5AA Australia: Kim Dotcom & PM John Key Square Off Over NZ’s Proposed Spy Laws

5AA's Peter Godfrey and Selwyn Manning.

Across The Ditch was recorded Live on 4/07/13: In this week’s Across The Ditch bulletin Selwyn Manning and Peter Godfrey discuss how the New Zealand Prime Minister has been challenged face to face by a host of people opposed to his preferred extension of spying powers.

Key has been chairing meetings this week hearing submissions on the new GCSB bill.

The proposed new GCSB spy laws gave opportunity for the public to challenge the PM directly and this week’s hearings included a fiery exchange between him and his adversary, Mega, boss Kim Dotcom.

The hearings have drawn significant submissions against the draft laws from ICT Telcos, the Law Society, civil society, individuals like Dr Kate Dewes and Commander Rob Green, and Mega boss Kim Dotcom.

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

Across The Ditch broadcasts live weekly on 5AA Australia and webcasts on Live.TheDailyBlog.co.nz and is on demand on TheDailyBlog.co.nz.


  1. This is a very good summary on the GCSB law change submissions by “King” Kim Dotcom and others, as also of the general political scene in present New Zealand, by Selwyn.

    Thank you Selwyn, we need more commentators like you, who describe matters as they are, not as they are spun out!

    Thank you also for the always very “observant GCSB” staff, for downloading a record of this, and to pass it on to the US friends, for “safe keeping” for future generations in the new gigantic Utah based archives of the NSA!

  2. My understanding has always been that the Canadian Intelligence services and probably the Canadian Mounted Police do a great deal of the analysis of NZ Echelon Intelligence data from telecommunication intercepts and trawling. Because much of the analysis of NZ Echelon and defence data is done in Canada, much of it usually goes quickly to Moscow, St Petersburg and Black Sea Fleet as the result of the many active KGB and GRU agents in Ottawa and Toronto. A recent spy scandal showed that yet again, although of course no NZ MP asked questions of the PM and Minister of Defence for the general details of the NZ defence classified information and personel betrayed.
    Much of the American interest in NZ Echelon sources is to analyse NZ politicians, Cabinet Ministers, Act and Green Party members real attitude to defence, international and US issues. My feeling is the sort of material revealed in the Hager emails about inconsistancy of the attitudes of Brash, Keenan on attitudes to F-16 and US interventions and likely other discoveries such as known variance between the public record and certain Act MP real hostility to the US defence polices and defence purchases would have been of great interest and not helpful to Brash getting elected.
    Such data trawling of MPs views for variance is to be expected and in reality NZ deviation from giving the GCSB an effective free hand will not be tolerated in Washington anymore than Snowden. Alsange or Lange. The GCSB is important to give global coverage and the NZ bases are needed for global coverage of Russian, Chinese and Japanese naval traffic and potential and options and potential espionage and US political intelligence on the legitimacy of MPs and Political Parties in NZ. In other words Robertson, Norman, Curran, Arden and Gentler are constantly under observation for variance and deviance. Goff and Clark stopped clear communication 30 yrs ago.
    It is always useful to note the comments of Christopher Boyce who was about to be recruited as a full status CIA/KGB/Lawyer in other words as a top level double agent. Boyce main view was always – the CIA destroyed the Allende Communist and Whitlam Socialist government partly thru sabotage and strikes by right wing unions. The American intelligence community generally has a very dim view of all Australian administrations as left wing shirkers on defence providing only pretend Clayton forces to assist US. All evidence supports this view that actual relations between the US and Australia over defence are ugly with the US rarely bothering the courtesy of appointing an ambassador even of the golfing friend of the Bushes, ‘Butch Swindell’s type. Thirdly Boyce always asserted that the ‘birds will fly’ on day. I guess to stifle the Chinese challenge calibrated at the McArthur level of 12 30 kilton missiles, which should be enough. Boyce after an extensive career in film direction, bank robbery and rehabilitation in a half way house in the Tenderloin always offered the view that Snowden has no chance.
    Two interpretations can be made of Cmdr Robert Green. One is that it is a standard honeytrap like the German General on Petra Kelly. Such honeytraps are standard technique against hetrosexual leaning left wing women politician and would have been contemplated against Helen Clark. Another interpretation is that Green is genuine, although few in the NZ Peace movement would have believed it. Post marriage the Dewe/ Green combo mainly seemed to attract bewildered old ladies and old Christian ducks.
    Also, Green always remained a physically nuggety Naval Cmdr type a, serious and conservative defence analyst not at all, the seen the light Daniel Ellsberg type conversion dancing with clowns and incense type performance.
    Nevertheless at Northwood among the RN, MOD, USN, CIA, NSA types planning the RN campaign in the Falklands, Green would have realised the RN was fighting a savage high risk little war in which the whole RN possibly necessary to stop the Soviet navy moving thru the key Greenland-Iceland-UK gap to take up positions for simultaneous strikes against all USN, RN CVN, SSN,SSBN in an attempt of a conceivable Soviet first strike which first secretary Andropov came near to implementing within a yr of the Falkland war with many crucial units of the RN knocked out by action damage, repairs or the necessity to hold major fleet units in the St Atlantic.
    The desperation and hairline risk nature of the war to save Thatcher and UK from Hard line socialist Benn-Healy rule can be seen in the fact that first – Britain aborted a raid on the Argentine Super Entendad base in which the aim was to kill and destroy everything at the base.Second-Only a lack of an accurate position fix , stopped HMS Spartan sinking the Argentine aircraft carrier in Argentine waters from 800 yards outside the Argentine 12 mile Zone.
    Thirdly the ruthless rook and bishop gambit offered by Woodward to lure the best Argentine pilots away for SS Canberra, stranded in San Carlos Bay after a Super Entendad ( the French equivalent of the Bucanneer) had put into Atlantic conveyor destroying the big Chinook helicopters needed for fast transfer and unloading of the Canberra’s. The HMS Broadword and Coventry had to be held in a suicidal position close to Prebble Island with blind radars and missile channels to maintain the bait with Soviet and US satellites observing 24/7 and all RN/USN Naval and SSN, SSBN communications broken in real time by the Soviet Union. Like the great guys and officers in the HMS Sheffield those in HMS Coventry were incinerated and melted alive in front of their fellow officers, men and friends.This like the GCSB is the necessary price of freedom.
    Robert Green may of course not be of the usual type of RN officer. Like Snowden and Assange he may have found it too difficult to hold the line for his government and service.
    The RN Bucanneers were intended for nuclear and conventional strike. But each RN carrier only carried about 20 small nuclear 5 kilton bombs adaptable for use as depth charges against Soviet nuclear subs or warships. The idea of using the Bucs to strike Leningrad was the original plan abandoned before the plane was introduced to justify these US designed naval bombers, which Churchill fought desperately to can- given the immense expense of Britain developing the alternative US design to the Intruder A-6.
    The RAF Bucanneers if given adequate warning would have attempted to strike at the Soviet navy from bases in Nth Scotland and deep into the Soviet Union with 200 kilton loads from German bases but would all have been shot down over East Germany.

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