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    1. Agreed. Wow was the first reaction I had when I finished reading this piece. Nuggets still do exist….

  1. It’s utter nonsense to claim it is ‘without justification’.
    Yes ALL war is awful and should be avoided, this one ALSO. But look at what the west has done in the last 25 years and compare that with what is happening in the Ukraine.
    Putins hand was forced by the west. Look at Gorby’s agreement with the west (no advance east of NATO if we disband USSR) in 1991 (ish) and 2014 agreement re: Donbase etc. And the west and Ukraines utter contempt of them. At what point is Russia allowed to defend itself?
    The poor citizens (Joe Public) of the Ukraine are the pawns in this awful game purposely being played out by the west. But imagine (look at the recent history) if the west was invading the Ukraine. It’d be flattened and many 100,000 of citizen deaths would the the case already.
    Just imagine Russia backing Canada and China backing Mexico, with potential nukes on the USA border, and ask yourself how the USA or any other country would act.
    Yes Russia is wrong invading. But they have justification. The west have prposely caused this and need to take THEIR share of the blame, that needs handing out. But like IRAQ, Afganistan, Syria etc etc the media will make sure westerns are oblibious to thier own Govts guilt.
    The poor people of Ukraine. Thank god they are blue eyed and blond, or the thier fate would (SADLY) be even worse.

    1. Exactly how was Putin’s hand forced by the west, in such a way that he had to start a war?

      Ukraine wasn’t joining NATO, or the EU. There were no western forces stationed in Ukraine, neither was there any prospect of such.

      This is Putin’s war. He started it without any possible justification, either under international law or as a matter of Russian security. His claims that Ukraine is governed by neo -nazis is a joke. There was and is no evidence of Ukrainian genocide on the Donbas.

      1. Look a little more deeply into it, Wayn. Start by going below to Malcolm Evans and try his link. Think seriously about who wrote it.
        Then go back and re-read the whole thing about Cuba (by Mike Treen).
        In 1966-67 I turned against our support of USA in Vietnam. It was not because I read USSR propaganda – it was because I read US Senators like Wayne Morse and Eugene McCarthy blow US propaganda apart using US official statistics.
        We have a lot of bad liars on our side…

        1. You don’t justify Putin’s actions by referencing Cuba, or that matter the expansion of NATO 30 years ago. In any event the US has not stationed nuclear weapons in Ukraine or any soldiers. Nor had any intent to do so.

          In short, why the invasion now? What has changed in the last few years that has made Ukraine a mortal threat to Russia.

          Mike Treen is also wrong in suggesting the missiles installed in Poland can suddenly become offensive. The missiles in question are Patriot missiles which have only one purpose and that is missile defence. In the same way that the Russian S400 system is entirely a defensive system. In both cases they are technologically incapable of becoming offensive missiles. It is like anti tank missiles. They are a defensive system whereas the tank is essentially an offensive system.

          1. “Russia claimed that the US violated the INF treaty through missile defence tests and because of the deployment of the Aegis Ashore missile defence system deployed in Poland and Romania that could also be used to launch nuclear missiles.”
            https://cnduk.org/resources/missile-defence/
            Why invade now?
            OhI dunno, Ukraine changing its constitution in 2019 to enable it to join NATO, Zelensky promising to retake Crimea and the two breakaway provinces by force, Zelensky saying Ukraine would start developing nukes, and that the Minsk accords would not be implemented?
            Also
            Ukraine has steadily become a de facto NATO “ally”

            “On 12 June 2020, Ukraine joined NATO’s enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program. ”
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations

            Ukraine troops were building up on the LOC in Eastern Ukraine, and the ceasefire violations as recorded by OSCE were perpetrated in the vast majority by the Ukrainian forces.
            Since 2014 Ukraine has been flooded with arms from the US, many ended up on the black market, adding to the corruption and instability already present .
            Who would want the largest military alliance in the world, one which has declared hostility to Russia, on it’s back doorstep, whether or not its legally wedded or a de facto partner

      2. “Ukraine wasn’t joining NATO’

        Yes, you are technically correct, it hadn’t yet actually signed on the dotted line, so it’s a slow hand clap for you. The rest of your claims arise from wilful blindness.

        1. Did’nt Wayne (Mapp) want us to join in illegal wars/iinvasions ,,,,, because we may have missed out on trade deals ???

          Air NZ and the Nats Luxon,,,, know the sort of trade and deals available to make money from https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/02/08/exclusive-air-nz-has-been-secretly-helping-saudi-arabian-military-despite-its-role-in-yemen-humanitarian-crisis/

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/124789317/air-nz-saudi-turbine-review-finds-company-processes-not-staff-at-fault

  2. Great piece Mike Treen, many thanks. So hard to find the real story amongst all the pro US propaganda.
    I feel deeply for the Ukraine civilian population suffering the brutality of this unnecessary war. Russia won’t stop until NATO backs right off and Ukraine accepts neutrality. Zelensky could stop this war in a heartbeat and spare his country the inevitable.

