If Marama Davidson made a speech in the forest and no one noticed, did she make it?



Marama Davidson made a speech.

It was about feelings and no real policy.

No one noticed.

The fact the Greens are still hovering at 6% – which is lower than their 2017 election night result, should be putting the shits up Green Party strategists, if the Greens even have strategists anymore.

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The Greens over poll every election are are only ever saved by their International votes, but this election, with the global media attention on Jacinda, I suspect that a lot of that International vote will sprint to Labour in 2020.

The only chance of the Greens staying above the all important 5% threshold is if Chloe Swarbrick can capitalise on the cannabis referendum.

The woke middle class identity politics that has utterly compromised the Greens have been toxic to anyone outside the uber woke Twitter world and the fact they haven’t managed to gain ANY political support above their 2017 result while the fucking planet melts is an obscene political dereliction of leadership.

They could only get $200m out of a multi billion dollar spend up for Christ’s sakes.

The Greens think banning single use plastic bags and promising to do something about the climate crisis in 30 years is a solution to the Omnicide!

When the country has seen the largest ever protest marches in our history, the Greens are still lower than their 2017 election night result and no one in the Greens seems to think that’s a problem.

The pure temple politics of the Greens where exclusion is the new inclusion, where online Identity Politics activists create resentment and no solidarity are proving to be about as successful at recruitment as Donald Trump at a feminist folk festival.

Green apologists will ignore all this criticism and state that the Greens can only do what they do because of NZ First. That’s horse shit. If you had good enough strategists, you’d outplay Winston and Shane in a second while holding the fire to Labour’s feet, but the Greens have no one good there other than Chloe, Julie-Anne Genter, Jan Logie and Gareth (who is resigning this election). The behind the scenes crew have all the strategic capacity of moss.

Marama’s serious run in Tamaki Makaurau is likely to split the Labour vote and allow a John Tamihere candidacy for the Māori Party to succeed which would be the ultimate irony.

I’ve been a Green voter my entire political life, it’s so sad to see the sorry state the Party is in now with such limp leadership when it’s core issue of the Climate Crisi is the ONLY issue.

Too much time trying to reclaim the word cunt, asking white bros to delete themselves, arguing over trans inclusive language for abortions, attempting to blame white people for the Christchurch terror attack and attacking free speech a-n-d not enough done for the actual climate crisis.


  1. Yes Bomber i would i have liked too see more Green pressure and staying on message rather than these pointless diversions.

    Where is a new green deal like Bernie is promoting in the current Democrat campaign ?

    Where is the pressure too effect REAL CHANGE with respect too our crisis around deprivation and other neglected social services.

    The argument around all this inaction is that the Greens have no influence because they are not in cabinet and only received a small amount of the party vote but Labour and NZF need their confidence and supply support too keep governing and allowing the other two parties room too accomplish their own agendas !!

    The fact they did not make it too cabinet ( unless a reshuffle takes place before the ballot ) speaks volumes about how much real authority the Greens have in this coalition.

    This is not the Green party of Donald , Fitzsimmons , Bradford or Tueri.

    I am sure Rod Donald is spinning in his grave at the direction the Greens are going in.

    So how do we vote on September 19th ?

    Do we hold our noses and vote Green in the hope they will get more MPs and in turn they can effect real green policies and grow a backbone and hope that NZF does not make it back or not support them at all ?

    And if the Greens are hovering around 4-5% will Labour help or be happy too be finally rid of them ?

    Some type of realignment needs too happen on the real left of NZ politics or i might have too do what i have always vowed never too do.

    Not vote.

    • For all the mobilization of the property market you’d think the Greens would have been able to smuggle in a billion dollar public housing programme and a billion dollar welfare programme so the most vulnerable that the Greens report to advocate for can keep pace with rising rents and rising minimum wage. Now it’s time to see if NZFirst and Labour can put together a balanced budget.

    • That is what the right want… Mosa…

      Not vote.

      Natz will probably bring back the workhouse from Dickins if they get in, solving both the poverty, labour shortages, housing crisis and social disorder all in one! sarcasm. Here I have written their new policy for them!


      “The Victorian Workhouse was an institution that was intended to provide work and shelter for poverty stricken people who had no means to support themselves. With the advent of the Poor Law system, Victorian workhouses, designed to deal with the issue of pauperism, in fact became prison systems detaining the most vulnerable in society.”

