Beneficiaries ‘scared stiff’ of Work and Income
New Zealand’s social welfare system “dehumanises” people in need, with beneficiaries described as “scared stiff” of Work and Income case managers, new research says.A Canterbury Community Law (CCL) investigation, which looked at access to justice for beneficiaries, said beneficiaries felt they were treated as “non-humans” by Work and Income – not even allowed access to toilets during lengthy waits at offices.
Fear was at a level where people were forgoing entitlements from Work and Income, instead going to non-government organisation’s food banks, or the Mayor’s Welfare Fund because of previous negative experiences, the report said.
“Beneficiaries are uniformly scared stiff of the department (Work and Income). The department’s got the axe above their head . . . they’ve got huge power over these people, power of the most basic rights, food, clothing and shelter,” said an lawyer in the report.
That beneficiaries are terrified of WINZ is the point. After 7 years of National, we have social agencies who are set up to say no. Their entire existence is to terrify, belittle and intimidate the weakest members of society with red tape and bureaucracy that is designed to disqualify people, not uphold their dignity or personal welfare.
Because the majority of our mainstream media live in leafy suburbs, the grinding reality of this intimidation and poverty is never understood or expressed. The application form for the dole is 72 pages long, there’s a reason for that, it’s to intimidate the hell out of anyone trying to apply.
We don’t consider the welfare of the person needing Government assistance, everything is geared towards disqualifying that person from a benefit as quickly as possible. With English’s looming welfare privatisation budget, we will see incentives given to private companies to disqualify those beneficiaries even faster than they are now.
We must all understand how beneficiary welfare is budgeted and paid out.
Income to govt in terms of CASH available to spend comes from the PAYE system on a weekly basis – this of course has been a moving target for several years with many companies and people losing business and jobs….. a very SMALL percentage of that weekly PAYE CASH INCOME is allocated for Beneficiary payments – thats all that can be handed out……..if we see declining PAYE figures week to week = then we MUST also see declining CASH money available to be handed out as beneficiary welfare – so that is exactly why there are now so many more OBSTACLES and DELAYS and ROAD BLOCKS being put in place to LIMIT beneficiary payments and to limit those who can receive them….because the money is not there to hand out……well it is if they wanted to make more available – but keeping everyone POOR is the best way to control society…….thats the game in play…….its not about left or right – its about keeping everyone DEPENDENT and POOR.
This is not unique to the WINZ offices – try making a complaint to the Privacy Commission, the Ombudsman, the Human Rights Commission, they all have a LIBRARY List of excuses as to why they CAN NOT and WILL NOT investigate legitimate complaints from the public – from the left and the right – its effecting every NZ Citizen.
This is of course the latest tactic to avoid accountability – simply refuse to take any complaints – or delay, procrastinate, no problems here = move along…..
frameblame.org
But plenty of money for junkets and joyrides for speakers and selected mps
Plenty of money to change the flag to boost JKs ego and take us away from Britain and hand us over to USA.
Plenty of money to pull people down. Its not just NZ its UK as well, everything is going down the gurgler over there.
Countries have leaders chosen to destroy the countries they lead at the behest of the corporates who are intent on controlling the world.
The TPP has been voted on again and Obama has fast track authority, see todays Wake up New Zealand for details.
Just one more obstacle for the corporate lobbyists to hassle and bribe.
Key hangs on whatever is thrown at him because he knows the outcome of corporate control, who he works for.
NZ came out in numbers for South Africa to let black players into the game of rugby ,yet the downfall of NZ under this government has a lukewarm response, what the hell is wrong with us have we lost our mojos ,our fighting spirit, are we so blind we cant see whats happening until its too late.
Exactly, well said.
The whole welfare system is based on 19th century thinking.
For instance, assessment of income tax takes no account of whether a person is in a relationship or not Standard welfare benefits on the other hand are based on the assumption that married people enjoy economies of scale and hence can be paid a lower rate of benefit. For example the Jobseeker Single weekly rate is $209 while the married rate is $174. The result is 2 singles flatting together can have $418 pw or $70 more per week than if they are deemed to be in a defacto relationship. Worse, as singles they can each have $80 a week exempt from any loss of the benefit, while a defacto couple can only have $80 between them.
These provisions are perverse in the extreme but clearly the faster a relationship can be found to be in the nature of a marriage the more the state saves. To think government hounds people through the courts for alleged fraud, sometimes sending people to prison or absurd home detention and community sentences while demanding repayment of every dollar for so called relationship fraud is beyond belief.
