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  1. The media are shite really .Look at the headline on stuff .DEAD MAN NAMED AS PATCHED GANG MEMBER .What the fuck is that .A search of birth records would fail to find any one by that name in the world let alone NZ for fuck sake . The head line should have read DEAD MAN NAMED AS JOE BLOGGS.Followed by MR BLOGGS IS patched member of a gang .Why his membership of a gang is important I dont know .When Luxon dies will the head line read SKIN HEAD BIBLE BASHING GANG LEADER DIES ?No the head line will read former pm dies and a massive wastefull state funeral will be held and the country must stop tp worship him and remember him as the pm that fucked nz .

  2. Malcolm if your point is that different media organisations put their own flavour into their reporting, then I’m not sure that anyone would doubt that. The Guardian is biased? Yes. The BBC? Yes. I could have told you that back when I lived in England and the BBC talking heads would adopt that same sneering tone every time they mentioned George Bush.

    Of course I could also point at media like Al Jazeera and compare their coverage of what is happening in Gaza and it will be substantially different from what Johnathan Cook shows about with the Guardian etc.

    Just go to Al Jazeera’s main page on any given day and look at their head lines.

    And we live in an age where all of this media is easily accessible, so it’s not as if people are just listening to “Western Media” (and comparing say FOX to MSNBC I’m not really sure how you would equate those as being at all the same even though they’re both “Western”).

    So I think people have a choice. Find those sources that they trust and follow them or – as I choose to do – try to read everything, even the stuff that I instinctively want to disagree with. For example, I make no secret of not being a fan of Putin but I’m still happy to go to places like rt.com and see the coverage there.

    As for beating your head against a brick wall trying to convince people that you’re right? Welcome to the internet. The good thing though is that we continue to talk and present our ideas and that we live in a place where that is possible.

    1. The point is, is that all the media that you speak of, and mainstream media in general, they are all subservient to govt and big-money interests. They now serve the interests of the powerful rather than holding them to account. Thus the choices you speak of (and the ideas that grow from them), are simply a choice between one compromised media outlet and another. Therefore, we are ‘groomed’ into believing their narratives rather than being informed by them. This is why genocide is allowed to take place in today’s world with only minimal push back. This is why – peace – is a foreign concept to most people today even though most people would be loathe to become involved in war. Our govt and the media, at the very, very least, accept war, they do not rally against it let alone talk about peace.

      So, the bigger point is, if you really want choice and informed ideas then move away from the media that you speak of and move towards independent, typically user-funded media, as largely laid out by the former mainstream media journo and now independent media journo Jonathon Cook in the very first video within this piece.

      1. What and those “independent” sites come with their own sets of bias? Come on. I also read the links that people post here to “inform me” and as a rule they also have their own (often blatant) spin.

        Gordon Campbell at scoop probably considerers himself independent and yet he’s completely biased.

        Just because the MSM has someone funding it doesn’t mean it’s all a lie.

        So as I say. If I want to read different ideas and perspectives to inform myself then I will continue to try to read everything.

        1. Independent media can be biased (flavorsome) up to its arse, but as long as it doesn’t kowtow to big money and or officialdom, then independent it sure is. Bias is natural – it is not the problem.

          The problem is a bought and paid for point of view and a bought and paid for – official – point of view that the media outlets you have mentioned, largely deal in. They all sing the same tune differing only slightly. Take war for example, do you ever hear any of them talk the language of peace? The answer to that is no. Instead, they all offer a range of viewpoints but set within the bounds of the big-money interests that fund them and or officialdom whom they rely upon for access, therefore they rarely rock that boat. As such – peace – the option that the populace at large, prefers, is absent in all their reporting. This is the true tale of the tape right here.

          It is this bought and paid for point of view, that most people are constantly exposed to, that is the problem.

          And the way around this, for both MSM or independent media is to look for the verifiable proof to the claims being made. Big claims means big verifiable evidence that supports it. Big claims or any claim with zero verifiable supporting evidence equals fairy tale time….

