Of course 3 strikes doesn’t work – that’s the point!

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Three Strikes Law Political Posturing Of Worst Kind – Labour Party

The Government is bringing back a law that has little evidential backing just to look tough, Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said.

“This is political posturing of the worst kind. Three strikes did not reduce serious offending, as ACT and National claimed it would,” Duncan Webb said.

“In fact there was almost no evidence to show it deters offending, and instead it resulted in severe distortions in sentencing third strike offenders.

“One example provided at the time the legislation was repealed was a person who was jailed for 10 years where the sentencing judge said they would ordinarily have imposed 18 months in prison for that kind of offending.

“Another saw a person get a sentence of seven years in prison for patting a prison guard’s bottom. That was unjust and can still occur under this new proposal.

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Three Strikes Has Failed Before And Will Fail Again – Green Party

Resurrecting the archaic three-strikes legislation is an unwelcome return to a failed American-style approach to justice.

“New Zealand needs a justice system that treats all people with humanity, dignity, and respect. Bringing back the failed three strikes law will lead to grossly unfair results that disproportionately impact Māori, including much harsher sentences than would otherwise be imposed,” says Green Party Justice spokesperson Tamatha Paul.

“It is shameful that New Zealand has one of the highest imprisonment rates in the developed world. This is despite mounting evidence that mass incarceration has failed to bring down rates of crime, keep communities safe, or rehabilitate those in our system.

Three Strikes Targets Those ‘too Brown To Be White’ – Te Pati Maori

The government’s decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today.

During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received over 50% of the strikes, and 63% of those with a second strike were Māori.

Ministry of Justice briefs established that there was no evidence of this policy reducing crime, or having any obvious effect on crime rates at all.

“We know unequivocally that being harder on crime equates to being harder on Māori and those too brown to be white. These numbers demonstrate it,” said Ferris.

“Modelled on US law that disproportionately targeted African Americans, Three Strikes has unjustly perpetuated racism and ensnared Māori with no evidence of reducing crime.

Of course 3 Strikes doesn’t work!

THAT’S THE POINT!

Kiwis don’t give a shit if draconian punishment works or not, they just want suffering.

New Zealanders are so easily spooked by the ‘if it bleeds it leads’ mainstream media that they are terrified and frightened and angered by crime and have passed the point of being rational any longer about prison policy and they just want suffering inflicted on prisoners now.

This is us, this is the thing we have been mutated into.

We aren’t being rational, we are simply being emotional.

This is really about the Political Right strangling off Judges ability to be independent and that war started with banning the cultural reports…

Scrapped cultural reports won’t save taxpayer dollars – officials

Government officials have warned scrapping legal aid funding for section 27 cultural reports will end up costing the taxpayer more, with justice experts adding the workarounds will also take up more court time

…what we are seeing now is right wing ‘feelings’ being rammed through Parliament misusing urgency with no checks and balances dictating social policy no matter how counter productive the ‘feeling’.

Neato!

The ultimate obligation of us as citizens, is that even when confronted with vile feral humans doing vile feral shit, we must force ourselves towards justice, not vengeance.

Look, if someone hurt my family or friends, I’d want 5 minutes alone with that person and a baseball bat, I get that terrible harm inflicted on innocent people drives a thirst for righteous revenge, and I acknowledge that, but we are talking about actual social policy here and because of the overwhelming power of the State over the individual in a prison environment, we must  demand checks and balances and quantifiable outcomes over a thirst for vengeance.

Remember – the prisoner losing their liberty IS the punishment, making prisoners suffer additionally to that punishment is a recipe for social disaster and that’s why we see a 70% re-offense rate within 2 years of prison release!

We don’t want people in prison because the greatest determinate of whether or not a person will go to prison – IS BEING SENT TO PRISON!

We want our Judges to pass justice, not revenge, and giving them more background understanding of the person they are judging plus the flexibility to focus on attempting to find a way for the prisoner to be punished by losing their liberty AND attempting to rehabilitate them so that violent criminality isn’t an ongoing feature of their character.

Judges having the much maligned ‘Cultural Reports’ is exactly the kind of background understanding we want from Judges so that mercy is what the Court is focused on. You can’t get Justice without using mercy, look our underfunded, over crowded, violent and corrupt prison system only manufactures men more damaged than when they went in!

We don’t allow any rehabilitation to any prisoner unless they admit their guilt – seeing as many of those prisoners are on remand and haven’t had their trial yet, why would they admit guilt?

National placed that rule so as to smear dog shit in the prisoners faces before they could gain access to rehabilitation, it was a needless cruelty and ‘respect my authritah’ big dick virtue signalling by National that has created a massive counter productive backlash that sees prisoners serve their entire sentence never admitting their guilt and getting no rehab.

Look you stupid sleepy hobbits, how about this.