We have truly lost our way
for another similar report see cpag relationships report
http://www.cpag.org.nz/assets/141204CPAG%20Welfare%20System%20final.pdf
“The result is 2 singles flatting together can have $418 pw or $70 more per week than if they are deemed to be in a defacto relationship…”
Hmmm… I wonder how long it will be for some bureaucrat to decide that two same-sex individuals flatting together are deemed to be in a defacto relationship. They can get married now, so it’s only one tiny step.
And you thought to polys were finally seeing sense and being nice to the gay community.
Yep, next it’ll be that my close relationship with my cat (as she is very supportive) is in the nature of marriage. I have friends who support me in non-financial ways (giving me second-hand clothes, used appliances) but they don’t live with me.
Yep, it was about time someone did some research on this!
MSD would not do this kind of study or survey, I bet, they are rather busy with all kinds of other “research”, helping them to off-load people from benefit dependency.
Just by coincidence I briefly listened into Radio Live(ing Dead) this morning, and there was the defender of neoliberal thought and practice, Mr Shaun Plunket (aka “Plonkers”) talking about something in the report, which he made one of his main topics of talk back.
All he took from the report was some bit, stating that WINZ have no public toilets in their large offices, that is for beneficiaries or “customers”. That was what seemed to concern him, and NOTHING else. Talk about trivialising WINZ and welfare services, about what has been going on under this government in the form of welfare reforms.
That is the MSM again, the private operators, serving us with endless commercial advertising, and much drivel and hit and run news bits, of little relevance.
As for MSD and WINZ, there are more serious matters to think about, and this is some:
http://accforum.org/forums/index.php?/topic/17116-the-medical-appeal-board-how-msd-and-winz-have-secretely-changed-the-process/
http://accforum.org/forums/index.php?/topic/17163-mental-health-employment-service-sole-parent-employment-service-oia-info-implies-msd-trials-a-failure/
And they also try to bring in some policies and work capability testing methods here, that have largely been discredited in the UK:
http://accforum.org/forums/index.php?/topic/16092-work-ability-assessments-done-for-work-and-income-%E2%80%93-partly-following-acc%E2%80%99s-approach-a-revealing-fact-study/
http://accforum.org/forums/index.php?/topic/17011-the-discredited-indefensible-wca-in-the-uk-its-demise-and-what-this-should-mean-for-nz-welfare-reforms/
To be fair to some WINZ case managers, I must say, that when having dealt with them in the past, some are actually fair and helpful, while others can be really narrow minded, penny pinching nasty ones.
It depends who you deal with, and as it is now often a case of being seen by the next one available, rather than having a regular case manager, this creates a lot of uncertainty and fear for the affected that depend on their whole livelihood when going to WINZ.
The immense degree of discretion that case managers have, that creates so much uncertainty, and it anything but helpful. So those on benefits never really know what the outcome may be, when applying for something or facing one of the many reviews they have.
But all that is intentional, they (MSD) do not wish to “encourage” people going to WINZ to claim any kind of financial support, and the government forces staff there to work under the systems in place, now very firmly shaped by the nasty reforms they brought in in mid 2013.
The system is the main problem, and the case managers at the coal face do not have an easy task, especially if they actually wish to help and may be sympathetic. They have stiff boundaries set, and they must enforce rules, that some would not wish to impose, and would never wish anybody impose on them.
Yet some seem to also love laying down the law and rules, and make it hard for “customers”.
I am not generally scared of WINZ – I stand up to them and they just about cower under their desks when they see me coming! They know that I don’t take shit lying down. I have taken an advocate with me on occasion when having to deal with difficult issues
Yes people are scared of WINZ. A friend of mine ( in her 50’s, ex an abusive relationship) went to apply for the UB as it was then (18 months ago??). She was told that as WINZ would technically be her employer they expected her to be contactable on the phone 7 days a week until 10 at night, that she was not allowed to leave the North Canterbury area at all without getting their permission, even to visit family in Motueka on the weekend, and if she was found to have broken these conditions she would immediately lose her benefit. She was told she had to fill in the application forms online, there were none available to fill in by hand. When she asked if there was a computer at the office where she could do this she was told she’d have to do it at home. She has no computer and no easy access to one so was told she’d just have to go to a library or “somewhere else” to fill it in. She asked how hard they were to do as she’s not ever done much computer work, and was told she’d have to take a course and get up to speed. She was totally shattered by the whole experience, and left the office in tears and shaking. She said afterwards she had not felt so controlled and dominated since leaving her abusive relationship. She refuses to sign up with WINZ at all now.
