Sitting This One Out: How Angry Abstainers Could Sink Labour and the Greens.

By
Chris Trotter
-
163
5201

VOTER ABSTENTION should now be Labour’s and the Greens’ biggest fear. That tens-of-thousands of New Zealanders, normally supportive of these two parties, may simply choose to stay home on the 14 October and abstain from participating in the General Election altogether. Asked why they are considering this drastic course of action: why they are opting-out; the most common reply is: “Because there’s no one I can bring myself to vote for.”

The reasons for these voters turning away from Labour and the Greens are many and varied. Some are registering their displeasure at the way the Centre-Left parties responded to the challenge of the Omicron variant of Covid-19. Locating themselves, politically, among the 30 percent of New Zealanders who thought the anti-vaccination mandate protesters encamped on Parliament’s front lawn had a measure of right on their side.

Others may be planning to abstain in response to what some are calling the “Maorification” of New Zealand. The He Puapua Report, Three Waters, the whole “co-governance” project, may present an insurmountable hurdle to casting a vote for Labour and/or the Greens.

Not that the abstainers are considering voting for National or Act – not these “tribal” leftists. No matter how alienated they may feel from their traditional electoral options, there is simply no way they could ever cast a vote for “the class enemy”. Better not to vote at all.

Bolstering these groups considerably will be those women – and men – outraged at the treatment meted out by members and supporters of the transgender community to the British women’s rights activist Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull (a.k.a “Posie Parker”). Well-connected insiders are already reporting resignations – including a number of hard-working party organisers outraged by the scenes that unfolded in Auckland’s Albert Park on Saturday, 25 March 2023.

Their outrage has since been compounded by the apparent inability of senior Labour and Green parliamentarians to acknowledge their complicity in the whipping-up of a climate of toxic rage against Keen-Minshull and all those who accepted her invitation to publicly speak up for women’s rights.

Left-wingers who came of age between the 1970s and 90s find it increasingly difficult to relate to the “progressives” of the twenty-first century. They see activists who fought for women’s and gay rights (in a period of New Zealand history when there was strong societal resistance to both) demonised as “TERFs” by activists willing to tear apart an entire political culture over the question of who is, and who is not, a woman.

A fey mood of reckless radicalism appears to have gripped Labour and the Greens. The extraordinary charge levelled against “white cis men” by the Greens’ co-leader, Marama Davidson, declaring them responsible for all the violence in the world, epitomises the Traditional Left’s dilemma. Confronted with the Orwellian obligation to confirm that 2+2=5, or face excommunication from the progressive community, more and more of the people whose votes have kept the Greens in Parliament (and Labour in Government!) are simply saying “Fuck it!” – and walking away.

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Undoubtedly, there will be some who will respond to this information with a tart “good riddance”. But those tempted to take this position should, perhaps, pause to consider the consequences of allowing so much electoral support to simply walk away.

Those perplexed and/or alienated by the actions of the Contemporary Left tend to be older voters. After all, if you can remember protesting the Vietnam War, the 1981 Springbok Tour and campaigning for the Homosexual Law Reform Bill, then you’re going to be well into your 50s – at least.

So what?

So, older supporters of the Left are among the most reliable of New Zealand voters. Their abstention will require Labour and the Greens to fill the gaps in the Left’s ranks with younger voters – the most difficult of all demographics to motivate electorally. While the ranks of the Right are replenished by middle-aged and elderly voters returning to the conservative fold after atypically backing “Jacinda” in 2020; the ranks of the Left will be thinned by the refusal of those who, election after election, have proved themselves to be the Left’s most loyal and reliable voters, to get off the couch.

There is even a worrying possibility that neither the Labour Party, nor the Greens, will see this electoral disaster coming. Left-wing abstainers are a politically astute group who, depending on how pissed-off they are with the parties they have traditionally supported, may flat-out lie to any pollster questioning. If they refuse to answer honestly, then the looming threat they pose to the Government’s survival may not become apparent until it is too late to avert it.

Respondents lying to pollsters is a real problem in the United States, where political polarisation is making people increasingly ill-disposed to co-operate with those they identify as the “enemy”. Such are the bitter fruits of political betrayals that never seem to end.

Sadly, New Zealanders are fast becoming familiar with their taste.

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163 COMMENTS

  1. There is no class Left in this “country” at the present time. Perhaps, when there is a new, substantive country, there will be.

    • “Who ever sits at the bottom serves the function of the left.” The problem that presents is that we are a house divided amongst ourselves. The left is pulling in multiple directions simultaneously.

      Now you said that there are no class left in New Zealand which is reasonable to say. Now the question is to what extent are subjective experiences real?

      There’s no sense that Labour or the Greens hold up the highest values that the left can bask in awe.

      Wages rose, so did inflation.

      Benefits rose to match the claw backs.