    1. I don’t think he could Greenbus. Zelensky is doing exactly what America tells him to do, and that is the problem.

    2. According to news report the Russians have asked the city of Mariupol to surrender, and in return have offered its citizens free passage out. The latter have refused the offer. This refusal seems typical of the Ukranians generally. Egged on by the US, they would rather fight it out, and see a lot of bloodshed, and devastation of their cities, as a result, than seek a negotiated settlement. Putin probably thought he could he could take the country without a fight, but now he probably has to see it through to the end; and that end looks as if it is going to be most unpleasant for both Ukraine and Russia.

      1. And the Azov battallion holed up there is a threat to Zelensky as much as the Russians.
        Zelensky will be pleased if they get eliminated , with no blood on his hands

      2. Or is it possible the Ukrainians don’t want to be part of Russia? Its all very well to judge them and say they should just roll over

  3. There are bits I dont agree with Mike but the general ghist is correct. After our craven MSM joined the propaganda war on behalf of American war hawkes its nice to see balanced alternative media. Well said.

  4. Excellent piece Mike. Will keep it and share with others.

    Too many people seem to have thought processes like busted mirrors these days, as they get hooked on the instantaneous nature of online comment and information flows.

    The longer view, and wider view remain important. An independent foreign policy, bilateral trade and cultural agreements and exiting 5 Eyes, are absolutely what Aotearoa NZ needs to navigate COVID collapsed supply lines and climate disaster.

  5. `Thanks Mike. The best most informed read on the Ukraine situation to date on this site or elsewhere. It is a pity that Volodymyr Zelenskyy is prepared to sacrifice his country to NATO. If he had had the courage to stand up to the real fight, he would have aggressively asserted that there was a legitimate red line and that the US and NATO were not to cross it under any circumstances.
    Question: What happened to NZ’s morality and neutral foreign policy? Surely they weren’t flushed away with the Prime Minister’s 15 minutes of fame when cuddling up electronically to the Ukrainian President were they?

  6. I’m not sure if Mike would have chosen the image that sits atop his article (some Bomber mischief-making afoot there methinks) but otherwise compulsory reading – flesh on the bones of all our suspicions.
    Former senior advisor to the US the Secretary of Defense, Col. Doug Macgregor, offers something similar in his candid comments on what the conflict in Ukraine is really all about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFngc_8RiVc

  7. This started well and then became a whole lot of conspiracy theory and nonsense.

  8. A good account of the situation. It is America’s wet dream come true (no pun intended) that they can humiliate and downgrade the (actually piss-poor) Russian military by, for them, bloodless proxy, and to destroy the Russian economy. I am not a anti-Russian (why should I be?) but hold no particular candle for Ukraine either.

  9. This business about Putin being a war monger .
    I think this fight is totally existential for Russia.When all their efforts at diplomacy were derisively cast aside, with Ukraine becoming daily a de facto NATO member , it became a matter of life and death for this reason
    NATO military installations in Poland and Romania, have the ability to repurpose as first strike nuclear attacks (The US has declared a first strike attack is on the table) NATO joint exercises have mocked up nuclear attacks on Russia.Bad enough in those nearby countries, fatal in Ukraine
    Russia does not have capable early warning systems from a nuclear attack that could be launched in Ukraine, right on its border, and reach Moscow in 5 minutes.Therefore it can’t retaliate.Therefore it has no MAD deterrent power.Therefore , for its very life it can not have a hostile , nuked up , defacto NATO on its doorstep.
    What to do?After exhausting diplomacy I’d fight for my very life
    I never thought I’d be saying that , but what else.Could they have done regime change with $100,000 worth of facebook ads?
    So I’m not going to bag Putin out on this one

    1. It seems to me that since his Munich speech in 2007 Putin has done everything he could possibly have done to make Russia’s case and to warn the West that at some point Russia would have to make a stand. it seems they have exercised the patience of Job, far from being radically belligerent.
      Beware the wroth of a patient man. I don’t think Putin will stop with Ukraine now he has lost any hope of any reasonable security negotiations with US and Nato countries. Once Ukraine has been adjusted to his satisfaction he will without any expectation of sucess again put his December offer to US and Nato, to return to the agreements of the 90s; will get the negative response he expects and then tell Nato ? US to get their missile bases out of Poland and Romania now. And when a little time has elapsed he will take them out and then we will see how iron clad is the commitment of US to the Nato agreements. I think not.
      D J S

    2. I think that is why the USA panicked when Russian missiles showed up in Cuba. No warning time. Fair enough – yet USA now calls foul when Russia raises same objection to same possibility, which USA promised would not arise.. Like it or not, this is at the heart of the issue, and Russia is doing its own ‘Munro Doctrine’ – an American ploy.

