1. Another great debate TDB, loving your current affairs show !!

   I disagree with Chris Trotter, who has often written glowing support for John key, even making him and Bill English NZers of the year a few times.

   Fact: Winston Peters was a coalition partner with the previous Labour Government. He said it was one of the most easiest times he had ever had, and that he enjoyed working with the Clark Labour government.

   Winston Peter’s publicly apologized for supporting the National government in 1998, and hasn’t supported National in almost 20 years. John Key burnt his bridges with Winston a long time ago, and Winston has not forgotten. During the 2014 election campaign .Winston Peters was approached and asked if he would support National if John key wasn’t around. Given that Labour, NZFirst and the Greens are on the same page, IMO I think Winston Peter’s would happily take votes off National, which is what is happening, AND join a left coalition government, like he did last time.

2. Thank you Rachel Stewart for bringing up the horrors of industrial pig farming. What a horrible way for these poor pigs to die. Another report, largely ignored by msm, said that 400 pigs were killed in a fire last August. One wonders, are these fires that appear to be more frequent, insurance scams? Which makes the death of these innocent animals even more atrocious and horrifying. This industry and others, need to be heavily regulated, with laws that are enforced. Brutal treatment of animals for profit, and animal cruelty of any kind should never be tolerated.

   • +1 It is barbaric how pigs are factory farmed.

     • Agreed.

3. Great debate and liked the jovial atmosphere from the panelists. Pity Labour seem too ok with the spies though and warrantless surveillance. Very naive to think this power will not be abused. Apart from that, nice to see an alternate MSM political round up and everyone came across really well.

   • David Cunliffe never said Labour was ok with the spies and warrantless surveillance, or that this power would not be abused.

     David Cunliffe was defending Rebecca Kitteridge because he knows her. IMO Kitteridge is just another lackie doing what John key tells her to do.

     • The big problem is Labour gets caught up in ‘personal connections’ when thinking about spying instead of concentrating on the worst case scenario and how to make sure that the public is safe from their own officials and the information itself.

       Not so long ago in Waatea 5th Estate interview, Phil Goff was saying to NZ, don’t worry about the spy review because ‘Cullen’ was involved in it. Now Cunliffe saying how great Kitteridge is, instead of using the opportunity to say how the 24 hours warrantless surveillance is not Labour policy ( because most people think it is, but is it, who knows, certainly not after this interview?)

       I’m not reassured by the casual Labour approach, that because some ‘friend’ of Labour is involved ‘ in spying ‘everything will be ok’.

       Not buying it.

       Labour needs to change how it thinks about security in NZ. Because mass surveillance and 24 hr warrentless surveillance is a slippery slope and the same as National policy.

       Labour has been historically known for an independent foreign policy, No Nukes, that is part of NZ identity.

       Unfortunately the current 15 years of Labour/National has eroded that record as they seem to endorse the same US style security potentially smallpox blanket infected offerings from 5 eyes with their eyes firmly closed and their fingers in their ears. Happy to be a minor player in the spying of our neighbours and political figures.

       We can’t seem to stop P being imported into NZ, or even get an affordable house built, or hungry kids fed, but plenty of resources and PR and spin about ‘potential’ threats of Jihardi brides etc

       Nor is there any strategy in NZ about the long term reliance of intelligence from others which may not be accurate and used politically and by foreign corporate lobbyists, to change NZ policy and to scare for more spying powers, changes in policy (such as invasions), and more fear’ of “Jihardi brides’ type charades.

       The problem with technology is that very easily facts can be changed, contexts can be changed and the one controlling or handling the information can actually make their own reality. And the politicians seem to have such a ‘trusting’ attitude to it all and their very flawed processes … Not reassuring

       Especially when the same information is all secret and can be used to convict and convince people of someones guilt. Very Kafka.

       • But not just Labour, all political parties get caught up with personal connections, it’s not right to single out Labour when they all do it.

         Cunliffe never said all is well with spying and everything will be ok because he knows a public servant involved in it. That’s what Kitterridge is, a public servant doing the job that John key tells her to do, and defending the character of someone Cunliffe says he knows well is neither a crime, nor does it automatically mean he supports the consequences of her job either.

         Andrew Little has a strategy and he’s sticking to it, so Labour will announce their stand on this and other policies when the time is right.

         Andrew Little has said he makes no apology for his cautious approach to serious issues and refuses to be bullied into making hasty statements.
         Look at the public attention seeking bullshit John key comes out with, then he has egg all over his face after being proved a liar and a idiot over and over again.