      NZDF, police and fire took budget cuts.

      What the hell are they teaching in university.

      Where’s all the engineers we need to take climate change?

      Where’s all the houses?

      • History will judge Ardern as a monumentally weak leader who lost control of her Govt and wasted a unique mandate on racist undemocratic policies she never put to the electorate.

        She killed it with kindness.

        • Without question – She was always a totally inadequate person for the role. She had zero substance for leadership.

        • Education is far too racist to be taught. Kids are encouraged to sit around and analyse their ‘identity’ and find it wanting, instead.

          If you can imagine a generation of Green Party kids flying around the world, mobs cancelling others for perceived micro aggressions, not engaging with the world’s environment as too busy writing self published books about their depression/ADHD/mental health due to the sea of racists and homophobes who need to be cancelled and more taxes needed to pay for all the vulnerable people like them, out there.

        • Gender woo and te reo.
          Our oldest, Olin Maori class at high school had all pakeha kids kept back in to lunch time while Maori kids went to lunch, supposedly to show them what white privilege was.
          Yes that’s right they were punished for being white.
          Some families left the school over it, our kid doesn’t want to do Maori anymore, he was getting merits and had done a project on getting people to pronounce the town name better.
          Apparently (on questioning child) all year the Maori kids sit at the front and get to go on their phones, white and non Maori kids to the back, no phones.
          What they taught those kids wasn’t what they thought they did.

          • My 9yo got home last week. The class is doing research and project into migration.
            She said ‘Maori only took what the needed, the British came and took everything’.

            Just yet another confirmation that our decision to move to another country is the right one.

            We leave in December.

        • Nothing of importance.
          Our Prime Minister, the Chipster,when he was Minister of Education dumbed the syllabus down,sacrificing the youth of our country.

    • There is a leftist group in society, but none of them are in parliament.
      Labour/Greens only “care” about:
      1. Trans.
      2. Gays/Lesbians.
      3. Beneficiaries.

      And that is the order of them, so if you are a gay who criticises a trans, then watch out.
      Left used to be about making thing better for the ordinary person, but now the ordinary person is the enemy that Labour now must continue to fool into voting for them so that they can continue their sick cultural marxist agenda.

        • You just don’t get it do you?
          And that’s ok, because your intelligence and critical thinking skills (or lack thereof) are absolutely on display here.
          They have been breeding generation after generation of beneficiaries, so have made the misery greater rather than less.
          The likes of the Kahuis are NEVER EVER going to produce decent functioning human beings, but rather just ensure that the next generation of beneficiaries is going to be bigger, hence making the misery worse than it currently is.
          Sponsoring people to have children only leads to this one inevitable outcome.
          It is one thing to pay people to not work, it is quite another to then pay them to breed the next generation of lazy useless people.
          Don’t response to this. You are wrong and I am right. There is no nuance, nor is there any room for sensible disagreement.
          This is evidenced EVERYWHERE around the Western world, where the number of single parent households has EXPLODED.
          Sir Apirana Ngata warned of EXACTLY this ruinous effect on Maori, but of course it has been ruinous on whites as well.

            • Pay MEN to have vasectomies !!!

              How easy is that ???

              What’s a fair price to get the snip…5k?

              …and perhaps an extra 5k to get chemically castrated to reduce the sexual urge.

              Any takers?

              • Why shield woman from the consequences of Thier bad choices. Woman get to choose who has sex, not men. Woman get money for leaving the father of there children. They get child support and welfare. Now you want to blame men for a woman’s choice? Wow.

              • Nice idea but sterilising men isn’t an effective social policy. It’s the women who are the constraint to supply.

              • @Black with a Vengeance
                $5,000 seems a fair compensation. Procedure to be available to all penis holders from the age of twelve upwards. No parental interference permitted.
                Deals with every problem from overpopulation to climate change.

            • Pay MEN to have vasectomies !!!

              How easy is that ???

              What’s a fair price to get the snip…5k?

              …and perhaps an extra 5k to get chemically castrated to reduce the sexual urge.

              Any takers?

              • Sounds like an economic deal compared to chasing an accrued $2.2 Billion of the known, unhidden missing child support to IRD.
                De- population is a climate change vote winner too.
                However, there’s still value in being a man in this world ( that others can’t fill the space), before the snip consider the sperm bank, it’ll be a tradable commodity to make a quid on and no CS to pay.

          • I feel I have to RESPOND jay because as expected you only have political blather no concrete examples because LINO has not lavished anything on bennys..and you know it hence the vitriol of your reply, nice deflection but I knocked in the rebound

          • The Greens aren’t just against white cist males. The Greens hate all males. There intended goal is to lower the overall testosterone levels of the entire population. It’s in there defence policies. It’s there health policy. Lowering testosterone is in all there policy it’s the only coherent stick. The Greens are a hate group at this point.