      I’m super disappointed in many aspects of COL, but Natz will make everything worse, if nobody votes.

    • You cant not vote Mosa. A non vote is a vote for National and you don’t want that bunch of arseholes back! Hate to say it but it looks like one had to back NZ First this year. We don’t have a proper Socialist Party!

  2. If you could see your way to being just a tiny bit more generous to Marama Davidson, she did say that food on the table and a roof over one’s head might be a significant concern to those who lack them, as newsroom.co.nz reports:
    Marama Davidson’s speech was as heavy on helping fight inequality and poverty as it was on climate change policy, noting a social media response she had received when she posted about climate. “You know, Marama,” it said, “I can’t even think about this climate stuff while I’m losing the house I live in because I can’t afford the rent increase.”
    The Green co-leader said: “They raise a valid point. In creating a zero carbon world, we have to make sure people are able to put food on the table and have a roof over their head, otherwise our solutions will irrelevant to their lives.”

    • I don’t hear the majority of tenants saying they need a roof over their heads but MUST HAVE a fan in my bathroom and kitchen, insulation past new build 2008 standards, everything on the LIM, a heat pump to 18 degrees (note child care facilities in NZ only have to get to 16 degrees), vapour barrier, smoke alarms with 8 years of battery… etc… note the boomers, Gen X, silent generation were all bought up in (shock, horror, un renovated, 1950’s, 60’s 70’s and villas and seem to be doing ok) but the magical thinking brigade need it all, for less and so out of touch they can’t work out what is going wrong!

      NZ Maths bought in after Rogernomics, seems to have a lot to answer to as well, when so many in parliament can’t work out that 230,000 temp residents per year all need to live somewhere and the 60,000 new permanent residents per year many income less or on low wages compete with the working poor or housing and jobs!

      Also I heard Marama Davidson still rents a house, even though she is on an MP’s salary! No wonder there is a rental shortage and Greens are so out of touch, when MP’s are too fussy or have ideological reasons not to buy a house and taking up rentals when they don’t need to. Unless it’s a double dipping strategy aka Bill English! Hopefully not.

    • All around the world it is the same problem; rich people can afford to care for the environment, poor people care about keeping themselves and their kids alive and do what they need to even if they know it is not environmentally sustainable. Greta Thunberg could only come from an affluent country. Indigenous people cutting tropical rainforest are not evil, they are desperate.

      The NZ Greens have always had the most voter success from the richest suburbs of our biggest inner cities, and very few from Maori/Pasifika dominant and lower socio-economic areas, the very people they care about most. But the Greens deliberately try to alienate their affluent voter base. If the “champagne Socialist” class realise exactly what the Green Party version of Social Justice is, and that it is these “champagne socialists” who have the most to loose from economic redistribution, NZ Green Party will be dead. Vernon Tava may well take 90% of the Green vote if the voters wake up to the woke of NZ Greens.

      • Your comments are very valid . I went to a Green meeting once and said that it cost money to shop with a consciencebut they did not seem convinced.. 1 doz free range eggs are $2 or $3 more organic veg cost more NZ made goods cost more. When you are on minimum wage and feeding a family these extras all count.

        • organic veg cost more NZ made goods cost more.

          Exactly right, Trev! It is crazy that we end up buying overseas-grown fruit and veggies, heavily sprayed and possibly irradiated, because they are significantly cheaper than our neighbour’s stuff that’s grown down the road!

          How can the Greens justify that? …That we have fruit and vegs flown in from half way round the world, selling cheaper than those from the fella nearby? (…and our local bloke eventually gives up as his costs are too high and sales too slow.)

          The Greens, more than anyone else, should be demanding the removal of the insane 15% GST on all NZ grown plant-based foods.

          I mean, they are the one’s telling us, “Eat more locally sourced food”, and “Eat more plant based food”. They are insisting we need to reduce our carbon footprint. So, they need to ACT on this and remove the bloody roadblock – that 15% GST on those products.

      • I suggest you search Vanessa Nakate, an environmentalist from Nigeria, with as much of a message as anyone else, but is not being taken notice of so much, to the point of her being edited out of a photo of other activists including Thunberg. It is not them trying to act, it is us, not noticing.

