Ummmmmmmm. So are we at war with Russia?
Russia-Ukraine war: Off-duty New Zealand soldier killed in Ukraine
A Kiwi soldier has been killed in Ukraine, the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) says.
The soldier, who was on a period of leave without pay at the time, was not on active duty with the NZDF.
“At this early stage, there is still more information to be gathered in order to understand the circumstances fully,” NZDF said in a statement.
“The New Zealand Army will work closely with the family of the soldier to offer support at this deeply sad time.”
The answer is no, but that we should be asking it at all perhaps is a reminder of how much more violent and dangerous the war in Ukraine is now entering as a phase.
Putin has been dangerously weakened and empowered by this risky military adventure he’s embarked upon for deeply personal reasons, visions and geopolitical strategies.
His grip domestically on power has never been greater, his command of the economy has been insulating and his vision of a new reign of chaos where Russia rises is forming, however his old crony corrupt Army has struggled and he’s increasingly being forced to commit more ruthless acts of violence.
Currently Putin can’t mobilise the entire Army because it would cause backlash from the mothers of the sons sent to war. Politically and culturally these mothers are very powerful, however if the Ukrainians commit a domestic attack on Russia, Putin can use that to justify full mobilisation.
Assassinating the daughter of Putin’s advisors is getting dangerously close to that…
Car bomb kills daughter of ‘spiritual guide’ to Putin’s Ukraine invasion – Russian media
Russian authorities said Sunday they had opened a murder investigation after the daughter of influential, ultra-nationalist philosopher Alexander Dugin was killed by a car bomb on the outskirts of Moscow.
…Putin of course is infamously accused of bombing his own people in Moscow 1999 to generate a false flag invasion of Chechnya. Nothing would swing Russian support into a fully fledged mobilisation like a domestic terror attack on Russia.
Soooooooooo, with the triggers this thin for a full outbreak of war, should NZ have citizens fighting as mercenaries?
De-escalation is the only tool here, war will only begets more war.
We shouldn’t be fuelling this fire for American Military Industrial Complex profit margins.
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I note the sad and completely unnecessary death of a NZ citizen in the Ukraine.
Donbass never did anything to New Zealand, but this country nevertheless chooses to aid its persecutors for no reason all.
The Ukrainian government has for the last 8 years been attacking its own citizens in the Donbass. Russia has come to their aid, and not before time.
100% D’Esterre
Not the first blood nose of the twenty first century and it won’t be the last.
Correction d’Esterre the Donbas has been a breeding ground for thugs and criminals. Look at the cages they are building to try illegally the foreign POWs in the Philharmonic Hall. These are cultureless, ruthless bastards who will sentence the POWs to death with their kangaroo court.
Cantabrian (shouldn’t that be Cantabrigian? Unless of course you actually are in Cambridge)
I fear that you too do not know as much about the Donbass as you think you do. We have extended family connections into that area: I think that we have a better “handle” on it.
“….the cages they are building…. in the Philharmonic Hall.”
Perhaps you aren’t aware of this: cages are widely used in the Russian court system, so no surprises that they’d be used in the Donbass (which was Russian territory, back in the day).
“….to try illegally the foreign POWs…”
Illegal? Not a bit of it! Those foreigners are there illegally: what did they think would happen to them if they were caught?
Unluckily for them, they’re not being tried in Russia, which doesn’t have the death penalty. On the other hand the DNR still does and doubtless the LNR is the same. These are independent territories: Russia has recognised them as such. It is that recognition which makes the SMO legal under the terms of the UN charter.
The foreign POWs were not there illegally. They are entitled to be treated as POWs under the Geneva convention. If you want to defend a bunch of thugs and criminals in the mafia state which is the Donbas, you should be ashamed of yourself. Zelensky is Jewish – so he can’t be a Nazi. On the other hand,a Russian Nazi – Zhirinovsky, to his horror discovered he was Jewish.
Cantabrian: “Zelensky is Jewish – so he can’t be a Nazi.”
What has being Jewish got to do with anything? Of course he’s a Nazi: it’s a common misconception that only non-jews can be Nazis. People labour under the misapprehension that there weren’t Jews in the Hitler regime. Of course there were.
And what is Israel, if not a Nazi state? That is how it behaves, that’s for sure, even it it wouldn’t so characterise itself.
I do wonder why you and others believe this stuff. The Donbass is an independent area: foreigners there to fight them are illegals. We here would take the same view.
