There are no NZ rapists or murderers on Christmas Island, so not only was Key grossly offensive when he screamed Opposition MPs asking hard questions about human rights abuses were ‘backing rapists’, he was 100% wrong as well.
This simply can’t be allowed to stand.
For those who claim this is just a beltway issue, that Key has ‘read the mood’ of the electorate (as if bowing to the worst parts of our angry and frightened natures is somehow a positive thing) and the electorate has bellowed back ‘give ’em the bash’ – shame on you.
These are NZ citizens having their human rights abused in a way that if it was being done by any other country would be leading to thunderous editorials demanding military intervention.
If NZers are bored of this, if NZers are so manipulated by crime porn news headlines that they can’t think rationally, if NZers are so angry they can’t look beyond the criminal to the human being – well make them care!
Explain who most of these prisoners are. Explain the terror-laws Australia is implementing. Explain how even criminals have basic human rights. Explain that it is actually our Prime Minister’s job to lead for ALL citizens, not just the ones who vote for him.
The Speaker of the House is a biased fool whose throwing out of Parliament MPs brave enough to openly discuss their sexual assaults is surely one of the lows of NZs Parliament that will forever be a stain on our history.
When the sexist Speak of the House gained his job, he first said that the most difficult part of the job would be not being biased. Well he’s proven himself correct.
Key can solve all this himself by simply accepting he got it wrong, that he has offended and insulted MPs and that he apologises and withdraws the comments. That he can’t even do that speaks volumes.
If Key won’t apologise today at 2pm – the entire Opposition should get up and walk out.
This isn’t just Parliamentary politics now, this is about the values we put into that Parliament.
The courage shown by our Parliamentary Wahine MPs yesterday gives me hope for NZ as a country when we have role models like this.
Yes, absolutely they should. Apart from anything else, a collective Opposition walkout will give a strong message of no confidence in the Speaker and FJK as PM!
And also so should NatzKEY MPs, as well as Dunne, the two Maori Party members and David Seymour, in support of ALL their Parliamentary colleagues, making a stand over FJK’s offensive comments and the Speaker refusing to make the PM withdraw and apologize.
That will cause some damage to the Parliamentary process!
Might also make the Governor General sit up, take notice and take some action, representing Kiwis for a change!
The trouble here is that the people in detention basically don’t want to come to New Zealand. They want to stay in Australia. That is why they are in detention. If they were happy to come to New Zealand they could reasonably quickly be on a plane (paid for by the Australian government). The reason the majority of them aren’t doing so if because they believe it will compromise their chance of appealing their deportation. So what you are really stating is you want the NZ Government to stand up for New Zealanders rights to try and stay in Australia. That seems a bit odd really.
It is “odd” only to you,. Gosman. But then, you have little understanding of human rights, unless it is the rights of coorporations to maximise their profits in a free market.
Humans mean very little to you.
Why should these people be forced to “return” to New Zealand? You have not provided any rationale for that.
Even criminals who’ve done their time have human rights. Because if that has changed, who is next to be treated in this manner by Australia?
It will be non-criminals next…
Like this chap; Ngati Kanohi Te Eke Haapu
He has no criminal record; not been charged with anything; and is not a criminal.
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11543381
That is the problem with your slavish support for the Establishment’s abuse of human rights and natural justice. Eventually it catches up with everyone.
They are being forced to return to New Zealand because they aren’t Australian citizens and have committed an offence or fail to meet the Australian authorities requirements for staying in Australia. That is generally an issue for Australia to decide upon not New Zealand. We can make representation to Australia for better treatment before they are deported but ultimately it is a internal Australian issue. How we deal with them once they get back to New Zealand is an internal New Zealand one. If there was problems in that area then you would have more of a case to argue.
Hey Gosman, I notice you pointedly ignored Frank’s reference to Ngati Kanohi Te Eke Haapu, who hasn’t been convicted of anything.
Why is that?
Feel free to explain why in your weird world an innocent man should be deported?
And feel free to explain to us why, once you’ve filled your debt to society, an extra punishment should be meted out?
I’m curious to learn what kind of “justice” you think will prevail in your twisted bizarro-world of corporate power, money, and consumerism.
Take your time now……….
No, I stated that the people are being deported because they have either committed a crime or fail to meet the Australian authorities requirements. In his case he has associated with an organisation the Australian Government regards as unsavory. This is not a recent change. This is something he should have known about when he moved to Australia. All we can do is make representation so that he is treated better before his deportation.