        • Benefit payment amoint increases tied to inflation, while the working person does not get that.

          There’s more examples too. Many more.
          Get a Winz worker to whistle blow..

      • I would think the union leaders of old, would turn in their graves to see the lack of interest in local workers and the appointment of scab labour who now don’t even need to work as the unions are more interested in benefits for them without working.

        Similar to woman’s rights groups, who now have lost everything to the self IDing man.

    • we’re a prosperous country. our social services are good. our social strata is relatively flat. capital is the only class in our society. we don’t retain enough of it because… financial-ization. too many foreign interests clipping the ticket on imported resources. if we could be more self-sufficient and still productive, we’d be sweet. that’s the only real class left to take – lets work it out.

  2. I believe the appalling scenes at Albert Park followed by the extraordinarily inflammatory comments made by Davidson will sink the Greens and Labour.
    I am of the demographic you speak of.
    A working class lefty who has moved between Labour and the Greens for 40 years.
    I have been swallowing dead rats for years watching particularly Labour desert its traditional mandate in favour neo liberalism and lately woke ideology.
    I simply can no longer vote for parties i no longer recognize in order to keep National and ACT out.
    Barring a vote for Top I cant identify with any of them.
    Im out.

    • Thank you Jack for being supportive of women. It means a lot, especially when the politicians and the police aren’t. Kia kaha.

      • What bollocks. Seeing through Posie Parker who is now, surprise surprise, starting her own political party does not mean you don’t support women.

        • What is it what you see?
          Is what you see what the minister of immigration saw?
          Is what you see what we all saw play out in Albert Park?

        • There is nothing to see through.
          Parker has cleverly triggered the radical trans mob to blow themselves up.
          The scenes from Albert Park have although been ignored and suppressed in NZ have created outrage worldwide.
          The government, media except Plunket and all of the enabling agencies like the PSA are looking very foolish right now.
          Most people who have bothered to go in search of the plethora of incriminating footage are horrified.
          Boycotting which used to be the norm before cancellation is back.

        • I don’t believe you see anything.
          You see; no one got to see or hear PP because a rabid mob decided to cancel or sensor her.

          All we really got was MSM bull, claiming she was a Nazis because some Neo Nazis who also don’t like the LBGT community showed up at one of her rally’s.

          Marama quite rightly has been painted the bad guy in all this, but I personally think the media have a lot to answer for too. Disgraceful journalism, no wonder they’re going broke.

    • “Barring a vote for Top I cant identify with any of them.
      I’m out. ”

      Exactly my sentiments.

      This country is being destroyed week by week. Its very sad to watch.

      If you care like me and if your job like mine is to support our most vulnerable communities and see the damage inflicted by these sycophants in Wellington and beyond its hard not to be cynical.

        • Absolutely true which is why I think Winston is the lesser of the evils.

          There is much you could say about Winston on the negative side of the ledger but I do trust his hand brake abilities. He is an wily old fox and pragmatic.

          But to me at this stage, I will vote for anyone who is not Lab/ Green or National. Anyone who has not stood up for NZ women. But I have to say ACTs performance in this (while the best of the major parties is still underwhelming). Brooke has been doing the rounds and I am hearing good stuff about free speech but very little about women’s rights so I remain unconvinced they stand for women’s rights.

    • Unfortunately (as someone who has voted TOP at the least 2 elections) they are no longer an option for me seeing as they supported the Hate Speech legislation.

    • No Jack, you’re not out! While you’re alive and kicking you’re IN – whether you like it or not. I don’t like it either, but we just have to keep on truckin’ until we find someone who says it somewhat for us – otherwise the bad guys win. Vote – please.

  3. An interesting perspective

    In this instance perhaps voting abstention should be viewed on equal terms as dereliction of ( Civic ) duty
    because it will leave NZ worse off

    ” Use it or lose it” … your vote that is….. an a political leadership vacuum will prevail

    There is another voting option >> neither / nor which means anybody else BUT Labour, National, the Greens, ACT or NZ First

    • I’m not convinced that not voting is a “dereliction of ( Civic ) duty”. If you’re ambivalent or feel you’re uninformed then perhaps the responsible thing, in a sense an act of faith in your fellow citizens, is to not vote. Certainly more responsible than a “pin the tail on the donkey” type of vote.

        • My sentiments exactly RobbieWgtn. Pull up your bottom lip you party poopers and think and research and listen and then vote for the best of a bad lot. I’m an old Michael Joseph Savage Labourite – before my time, but recommended by my Grandma. My husband and I cancelled each other as he was a Nat, we came together with Values – then Green – then I went with the Alliance when Labour turned to Roger Douglas. And now I’m voting ACT because David Seymour is the best and bravest. Think people – then VOTE!