Well said
Truly unfortunate for this man died for the side that rains butterfly mines down on the innocent children of the Donbass. That’s bad for your soul.
Mohammed Khan: this story puts me in mind of a Joan Baez song, popular in my youth: Be Not Too Hard
Inter alia:
“Be not too hard/ when he blindly dies/ fighting for things he does not own”
This man blundered into a conflict which he clearly didn’t know anything about, or understand at all. If he had, he’d have been fighting on the other side. As things stand, he’s paid with his life for his ignorance. I feel so sad for his surviving family.
Nicky Hager wrote a book called “Other People’s Wars”. This is exactly the sort of conflict he had in mind.
It isn’t anything to do with us here. We should all of us – including the government – refrain from supporting the Ukrainian regime in any way, and just stay out of it.
100% D’Esterre
That you got five approving comments on this. Tyranny invades democracy — simple for the Left. Rallying call. Why all the twistedness?
What brought the greatest period for the common person? The victory of democracy in the West over Naziism in nineteen-forty-five. IT encouraged internal demo-cracy. Don’t be so mixed up. The EU had forgotten about solidarity against tyranny, but instantly remembered how you need to respond to fascism on the invasion, from memory of the thirties. With all the internal repercussions of that — the people matter, forty years after they forgot.
sumsuch: I fear that you do not know as much about the Ukraine as you think you do. Nor about WW2, come to that.
The current Ukrainian regime is fascist: neo-nazi by their own admission. It’s evident that you’re unaware of the fact that, for the past 8 years, since the US -sponsored putsch in Kiev, the regime has been attacking its own citizens in the Donbass. Russia has come to their rescue, and not before time, in our view. We have family in that part of the world.
“The victory of democracy in the West over Naziism in nineteen-forty-five.”
Anent WW2, it was the Red Army which crushed the Germans. The other allies were just a sideshow: I recently heard a historian use exactly those words, saying that historians now accept this fact.
As to Nazism, regrettably it wasn’t completely extinguished, as we now see in the Ukraine.
To understand what actually happened in Europe during that period, this is the book you need to read:
“The Devil’s Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America’s Secret Government”
Book by David Talbot.
It’ll be in your local library. I urge you to read it.
America. The only Country late to a World War. Twice. Russia, 27 million dead, the US a paltry 700 thousand killed or wounded. Remind me again how the US won the War?
At least Americans cared about soldiers that die unnecessarily. and Amwrica did not kill released prisoners of war for fear of them being enemy agents
Absolutely wrong about Ukraine being Nazis. Those people got a laughable percent of the vote in the last election. Despicable, Martyn or someone else didn’t correct you.
I know my history back and front, better than you. Quite right about the importance of the Russians in our victory in WWll.
‘Better than you’ because you didn’t notice how Ukraine has moved on and you are spewing shit for Putin. On a Left site.
100% sumsuch!
Sumsuch: “Those people got a laughable percent of the vote in the last election.”
And yet they occupy many prominent government positions, to which they’ve been appointed by the Zelensky regime.
Zelensky ran for the presidency on a “make peace with Russia” ticket. That’s how he got so many votes. Except in Lvov, of course. But there’s little doubt that he’s been suborned by the neo-Nazi groups. Just have a look some time at the extent of the banning in which he specialises. And at the appalling language laws.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and all that…..
“I know my history back and front….”
I doubt that. Were that the case, you wouldn’t hold the views that you do.
The Zelensky regime, ‘elected’ in a US-run ‘election’ which didn’t allow the people of the regions of Donetsk and Lugansk it claims it is entitled to rule to vote (as mandated by the Minsk accords) has banned all left-wing parties.
But yeah, sure it’s a ‘democracy’, American shill.
All I can say is, “Afghanistan Mission Creep”.
When is an enlisted soldier not a soldier? When he’s on leave to fight in a War!!
I smell bullshit!!
If he was off duty then he had every right to be over there and very sad that he was killed.
Not so sure James, I asked my navy son who said that whilst part of NZ Forces on leave or otherwise there was a prohibition on service elsewhere. Don’t know what current scenario is but it will come out.
I believe you are correct .It is sad he died but as a serving soldier he is not at liberty to do what he wants .
Defence force personnel along with certain civil servants are barred from travelling to certain countries, ie Cuba. NZ Soldiers certainly wouldn’t be allowed to go to a war zone, unless on official duty. However if you’re on leave & overseas there is no way of stopping there is no one to stop you.
Incorrect he did not have leave to go and fight in another war!
