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  1. We all know that sex abuse is the domain of the right .How many National party candidates and MPs have had to stand aside because of sexist emails or having porn on the go .Then there is the act leader who is still trying to overturn his conviction and the former National MP who passed before getting to court on charges of child abuse .

  2. My mum has two sayings that could apply here.
    1) Empty vessels make the most noise.
    2) He who protests loudest may not be the innocent he would have you believe.

    Many of those named in this article fall into both categories

  3. I agree Doyle is green Green. He should have taken the advice of the party to begin with. They know how things can be twisted. In the event that he failed to do that, he should have been dumped by the party.
    He is only in parliament because someone else thought they were above the rules and knew better than their party advice. Surely that should have convinced him.

    I don’t get pronouns either. We were taught that ‘them’ and ‘they’ were plurals and anything else sounds stupid. Worry about the important things. It sounds very precious and not a reason to be an MP.
    These people are in parliament to govern and to be an effective opposition. This is a huge distraction and gives the right ammunition for their unhinged attacks. We know they’re easily provoked and think they are immune to police interest, despite what they threaten and influence others to do.
    The Greens need to look at all their MPs and decide if they are too extreme in any way. They cannot represent us, the other 90% of the population, with oddballs. They need to be GREENs first and foremost.

  4. “Campbell should not be smeared and vilified and wasn’t”.
    So why bring him into the discussion?
    Why not choose some other random Member of Parliament?
    Say Steve Abel or Dan Bidois?
    Clearly there was a reason to choose Campbell.
    That is because he is accused of being “a member of a cult”.
    Which is also a smear of sorts.
    Ben Doyle is smeared by Winston Peters.
    And Hamish Campbell is smeared here.
    Quite unnecessarily.
    The case against Peters stands without needing to introduce Campbell into the discussion.
    In fact, it would be a much better case against Peters if Campbell had been left right out of it.
    Because with the insinuations against Campbell it just looks like a case of smear vs smear.

    1. I disagree. The reason for mentioning Campbell was the close coincidental timing and the contrasting treatment largely by the far right. The blog made it clear that Campbell was not behaving suspiciously just as Doyle wasn’t. I’m not aware of suggested or implied comparable accusations about Abel or Bidios.

      1. You repudiate the claim made against Doyle and quite properly denounce those who made the accusation.
        But in the case of Campbell you accept the slur (that he belongs to a religious “cult”) as a fact and fail to name or condemn those who launched the attack upon Campbell in the first place. On the contrary you praise as “measured and professional” the attempts to create an aura suspicion around Campbell on account of his religious beliefs and associations, and thereby to connect him with child sexual abuse.
        You are not being even-handed. If you were you would give Campbell the same respect as you gave Doyle. You would have condemned those (who happen to be very close to you) who made a meal out of the fact that Campbell belongs to a church which includes some people who have been accused of sexual abuse. You would have pointed out the unfairness of both the presumption of guilt and guilt by association in his case. You would not have used the word “cult” to disparage him.
        You write: “But, to the best of my knowledge and rightly so, no-one (including political opponents) has tried to take advantage of his failure to front-foot better by making insinuations (or worse) of sexual or child abuse”.
        Yet are you not doing that right here? When you say no one has tried to do it you thereby suggest that someone could, and therefore you are insinuating that it just might be true.
        At a late stage in his career, when his mental faculties were clouded by alcohol, Robert Muldoon launched a personality attack on Colin Moyle. In similar circumstances, Winston Peters has now made the same grievous error of judgement with respect to Benjamin Doyle. That is all you need to say. You don’t need to find someone on the other side whose character can be attacked in the same way.

        1. Your wires are completely crossed. My substantive point is that both MPs could have been viciously smeared for sexual or child abuse. But only one was and it was driven by transphobia.

          Cult is not a slur of itself. A cult is a particular group venerating or devoted to a particular figure or object. Cults can be harmless.

          If you are saying that I’m close to the mainstream media journalists who wrote about Campbell’s church, then you are totally wrong. Never even met them and probably never spoken to them. Do your homework better.

          1. You say that both MPs “could have been viciously smeared for sexual or child abuse”.
            By saying that they “could have been … smeared” you are implying that in both cases there was at least ground for suspicion, if not a prima facie case. That in itself is defamatory of both MPs.
            Yet you also seem to acknowledge that neither Doyle nor Campbell have a case to answer.
            You then go on to say that Doyle was slandered, but Campbell was not.
            If that was the case, then why bring Campbell into the argument at all?
            The only possible valid (though clearly and absolutely insufficient) reason would be to make the case that the right slanders its opponents while the left does not.
            In point of fact, Campbell was and is being slandered.
            Members of Christian churches feel that their church is being denigrated if it is called a cult and the great majority of your readers would attach negative connotations to the word “cult”.
            You seem to be claiming that you are unaware of those negative connotations. If you were unaware of the pejorative meaning of the word “cult” when you wrote your article you should be aware of it now.
            “The people close to you” would be those on TDB who published a series of articles on Campbell alleging that he belonged to a “cult” whose members had been “accused of child sexual abuse”. That is slander by association and presumption of guilt.
            In short, the two cases are not that different. Both men were slandered for purely political reasons.

          2. You continue to miss and misrepresent the point. It was reasonable for media to report that some members of a secretive religious group were being investigated for sexual abuse and that an MP happened to be a member of that group. I’m not aware of anyone on TDB accusing the MP of bad behaviour on the basis of his church association but it they did, they shouldn’t have. My final comment on this repetitive and now boring discussion.

  5. People have been using them and they to refer to individuals for years – maybe hundreds of years I don’t know, but it’s not grammatically incorrect I don’t think.

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