    • Do the critters have a right to ‘abstain’ from voting in parliament? Yes? that it is a valid choice.
      and really if the left is scared now about the females no longer showing up to do the work for them, phone banking, canvassing, sign waving and shit – all of that of course free of charge, then they should have thought about that earlier.
      Actions have consequences and there is currently not a single reason to vote for L or G.
      For those that want to vote but don’t know whom, Social Credit and Legalize Aotearoa are good ‘protest’ votes, as both parties represent issues that were both failed spectacularly by Labour and Greens.

      • Sadly RB the Soc. Cred. Party deregistered following the passing of leader Chris Leitch. Whilst AFAIK it’s still going as an entity, it cannot put forward any candidates in the upcoming election.
        A real shame, but hopefully they regain momentum given the ongoing & increasing failures of current monetarist economic theory.

  5. Another “moaning Minnie” speculation. I know some Labour people hosed off with not getting to talk at the Parker event, a couple were trotskyites in a former life. But surely they do not indicate a wide trend at this brief remove.

    Really, politically aware older types are likely ingrained “lesser evil” voters regardless of the sins of Labour or Greens. Vote Green or TPM, and strategically Labour electorate is my tip.

    Boomer numbers are declining, as elder poverty rises, a number will have noted however the recent rise in NZ Super payments and may reward Labour with their vote-Natzos want to raise super age.

    • That is it TM, the people resigning from Labour, the people no longer volunteering for labour, no longer giving money to Labour, no longer phone banking or canvassing or even just standing at the road waving signs they are all not true Labour and may actually be something else all together and Labour will not at all miss them.

      And that is why they are still sending requests for money even though i resigned some time ago for the very reasons that brought fore the women – human female bashing mob on saturday.

    • Actually, that’s probably a reasonable option.
      I don’t align with much of their policies but at least they demonstrate some level of ethics and have some chance of getting into parliament.

    • TOPs policy is to steal from people who worked all their lives to provide a home for their families and handout as a UBI to people who can’t be bothered getting out of bed.

      • I’m sorry but your sentiment amount people ‘too lazy to get out of bed’ is a lazy generalisation and a distraction from the point. The UBI would replace all forms of social welfare and so there is no longer ‘stigma’ attached to people on benefits as we are all in the same boat. In coming decades there will be a loss of jobs (through tech, e.g. driverless trucks). Therefore, a UBI is a good way of providing some form of safety net for everybody (its universal). Its not enough to live on, and so there is an incentive to still work. You would be getting it to. Other countries often pinned up as achieving great social outcomes e.g. Scandinavian are trialing this already. Do we want to really be progressive and move with the world, or do we want to keep our heads in the sand?

        • NO, NO IT WOULDN’T!
          There is no possible way the UBI could replace all forms of benefits without mass starvation.
          Benefits need to be rolled back progressively over time (and I mean YEARS) to enable such a scheme to be possible.

      • RobbieWgtn. Marama Davidson who’s never bought her own home, is the pollie who seems to think that home owners are millionaires and wants them taxed when their properties reach a certain value – thanks to inept govt policy.

      • Dunno bout that, but it’d be nice to have some fresh faces and ideas in parliament for a change.

        UBI isn’t such a dumb idea.

      • Any different to the Greens or Labour then?

        We (and I actually can’t believe I’m saying this) need a worker’s party, that is actually made up from those who have worked, and not student politicians.

        I wonder what we could call it….hmmmm?

        • Some similarities. The other key TOP policy nobody else has is lowering all income tax by a 3rd and then instituting a wealth tax on all property (owner occupied and investment) based off a market return. This takes the tax burden away workers (who currently have the majority of tax burden). Total tax take doesn’t change, just the manner in where you get the tax from changes. Probably won’t appeal to many, as all our self interest will be shown up for what it is, as soon as the family home is taxed (while we all virtue signal with a variety anti capitalism statements). That policy would also mean people would invest less property and more in business or other forms of investment. Probably to radical for Labour, and probably too smart for the Greens who spend all their time fighting culture wars or coming up with fly by the seat of your pants policy to grab votes.

          • The family home is already taxed- indirectly, if you want to argue, but district council rates are compulsory and like insurance companies are able to hike their rates at will. District councils and their operations don’t really have to answer to anyone as actual councillors are only a small part of the equation. Their C.E.O’s are big, big earners (more than an MP) and their subbies and maintenance crews operate fiscally unseen. Maintenance on older houses is also not factored in although it is pretty expensive and not everyone wants to fix their own wiring.

  7. Abstaining from voting is the least painful choice for people who had high hopes for a Labour Government that held a parliamentary majority.

    Alongside the Ardern slothfulness, the incompetence (and emerging stench) from the Ministerial Wing is heartbreaking for those voters.