“Unsavory”?
Is “unsavory” the same as illegal?
Please clarify what the legal definition of “unsavory” is. What other groups are “unsavory”? Who determines what “unsavory” is? Is it gazetted by the Australian government?
I look forward to your answers on each and every question I put to you. Just as you put questions to us, on a continuous basis.
The relationship between old soldiers and the rebels is really only one dimensional. Neither asks stupid questions. There are hundreds of ex NZ servicemen associated in some way with the rebels. Yet Ko haapu is the only one charged with terrorism offences.
We are definitely not been told the entire story. People charged with a terrorist offence in Australia don’t get to go to court, they don’t get to see the evidence. Not until the police have had enough time to get there story straight and find something on the offender.
He is not being charged with a terrorism of fence. He is being deported.
So, Gosman, aninnbocent man is being deported without being charged for anything?
Are you ok with that?
By the way, I notice you seem reluctant to address the points I raised in my November 13, 2015, 8:48 am post.
That’s not like you to shy away from expressing yourself.
I think the Australian police determine that fact. That is what their immigration Minister stated anyway. Next question.
The Australian immigration minister relies mainly on protected information from the Australian Crime Commission, the Australian Federal Police and other intelligence agencies. You don’t honestly think the minister signs off on every one of the hundreds per day being deported from Aussie do you goose?
…the communists…
Clearly Gosman doesn’t understand the issue . It is not about staying in Aussie or returning to N.Z. The issue is about human rights.
Sadly the prime minister spouted rhetoric and fear and has now found to have lied(again) with the facts. Added to that if you look at his arrogant sheepish behaviour in parliament yesterday, Gosman, you will see a man who new he was wrong in what he said. Remember, physically touching someone without their consent is deemed assault. Does playing with someone’s ponytail using your position of power to hide behind constitute this. Which of the categories on Christmas Island does Key fall under?
That’s not really the point though, is it? We are talking here about the behaviour in Parliament.
And if you want to talk abut the issue of the detainees, then the point is not whether they want to come back or not, it is about the conditions that they are being held in and the breach of human rights that is taking place.
Do you not think they have a right to stay?
The whole thing is a clever corporate convoluted media distraction from the loss of nation /TPP.
The opposition are also employees of the corporation .Thy are not victims of govt human rights violations and they have stolen the attention away.
This same govt has been told by the Court that it has violated human rights under the UN convention on people with disabilities when it refused to acknowledge and fund work done by spouses of disabled people.
Walk out and stay out hypocrites.
Parliament process does not care about human rights in NZ or Australia.
Whether or not I think they should stay is irrelevant. That is a matter for Australians to decide as it is an internal matter. For a group of people who jump up and down about supposed loss of sovereignty in NZ as a result of the TPPA you are very keen to involve yourselves in the internal affairs of other nations.
Really?!
Hmmmm, for somewho is so modest as to suggest to us that what you “think they should stay is irrelevant”, you’ve made you views pretty well clear on the problem;
Mind you, there are many who would agree with you 100% that what you think is irrelevent.
So how would you react and what would you expect from your representatives (of either country) if you were to be renditioned in the dead of night to a Serco camp on The Chathams?
I would expect that the the nation of my birth would look to make representation to improve conditions and make it easier for any appeal to be managed whole I was back in NY so I didn’t have to stay in detention.
We stand up for them because the Australian government won’t. We should also be sickened by the mistreatment of all the detainees on Christmas Island and elsewhere. But we have an especial interest in the “Kiwis” in detention not because we love them (many are doubtless fairly hard to like) or because they love us (they show no sign of much liking the idea of coming here), but because they are New Zealanders, if only, in many cases, by historical or documentary accident.
Natural law would usually say “you broke ’em, you own them,” but what do you do with an administration in Australia that simply say “stuff the lot of you…we’re washing our hands of them, so they’re coming your way, angry and isolated as they are likely to be”?
Supporting their rights (by default) also includes their right to self determination and their right to feel Australian and to be treated as such.
Like I say the Aussie government should be protecting them and owning them, warts and all, but they aren’t so we will have to, if we want to be able to look at ourselves in the mirror.
Parliament is a waste of time and money- they can all walk out and stay out( inc Key).