Just speculating maybe he joined for awhile the international group to get some actual hostilities experience. The Russians would see him as just a merc. Despite giving weapons and training to Kiev we are not at war. NZ is designated an unfriendly country though.
I mean someone dead and I’m not cool with it. Like it or not we have an interest in the direction of it all. It’s basically shit Europe down. Either NATO gets the fuck out or war properly. Dafuq???
He’s just old enough to have gotten his rocks off killing innocent Afghanis for the NZDF, depending on when he joined. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t.
Where is the evidence that Dugin is an advisor to Putin?
He’s not, he doesn’t hold any Kremlin position .He was kicked out of his teaching position at St Petersburg University because he was too radical.
He criticises Putin, saying he doesn’t go far enough and has placated the west too much.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Darya was the designated target here. She was put on the Ukrainian “Peacemaker” database, which has published the addresses and details of many accredited journalists.
She reported in Mariupol, from inside the Azovstal, after it had been captured by the Russians .
Putin is not the only one who should be triggered by the death of a Russian civilian , we all should condemn this act of terrorism,and assassination of a journalist, otherwise who are we as a people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myrotvorets
The UN and EU have repeatedly asked the Ukraine govt to close down Myrotvorets to no avail
We are at war with Russia, only in the same gutless way that the US and UK is, providing weapons, money that our own homeless could well do with, training and intelligence.And amplifying the western propaganda
Are there any other Kiwi soldiers”on leave” who have become victim to their own govt’s propaganda?
“I wouldn’t be surprised if Darya was the designated target here. She was put on the Ukrainian “Peacemaker” database, which has published the addresses and details of many accredited journalists.”
That seems to be Russia’s assessment… https://www.rt.com/russia/561318-dugina-suspect-vovk-video/
D J S
Dugin doesnt have to be on the Kremin payroll to be Putin’s advisor.
Yes, but Occam’s razor suggests his advisors would be people he’s actually met at least once, not random former university professors.
millsy.: It’s best to take with a handful of salt anything you read in Western media outlets about Russia and the Kremlin (though they never say which Kremlin they’re talking about).
The best riposte is a version of that which Mandy Rice-Davies used all those years ago: “well, they WOULD say that, wouldn’t they!”
Francesca you are trying to work things out about Dugina but jumping to some absurd conclusions. Nobody knows the truth – least of all you. We do have precedent however with Putin blowing up four apartment blocks in 1999 and blaming the Chechens as Martyn aptly mentions. Such false flag operations are not uncommon in Putin’s Russia and why did Dugin change cars?
Cantabrian- ‘We do have precedent however with Putin blowing up four apartment blocks in 1999 and blaming the Chechens as Martyn aptly mentions. Such false flag operations are not uncommon in Putin’s Russia and why did Dugin change cars?’
And you believe in Martyn BS. Why don’t you Banderite supporters get educated in the Ukraine,Russian affairs instead of pissing anti-Russian sentiments.
Stephen, once again you’ve got it wrong. The evidence is in ‘Blowing up Russia’ by Litvinenko who was targeted and poisoned by Putin. I suggest you read it instead of making baseless accusations. FYI I have a Masters in Russian.
OK buddy, ‘false flag operations’ are totally real and not a conspiracy theory, but only when your CIA accuses your people’s enemies of doing them (nobody look at Operation Northwoods and all the other stuff the Americans planned).
Or Operation Gladio!!
Why did Dugin change cars?
He didn’t .
He came to the festival in a friend’s car.He left in the same car. The car Darya was driving was her own, registered in her name, though her father borrowed it from time to time .
As for the so called false flag apartment bombings the perpetrator has never been found and nothing either way has been proven .
Francesca: saw this in a comment thread on Moon of Alabama yesterday:
“Found on Slavyangrad…
Ukrainian terrorist Natalya Vovk found dead in Austria with 17 stab wounds, – Austrian publication Express.
They are removing witnesses. No loose ends”
No way of knowing if it’s true. The Austrian government won’t confirm it, last I looked.
Cantabrian (or Cantabrigian): “…..Putin blowing up four apartment blocks in 1999 and blaming the Chechens….”
Oh dear. You really don’t know anything about that situation, do you? That’s where reliance on Western media and commentators gets you: misinformed. Ignorant, even.
The conflict in Chechnya was driven by an Islamist uprising (supported by the usual Wahabbist suspects). It was they who carried out those bombings. At that time, Yeltsin was president of Russia. I remember those events vividly.