This woman is normally a pretty strong person, and has dealt with some terrible situations in her life. If this was how WINZ staff made her feel imagine how that sort of treatment would have affected someone with psychological problems, as so many WINZ “clients” have.
I think the public need to know more about the conditions you have to comply with to be eligible to receive a benefit, how easily WINZ can cut benefits for non compliance, and how things like being taxed on part time work at Secondary tax rate and the bizarre abatement regime affect beneficiaries payments. Also that beneficiaries have PAYE deducted from their benefits, and that many of the “grants” that WINZ are supposedly so free with are actually loans that are taken back by weekly deductions from your benefit. Also most people don’t know about things like the stand down period ( weeks) you have to get thru before being eligible for a Sickness Benefit (or its new equivalent). This stand down period can frequently lead to people on low income with no savings losing their accomodation if they are in a rental, and if they have nowhere else to live (i.e. become “of no fixed abode”) they are then not eligible to receive any benefit at all. This is just what has happened to many of the homeless people we now have in this country.
How many low income people in NZ just a sickness away from homelessness.
Hell, convicted crims on home detention get more freedom than this! When National bleats on about being tough on crime, they apparently don’t mean rapes, assaults, murders, burglaries, etc.- they mean get tough on beneficiaries. In the Nationalphile mind, being a beneficiary seems to be the worst crime of all.
A system that was setup to fail so they can radically sell it off to keys rich mates next. Same for Kiwirail and other SOE’s that are teetering on failure.
This man is pure evil and very dangerous for our future as key is just simply a fortune gambler nothing else.
How he got to hi-jack a conservative party by selling the country out is beyond me.
Yeah, I really needed wins these past few weeks I’ve got dishonoured payments and bills coming at me but id rather not bother, the humiliation and the way they treat you is just awful. Ive found work now, two min wage jobs trying to balance them will be hard cos they are both in the service industry and it leaves little time for me to write and look for more meaningful work, like teaching which is what I’m trained in. Sigh. Welcome to Aotearoa: where, unless you are wealthy, you are so fucking screwed.
Could you put the word out on your social network and get many more eyes looking for leads to better work for you?
It can be hard to hit the mind-space for actual writing when your mind is still awash with the day – yet researching and backgrounding are still possible (just).
Hope both your jobs are great for you – and the money-stress resolves soon as.
Give cause for the servant to be terrified of the master and bingo, you have absolute obedience and conformity!
Natsies getting there, creating a state of fear and servitude for ordinary, particularly vulnerable Kiwis 🙁
It’s called controlling the masses!
The streets people, the streets. There for our taking!
Mary A. you are so right . one wonders why we all put up with it ,is it because we all wait for someone to start a revolution so we can all join in ?do we give in to fear? I believe most mps do,this PM will use the spy agency to use info to shut them up,thats what the spy agency was set up to do ,not to keep us safe from terrorists,only the American import who is controlling through fear.
Is NZ so full of wealthy people who want to protect their wealth,or is it the statistics are so untruthful in saying JK has a 50%support ,I think he has low support,,but the Herald will always lie for him and the polls are National party driven.
If nothing is done soon we are in the hands of the corporations and the TPP.then pity help us we are done.!
John Minto grizzles about Prince Harry what about starting a drive to fix things John Minto that is where your strength lies, I would happily follow the crowd to parliament on crutches if need be.
What a sad country NZ has become,thanks to Key.
I must say, though, WINZ was no more pleasant to deal with when Labour was in power And I recall the Labour government refusing to recompense those who had been illegally ripped off by WINZ during the elaborate eartags woman’s reign, because it would be too difficult.
Unfortunately I’ve been dependent on them since 1990 (Sickness then Invalids), and even having survived the nightmare that was Ruthanasia, I was never scared of having to deal with them until the last 6 years. Out of necessity I was pretty good at learning the system, playing by the rules and managing the constant reviews. But it helped that the consistent case managers- often I’d see the same one for years at a time- were able to employ common sense discretion, and weren’t stressed themselves.
But now, I’m with everyone else who’s given up trying to get grants that I know full well I’m entitled to for the simple reason I can’t physically go anywhere near a WINZ office. The stress now aggravates my medical condition so much (something that never happened until 6 yrs ago) that I’ve been hospitalised as a result- how much does that cost the hardworking taxpayer?? It’s potentially life threatening for me to go there. I have a credit card from my student days and that’s my emergency money now. It’s easier to be in debt to the bank than deal with WINZ.