        • For goodness sake – don’t get into a scratch each other’s eyes out on the left, finding fault with people raising consciousness, bringing green matters to the fore; not if you have green concerns that is. If you are picking at the green movement looking for scabs, you are a scab yourself and should be ashamed (if you have that ability). The right wing have no conscience or care about anyone, and find it easy to adopt a malign sarcastic view of anyone who isn’t in a position to advance the interests of their capital cult.

          We will hear a lot of shit this election year. So left-leaning people must build positive propaganda on the good that other l-l’ers do, and suggest ways to build on that. And comment quietly that certain other things are not going to help the country and strugglers and not slow the Advance of the Oligarchs and their ‘Devices and Desires’.

          Perhaps each commentr could present their own version of the ‘Trinity Template’ to indicate ‘What we want and need and we want it Now’ for this election year. For me the trinity challenge the country faces – To limit climate change and to plan for and conserve the environment, the soil fertility, the species diversity; To nurture our young parents and children so as to achieve capable, self-reliant, trustworthy and warm hapu-type groups and communities; To participate in politics in an informed and responsible way so as to limit the damage caused in the country from neo-liberal capitalism (the pirate onslaughts of the ‘free market’).

    • Most of the students rented these places, they were expensive dumps and nobody cared because we were having a great time flatting, wanted to live close to amenities, and knew nothing about looking after a place! It worked.

      Now a considerable amount of rentals that everyone used to rent can’t be rented out anymore due to middle class bureaucracy and stupidity! Those renovated in many areas around CBD are worth a fortune and the rents wil match them.

      Why we have ghost houses: Landlord ‘gives away’ Grey Lynn house for a year

      (Now it sounds like even if you give away a house for free or no money you are not allowed to rent out many houses that should be available but for stupidity!)

      And people can not pursue a lifestyle of their choice, anymore as it’s increasingly becoming illegal!


      (Had no idea that Marae’s had heat pumps and mechanical ventilation before pre colonial times and were all dying under the cold, damp, conditions, sarcasm )

  3. ‘… ‘The behind the scenes crew have all the strategic capacity of moss ‘…

    Are they even that ? ,… moss spreads and is invasive.

    Count back to when they started to decline… who was in leadership then?

    Look back to when Jeanette Fitzsimons was around…wasn’t all these weird tangents then. I think they need someone like her and Rod Donald ( RIP ) back to get the troops in line. A bit of camp discipline. Sad , as there was so much promise with them at one stage. At times now its more of a circus act. Still , I still reckon we need them in parliament as leadership changes over time.

    To be honest, we some more old time hippies in parliament.

    A few more like Nándor Tánczos would certainly help. An interesting statement he made was : “When the people lead, the leaders will follow.”

    And that about says it all.

  4. When the Green Party was gaining votes it was all about the environment… now the environment is mainstream and Green Parties are moving upwards in the world politics, everyone can see the evidence of environmental destruction around us, Greens take a mini break on the issue.

    NZ Greens seem to be more interested in collaborating with business and reclaiming their cunts while abusing as many groups as possible from men, whites to boomers to god knows whose next to target… (so when you take out white, men, people over 60, home owners, … how many are left, aka non white women under 60 who don’t work or own a house and want more cannabis… not already voting for someone else or not a voter…).

    Once went to an environmental meeting and was very surprised to see how many older, white, well off people were there… those seem to be the folks that the current Greens hate the most in their middle class identity angst! (Aka their own parents identity in most cases!)

    They seemingly hate a good percentage of their own former supporters, while sucking up to those who hate the Green Party most like giving the Natz their votes!

    Identity crisis Greens! It’s nuts!

    • I can identify what you are saying. I am white male 72 brought up by parents in UK that survived depression and rationing. I was taught how to garden make compost not waste food look after your belongings cook basic meals and to work hard and rely on myself. Many of these features would put me in the Green camp and when National lost last election and they finally got power I was interested to see what would happen. I must say to me they have achieved very little and I do not see their excuse of having to appease Winston as valid. To me the biggest gulf between me and a Green is that I think some people need a kick up the bum to get them working and some people you would not want as a neighbour or tenant so those running the welfare state need the tools to check people out and weed out the bad eggs so they can get extra help. Labour in NZ do not seem to know what they are . They are tougher on benefituries than a real left party should be do not have a clue how to run the economy to plesse business and drip feed unions with just enough to keep them in the camp and not stir up the workers.