D’Esterre prove that that you have family connections with the Donbas. I don’t believe you. ‘Blowing up Russia’ was written by a Russian – Alexander Litvinenko a colonel in the KGB. No Western involvement. He was viewed as important enough to be taken out by the FSB. Don’t show your ignorance d’Esterre.
Cantabrian: “….prove that that you have family connections with the Donbas. I don’t believe you.”
Believe what you like. I know my connections: I don’t need to prove anything to you. Though I will point out that pretty much the whole of the Eastern Ukraine was still part of Russia when my family connections were born there, long before the Revolution.
Litvinenko? What on earth has he to do with anything? I didn’t mention him: that’s a bit of a non sequitur on your part, isn’t it?
No d’Esterre the FSB did the bombings, blamed it on the Chechens while Putin was head of the FSB and then became Prime Minister. It was a blatant power grab. ‘Blowing up Russia’ was banned in Russia. I wonder why? Then Litvinenko was poisoned by the FSB. I’ll lend you a copy d’Esterre, you obviously need to read it!
Francesca, I noted that Bombers source was CNN which as a source of Bidens propaganda would make even Geobbels look like a paragon of rectitude.
You are so amusing Nick J aka Vlad.
Its always richly rewarding to have been name called…Vlad… how lovely. It simply confirms that the name caller has nothing of substance to argue.
Nick+J: “It simply confirms that the name caller has nothing of substance to argue.”
You’re exactly right: name-calling is a dead giveaway.
Go to a country where a hot war is happening and participate–really–What the fuck might go wrong would anyone with half a brain imagine…?
Dominic Abelen’s case needs investigating and the specific details publicised to make more sense of this. Why the Defence Force wrap around for an off duty person who died on some apparent personal adventurist mission.
I agree totally, this man buggered off to fight in a war. Why is the PM making statements and the Minister of Foreign Affairs.
Complete and utter madness. Still if you learn how to kill then I suppose you want to go and do it.
The understanding of what is going on on both sides certainly won’t be known by any gungho kiwi fighting machine.
You need to read widely including things like ‘covertaction’ magazine. Don’t just read the MSM, they take one view and it is dictated to them.
Yes Putin is a shit but he is not the only shit involved frankly.
Michael: “Yes Putin is a shit…”
I’m wondering why you’d think this. Do you know him personally? It sounds as if this opinion comes from Western media.
Evidently, enough Russian citizens disagree with you to have re-elected him over and over since he first stood for the presidency.
Obviously enough were scared to vote any other way
Trevor: “Obviously enough were scared to vote any other way.”
It’s a democracy, you know. And good luck with rigging the elections every year in a country of that size.
The CIA did it for Yeltsin, though that was just for the one election, as I recall. And it was quite upfront about it, too. Repeatedly rigging elections is too bloody difficult.
And you know the Russians won’t be told what to do, won’t obey laws they consider to be ridiculous and pointless. Have a look-see what happened with the QR codes in that country: dead, long before they were abandoned here.
NZDF mercenary gets the chop on ‘day off’…cue weeping parents and screeds of ‘good family man’ ‘aspiring rugby player’ ‘DJ’ etc etc etc and a drip feed of the defence force admitting he’s special forces and on duty(I don’t know this but previous experience suggests NZDF will lie up to the last ditch)
Hey Gagarin, guess your name gives a clue as to your allegiances.
Seems like you are a heartless bastard as well as super cynical.
I hope for your sake you don’t lose a loved one, no matter the circumstances.
But I suppose given the attitude you’re showing now you would probably say ah well what the heck that’s life.
no mike I’m not a heartless bastard, and don’t give me ‘the families grief’ they were proud he wore the green clothes, well your job is to get shot at, and on the subject of grieving families why do you care about the kiwi but not the masses of ukrainian and russian families similarly grieving.
and yup fighting for a foreign country in a war we haven’t declared is a mercenary.
maximum points for knowing the name gagain though (sarcasm)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI3vRaTg0tI
D J S
David Stone: thanks so much for that link. Not one of theirs I’d heard before. Below, another, to which I referred earlier, from the days of yore.
https://youtu.be/vZqh0B79QUk
Well said Mike. Mind you this Gagarin doesn’t know a word of Russian. Anyone who supports Putin is a heartless bastard.
cantab please link to any post here where I have praised putin…g’wan darezya..you won’t find one so shit or get off the pot..your strawman argument is burning down.
ps cantab I don’t speak russian but at least I can get by in english..