         Don’t blame Labour for National’s 8 years of corruption, treachery, sell outs, debt ridden poverty stricken mess, screwups and lies. Labour did warn NZ that John Key and his National government would make NZers tenants in their own country. Who lied about Jihardi brides? No surprises there that it was scaremongering John key, who didn’t give a shit about the possible consequences and repercussions, and who knew that what he was saying was a lie.

         • Yep maybe I was being too hard. I just want Labour to learn so they can be elected. It is no good being better than National if for want of a few mistakes not actually being perceived as better.

           My main point is, that in a sound byte people listen for the first sentence and gist of the response. Where Labour get into trouble (in my view) is they over complicate everything and make everything confusing.ie their TPPA stance. Could they not just say ‘This is a dog of a deal and Labour would not sign it) .

           Nope instead…WE love trade at Labour which is why we think we should be for TPPA but actually we think we are not because we have 5 non negotiable reasons not to be for TPPA but we would love to be for TPPA and don’t think we will exit).

           Spying, again they always seem to be complicating it. Kitterage will be gone, relationships change, NZ has the right and expectation that we will not be spied on by own own government or with their approval from outside agencies and that our conversations, documents, emails and so forth are private.

           The NZ government SIS and police are not infallible and get things wrong (often). Ahmed Zaoui https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Zaoui.

           ” Security Intelligence Service chief Rebecca Kitteridge has apologised to Kim Dotcom for the behaviour of her spies, who swapped emails about the internet entrepreneur’s weight and wife while mocking his chances of getting New Zealand residency.
           Ms Kitteridge’s apology is the second Dotcom has secured from the intelligence agencies. The Government Communications Security Bureau had to say sorry in 2012 after it was caught carrying out illegal surveillance. “http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11457032”

           Or this doozy by the herald in describing Phil Goff (another apology issued by SIS, but too late for Labour and the election ).

           “Goff called on Prime Minister John Key and the SIS to release all the documentation they had about the investigation into the Israelis “and give a full and frank account of what happened to New Zealanders”.

           However, Deputy Prime Minister Bill English said he believed Tucker over Goff.

           “If you were given the choice, I think a senior civil servant who has advised the previous prime minister and a current prime minister on issues of national security, man of integrity, I’d believe him.”

           Goff had gone “too far” in questioning Tucker’s integrity, English said.

           “I think that tells us a lot more about Mr Goff and what he’s preoccupied with, than it does about Mr Tucker.”

           Matters of national security had always been treated as bi-partisan and Goff was showing desperation in his behaviour and seemed to be “pretty wound up” about it.”

           http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5388471/SIS-misled-public-Phil-Goff

           • You are entitled to your view re Labour’s response to the TPPA, although you have twisted, it to suit I think you forget that Labour has to tread more carefully than any other party, and not scare too many horses at once, because of a vicious msm is always ready to crucify Labour for their National party masters.

             Can you imagine the media frenzy and National and their sycophants baying for blood if Labour had not of made a point of saying that they support trade when they opposed the TPPA?

             To start with Andrew Little posted 5 bottom lines that National failed to meet all of them, which I am pretty sure that Andrew Little knew would happen. Meanwhile he got Labour’s caucus to make a stand, which was to oppose the TPPA. To repeat, Andrew Little has said he makes no apology for his cautious approach to serious issues and refuses to be bullied into making hasty statements.

             Labour said they support trade, but there is not a lot of trade in the TPPA.
             Labour and no other opposition party has a say in the TPPA, John key will not allow a parliamentary vote on it, and Labour cannot and will not sign it either. John key has done that, hasn’t he?

             Andrew Little said that he doesn’t support the TPPA and Labour doesn’t support the TPPA.

             Have you signed Labour’s Say No to the TPPA?

             http://www.labour.org.nz/tppa_petition

             I can’t say any more about Cunliffe’s opinion on Kitteridge, (he was speaking of the person), than what I have already posted.

             Andrew Little has already recently said he has concerns re spying legislation and concerns for the privacy of NZers. Like i have already said Andrew Little has a strategy and he’s sticking to it, so Labour will announce their stand on this and other policies when the time is right.

             You are more than just a little hard on Labour, I think that is just to be able to put the boot in. And that is getting really tedious. It also takes attention away from John key and National where the focus should be, after all, it is the key government that is gutting and destroying this country and its people for itself, and the top few percent here and offshore, that’s who key really represents and works hard for.

             For instance….
             Heard the latest that NZ’s PM, currency trader John key’s “legitimate tax avoidance legislation” that Peter Dunne was talking about a few years back has been outed as showing New Zealand up as a grubby, corrupt tax haven for the filthy rich and shameless.