Like psychopaths they turn the situation into “about us” and and opportunity to ignore the problem.
The values these people have as corporate employees is not that of the people.
No more parliamentary drama.
No more corporate fighting and self promotional action in parliament.
No more looking up to psychopaths, thinking they can rule when they overfeed and overpaid can’t get along or know right from wrong.
Fair point, Patrick.
In my ‘umble view, it’s not Parliament that is the problem, but the individuals that one quarter of the population have elected into government.
That is the problem.
Mike Hosking waded in on the PM’s side last night in his daily epistle with pretty much the same line as Key.
Again, Hosking does not do facts and evidence, he does adulation and sports cars.
No surprises there! Hosking will always seek to polish Key’s boots with his tongue at any opportunity. I predict he appear on the National Party list at a future election.
i agree they should all walk out..
..as this would effectively close down question-time for the day..(and so what?)
..and will both increase presuure on key to fucken do something..
..and will generate another raft of international media-headlines..
..which will also increase that pressure on key..
..it is the most effective political-tack to take..
..it makes perfect political-sense to do this..
Exactly Phillip. How can it be described as question time, if no questions are answered? I’d like a dollar for every time Carter says “I’m on my feet” during question time, having failed to hold a minister to account. I’d be in Key’s book of rich listers!!!
MP’s on the government side can still ask questions.
yeah..that’ll work..
“MP’s on the government side can still ask questions.”
Wow! Can they???
Next question: WILL they???
The last National MP who asked awkward question of her own Nat government was Marilyn Waring. And we all know what happened to her!
Stop smoking those treated wood shavings, Goosey, they’re getting to your frontal lobes.
Can you imagine Marilyn Waring in Parliament now, with what’s going on at present? FJK would wonder what the hell had struck him. And she would have walked out in solidarity with Opposition advocates and victims of abuse!
I suspect you’re 100% on the nail, Mary.
Well Frank, I’m sure Marilyn Waring would have given FJK a stinging earful he was very unlikely to forget in a hurry!
Although I’m not a National supporter, I did always enjoy Marilyn and Michael Minogue in action in the Muldoon government. Both were firebrands in their own right, always coming down on the side of decency and humanity. They did give old Rob hell sometimes, crossing the floor to vote with the Opposition on many issues. Bet they gave Rob Muldoon nightmares 🙂
Wish the present government had a couple of Warings and Minogues there, to give FJK some stick and burn his arse!
That’s right Gosman. Nonconstructive, ridiculous patsy questions, to make NatzKEY look good! Just as well most of us can see through the nonsense!
Walk Out Please
Make a stand for the rights of Nzer’s
where ever they are
to be treated as humans
whatever they have done
johnny boy and his bunch of leary men
looking after NZer’s here?
What a fucking joke
just like them
There is no other option: walk out.
The Opposition is mostly powerless and only expressions of symbolic resistance will carry the day.
On a scale of difficulty, this human rights issue with a neighbouring country does have its gnarly bits – especially as the bigger more powerful neighbour exercises its will over NZ citizens.
However, as a problem it’s tiddlywinks to what is coming down the line as the effects of global warming increasingly manifest themselves. What then? The leadership on display is pathetically inadequate against what will be required to traverse the coming quandaries, dilemmas, trilemmas and wicked messes.
WALK OUT
A walkout would speak volumes – my only hope is that the majority of New Zealanders would actually care enough to understand the reasons behind it.
WALK OUT!!
And that goes for the Maori Party if they have a molecule of decency left!
Good idea, get those tosser Opposition MPs out of parliament, they’re a waste of time, trying to drag down Nationals work.
Dragging down National’s work is like floorpunching on the planet Venus.
This issue has evolved into something quite bad and nasty. And it’s not so much what FJK said to Opposition re backing rapists, which is bad enough. Now FJK has refused to apologize for his offensive statements, ignoring the MPs who showed strength by walking out of Parliament, after stating they had either been advocates for or been victims of sexual abuse themselves in the past and take exception to his comments.
By not apologizing, FJK is a disgusting affront to ALL abuse victims, male and female alike!
I hope he and Carter are heckled when they appear in public now. Both men are a sour, bitter blight on decency and democracy!
@king cole – yeah, that would complete the dictatorship wouldn’t it.
A perfect direction for New Zealand….
Key has Carter just where he wants him, time for an impartial Speaker?
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