  9. I’ve voted for both the major parties over the years and have only abstained once when Key was in power because I couldn’t pinch my nose hard enough to block out the stench from either side.
    The same is true this year, except that the stench of Labour/National/Greens is enough to make voting ACT tolerable (possibly), although abstention still on the table.
    Christ, NZ First almost becomes tolerable (almost).
    If you can pinch your nose hard enough to vote either Labour or Greens, then you lack the most basic of critical thinking skills and ethics.

  10. That’s the way I’m thinking too. We all know this is the reason the Greens especially want to give naive 16 year olds the vote, I expect we’ll be hearing more about that in the next few months.

  11. I almost always voted Labour since Kirk (only 2 exceptions decades ago), including twice for Jacinda (fool me once etc).

    Then a couple of years ago I saw the MSM go feral, read He Puapua & the PIJF ToW propaganda conditions. I will be voting 2 ticks ACT this year, never again in my life for Labour.

    • I’m similar to you RW.

      Voted Greens (gangrenes) the last two elections (would normally have voted Labour) but as much as I hate to say it, I’ll be voting ACT this time. Something I never thought I’d do.

    • Yeah my 40 years with Labour is dunzo from henceforth.

      You dont get to use the police as an arm of the State and get away with it! Saying ‘we have changed’ will never get me to trust you again.

    • the PIJF ToW propaganda conditions…
      It’s still unbelievable to me, I can’t quite believe it’s as bad as it actually is.
      Trust is gone.
      Belief that NZ is the best, is I’m afraid, gone.

  12. Right or left wing outrage is short lived.
    Women and children issues awareness could well create a political party that will be represented by feminists in parliament. Feminists in parliament who are brave enough to speak their truth may well create better outcomes for NZ society. Atwood, Greer and their likes are inspiring feminists.
    Such a shift in representative politics has the potential to generate better debate in parliament and for alliances that may well benefit society. Has the time arrived when feminists make the leap towards grabbing political power instead of political activism? This is the only way in which conservative men will gain a voice in parliament.

    Bias dominates political decision making. Traditional lefties will stay left.. conservative women will probably move back to the right.

    Foul language management by the speaker of the house will become a challenge if we see a feminist political party in parliament.

    • the ‘feminists’ in parliament should stay as far away from any ‘woman’ party as they could. They had a chance and they all applauded assault and voted to give males the right to self id into single sex spaces. The feminists in parliament are very much at the core of the problem. Mind i would call them Aunt Lydia, and let them wear brown.
      There is no left left specially not for women – female humans.

      • I think one needs to allow women to define what feminism actually means. Captured feminism does not advocate what is dear to women and their offspring.

        Men cannot birth babies.

    • We have reached the stage where demonstrations and protest marches are normal and not for extreme events only.New Zealand has lost it’s way.Civil unrest is encouraged by Labour and the Greens.The Police have obviously been told to step back.
      Our values devalued,our society deeply divided,all this in 6 years.
      Can we put it back together?Yes but only by a change in Government.

  13. Chris is ignoring the bigger picture “Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.” While Martyn (& many others) denies the existence of higher powers everything is happening as prophecy tells us along a path where false worship is forced on all by a church-state combination due to the fear people have over problems in the world.

  14. And some of us will protest vote. I’m a former hard-core Labour voter, union delegate etc. I don’t identify with this arrogant bunch at all and disgusted my the weekend’s events. Labour, give us a call when you drop the hateful SJW BS & go back to being about a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work. Brooke van Velden has impressed me most. Voting ACT this year.

    • Honestly, I’m voting ACT but I am much more of a floater voter.
      I’m not sure how you can bring yourself to vote ACT, but I at least applaud your integrity to NOT vote Labour/Greens.

    • Brooke Van Velden would be one reason I wouldn’t vote for ACT. Her comments about teaching NZ history sounded so US Republican Bible Belt like that it’s an instant turn off.

  15. “more and more of the people whose votes have kept the Greens in Parliament (and Labour in Government!) are simply saying “Fuck it!” – and walking away.”

    That hits the nail on the head for me. Chippy gave it a good shot but when it comes to the crunch he is unwilling to draw a clear line between the economic left and excesses of the cultural left.

    I’ve always been aware that voters tend to drift to the right as they get older. I used to assume it was among the middle class for financial reasons. As people got older earned more money, bought houses etc they wanted to build capital and pay less tax. Perhaps this is true for many but in my circle it’s overwhelmingly a reluctant recognition of how self-righteous, authoritarian and untethered from reality the centre of gravity within the left has become.

    I know several lifelong Labour/Green voters supporting ACT as the ‘lesser evil’ this time round. Pick your preferred flavour of woke or non-woke corporatism.

    • Same Tui.
      Somewhere someone said this week, maybe here, that hits the nail on the head about this left drifting right thing with age.

      “We didnt leave the Labour party, the Labour Party left us.”

      And that is it in a nutshell. We stayed largely the same and they threw our values back in our face, called us bigots and dinosaurs and danced off into their brave new world (And effed the country along the way).