  5. Chloe, Julie-Anne Genter, Jan Logie and Gareth

    The more I hear from the Greens’ foreign policy spokesperson, Golriz Ghahraman, the more I am impressed by all she has to say. For example,
    “We believe there needs to be independent principled foreign policy in assessing our national interest, including taking account of concerns that intelligence sharing, even with our allies, may be used to further international conflict, which is not in the interest of global peace.” (my emph). That quote is from this link.

    She makes a lot of sense and it got me thinking: Isn’t it time that Aotearoa NZ begin to steer our own clear course into the future, as a nation in our own right? A course that is determined independently of the various ‘big Bro’ types, be they China or the US or anyone else.

    • My personal view is that Davidson is as strong a leader as Bridges, offers very little, does not come across with any real mana or strength. National have no chance with no-Bridges.

      • What is important is that it is understood when some one might be punching at New Zealand. No one knew Brenton Tarrant was lashing out till it was to late. This fucker was swinging on us and no one got that feeling that he was about to swing on us.

        There is a moment when there is a heightened sense of danger and if you don’t understand space, one of the things that is really important is when first responders are on multi-agency and muti-national training exercises and, you don’t understand space and distance control and when you’re safe, and when you’re not safe – the vast majority of people don’t know. Normal people don’t know when they can punch someone or when someone can punch them back or even how to move they legs. They just don’t know.

        If someone thinks they’re about to get punched and they can’t open up the space between them then you HAVE to be ready. So you have to have someone swing on you before in training sessions so as you see shit coming at you, you’re able to notice stuff like oh his back legs going, his weights shifting, his arms down and then oh the right hands coming, dodge. You have to have already seen this stuff because by the time you’ve read this sentence you’ve been clocked several times.

        So first responders have to know certain patterns otherwise they lock up and that is the scariest thing you will ever see because when things start to swing and people just lock up because they don’t know where anything is coming from and they don’t know what’s happening.

        That’s the most dangerous, it’s almost more important for defence than anything because if you’re in a fight and someone starts swinging on you and you’ve got good defence you just stand there in your fighting stance and you just wait there while letting people swing at your guard and keep moving and guarding and you wait, just wait. You wait and ask the question how much stamina do they have? How strong are there provisions and you just wait.

        And then ask what bitch?: “You only got 30 seconds in you? You provisioned for 3 months? Amateur. Ask the question: How long do they have? And you just wait.

        Then all of a sudden you see there arms drop and it’s like oh you don’t really know how to fight…, “you just wanted to swing on me because you was angry.” And now they’re tired and this is when the real fight begins. Not only did they not train properly but it’s then when people lock up, and go balls deep and start wailing on people and that’s what people do when they don’t know how to fight. They just blow their load early.

        So if an SAS trooper got into a street fight, and the other guy doesn’t know theyre going to get fucked up, he could just take his time with you, and you fall into his place of doom where you are exhausted AND! you’ve been trying to hurt him and then the trooper has everything in his right to crush you, and you know that, and now you’re tired.

        And that’s it. That’s ultimate function of the New Zealand Parliament. If you can’t handle that then you’re in the wrong game.

        • That is a big comment Sam. I haven’t read it all yet. But it seems that you have made an important point from the first. It seems that you are saying that you have to try and get match-fit and be prepared to participate in the greater melee. I don’t think we have tried sufficiently over these pas decades. We know something is wrong, and somebody should be doing something about it. But how to apply our own leverage, we are just one little person, in a very small country with a growing population – exponentially like a locust swarm.

          Many of we commenters are getting off on wish thinking, criticising political thinking and so on. Savenz is having a go at the Greens because they seem to kow-two to business. But we need to start thinking strategically how to get NZ moving or managing better towards favourite goals! There are few enough NZs putting their heads together and caring about us all as citizens of a country trying to manage in difficult world conditions.

          So if we can be practical, well-informed and think about psychological levers to advance policies, help local business to start and continue and be as green as poss, get better social conditions, get more useful education and get business employing the trained people, that would be brain productivity at its best. More of our people making things here, bought in this country with effort to trade overseas as well, would result in a healthy basic commercial environment. There would be less drug-taking and more local co-operatives.