The double whammy is not just how we’re being treated; it’s the fact the rates are being cut all the time so our financial situation is even worse than in the 90s. So there’s 24/7 stress even if we were being treated ok by the system. It’s no wonder we have to give up. And ditto everyone who says it’s deliberate. I’m terrified of what they have planned, especially with regards to work testing. At the moment I’m classified as permanently unfit to work but knowing what’s happened to friends in the UK in a similar position to me, I’m really scared.
I tried to get help from Winz a few years ago just the supplement to help pay the rent. they said NO, my bank at the time ANZ kept making the auto payments even after i told them not too, putting me in overdraft when i told them i dont want an OD facility and finned me for unapproved overdrafts. I couldnt pay them back and disputed the fines, they ANZ cancelled my account and set the Baycorp dogs on me.
Since Ive learned too cope without a bank account, Its tough no access to credit i desperately need for dental work, cant get Winz help without a bank acc. So FJK, FWinz, FAnz and shove your BS democracy.
Lucky my Land lord lives over seas and has yet too discover the rent hasnt been paid for two years. a lot of money that the banks, govt aint getting now or evermore!
If there’s one nearby – try a credit union. They definitely do accept WINZ payments.
And maybe ask the beneficiaries advocacy folk if there’s a dentist who will let you pay off your account like a lay-by. They aren’t all hard-hearted (dentists) even if some of them do have a warped sense of humour. 🙁
cheers for the advice, how ever the ANZ trashed my credit rating so i cant open an account anywhere. As for dentists I have searched all over west Auckland and the Northshore with no luck yet. I sucessfully removed an absess from inside a tooth with fork bending all but one of the tangs down, it worked a treat and the relief made up for the short bit of pain. Am willing to perform this procedure FREE of charge to anyone one who needs it.
My doctor deemed me to be a suitable candidate for the Invalid’s benefit- I was receiving the Sickness benefit at the time. 6 weeks after putting my application in and not hearing from Winz, I made an appointment to see why I was not receiving it. Apparently it had not been “entered into the system” and the case manager said it hadn’t been received yet. I insisted that it had, and said I would speak to the Manager. They told me I would need an appointment, but I told them No, I will see her today and wait in their office until she saw me.
The Manager (in the open room of Winz) proceeded to question me about the need to be on that benefit. I was asked lots of questions about my health and she proceeded to tell me about her brother who had had a similar condition and didn’t need a benefit- instead he went onto some drugs that helped him a lot. This woman knew bugger all about my circumstances and health condition, yet felt that she could tell me what I “should be doing”. In the finish, I said to the Manager “do I need to answer that” (to her very personal question). When she said no, I said that in that case, I wouldn’t answer. I’d already told her a shit load of stuff I wouldn’t normally tell anybody, so felt very exposed. At that point she stood up, walked away and I was left there. I sat for some time, wondering when she was coming back. Upon querying another worker there, I found out she had apparently finished with me. She hadn’t had the decency to tell me, or finish the “interview” in the normal way- but had simply got up and walked off. She got as much as she could from me and then I became of no use, and didn’t deserve the human treatment of being told, “thank you, we’re done here”.
This treatment really triggered some massive “abuse” issues that I struggled with- I felt like a piece of shit on the ground. I don’t know whether my application miraculously surfaced in the office after that, but from then I started to receive the benefit I’d applied for.
This was a totally dehumanising experience approx 6 years ago.
Also, approx 2 years ago (not long after all that ACC confidentiality of clients debacle) my friend was accidentally given some personal files belonging to another person amongst the jobs info Winz had given her to look through. When she returned that poor persons info to Winz, the Manager took her into an actual private office to very politely beg her to keep her gob shut about it. Which she always has. Possibly to protect herself from them deliberately mucking up her benefit. They still do muck-up, but must be from incompetence.
I’ve oft wondered if the current obsession with zombie apocalypses is a premonition of what happens when too many people have nothing left to lose. The Tasman may be a lot tougher to cross for refugees than the Med but the Haves need reminding that people can be refugees in their own country if you take everything away from them. As Mike commented, crims on Home Detention have more privileges than benes, how long before someone gets bloody-minded rather than cowed and decides to biff a brick or a moly cocktail through the WINZ front door? After all, a prison cell is less draughty than a bridge and the food is way better.
It’s going on for more than seven years. It basically all started with that stupid cow and her dangly earrings, Christine Rankin, who thought she could turn welfare into a business.
And Winz case managers are horrible, horrible, people who think any money they give out is like their own.
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