Agreed for once Mike. Bomber needs to give some respect to the family – perhaps a bit of breathing space before politicizing their loss?
Totally disagree. I hate all this crap ‘he was a wonderful man blah blah blah blah’
Frankly he was so wonderful he went to fight some one elses war without knowing the full story at all.
He learnt how to shoot people and ultimately they were commanded to be there to be shot at!
The NZDF effectively praised him, this was already political since the very first news report.
Mike Walker is it possible that this foolish NZer that was killed in Ukraine was affiliated to a ‘white supremacist’ outfit and was there at the behest of white nationalist nazi the banderites? Ever heard of Operation Gladio???? It was a NATO programme after WW2 that provided assistance to ex-Neo-Nazi and fascist Mussolini supporters with far-right ideology and were used to target communist sympathizers & left-wing organisation with terrorist attacks. Ever heard of the ‘Stay Behinds’??? What about the year of the lead???
Something for you to consider as NATO has been training these neo-nazi fascist for decades and its reflected in Ukraine with Banderite supporters running amok and their hatred for the Russians or a derogatory term used by these fascist (ruskies) and then everyone else that not of their kind.
Perhaps the NZ military (and others?) are actually rotating people through for combat experience? Some barely articulate bloke on RNZ this morning suggested that there could be tens of kiwis there. All on unpaid leave?
Wow — if the Russian caught him alive, he could have been executed as a Terrorist/Mercenary…I was told NZDF are NOT allowed to do this to prevent difficult talks between leaders of nations.
Wow — if the Russian caught him alive, he could have been executed as a Terrorist/Mercenary…I was told NZDF are NOT allowed to do this to prevent difficult talks between leaders of nations.
This mercenary and his little mission did not represent me as a New Zealander or fight for my freedom, security, values, philosophy or future, nor does the New Zealand Defence Force in Ukraine for that matter (Defence is in the name for a start, not offense).
Europe was to be the greatest Empire the world had ever seen. The tyranny of Europe being turned once again to the path of annihilation. Of course The Queen of England is the only human being worthy of inheriting such a grand empire, a Union that took 2000 years to establish, Queen Elizabeth The Second, should have been the one to reap the rewards, but in the end it is a low Russian boarder guard in Colonel Vladimir Putin that has torn The European Union away, and tore the potential away.
Vladimir Putin, his military IQ, close quarters combat, political finesse has to be considered average at best. This average chess player who has defeated Europes potential and the greatest potential of all empires.
Military experts, political experts and psychological experts will eagerly come force claiming to have predicted Putin’s response and what I believe is the perfect plan as we want h Europe crumble in one winter.
It’s going to take some time to come to grips with the injuries Europe is suffering. Although Queen Elizabeth could only say that she is slightly impressed with the rise of a colonel. What’s more Putin’s successes is brushed of as luck.
No, Putin is not a Michael Jordan of Geniuses. He’s not on the level of Eisenhower, Bradley, not even Patton. Putin does not belong in the company of genius.
No it is us who is conflicted. it doesn’t matter how terrible Putin is or how wonderful western military aid is, the conflict amongst us is responsible for the destruction of Europe. An average Chess player takes advantage of that.
Sam- Jeez dude where did you dig that trash from? Putin is an average chess player?? So you’ve opine on a Russian leader that has changed and challenged the direction of US hegemony. You do know that Russia been checkmating the USA around the globe specifically in the M.E. a strategically and important part of the Empire petrol-dollar fiasco.
Guess who MBS favors? Look at Syria being brought back into the Arab community. And ‘Apartheid Israel’ slowly but surely realizing that it can’t just bully it’s neighbors without serious repercussion because of the ‘Multipolarity’ that is upon the world and the empire has to concede it’s hegemony to these rival powers like, Russia and China. Yip you are right about European exceptionalism coming to an end and good riddance
Vist Vienna and then Islamabad and then tell me European Exceptionalism is coming to an end.
James, Not sure what is really meant by European exceptionalism but you’ve drawn a stark contrast. I can contrast Vienna to Beijing and New York in the last year. Three imperial capitals, one past, one present, one maybe the future. I was expecting New York to be shiny, it was shabby. I expected Beijing to be shabby, it was next century. Vienna, sort of picturesque and museum like, people included. In a multipolar world they will all have to look to their merits.
Europeans have already smashed Europe to bits 3 times. Two world wars and the deforestation of Europe. Pity.
Stephen: “Sam- Jeez dude where did you dig that trash from?”