          1. I am broadly in agreement with you. I think where we differ is that people seem to hold up “independent” like it has some moral high ground and I don’t believe that to be the case. I think a lot of “independents” – or people that call themselves “independent” lie out of their arses to promote their own opinions or at least are highly selective with their facts which to me is just lying by omission. They cater to their own paying market. Especially the talking heads in the USA.

            “Big claims or any claim with zero verifiable supporting evidence equals fairy tale time….”

            Once again no disagreement here. I was slightly floored by a claim on the last Working Group but I’ll leave that as homework for Martyn’s readers to help get him more viewers.

            I will offer up that a lot of the bigger organisations have fact checking divisions with a lot more resource. I quite like Al Jazeera’s fact checking organisation Sanad which seems to be well regarded. Ultimately though we just all have to make our own judgement call.

          2. “Bigger organisations have fact checkers”….. Says it all, if you believe fact checkers paid by organisations with agendas you will believe anything.

          3. Hey Nick, why don’t you offer up a valid criticism of Sanad instead of just a sarcastic response.

            And also explain how your “trusted” sources check their facts?

          4. That is a very valid criticism in my experience. Where’s the sarcasm?
            How do I trust my sources? Simple you keep questioning their accuracy based upon the record plus viewpoints at variance.

          5. You didn’t offer any criticism of Sanad and their reliability as a fact checking organisation, you just dismissed them out of hand with a sarcastic response.

            You offer no evidence as to their agenda. Give me an example of where they have been misleading.

          6. Morality cuts both ways. MSM and some of those that follow it tend to hold a negative view towards independent media and as you quite rightly point out, vice versa. Therefore morality is only an issue for those that make this so.

            And yes, independents are as flavorsome as MSM outlets, that you mentioned earlier, can be as well. They all have their own bias – fine, they want to bullshyt – fine again, none of this is the key issue.

            The key problem is when media – of all types – bullshyts on behalf of government and or big-money interests. And this, this is the realm that MSM almost exclusively operates within – despite often giving the appearance that they are independent of these interests (which in of itself further highlights this point). To kind of use your words, MSM caters to their stakeholders, they being the big money that funds them and the official sources they rely upon for their content. Their stakeholders are not the general public!

            Thus it boils down to which catering you prefer, the official, big-money flavour and everything that entails or an independent flavour, as you again, quite rightly points out, can come with its own faults – as well.

            And despite all this, again, we can cut threw a lot of b/s ourselves by getting into the habit of looking for verifiable evidence to any claims being made, with the absence of such sources tending to give the game away.

            As for fact-checkers, as long as they provide the verifiable evidence that supports their argument, on top of ensuring that the argument they are correcting, was actually the original argument given, then it should pass muster.

          7. AO I hate to say this but we’re probably violently in agreement with each other.

            I do take your point about the MSM, but generally once you know who their backers are it becomes pretty obvious where they get pretty skewed in their reporting.

            People slag off FOX News but at least they don’t pretend to be neutral unlike the say “holier-then-thou” BBC.

          8. Our fundamentals are most likely similar but which media sphere best serves, or caters to these fundamentals – we are polls apart on.

            What best serves the interests of the people – is what guides me…this is best served, IMO, by (typically) people funded independent media.

  3. The total land mass should be devided in half and the palastinians have the half next to Lebenon and isreal can have the bit closest to Egypt and they can fix up gazza seeing they have totally wrecked it .

    1. There are no possible circumstances under which the zionists will accept not being able to rape and kill Palestinian kids for fun, apart from being forced at gunpoint to desist. That’s fine. If that’s what it takes.

  4. Can’t really bear to comment, except to say this situation so wrong, so bad. It’s evil. My heart is broken to think for a minute about the atrocious vendictive revenge on the innocentin Gaza.

  5. And any time Hezbolah or the Houthis are mentioned they are always Iran backed. Sometimes propaganda is subtle but usually it just relies on people being too dumb to think about what they read or hear.

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