life as it is, would it not be best to find out how things go?…
        Repetition p. 200 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetition_(Kierkegaard_book)

        Finally read about the poem Desiderata and how some people take advantage of others even when blessed with a good life themselves , which os seen at all levels of society. We just have to get used to it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desiderata

        • Desiderata – I wrote it out a few times in detention. I found it a droll simplistic piece of common sense at age 15. It still is.

          As for Kierkegaard – thankfully the world has moved on and we can objectively define much of what was his “existential angst”, we do know how things go, although you wouldn’t know it reading some of the drivel written in here.

          I used to get stressed out all the time when I thought winning was important. I wanted to try to win and help my kids win. Once I figured out it wasn’t about winning or losing, it was about teaching these kids about being men, that’s when I started to relax.
          -Snoop Dog-

    • XstraightXedgeX “ Just ban all alcohol and drugs.” Right on. And everybody shut up or we’ll put the Cat Woman from V U’s Extremist Centre onto you. Just keep eating W’s chocolate, burning books, riding unicorns, and obsessing about sex and gender.

13. Multiply qualified NZRN (retd) writing: the most significant drug/poison in N.Z. has always been & remains ALCOHOL. Wherever I walk, I see males with beer-belies. They will get 1) Diabetes, 2) heart conditions, 3) Strokes & therefore be an increasing burden on Vote Health.

    I maintained an extensive wine cellar for many years. When I was diagnosed with Mutiple Sclerosis in 1983, I stopped intake of alcohol in any form. Many nurses live alone & drink alone. Therein lies many developing health problems country-wide.

14. Agreed locals should determine the booze sale policy in their area without being deep-pocketed out of their democratic choices.

    However, the rest of the article seems to have been written by a druggie, wowser. Alcohol in supermarkets is bloody convenient. The buying power of supermarkets means the booze cost is lower and leaves me more money for food and soap. We can see what a super tax on cigarette addiction has done for the ram-raided dairy owners – surely we don’t want to make that situation any worse.

    This country was “founded” on blokes working in the bush or gold prospecting for a month then coming to town and blowing all their pay on a binge of booze and dancing girls. The World War One, soldiers were shipped home just in time to vote and save the nation from prohibition. It’s unfortunate that there are some on the left who would like to ban a working man from having a beer.

15. ?

16. bro ?

    • bruh ?

17. Booze Barrens should pay really high taxes for social Carnage. That tired old 80’s drop Steinlrger needs to be removed from rugby shirts. But ultimately peeps need to drink in moderation and keep exercise up.

18. pointless – just tax it and move on – same with all drugs.

19. When either the govt is your daddy or you want it to be your daddy. Govern me harder daddy.

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