You can lock these men up for as long as your frightened little hearts desire, but just remove the bullshit smearing dog shit into the prisoners face by making them admit their guilt, and just give them access to counselling and rehab services immediately so that there is the thinnest chance that the counselling and rehab might actually have an impact so that when they are released they are far less likely to create more violence.

Why won’t you stupid sleepy hobbits just make that tiny, tiny, tiny change and actually try and heal these broken men in prison or is the truth that you want them to suffer with rehabilitation a cloak you use to mask your sadism?

We want our Judges to have these culture reports because it gives more insight into the Prisoner and whether mercy is worth an attempt, blinding these judges and forcing them to lock men up and throw away the key will not work, and you should all be honest enough to admit it.

NZ’s crime paranoia is created by disaffected Māori and Pacifica youth violently robbing exploited migrant labour in the ram raided shops and whipped into a 3 Strikes frenzy by the white and asian suburban voters.

This is what we are now. Frightened lambs spooked by our own fears of the other.

 

 

 

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34 COMMENTS

  1. Three strikes became popular because District Court judges were not protecting the rest of society from habitual violent offenders. To those judges, the 4th rape was the same as the first rape, and the accused might change for the better before the fifth rape if he was put in touch with his emotions, or culture.

    Light sentences were all in the service of the deity known as ‘rehabilitation’

    • Judges follow fairly stringent sentencing rules with a lot of criteria set as law.

      If they do not follow the rules of this criteria then an appeal against the sentence handed down can be made by either the defense or the prosecution.

      Adas bullshit about them treating a rapist re-offender the same as if they were a first time offender is false and probably another deliberate lie and spreading of dis-information on her dishonest part…..

      Give us one case example Ada of this four time rapist ,,, I say you can’t ,,, the (lack of) evidence will show you just made it up,,,, and that you are a serial liar caught being dishonest yet again ….

      I can guarantee it’s a shit-load more than 3 strikes for you abusing the truth…. what should be the penalty in your case recidivist ?

      A compulsory evil clown Avatar to align with what you posts perhaps ….. and I’m showing leniency.

      • B Awakesky. I notice the same thing with many right wing posts. Lots of statements but no evidence to back them up. Like the “1.9billion spent on mental health by Labour and nothing to show for it”.
        Bullshit statement by these right wing clowns.

    • And our Police are still not protecting women from violence, stalkers and abusers. Ruth Money victims advocate said they (our police) don’t have the tools. The protection orders are not worth the paper they are written on, and we already know they don’t’ work as they are difficult to Police.
      Locking more and more people up for longer costs us as a society not just monetary costs the social consequences as eventually they have to get out of prison and be reintegrated. We can’t keep going back and forward political parties need to work together. 3 strikes is stupid if it hasn’t worked in America who have the highest prison rates what makes those twats in parliament think it will work here. Crim’s don’t think oh I better not do that I’m on my second strike they just do it, as the saying goes desperate people do desperate things.

  2. I like 3 Strkes. Everyone seems to be worrying about the offender especially if they are maori or pacifica. I’m more concerned for the victims. I don’t want longer sentences to punish the offender. I’m not scared or angry or vengeful. I want a longer sentence to protect women for a longer period of time. After 3 strikes the rights of the offender to humane treatment or rehabilitation no longer interest me. The safety of our mothers, sisters and daughters matter more.

  3. How about 5 strikes for serious violent offenders? On the 5 strike, you no longer have the right to live in New Zealand.

    • And where do they live Gerald Mann, do we put them all on an island and they can practice lord of the flies such a dumb misinformed comment.
      Speaking as a victim I think we need to increase the sentences for heinous crimes, have better crime prevention and improve rehab for those who show a willingness to want to change. At the moment rehabilitation and the interventions, I mentioned are shoddy in our country. Three strikes policy comes from America, and it didn’t work there nor has the death penalty.

    • 3 is enough, there’s already a long trail of damage by the time they get to 3. And yes mandatory no appeal 501 style deportation for those not born here would help too, might even make some think twice.

  4. Well of course we need to make criminals suffer! Sjambok Girl Du Plessis Allan tells us so!
    God forbid we follow the example of Scandinavian countries where criminals are housed in comfortable conditions, given addiction counselling and rehabilitation. Does that work? Does it reduce crime?
    (Well actually it does, along with decent education, good childcare, generous benefit payments, fair taxation, humane immigration policies – but think of the readjustments Labour and National would have to make to fit all that in!)
    All we need now is some smartarse to tell us that repeating the same experiment and expecting different results is insanity but look at our record as voters. We should know that but we keep doing it.

  5. Private Prison expansion is one obvious goal of Act here. Bump up the numbers, increase profits for capital–baked beans on paper plates with a side of brutality. Kelvin Davis actually got the numbers down by several thousand with simple measures such as supplying assistance to illiterate inmates to fill out forms!–which previously had kept people in for months because paper trails had not been completed.

