We like to poke the Woke over their slavish devotion to dogma, but let’s remind ourselves how dogmatic the rabid right in NZ are when it comes to young brown offenders.
Mark Mitchell’s suggestion to revoke the Police chase policy is probably the single worst thing we could do behind arming Police with heat seeking missiles. Kids pumped up on adrenalin being chased by poorly trained cops isn’t good social policy for Christ’s sakes!
The cry for harsher and tougher sentences under some delusional belief that all these kids need is the bash to sort them out is just so fucking crazy!
Most of these kids are already known to social services, we don’t need an over the top chase policy to catch teens we already know the identity of!
Better design with concrete blocks at shopping entrances and better social services are the solution here, not crazy tough on crime nonsense.
These ram raids are a symptom of a deeper societal malaise derived from the intense economic stress and psychological post trauma of the pandemic.
Firing up and demanding harsher responses and policing is the worst option.
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For National, and their counterparts in the USA, Austraila and the UK, crime can only be stopped by floggings and summary executions. That is more or less their end goal.
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
Meanwhile in NZ, since taking office Labour have proudly reduced the prison population by 30% & violent crime has increased by 37%.
National closed down a shitloas of prisons, and brought in double bunking, leading to prisoner assaults and rapes, like that guy who was in prison for robbing a warehouse, he was going to be released on time served after pleading guilty, ended up getting his head bashed in by his cellmate and died not long after. That is the penal system that National want, lock them all in a cage and let them kill each other, just like the USA. US cops, US prisons and US healthcare. Profit and death.
spot on millsy
Sad but true. The Key government’s prison policies were appalling. Private prisons are a truly unhinged idea.
What chance as the school term starts, that the folk at Christ’s College, King’s College, St Margaret’s and St Cuthberts are to focus their efforts on encouraging their charges to aspire to be prison staff, floggers, executioners, police, fruit pickers, nurses, truckies and chippies?
Their communities of parents keep telling us it’s what we need.
Or do they expect others to take up such tasks? Sort of for altruistic reasons to help the whole community, you know with a sort of social perspective.
That’s silly I’m inclined to the right and have no wish for floggings and summary executions.
Indeed I agree with Martyn.
Right on Bob I am with you on this I wonder how many National voters Millsy really knows .
It’s not that these criminals are young or brown, it’s the damage they’re causing here and now, yesterday and today.
It is so easy to park the problem in a dead end street if you don’t want to confront it and say until we fix unknown variables or as one pointless Rotorua councillor said last week, end poverty, we should just let them do their thing, maybe until they get bored or whatever. If we are to be honest, changing the way society operates and cease imitating the US may help but human nature is what is, some people are arseholes and always will be.
Its what we do now that matters and the biggest prevention for crime for those who choose to go down that road is getting caught and serious consequences that go with it. That ain’t happening.
“getting caught and the serious consequences that go with it”. If you have nothing, struggling to keep a roof over your head (if you have one). and no prospects for the future does being locked up with access to food sound like a serious consequence? That’s not to imply that prison is any sort of picnic but the comparative choice is not so extreme. Therefore while you go about catching these people you need to be fixing the drivers behind “I don’t give a shit”
“some people are arsehole and always will be”. I could not agree more, but don’t think that being tougher (are we actually being less tough than we were 10 years ago, there’s a lot of talk but what laws have actually changed) changes that. Does death row stop people killing other people…….not so much.
XRAY is right to a point. Yes yabbering on about nirvana in social policy is totally impractical and no way of ever stopping the crime. We need to act now pragmatically top prevent whatever we wish to control. But also be doing social and values development work that is pragmatic about the difficulties these young people face which lead them towards dishonesty. This will require honesty from authorities and resolution to make positive change. So the same mindset is required from the young at fault and the Labour PTB at fault as it is they who have brought about the situation that has shaped these youngsters. They have the means to stop it as they have stopped Covid; not dead in its tracks but applying measures that have decreased it over time and enabled control with extra funding and effort and correct procedures tailored for the task.
I don’t think that Labour has the guts and ability to cope with the sustained hard work to turn around the human crisis that their own choices of political method have resulted in. National are hopeless – they don’t care about all people’s welfare, their response is irritation or anger and they’d like to bring back the Birch in an Australian convict mindset.
We have had 25 years where almost puritanical dogma has persisted in our legal, judicial and corrections spheres that criminals were products of their environment, it wasn’t their fault and a kiss, cuddle, sme wood carving and a haka would sort these misunderstood, unfortunate souls out.
It hasn’t. Basic behaviorism explains that a positive outcome to a negative behavior will reinforce that behavior. This is what is happening.
The common definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. This is the left’s response to this government-instigated crime wave.
Driving a car(s) into a mall, then into Noel Leemings is a little more aggressive than a youth shoplifting from their local supermarket.
I spoke to a friend yesterday; lovely guy, was a police contractor, pretty woke. He pointed out that these ramraids are “nothing new, they’ve been happening for agers, it’s just that the media are now reporting on it.”
as no one has the actual stats on ethnicity of these offenders they could be disadvantaged and disenfranchised purple venusians….bloody venusians
Yes, no reporting I have seen describes them as Young Brown Offenders. Is Martyn jumping to conclusions so that he can proclaim there is a Rabid NZ Right just so he can get a smear in on anybody who may not vote left..