          That would really be a smart country at work that could hold its head up, but it needs to be worked at with good projects and practical plans supported by a critical mass of NZs dedicated to having a good country with good people who accept responsibility for being good citizens. The public good would result in private goods! At present we too often are louche, a good word to use representing what we have to work up from.

          This morning’s useful interview stressing how we need to be there for the young strugglers, the young Mums and Dads dragging themselves through the difficult days unloved by their community, and so presenting negative role models for their young children.

          • But we need to start thinking strategically how to get NZ moving or managing better towards favourite goals!


        • Greywarbler:

          Well first of all we just have to allow The Pure Temple Greens to learn from falling polling results.

          Even now my criticisms of the Woke are misinterpreted as me just having ago at them.

          Yes I want people who don’t vote to vote for us but I also want people who are disaffected with National to vote for us to. So I’m not doing out of my way to diagnose unsavoury rightwing motivations, that’s just being an asshole.

          We can disagree on economic and social policy that’s fine in a big tent but we stand together in solidarity for every young parent.

          So if you’re a young parent, uneducated, starving, cold and someone try’s to steal your baby for what ever bullshit reason that I just don’t care to hear bullshit reasoning right now…, if some one thinks stealing children like this is okay then you can’t be in my squad because they’re just assholes too.

      • The Greens need their own internal revolution. Look to some of the young climate activists and protestors, … bring them in, get them speaking. Some of them have the fire that’s needed now. And, Golriz and Chloe both have a certain charisma – their own kind of mana.

        • I’d say bringing in some of the young climate activists and protesters and the lack (or type) of them is part of the Greens problems.

          The 1970’s feminism/anti war movement/civil rights movement/environmental movement was full of people on the streets (and those people are the older Green voters who the current Greens are doing zero favours to).

          Universities used to be hot beds of protests and independent thinking. No longer under Neoliberalism and Rogernomics. Do the current students protest? Not really. Foreign students are prioritised for short term money, student libraries are shut down while spending the savings on renting multimillion dollar residences to overseas university vice chancellors on nearly double the PM’s salary has become acceptable.

          The current way of protesting for youth seems to be more the individual twitterati/social media and complaining about previous generations (who in many cases gained more rights under their watch aka 1970’s environmental movement, or were screwed over a lot more aka Gen X/student loans)..

          Therefore some of the current protest ‘youth’ seem more polarising than effective and also have no sense of history. Maybe it is not their fault. The university system has failed in NZ for academic advancement. Instead pay your fees, your resident fees and turn a blind eye to cheating and lowering of both moral and academic standards has become the norm. So we now have NZ trained doctors from our universities killing teens https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12288940 and engineers trained here who design structurally unsound buildings https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/405648/230-high-street-christchurch-council-distances-its-engineer-from-unstable-building Nobody should be surprised at the turn of events because neoliberalism is as toxic to society as nuclear sludge.

          It seems that youth taking everything from their own personal experiences as gospel and as the sole injured parties amongst society (fuelled on by neoliberalism), which does not seem true, – when you have a 20 something year old getting themselves to parliament with zero experience, ex cafe business owner with ‘Ollies’ and was not voted into parliament by the public you get the picture…the beautiful people jettisoned in, via a Metro dirty politics media disguised as flattery campaign.Youth have a lot more opportunities that they have ever had in the past and seem to be more campaigning for themselves than society they are supposed to represent.

          The current Greens may meet the ‘identity politics’ benchmarks, may be lovely and have potential but they are stuck in a bubble that increasingly nobody else (including youth) find relevant or relatable, because how you look, used to be considered less relevant than what you did. All this fuelled on by neoliberalism who don’t want people to look past appearance, and go deeper, to find out what is really going on.

  6. “It was about feelings and no real policy.”

    Yeah well not much difference between Marama and Ardern, both good at anguish and hand wringing and bugger all else.

    As an ex member I will be forced to vote for them because there is no alternative.

  7. She would look good in a Possum skin hat and coat!

    ….too bad the liddle St Gweenies believe in blitzing the forests and the land with 1080 poison…bless their little green cotton socks

    • believe in blitzing the forests and the land with 1080 poison

      Yep. That is something that I don’t even begin to comprehend. I can’t even find a reality that it fits into. To claim to be ‘Green’ and to allow that, to endorse that?

