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  1. Right. Cunliffe is Just Like the great betrayer, so we should vote for him?

    Don’t quite buy that, but thanks for highlighting a danger in relying on demagogic oratory.

    1. How is Cunliffe like the great betrayer? Care to provide some proof. You need to establish the existence of false claims to prove the oratory performance was of of the demagogic kind. Emotion-based arguments is only half the equation. You’re either confused or deliberately disparaging.

  2. Oh, I am so relieved, to read this article by Efeso, as most in the wider “media” (circus) seem to be cheering on and holding up Shane Jones as “da man” for “da leadership”.

    I dread turning on the radio, as most talk back hosts and moderators, especially the ones on Radio Live, seem to think that the public want Jones, and would not have a bar of Cunliffe or Robertson. It is frightening what bias is being applied, and how attempts are made to manipulate the public, many of whom have insufficient information about the contenders for Labour’s leadership and for future Prime Minister.

    Many in the mainstream media should be damned ashamed of themselves, to interfere into political debate, which is not proper debate about policies anymore, it is all about “personalities”, agendas, about who has which negative attributes or not. I hear nobody apart from few mention what Shane Jones was involved in, and what has not been sufficiently cleared up. But anyway, it all smells like a highly suspicious agenda, what is going on, with the media, who have so far also cheer-led John Key, and let him off the hook with so damned much.

    So I am glad that someone gives credit to David Cunliffe. Yet as an outside observer, I raise a bit of cauting re the man, re Labour as a whole, as David Cunliffe, same as the other leadership contestants, are shying away from making clear comments on what social policies they would prefer and promote.

    There are people on the fringes, who suffer immensely under this government, through no fault of their own, in many cases simply being “guilty” of being seriously ill or disabled, and thus incapacitated to do work. Yet there is an ominous silence on the side of Labour, and until I have heard and received re-assurances about a fairer, respectful and inclusive approach towards beneficiaries, I will personally not vote for Labour, no matter Cunliffe, Robertson or Jones leads the party into the coming elections.

    We out here want more than the standard fare slogans and oratory skills being applied. Words without backing and action are without much substance. I hope my words here will be taken serious and answered to in not too distant a future.

    Thanks to all you contenders for the Labour leadership job, dear David, Grant and Shane!

    1. It is not for the leadership candidates to espouse policy. They should be focusing on what they bring to the Labour movement and how they would lead the party to victory at the 2014 Election. Policy is a party matter to be worked on when a new leader is elected.

      1. Chris –

        “It is not for the leadership candidates to espouse policy.”

        While I know that, we should be able to expect and get a basic consensus on social policy and what direction Labour and the leadership contenders stand for, and what future policies are likely to come our way.

        Some MPs have referred to the existing social security policies, but they are mostly the ones that were presented for the 2011 election. I understand that policies are likely being worked on, and that the coming annual conference will determine more policies, and send a few clearer signals.

        Leaders should know the bottom line of what their social policy will entail, and therefore be able to give some assurances. We get this for the economic and employment areas, but not welfare, and that is more than a shame.

        There are many out there, who depend on benefits through no fault of their own, and they could be potential Labour voters also, leaving them in worry and despair, which this silence on social policy is creating, does not help Labour nor the affected and society as a whole.

        Having witnessed the draconian, punitive benefit reforms pushed through by the Nat led government, and Labour only letting a few MPs hold some reasonably good speeches in Parliament, but otherwise not comment all that much, that was a shocking realisation to me. It is as if Labour silently is not that unhappy about National doing the “dirty” work, so they can later come and say, well, we may modify this and that a bit, but generally will not do much to reverse the nasty bits of the reforms, like increased outsourcing of services, punitive sanctions, allowing a controversial Principal Health Advisor oversee and promote the introduction of UK style work capability assessments – while comparing benefit dependence with “drug dependence”.

        That man, Dr David Bratt was hired by MSD in 2007 under the last Labour led government, and this is a fact that really disturbs me and a fair few others.

        1. I don’t think we should expect a consensus on Party Policy.

          Now personal opinion is a different matter, everything the candidates have said to date I take it as their personal opinion and will vote accordingly.

          Must keep party policy and personal opinions well and truly separated

          1. Party policies start of as personal opinions, very strong ones in some cases. When they’re shared by enough people they take on a political life in the form of political promises. They are discussed, amended as fit, rejected in some cases and then the remainder voted in as formal party policy.

            What do you think formal party policies start of as? Marshmallow cupcakes? Without personal opinion party policy isn’t possible.

            Secondly, when politicians go around espousing their vision and what they’d do when they get into government have you ever heard any of them say, “hang on, those promises I made, they’re just my personal opinion not party policy”. Since never. Why? Because they’re not stupid. Why say something that would ruin your chances of being elected. But do they and we the voters understand that not all promises or opinions as you call them become party policy? Yes, we do. We don’t need to be told they’re opinions. What’s important is we like or don’t like them. We vote for the person whose “personal opinions” are shared by us in the hope that these will actually become policy, as promised.

            So in regards to “Must keep party policy and personal opinions well and truly separated” what exactly is your point?

  3. Interesting read – and a good analysis of the pacific island political views.

    I’m also convinced that Cunliffe could lead Labour to victory in 2014.

    Forget Shane Jones – the man has too much baggage and not enough depth.

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