             • Like I say, Labour make everything too complicated and let MSM take over too much. They need to start thinking about the public as intelligent people. You treat the public as idiots at their peril, (think bridge bribes in Northland and National).

               MSM crucify Labour no matter what they do, so they can’t win there. Do Labour have a strategy like using social media to get their press releases out there, do Labour support blogs? Where were Labour on the anti TPPA marches. (Did not see a single Labour flag). So yes, Labour maybe be unfairly treated by the MSM BUT they bring it on themselves with confusion and without having action on key issues. They can send off Davis to OZ to get a fair go for the convicted, but will they visibly march for a fair go for all Kiwis in their home towns on TPPA? It is visible action which is most missing from Labour. Why should people vote if they have never seen any action?

               Labour have turned a corner with their recent behaviour. Great to see the Future of Work and in particular some radical speakers who question the status quo. That is visible action. More importantly it is proactive. If they did this on TPPA, spying, assets sales in particular to foreign interests and so forth they would be in government.

               It is clear that Labour has become paralysed by the MSM vilifying them at every opportunity and that is self defeating. But to win they need to listen to what voters want and what is right and look at past mistakes (and not make them again and again). Labour spend too much time listening to what MSM are saying and MSM are talking to advertisers and cheerleading National policy to keep their jobs and don’t care what NZ thinks.

               Little clearly knows what voters want to hear. In his speeches he talks about Labour’s history of State houses and nuclear free. But not about Rogernomics. and to be unclear on free market trade deals at the expense of 6000 NZ jobs, well clearly it will lose votes and confidence.

               Labour need to go further than complaining about National scaremongering about terrorists (Jihardi brides) and start attacking the anti terror legislation that affects every Kiwi’s human rights. I am hopeful that Cunliffe believes in this, but Labour made a mistake on collaborating (for whatever reason) on the 24 hr surveillance bill.

               SIS can not be trusted and need much greater oversight and more accountability and that has been proven again and again by their illegal and questionable behaviour for which they just get a slap on the wrist (if that) and more funding.

               • John key didn’t listen to what the majority wanted but he’s won 3 elections!!! Everyone listened to the what msm were saying, they made sure every other voice was drowned out, that was the strategy, among others, that National used to game the system to rig elections in their favour.

                 What’s the point of bringing up Rogernomics of 30+ years ago? That is self defeating. Goff already apologized for that during the 2011 debate with John key. It doesn’t make a difference, you are proving that, and you cannot change the past.

                 You can’t blame this current Labour party and punish them forever for the Labour party of 30+ years ago, like you cannot blame John key for Muldoon. There has been a very successful 3 termed Labour government since then.

                 You are kind of contradicting yourself. You admit that Labour is damned if they do and damned if they don’t but you still put the boot in anyway. Where is your harsh critique of National, after all, they are the government that’s committing the sins that you are raving about?
                 .
                 Labour doesn’t treat the public as idiots, like National and msm do. There has been nothing confusing about the statements made by Andrew Little and Labour MPs. If you are having trouble understanding, doesn’t mean every one else is.

                 Labour MPs did take part in anti TPPA protest rallies. David Cunliffe was at the big 4th Feb. for example. Just because you personally didn’t see it, doesn’t means it didn’t happen.

                 Labour MPs are part of a new line up of bloggers recently announced on TDB site. Its great that more politicians and good activists are coming to the Daily blog. Other sites can’t boast that.

4. Yep. Yet another very interesting show!
   The half hour just flies by!!
   It’s refreshing to have people on who are not pulling any punches and are saying exactly what’s on their mind.
   R.I.P to the financially incentivised hosts and commentators on 1ZB ,Radio Live , Radio N.Z., 7 Sharp , Story and the Paul Henry Show.
   Waatea 5th Estate has now opened up a cavernous gulf and highlighted what a parlous state they are in .
   While dinosaurs like Hosking, Henry and Garner are still around, their inexorable march to Jursassic Park is a assured. Meanwhile Martyn Bradbury consistently gives master class after master class !

5. Great to see people discussing important issues, as opposed to the mainstream media fluff. Thanks Martyn.

6. Excellent show of ion depth comedy of errors we are seeing by this last term government and Rachel was awesome

   I JUST LOVE HER FRANKNESS SO MUCH, AND DAVID WAS GREAT AND SO WAS DITA SO SPOT ON MARTYN.

7. Also loved the description of ‘cheerleaders’ to describe MSM in particular Herald and Listener. Very true.

8. Rockstar/Deathstar economy?

   I’m calling Worldstar economy: dindu nuffin, talked tough, got knocked out.

Comments are closed.