        • That’s “progressivism”, keep pushing and changing even when the change is madness because otherwise you aren’t being progressive, the institutions preaching it are all echo chambers with no grounding in reality.
          If you attempt to insert reality you are a racist or TERF or transphobe or whatever word gets your identity group cancelled.
          Post modernism is a mental health issue.

    • Another ex-Labour voter here, though I confess I voted Green in 2008, and opted for TOP in desperation last time – a mistake I won’t make again. As Anker has pointed out, TOP are woke.

      “self-righteous, untethered from reality” – that so nails the contemporary left. I’m no fan of ACT’s economic policy but they look like the only party committed to attacking the woke cancer in our institutions.

      • Unfortunately we have come to a point where voting for the only actively anti woke party in ACT has become necessary despite many of their other policies being unpalatable.
        Destroying the village to save it.

  16. Are we going to see by-elections for Mt. Albert and Nashys ‘constituents’? OR are we gonna have a really early election?

    As for abstaining, hell no, absolutely not. I mean, look at the whole lot PM down, violence against women is state sanctioned, media approved, and applauded by the trained seals everywhere. you have fish, and you have a fish, and you too. clap harder comrade, vote for the ones that would beat your birthing body into submission. Kindness. Be kind. And clap real hard so that no one ever thinks that you may not approve of this shit.

    Women – human females are going to be casting their vote this year. And labour and the Greens chances are are going to get few of these votes.

    • Why?
      Winnie is an agent of chaos.
      Its how we got the people’s priNZcess to start with.
      The only person Winnie takes care of in parliament is Winnie.

    • Yes. Elder statesmen, experienced Parliamentarian, who cuts through the crap faster than a hot knife through butter.

  19. And if you wanted to depress the vote, the actions of the last week and the last few years surely helped. How many people have Labour actually alienated now to the point of no return? And will Labour ever take responsibility for their scorched earth and everyone who does not submit will be left behind actions? No. To arrogant for their own good.

  20. FFS – so you’re all happy for the Conservatives to go through unchallenged and will bite off your nose to spite your face – what a bunch of morons.

    You’d rather plunge us into the bland morass of middle class culture wars, while the capital classes are ripping us off blind. Shame.

  21. Chris – Another headache for the Government will be Labour/Green voters protest vote by voting other parties, ie…NZ First.

  22. We know the centre vote wins elections. Those passionate on the left or right are always disappointed. The fact of it is, any government has to strike a compromise between a preferred agenda and an electable agenda. This government chose to be a centrist government to get elected, but had the mother of all agendas it didn’t tell the public about. If it had proved to be a competent government it may have worked, but it didn’t and they aren’t. If the centrist agendas from labour and National are similar,( not including 3 waters etc) it comes down to competency and leadership. You either think Chippy can do it with an incompetent cabinet, or you believe National will be more organised with an untried leader that hasn’t had a chance yet. Luxon gets labelled as untrustworthy, untried and unlikeable. But nobody knows whether he would be a good leader or not. I’d give him a chance but many here would not vote for National regardless. Pity really.

  23. Yep, I’m that demographic. 55 year old lesbian veteran of Homosexual Law Reform, Labour activist, Mana Party activist, occasional Green voter. My wife and I are suddenly politically homeless and completely silenced. My wife wants to vote National (prefacing that with omg never thought I’d say this…), seeing them as the only party who will stand up to the bullies who are trashing lesbians and evicting us from the ‘rainbow’ community. I’m thinking of voting TOP, but we’ll have to see what their position is in the wash-up. Otherwise I’m possibly a stay-home on the day. The Greens are sunk, which is a shame but I won’t miss this iteration of collective sanity loss.

    • As someone who has voted TOP twice, they lost me for good when they supported the Hate Speech Legislation. I also know some people in that party who are hard TRAs.

      • Ah. I’m a total newbie to them so thanks for that background. Yeah, I want to run a mile from that stuff right now.

  24. Labour and the Greens have done next to nothing for the bottom half of NZ. Gave us an expensive medicinal cannabis market only 4% of us can afford to access, review into poverty with 24 recommendations and still nothing happening to fix it, a new ministry for the disabled where they sit around and talk and make suggestions while nothing happening on the front line to ACTUALLY help anyone, interest deductibility removed off rentals just put a tax on tenants. Labour and the Greens have literally walked over their voter base. If anybody stops voting its because of the above, not some trans BS

  25. The choice is simple this next election…Do you want to be ruled by the woke and maori…or …neoliberal values….easy peasy…..I’m picking a one off vote for ACT , NZ First, by many people just to give a wake call to Labour and National…..