Indeed. I have long experience of Sam’s comments. For the most part, I’ve stopped responding to them, because I can seldom make sense of them. The above comment exemplifies that. I don’t know what it means.
D+Ds essay style is to literally Read between the lines so she can claim that people have written things they didn’t even write then dump shit tons of trauma story’s on everyone so that they feel sorry for Dzz nuts.
Look, Putin made a meat grinder out of Ukraine and you reckon he’s a someone.
Putin’s political skills are brutal and lack finesse Preferring to just put his political rivals in jail and corrupt the rules around term limits.
Don’t get me wrong Putin is in great shape for his age he just lacks composure under fire. All the greats, Queen Elizabeth in particular are softly spoken, especially during brutal times. That is not a characteristic that Putin posse’s. When Putin made the call to arms for the invasion of Ukraine Infront of the Military and Russia, softly spoken he was not. Putin just doesn’t belong amongst them.
So we’ve got our finger stuck in the meat grinder rather sending material and now men. All to feed the meat grinder, slowly. That’s not how America was supposed to defeat Russian Nuclear response. They was supposed to do a “Shock and Awe” Iraq Desert Storm style and take out all high value military targets on day one then invade but but we can’t because there is conflict around the tactics that should be used to reduce Nuclear weapons stockpiles.
Poverty hits different as nations get wealthier and I guess nuclear disarmament in the 21st century has come what was the anti slavery-emancipation movement of the 20th century.
Ditto.
Well said .
live by the sword, die by the sword.
I think everyone smells a rat here. Was this guy genuinely “officially” not there on behave of NZ? Or is he some sort of international “black operative”, for which NZ can disavow any and all involvement? Maybe I watch too many movies, but this sort of thing stinks of CIA “Black ops”.
As I said before, it looks increasingly likely that this war will end up being outsourced on both sides to mercenary forces. This will be the first privatised war between nations in the modern era
Might be interesting Millsy, last time that happened was Quatratento Italy where condotierri (mercenary) leaders were known to decide the result of tomorrow’s battle over a bottle or two, then divide the spoils. Either way the people suffer.
It’s a ‘good’ war in my view. Only sorry, for whatever reason, I’m not there. And the reasons involve all the worst vices — comfort, cowardice, laziness etc. The same reasons we haven’t addressed our species’ worst, mortal problems.
I Just watched this…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl-9GIvnJ2k.
The host ( a Ukrainian ) makes an important point about the lasting bitterness and enmity that is being created by the war . I expect that Russia did not quite anticipate how it could be prolonged by this intervention of massive arms supplies and covert underhand participation of America’s allies.
If no one else had got involved it would probably have been over in a week or two ; the Donbass would have been secured with the least bloodshed possible , most Ukrainians would have recognised the need and legitimacy of securing the safety and autonomy of Donetsk and Lugansk and the ruffled political feathers would have been smoothed down quite soon.
The intervention of the West in the way we have has made it nearly impossible diplomatically and politically for Zenensky to negotiate and accept the inevitable loss of the Donbass and Crimea. All unwilling provinces to be part of the undemocratic government installed by the US in Kiev and having no representation by any of these provinces in the present administration.
All of Ukraine is littered with ethnic Russians . The social damage we are doing to Ukraine by interfering will last for generations.
D J S
David Stone: “…Russia did not quite anticipate how it could be prolonged by this intervention of massive arms supplies and covert underhand participation of America’s allies.”
Indeed. It seems that Russia didn’t expect the US and its allies to be quite so bloody stupid. Although it has long experience of the US being stupid in so many other arenas, it might have known that the West couldn’t help itself. The West doesn’t care a jot for the lives expended in the Ukraine. Neither does Kiev.
“….accept the inevitable loss of the Donbass and Crimea.”
It’s worth remembering that Kiev had troops on the borders of both areas, and fully intended to retake them by force. Although we didn’t find out about this until after the beginning of the SMO, that’s why Russia acted as it did, and when it did.
Kiev and its Western allies have been very bad faith actors over many years.
The good soldier fought for democracy like our olds in WW ll. A hero.
All these mostly unaware comments explain why Kiwi Blog get four hundred reactionary comments, Lprent gets a hundred folk who don’t think the people he bans matter and we get twenty-six.
well my dads fought and killed nazis he didn’t fight on their side in ww2 sumsuch
sumsuch: “The good soldier fought for democracy like our olds in WW ll. A hero.”
No. He didn’t,. He may have thought that, because he was in thrall to US/UK propaganda. But it isn’t the truth, unfortunately. And no: not a hero.