    Where I live in Tai Tokerau one of the common reasons for getting stopped by cops is “driving while Māori”, cops photograph and take DNA from young Māori with no lawful cause–they do it because they get away with it and Three Strikes is just going to add to the profiling and racism.

  6. And where do they live Gerald Mann, do we put them all on an island and they can practice lord of the flies such a dumb misinformed comment.
    Speaking as a victim I think we need to increase the sentences for heinous crimes, have better crime prevention and improve rehab for those who show a willingness to want to change. At the moment rehabilitation and the interventions, I mentioned are shoddy in our country. Three strikes policy comes from America, and it didn’t work there nor has the death penalty.

  7. If you can’t function in society after one conviction then maybe society should be protected and you removed from it? Why should communities bear the burden of your selfish acts? If there is bias in the judicial system then why not standardize sentences – life should mean life – with no more reduced sentences for play acted regret or remorse. We only get one crack at this life, one swing at the pitch, and time and resources and people are precious. Society should not be expected to nurse you through your violent meth stage or knife fixation and we don’t need criminal apologists gaslighting us into thinking that civil society is the problem. That we should feel the pain of our abuser and be incarcerated along with our offenders for ever more. No thanks.

    • Mr woke it’s not standardized sentences as you say, the justice system looks at precedents other cases similar when they sentence people, and they look at the persons past record if they have one, there background and contributions to society and the serious nature of the crime. The judges weigh everything up and prison is often the last resort and so it should be. Based on your comments we will need another billion-dollar prison and keep people locked up forever not exactly the ideal society many NZers would want.

  8. Lets not stop there. Bring in concealed carry laws because as we know the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Guns dont kill people, people do. And mainly the mentally ill so lets take a knife to ‘mental health services to give them a head start. You want evidence based law and order policy? Look no further than America. Land of the free thinking idiot corrupted by Fox News, living in a crime free paradise.

    • get them high on crack first.. pity we have to do that speed crack and can’t even afford to crack cocaine – anyone got a fiddy?

  9. Labour should drop their opposition to 3 strikes or at least let their supporters vote on it, violent crime affects lower income areas more than affluent areas and removing the worst offenders benefits them more directly.

    • and why is that Daniel? I suggest a PhD in Psychiatry with a fair bit of philosophy thrown in. Then you might see the trap you live in. The lower incomes don’t need any of that, they live it, on the daily and they’re good at it esp. the psychopaths amongst them. The upper income psychos are lauded as heroes. I bet you wanna get that new boat – eh? So you can hang out with Luxo and his mates.

      How about including the worst offenders? How about we stop fucking creating them? I fucking hate capitalist wannabe’s

  10. 3 strikes for having a spliff NO
    3 strikes for violence YES

    however the nats want to fill prisons so they can build private ones-which once again is a policy that fails every day in the US

  11. Maximum sentence – a private prison wet dream for cuckservatives.

    How about no prisons? how about local accountability? It might sound like a soft play but it’s really hard – and we’ve all gone soft.. It’s actually a “community” level thing – we all know who the bad buggers are but too scared to stand up to them and offer them a way out. Eliminating vice would be a good start, and I don’t mean by regulating it more.

    It’s crony capitalism, stupid. It’s state sponsored malfeasance.

    Freedom comes at a price, and I’m not seeing many willing to pay it. So, pull down ya shutters, stay in your homes and play with your things.

  12. “NZ’s crime paranoia is created by disaffected Māori and Pacifica youth violently robbing exploited migrant labour in the ram raided shops and whipped into a 3 Strikes frenzy by the white and asian suburban voters.”

    There is no civilized country in the world that does not have law and order. That is a prerequisite for economic growth. Socialist countries like the Soviet Union, China, and Cuba cracked down hard on crime when they came into power as they understood they could not industrialise and create a socialist economy (indeed any type of economy) without law and order. They did not make excuses for criminals.

    The crims in NZ are not ‘disaffected’. They have opportunities for self improvement way beyond most people in the world. They are simply thugs created by a permissively liberal society.

  13. You can thank me for my service later — just told ACT to its face (!) on Twitter their hypocrisy about 3 strikes and boot camps, particularly Rich Prebble. They know what it is, chum for the masses to support their idealistic ‘truths’, and they all must squirm at the crap of it.

    It’s changed! How they’re trying to get it past the intelligent who know the same old thing when they see it. The dead signs of a dead regime in the livingest world of our species when we have to save ourselves.

  14. Mr woke it’s not standardized sentences as you say, the justice system looks at precedents other cases similar when they sentence people, and they look at the persons past record if they have one, there background and contributions to society and the serious nature of the crime. The judges weigh everything up and prison is often the last resort and so it should be. Based on your comments we will need another billion-dollar prison and keep people locked up forever not exactly the ideal society many NZers would want.

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