  26. I’m one such voter who has voted Labour all my life even after the bastardisation of the 84 Rogernomics – but this time I am considering not voting at all. I know this will allow one vote for the Nat/Act party but what can we do.
    Labour is not left they are Liberals and Greens whilst well intentioned are, as seen on the weekend, lack the leadership needed. Davidson is a disgrace and to level the charge against white males shows her lack of smarts and all the bullshit excuses is making matters worse. James Shaw anyone? No thanks.

  27. Neoliberalism was always going to end with the rest of us fighting over the crumbs. And here we are, tearing each other to shreds and for what…

  28. I will be abstaining.

    I was a left-wing activist. I care about people. Not just the well-off – all people. I do not stand for mere appearances as these parties do.

    Labour has been outrageous. It has been prepared to break democracy and everything we fought for including free-speech and the right to protest. Not for left-wing progress but against it.

    My people, (and this includes working class Maaori) are in greater hardship. More of our people are being destroyed. By destroyed I do not mean the middle-class definition flung about when Ardern resigned. Not hurt pride, I mean the previous meaning of the word. Actually destroyed.

    I can’t imagine voting for the current so-called left-wing parties ever again. This time they went too far. If they ever came out of their fantasy bubble and mixed with everyday people they would know how furious a large swathe of struggling everyday people are. But They never do and they don’t care – we don’t exist to them.

    More and more, their policies mean many of us don’t exist on earth. There is no televised count of the destruction of our people. No hyped team of five million fighting to save us. We just suffer and die.

  31. I am an old leftie, environmentalist and protester and I despair. Has this supposedly left-leaning blog been highjacked by right-wing bots? Many of you appear to prefer the ravages of another brutal wave of neo-liberal policies by voting Nat/ACT than voting for the insipid incrementalism/centralism of Labour. Be careful what you wish for!
    The trans debate, and the behaviors of a few at the Posie Parker protest, are our latest ‘moral outrage’. Predictably, a few foolish hot-heads made the headlines. The protest was not chaotic – they were huge and joyful. Protests are by their nature annoying and disruptive. Remember that team? This conversation, like gay rights, racism, civil unions, learning Te Reo, etc, are not Chicken Little moments. The trans conversation is just another step in our social and political continuum

    • Problem:
      1. Labour/Green are currently hostile to women’s rights, in particular the right to female-only spaces, events and services. Women are 51% of the population.
      2. Labour/Green MPs helped stoke hatred of women’s rights campaigners to the point that a violent mob attacked them.
      3. Labour/Green MPs made it illegal for therapists to attempt to treat sex dysphoria, instead legally requiring them to encourage children who’ve asserted sex dysphoria down a pathway towards lifelong medication, surgical mutilation, sexual dysfunction and/or sterilisation.
      These are not trivial issues!

    • f.o. watching in absolute horror the live streams of the Mt Albert fandango and couldn’t see straight for a week. your definition of large and joyful kind of contradicts the paradigm. kids are given transit or exit choices and you say joyful? f.o. again. all academia talking out of their backsides to avoid re-trenchment and no one can get across the Cook Straight (oh wait, our government chatGP will decide to call it the kai kai waka waka)

    • The Green Party are no longer an environmental party they have been hijacked by Marama, Chloe and Golriz,it’s their plaything.

  33. There is a real possibility of a Nat- ACT combo just drifting over the line with Winston sitting on the cross benches creating mischief which is where he likes to be and enjoying his tax payer funded perks.

    Once again there feels like an undercurrent running through the silent majority that Chris has suggested may not be seen in the political polls.

    I agree with Bomber’s prediction that this general election result will lead to a very splintered parliament after what could be a very fraught election campaign not seen since the upheavals of the mother of all budgets in 1991-3 or further back with the violence of the springbok tour and the divisionism of the 1981 campaign.

    It will be an interesting result that only MMP can produce.

    ” A fey mood of reckless radicalism appears to have gripped Labour and the Greens. ”

    Its not just about losing the election but the next number of years they will be in opposition.

  34. Not voting is a win for David Seymour and the hell in this world that he will bring,SACKING is his go to word,and stomping on you is his agender

  35. Thankyou Grant Robertson for making it easier for me to electorate vote Labour.
    The Party vote is going to be a real bitch of a thing to figure out. At most, there’s about 6 months to figure it out. The trick will be how the Chipster handles getting all the various demographics his party has managed to alienate back into the fold. Seems to me people are not prepared to settle for the least worst option.
    And if I were JA, I’d pick up my husband and daughter and head for a Pacific atoll somewhere for a couple of years where the chances of putting a bit of gas back in the tank are a lot better.

  38. Unfortunately we have come to a point where voting for the only actively anti woke party in ACT has become necessary despite many of their other policies being unpalatable.
    Destroying the village to save it.

  39. I’m facing that possiblity. Can’t vote Green or Labour due to their hostility to women’s rights and the threat they pose to children. Won’t vote National or ACT because I’m a leftist. Won’t vote for parties that are unlikely to make the threshold. That leaves Te Pāti Māori, but it looks like they’ve drunk the Queer Theory kool-aid too. Abstention may be the outcome.