The bottom line is that actions should have consequences. “Broken windows” policing does work by intervening early for “minor” crime before it develops into more serious crime such as the organised ram raid criminal behaviour we are seeing now. It helps if the parents actively discourage criminal behaviour and keep their children indoors at night. They are the first line of defence in terms of setting boundaries and shaping behaviour so that law enforcement doesn’t have to get involved “in loco parentis” as Al Pacino would say.
All broken windows leads to is an authoritarian police state where police beat down people for minor offences. It’s basically suspension of civil liberties and due process.
highest incarceration rate in the world is not a good advert for any US derived policy….I know I keep on banging on about that point….but why ‘import’ a failed policy?
To say poverty is the reason to steal a working man’s car, destroy it by ram raiding a vape shop or Louis Vuitton shop doesn’t hold water and insults all the people struggling who don’t break the law.
And who will ever know what the death penalty does. NZ in 1959 had zero murders! Whose to say didn’t,
Interesting point. Think the death penalty disappeared here in 1957. Stan Graham shot seven dead in the 1940’s
Fair enough that poverty does not excuse this behaviour but I think you might lose a sense of right and wrong. People with plenty can be vile pricks too
once again it may well be the reason but it’s no excuse.
what the death penalty does is murder ‘x’ number of innocents every year….ask 6 random irishmen in the UK..they would have deffo got the chop….
And with our judiciaries ramshakle and race/class based ‘verdicts’ would you trust them with a life YOUR LIFE maybe, not to mention NZs cops propensity for fitting people up
NO, life should mean life ie-till the day you die…much crueller for the flog ’em brigade but people can also be released at a future date if innocent, compo is no recompense but at least they’re alive..but life does have to mean for the term of your natural life….
With all this handwringing about young gangs of ram raiders, shop robbers and standover thugs there is very little thought given to the hard working families having their livelihoods destroyed in the mayhem.Its bloody hard running a small business in this country and to have to.incur the costs of these mindless thugs must be both soul destroying and financially crippling. I’m sure there is never any consideration given to make these people financially responsible for their destruction and it would appear there are no consequences for most of them save for a chat with the victims if all parties can be bothered. I guess we can all look forward to as much happening on this issue as we have experienced getting on top of the gang problems over the years. A great fat nothing. As Fred Dagg was fond of singing, ” We Just Don’t Know How Lucky We Are”.And then he moved to Australia.
I don’t blame these kids. If the government gives “others” $400k tax free capital gain for no reason, these kids will get sweet FA unless they take it themselves. Modern day Robin Hoodery.
but of course such crimes don’t happen in the demi-paradise of oz do they ex?
Not so much now all the 501’s have gone back home.
ex kiwi You seem to have info on the 501s How many if any have gone home and why and how? I thought they are not wanted in Oz. Please explain what’s going on as I find the apparent situation worrying. The ones who have gone – are they coming back? Please advise with your closer knowledge as it is different from the idea I get from the newspapers.
Great race-baiting headline Martyn. I haven’t seen any mention elsewhere of the ethnicity of the offenders.
Seems likely Martyn just stated what everybody thinks or assumes. I guess when the miscreants are caught and end up in court we will know. However, my money is on the likelihood these kids are not from Chinese Asian or European backgrounds based on where the crimes took place.
Is the problem related to the decision to stop the strap/cane at schools? I got the strap once for not calling a new teacher I didn’t know Sir so I am not claiming the system was perfect but the results in society show we need to rethink how we do things. Ancient history “In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes” describes a similar situation to what exists today & the result was no better than what we experience.
People can judge religions by those that profess to believe in it so it is no surprise that most of society has abandoned it but the evidence keeps accumulating that catering to selfishness is not a sensible way to run a society. It is incredibly important that we retain our basic freedoms so the last thing I would want is any state or church to control us but rational beings should be able to do better than what exists today.
“the strap once for not calling a new teacher I didn’t know Sir”
– the head nun strapped forty, 8 and 9-year-olds for playing soccer in the rain!
– the strap for speaking maori!
anyone else remember
– the strap for ….
Joseph. Does being caned count, or are you only interested in strappings ? Your head nun might have strapped your lot, but my nun caned little girls behind the knees for not knowing their reading. She used a yard ruler. I was lucky, I knew my reading, but by sixth form I was whacked by another over the head with a large dictionary for not knowing my French vocabulary – she was a great old girl who I recall with affection, but the infant mistress shouldn’t have been caning such small children.
The Latin nun ground her finger into my shoulder blades and she did worry me. Fifteen minutes into her class my nose would start to bleed; she watched me like a hawk and I kept my hands under my desk, but drip drip down came the blood and I’d have to exit. Being locked in the pitch black broom cupboard under the stairs, part of the repertoire of the young infant mistress nun was also pretty grim. None of us ended up law breakers, but we were conditioned to accept violence.
Yes. Bring in some more merciless nuns from Eire to straighten out these delinquent kids. But wait, is that “colonialism “ ? Bugger.
Maybe the public schools I went to were not so depraved as the religious school system?
I know the system back then was not perfect but neither is what we have now.
Bonnie I attended both, and back then state schools were often much the same at secondary level – strapped for whistling in the classroom while the teacher was absent – dopey sort of stuff. Some nuns were good – the different religious orders in New Zealand could be very different, but I’m not sure about depraved – corporal punishment was a given in schools and its good that it’s gone because it was open to abuse in all sorts of ways.