    3. Yes, you can see why Putin is worried to have nukes next door, but equally I can see why Russia’s neighbours wanted to have the deterrence of Nato, given that Russia has got even more nukes pointed at them. They also have a history of being taken over by Russia, and Russia is doing nothing to show that they have changed.

      The US doesn’t do much to protect civilians when they attack other countries, but Russia is now wholesale targeting civilians. Most Ukrainians were opposed to joining Nato before the invasion, now the vast majority are in favour, and all of those ex-soviet Nato members will be arming themseves against Russia. I highly doubt that Putin would believe his actions were going to lead to greater security for Russia. He might be a bit crazy but not that naïve.

  10. And don’t we always hear the mantra “Israel has the right to defend itself”t(from rocks and fireworks)to justify the relentless killing of Palestinians.
    I think all that military hardware parked up on its doorstep courtesy of an overtly hostile US with bad intentions gives Russia the right to defend itself.

  11. Thank-you Mike, an excellent effort at trying to make sense of the current situation. Once the shooting starts the events take on a life of their own. Sadly the people of Ukraine are obviously considered pawns by both sides in this game of brinkmanship.
    If only the leaders could bring themselves to enact youd solution.

  12. What a soup.

    Our withdrawal from the western “liberal hegemony” would not change anything about it.

    And where it is not applied, are things any better?

    China is turning atolls into islands and militarising them to steal both territory in a sea lane and economic zone claim.

    Iran is arming groups in other nations to turn them into either failed or client states (Shia militias in Iraq Hizbollah in Lebanon and Houthi in Yemen).

    Russia is invading a nation state, and because this is one outside of NATO and the aggressor nation has nukes and a UN veto, the only response is supply of weapons for self-defence and the unilaterally applied sanctions you disapprove of. So much for the collective security of nation states in the UN Charter.

    Why do you blame NATO for Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia-H, Montenegro (and later Albanian populated Kosovo) having their right to self-determination? After all USSR set the precedent with all its constituent republics realising nation state independence.

    PS The “suppression of political activity” in Ukraine only applies during the war/martial law. Our involvement in Iraq was not in the regime change phase.

  13. The Yanks, Russians, Poms, French, Chinese all had colonial aspirations up until recently including undertaking clandestine operations against sovereign countries or blasting them to smithereens. But Putin in 2022 using the weapons of the second/third most powerful military in the world openly invading and attacking a basically defenceless country killing fellow Russian/Ukraine citizens and destroying their buildings is a cowardly and unacceptable act. Who would want to live in a totalitarians state like Russia. I was a commie sympathiser once but once I went behind the iron curtain to seek utopia I soon changed my views and couldn’t leave quick enough. It reminded me of the scenes and photos of European refugees escaping the Nazis and Russians during WWII.

  14. A sensible article, especially when compared to what’s present in the mainstream media.

    For example, I don’t watch television but was exposed to some on Monday, the six o’clock bulletin on Three. “Coming up after the break, can only world war three save Ukraine?” What news outlet could possibly possess any credibility when presenting such absurdly sensationalised headlines. As if they’re attempting to groom the public into supporting a massive apocalyptic escalation of war. Behaviour more akin to that of a cult. Disturbing and disgusting.

  15. Very well written article Mike love the reactions of the Russian people to the portrait of Putin in the elevator.

  16. Good piece, Mike, but how can the world guarantee security to what is left of Ukraine as you suggest, without giving it the means to defend itself? Putin has invaded Ukraine while saying he absolutely would not do that, so, if we did not already know that his word is meaningless, we do now.

    I totally accept your critique of the US and the need to reign in its malign influence (your information about the moves toward a land grab in Ukraine is new to me and very worrying).

    However, whatever legitimate security concerns Putin has, it doesn’t alter the fact that he also feels himself entitled to absolutely control his ex-soviet neighbours. His apologists keep telling us that he only wants this or that and won’t go further, but they have been proved wrong. The truth is we still do not know the limits to his aspirations.

    You briefly acknowledge the corrupt kleptocratic nature of Putin’s Russia, and you talk about the fascist divisions in the Ukraine army. However, Putin also has fascist mercenaries, and they are not kept confined within his national borders but are used to kill opponents elsewhere in the world, which is surely more worrying than a small embattled country unifying across political lines against a common enemy.

    I understand the danger of crippling Russia, and I don’t claim to have the answers to how this situation can be resolved without endangering the world, but I don’t think it will involve making a lot of concessions to this very dangerous individual. Between Russia, the US and China we are pretty screwed.

    PS, if Putin is not a fascist, I would be interested in hearing a breakdown of how he is different from one.

  17. Russia doesn’t need a security guarantee. It is Putin that needs it. He is a trouble maker

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