    • Psycho Milt. We have to think of the children. Currently Hannah Tamaki is the only public person who seems to be doing so. What the lying politicians and media did to Kellie -Jay Keen is horrific, and we cannot let them do it to us or to our precious tamariki. Even if we can just dump Labour and the Greens, it’s some sort of first step.

      • I take your point. It’s doing my head in that the right-wing parties are currently the *least* hostile to women’s rights and the only ones with an interest in child safeguarding.

        • The problems the state can cause for parents who refuse said ‘gender affirming healthcare’ are considerable.

          • Reactionary B. Yes, but it’s much worse for the children. Apart from unnecessarily confusing and stressing kids, the mental health stats soar post- transition for those who believe or who were led to believe that they were in the wrong body. So do physical health complications . The MSM know this, and are refusing to report on it, and the politicians here don’t know what they’re doing. Reports from de-transitioners are very sobering stuff.

      • Voting for any of them, come that. I’m pretty comfortable with indigenous people of colonised countries organising in their own interest though, and don’t see any inherent ethical conflict in supporting them.

    • Ask yourself this question.
      Am I leftist and what does that mean?
      Maybe, what you see as leftist values have migrated to a more conservative approach.
      Protecting human rights is conservative. Protecting liberty is conservative. Protecting group rights is conservative. Protecting trans rights at the cost of women’s rights is progressive.

      Leaning towards Marxism used to define left leaning.

  40. A few years back, Wayne Hope, an occasional TDB commentator, wrote about the increasing irrelevance of the tradition left /right label. Perhaps that’s a bit too harsh on those who still use the distinction but I think many would agree it raises a point on how political parties position themselves toady and how voters respond (or is it the other way around, the world become more complex, politics becomes more complex, and political; parties morf to attract voters and grab / stay in power). In typical fashion perhaps a bit of both. I’m not sure if its in TDB archive but if it is its worth a read. Perhaps Mr Hope will consider re-writing it taking to account the intervening years.

    Back in the day it was a whole lot easier easier. Parties either espoused socialism (and in some instances communist principles) or they were blatantly and unashamedly capitalist. A bit of a generalization but for arguments sake let’s say that. The views of individual voters could be placed along this continuum, traditionally determined by a class distinction, the blue collar working class and the so-called capitalist class. And farmers like my own father voted right, subsidies, tax credits, good for business, right. Many in the professional class I suspect voted right because the right ‘protected’ their interests, although this is undoubtedly an oversimplification. I am sure there were many a left learning surgeon, engineer or lawyer (but perhaps not accountant). Teachers and nurses were left learning, but then I may well be wrong. Journalists? Surely not so straightforward but a hell of a lot simpler back in the day.

    Voters have always voted on social issues, social conservatives on one side and social progressivists on the other. Traditionally social conservatives voted right, yes, and progressivists voted left. Some exercised a conscience vote. But increasingly those social issues are in voters faces 24/7. Many are interconnected with the economic but many are not. And as TDB unceasingly points out, identity now rules. And that it is argued is simply a diversion.

    So where’s this all going? A left /right distinction? Or increasingly looking like a quadrant type configuration with an additional social axis creating four spaces? If so that raises the questions:
    – Where do the parties position themselves in this configuration?
    – Where do voters see themselves on the multiple issues? Which really matter?
    – Who to vote for (2 votes now of course and a new dynamic)?

    A bit more noggin work, not blind allegiance, is the order of the day. And hopefully simply not the fuck you vote by supporting the opposition. For me its a challenge. Never voted right but when younger never voted at all as I thought all politicians had their noses in the trough. That indeed may be close to the truth and maybe I’ll revert back to my youthful distain. But where I’m at now a travesty for democracy I feel.

    Mr Hope, how about rewriting that piece.

  41. An article of absolute twaddle.

    I thought I was reading Stuff or the herald for a minute there, they tend to flavour opinion stated as fact.

    You think the left won’t vote? Bull$&@T

    The only good thing about this opinion piece is the bigotry it has exposed in the comments.

  42. DiscoStu I agree the left will vote.
    The vote for the Greens is where my interest lies.
    To me they are no longer a party concerned with the environment.
    They represent the interests of Chloe ( boomer fame),Golriz and Marama(cis male fame).

  43. Very interesting discussion. I’m supporting Democracy NZ at this stage, getting back to grassroots politics and freedom of speech.

  44. Dismay, I’m sure I commented here. In this free speech safe space — ha, ha. Abstainers, my eye. It’s in the scared hearts of the Old Left talkers. 40 years of defeat can do that to you. Chris’s ‘art of the possible’ is not all negative, now we need the chancers, not this. I liked Marama’s truth.

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