      Some of them have lost some braincells along the track, I reckon. Even now, no-one in their party has spoken out against it?

  8. Oh! And about what happened in the woods whilst Marama was making her speech. A bear shat right in front of her but she carried on, absolutely oblivious to her surroundings. Sound familiar?

    • Faint heartsnever won over the citizens with their korero. Good on her for sticking to the mahi and not going all whakamemeke. Kia kaha!

    • …what sort of bear?…a Panda bear?…or another sort of bear?…a Koala ? (did it escape from the zoo?…there are no native bears in NZ…of the woolly sort anyway…but there are Corona bears…ooops is that being culturally insensitive?)…maybe it was a monster 1080 Mutated Possum bear?…lucky it didnt bite her on the bum

      Was she wearing gumboots or high heels?…gumboots are better if you happen to stand in bear shit…was she wearing her little green cotton socks?…bless her

  9. The Greens are too soft that is all they are guilty of. I liked Sue Bradford she would say what she thought and people would run her down but she stuck to her guns. Now I see other political parties have jumped on the, ‘I care about the environment’ bandwagon but really many including Labour are just paying it lip service. National use to call the Greens loony and this has stuck like chewing gum, yet our environment is what sells our country. (tourisms etc) Our rivers and lakes are heavily polluted, we have water problems, we have species becoming extinct, whitebait, orange roughy, terakihi to name a few. And yet all people can think about is them bloody selves. I hear people saying ‘we have been doing this for years its part of our culture’, really so does that makes it acceptable. People need to fucken wise up and get with the 2020 programme. What about our future generations what sort of culture will they have? As a Maori growing up here in the 60s we have had to endure change some good and some not so good this has been forced on us and still is. People need to stop being so selfish and wake up before it is too late.

  10. Newsroom have a very good write up of what Marama had to say, here.

    Her speech was as heavy on helping fight inequality and poverty as it was on climate change policy, noting a social media response she had received when she posted about climate. “You know, Marama,” it said, “I can’t even think about this climate stuff while I’m losing the house I live in because I can’t afford the rent increase.”

    The Green co-leader said: “They raise a valid point. In creating a zero carbon world, we have to make sure people are able to put food on the table and have a roof over their head, otherwise our solutions will irrelevant to their lives.” That line received a healthy round of “Kia Ora” from the crowd.

    It was on social issues that the assembled crowd responded most actively – claps for Davidson’s call for “immediately increasing core benefits”, and her criticism of “armed roving police in south Auckland”.

    She said the Greens had made a start in their two years in government, but needed to:

    – spend another three years building structural support around the Zero Carbon Act;

    – continue to prioritise the most vulnerable in society;

    – massively increase the number of public homes being built;

    – fully implement recommendations of the welfare experts’ group;

    – make companies responsible for where their products ended up; and

    – implement the te mana of te wai blueprint for restoring and protecting waterways.

  11. John Trezise wrote: If you could see your way to being just a tiny bit more generous to Marama Davidson, she did say that food on the table and a roof over one’s head might be a significant concern to those who lack them, as newsroom.co.nz reports

    Yes, John, I agree with you. Marama was more tuned in to what’s still needed, and to the urgency of it, than anyone else from parliament that I’ve heard. Here’s <a href=" that Newsroom link again

    • The public are tuning out. If you can’t conceptualize to the public raising the minimum wage by 40% so you can balance the budget by allocate 10% of productivity increases to welfare reform then you’re in the wrong game.

    • Pity then the government are bringing in so many policies to take away cheap rentals, when the rental standards that people had for the last decades (when there were a lot of rentals available) because they are no longer good enough for the magical thinkers who are too posh to slum it after watching too many episodes of The block and in league to the construction business!

      First the politicians said that they did not want us to be tenants in our own country.
      Then is they said they wanted to provide us with affordable housing in our own country
      Not you can’t even get a flat share in your own country let alone a rental, competition is to fierce!

      Trade Me flatmates ad which expresses preference for Indian or Chinese doesn’t break law or breach standards, website says

      Now we have so much homelessness it is being considered a lifestyle…

      I really don’t see any positive changes for those who are renting at the affordable end, from what has been changed, it has driven the costs up and the rental shortages higher and helping construction profits.

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