Those “olds” in WW2: that’s my parents’ generation. I assure you that they didn’t fight for democracy: they enlisted because NZ was still part of the British Empire, and our government had thrown its lot in with the Empire.
I’d add that nobody in my extended family served overseas during WW2, though an uncle was in the army, but based in NZ We had an exemption from the NZ government. This was because, during WW1, not so many years prior, the eldest four of my father’s older brothers went overseas: one came home. The government sent a letter to my grandmother, advising her that no further sacrifice would be required of our family.
I don’t care if he was Captain of the All blacks, a stand up guy, gods gift to his family or god himself. He went there to kill people. If your mission is to kill and someone kills you first.. Too bad.
I’m not.
An ignorant well meaning Kiwi died in Ukraine, oh so sorry.
What about the truth and propaganda about it all?
Ukraine has been under US influence since Yeltsin and Russia suspected rightly the agenda of trying to influence powers there. Russia is defending itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRg7pTZ91oo
Mike, you are woefully ignorant about Russian/Ukrainian history. I’d be ashamed to show said ignorance if I were you!
Seems Cantab you’ve had a go at everybody so far declaring them wrong, ignorant etc. I’d wager that every one of us has a more precise view of reality. In short better informed. Excellent, enjoy your view, it amuses us.
I 100% support Cantabrian’s comments on here and in fact he is one of very few who has a firm grip on reality / has from his comments actually spent time in Russia and is not blinded by a hatred of the US to the point of supporting an invasion of an independent country by an authoritarian regime headed by someone who regularly assassinates any political opponents.
Still can’t stand the Crusaders but . .
I love the Crusaders, they play reality based football.
‘firm grip on reality’ translates as ‘agrees with my feel feels’
Thanks James. My grandfather fought against the Bolsheviks for the White Army and my grandmother was born in Ukraine. I am eligible for citizenship in both countries. I know the one I would choose!
good cantab stop posting here and get yer combat boots on.
Nick J ‘a more precise view of reality’. What a joke. Do you know any Russian or Ukrainian? Can you translate Russian sources? I’ll wager you can’t so put up or shut up!
Here we go.. I’ve got a Masters Degree (I’m cleverer than you), I’ve been to Russia (so I know everything about them) and I speak Russian (so I can translate sources you can’t), and my ancestors come from and fought in the area (which makes me an expert). Goodo, your self worth seems astronomical. Well hush my mouth, bow to your magnificence.
Nick J you got it. What’s more Masters is not my highest qualification.
Did you get it mail order Cantab? Pity they don’t sell humility and EQ as well.
I got my quals from the University of Canterbury and the University of Auckland actually. Your anti-intellectualism is revealing Nick J, which explains why all of your pronouncements on Ukraine are such rubbish. Ditto d’Esterre.
You entirely miss the point Cantab. I’d question your intellect, not your quals. I’ve got them from the same institution, but it didn’t seem at all relevant, still isn’t. All you have done is throw your qualifications in as a bludgeon to say “I’m better than you” without having the intellect to check and ask has he got the same?
As to anti intellectualism.. Ffs, you have no monopoly on ideas or information. Time to start thinking Cantab, as opposed to assuming.
It is pretty obvious Nick J, that you have no expertise in the area of Russia or Ukraine otherwise you would not say the things you do. My qualifications are precisely in that area. I support a free Russia – free from Putin’s jackboots.
Nick J your grip of Russian and Ukrainian history is so poor that it is obvious that you have no expertise in the area. I have a Masters in Russian. I would have to question your intellect when you spout Putin’s propaganda for him. I have not seen any critical thinking from you so you obviously did no postgraduate study.
Perhaps you should join Abelen fighting against Russian speakers in Ukraine if you lust for innocent Russian blood so much?
Perhaps you should join the Taliban Mohammed.
Awww, does your p**sy hurt, ammurrican?
This is like having a conversation with a 13 year old moron.
Agreed – so f**k off James+Brown, you 13 year old moron!
Cantab, you are revealing a disturbingly overblown opinion of your demonstrably underwhelming intellect. I’d be surprised given your child like reasoning if you actually have qualifications, if you have I would wonder at current academic standards.
I was on a University Challenge team Nick J – we got second. You have yet to state what your qualifications are – if any. My doctoral thesis sits in the UC library. As I said you have zilch expertise on Russia or Ukraine so stop insulting people that have!
I have no respect for people who say I’ve done this I’ve done that, I’ve got this qualification or another. It means zero to anybody except the ego of the person claiming. The argument at hand also has no respect to those claims when you are wrong.
A little bit though about me as you seem so set on proving you are better, Hons degrees, never used them. Academia was not my scene, commerce was. I did multi million dollar sales and got richly rewarded but one rule applied. Hero to zero. Once signed celebrate because tomorrow you start all over again and nobody gives a rats about your last major deal. The only person I had to prove myself to was me. Do you see why I don’t care about your qualifications?
So the socialist ideal of “volunteers” fighting for truth, justice, and democracy, lives on.
henry – aspiring ‘volunteers’ are free to quit the NZDF then do what they like…serving soldiers were specifically prohibited from fighting in spain (I assume you’re referring to the ‘international brigades’) most were unemployed workers and NOT SERVING SOLDIERS though many would have had military experience from WW1.
Very sad to see. Between the details people and the pro-Russians.
I consider Ukraine a rallying call for the rule of the people — Europe saw it as that, despite themselves.
I’m pretty sure Trotter will come on with my view soon but he’s already done that.
Any NZ soldiers fighting in Ukraine are doing it without authorisation, and if they make it back here alive they’ll probably be court martialled.
Please , Trotter, speak a truth? Because eight-four above don’t understand a thing. Ukraine is our Spain. Tho our WW lll is climate change.
A Left site which can’t do reason, let alone democracy.
sumsuch: “….Ukraine is our Spain.”
You know what happened in Spain, right? It was a fascist victory, and Franco ruled Spain as a dictator until his death in the 70s. The International Brigade fought there in defence of the Spanish Republic. They lost.
The only connection with the current conflict in the Ukraine is that the regime in Kiev is fascist: neo-nazi by its own admission. So: anybody going there from here to fight for that regime is giving aid to fascists. Not at all what the International Brigade was doing in Spain in the 1930s.
You’re ignorant or a bad actor.
Disgusted at the ignorance in this comment stream of the ‘Left’.
Not much hope for us if this is an example.
The old Left remembered above all.
Sumsuch: “You’re ignorant or a bad actor.”
Ok. So you don’t know about the Spanish civil war. And you don’t know about the contemporary situation in the Ukraine, either. The Zelensky regime is, by its own description, neo-Nazi. Zelensky has banned opposition parties, media, even the letter Z. In fact , because of the latter, he’s referred to online as Elensky. Heh!
The Ukrainian regime has passed into law the appalling language laws. Go read about it.
OK look at it this way, if he’d joined ISIS and got killed what would you say, and would ron marks refer to him as a ‘warrior’ then?
I’m only sad I wasn’t there. Without a belief in democracy, the form and the content, we are lost. The form leads on to the actual rule of the people. Like the defeat of Naziism lead to the golden period of ordinary people.
You lot above are an indictment of the dead-end of the Left here in NZ. All it requires is a Sanders. It’s the silly thing of material failure Does that matter to the truth of ideas? Mind you, I’m middle class.
To clarify, ‘material failure’ refers to the lack of funds for Left talkers. Lack of success has a lot to do with it as well. To repitish , my socialist great grandfather was seventy when Labour came to power.. All those people took their money out of their poor families.
sumsuch: “….my socialist great grandfather was seventy when Labour came to power.”
Goodness me….
you ARE young, aren’t you!
NZs fought in the Spanish Civil War in the 1930s didn’t they? Why? If a person goes to fight in a war there is either a strong principle at stake, or they like the BoysOwn aspect of it or the heightened feeling of importance and danger. What was this young man’s reasoning? Getting injured is not unlikely and then there is causing other people’s injuries. I would think that in any war both sides are at fault to some extent, so hearing one side and seeing video links does not tell the whole story and the relevant background.
Greywarbler: “NZs fought in the Spanish Civil War in the 1930s didn’t they? ”
They did. But in defence of the Spanish Republic, not of fascism. In fact, the fascists won that conflict, and Spain became a fascist dictatorship under Franco. He ruled till his death in the 1970s.
Nowadays, I’d greatly prefer NZ to be non-aligned. This country should stay out of the Ukraine conflict. It’s obvious that most people – including the government – have no idea what’s going on there, and has been going on there for a lot of years. The Ukrainian regime is fascist by its own admission, and it’s acted appallingly towards its own citizens. You couldn’t make up some of the things it has done.
Young people going to fight for the Ukraine are indisputably on the wrong side. As doubtless they find out when they get there.
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