The government is shortly to announce whether it will designate Hamas a “terrorist” group in response to the October 7th attack on Israel in which Hamas was involved. The US and most of the western world calls Hamas “terrorists” but so far New Zealand has only designated the armed wing of Hamas as a terrorist group. More importantly the United Nations, along with most of the rest of the world, has not taken this step and neither should New Zealand.
It is for Palestinians to decide which groups they support in their struggle for self-determination but it’s important here to respond to the incessant, hysterical lies told about Hamas by Israel and the pro-Israel lobby around the world.
There are probably more lies spoken about Hamas than any other organisation in the world.
One of these is the lie that the Hamas Charter calls for the destruction of Israel and the murder of Jews worldwide (For example this was one of the many lies in an opinion piece in the Post newspaper recently by Daniel Taub – in response to which the newspaper declined to print any letters)
The truth is that in the latest Hamas charter from 2017, the organisation says
“Hamas reiterates that its conflict is with the Zionist project and not with the Jews based on their religion.”
“Hamas is not fighting against the Jews because they are Jews, but against the Zionists who are occupying Palestine.”
“Hamas rejects the persecution of people or the undermining of their rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian ground.”
In fact their new charter goes further and Hamas accepts the state of Israel based on 1967 borders – the precise same policy as the New Zealand government along with the US, the UK and most of the world!
It is clear to everyone that war crimes were committed in the October 7th attack on Israel. Killing civilians and taking civilian hostages are war crimes under the Fourth Geneva Convention and should be condemned. These crimes should be investigated by the International Criminal Court as were crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Those investigations resulted in arrest warrants issued against Russian Leader Vladimir Putin. The same process should be followed for the October 7th attack on Israel and Israel’s genocidal response. For example arrest warrants should be issued by the ICC against Israeli PM Netanyahu and at least half his cabinet for war crimes and crimes against humanity – including the crimes of genocide and apartheid.
As things stand there were eight Palestinian resistance groups involved in the October 7th attack on Israel and we simply do not know yet which groups and leaders were responsible for war crimes.
Palestinian resistance groups have the right under international law to take up arms to fight against their colonial occupiers just as the African National Congress had the right to take up arms to fight for freedom in apartheid South Africa. Aotearoa New Zealand must respect this right and not pander to the deep-seated racism and cheap political sloganeering of the pro-Israel lobby.
A knee-jerk reaction from New Zealand to designate Hamas a terrorist group would be a further step backwards from an independent foreign policy.
Yes John…YES they should!
Evidence is there, backed by Iran, the main backers of many islamic terrorist groups (Hezbollah, the Houthies etc)
SO the yanks supply weapons to apartheid Israel to commit genocide against the indigenous Palestinians remember european exceptionalism is ova and start getting use to it chump
‘European exceptionalism is ova’.
Really?
Compare and contrast Barcelona with Baghdad or Cophenhagen with Cairo or Porto with Port Moresby or Florence for that matter with Feilding or Nimes with Ngaruawahia and then get back to me . .
JB its ova chump look at the EU its in taters and your venerated apartheid state built on white supremacy is falling to bits. The east is rising and will become the main economic hub going into the 21st Century
I have my own ‘venerated apartheid state’?
You would have thought that I would have noticed something as significant as my own state apartheid or otherwise . .
Losing your keys is one thing but this is just ridiculous.
John – Really? Wow…just wow.
Still knitting Neihana?
FFS have you not seen the footage of what those animals did to those innocent people on October the 7th!!!
Footage that included being cheered on by Palestinians while they drive down the street with corpses of raped, broken and mutilated females bodies.
This is NOT ‘taking up arms to resist an oppressor’ this is unhinged animals living out their sadistic fantasy’s.
Why is the wall between Egypt and Palestine so fortified? What do the Egyptians know that John Minto (who lives on the other side of the world) doesn’t?
Got proof that Hamas raped woman? Please provide evidence and not from compromised MSM like the NYT or the Washington Post thanks.
By that reckoning not one civilian has been harmed by the IDF. Got proof, not the well known compromised UN?
You’re living in hasbara land BG. The IDF flying the F 35 even admitted in his opinion accidentally firing on innocent Israeli civilians but realistically they were exercising the Hannibal protocol in killing their own civilians so as not to be captured by Palestinians to be later used for hostage exchange.
The world doesn’t believe your ‘big lie’s anymore, zionist.
Just like ‘Islam is a religion of peace’?
Both of you can be right.
Too soon.
Or wrong.
It was demonstrated long ago that your claims are wrong & confirmed again recently so crawl back under your rock till it’s your turn for the lake of fire for all liars.
I bet you are a fun at parties.
Read this BBC report and then tell me Hamas aren’t terrorists:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181
Buhahahaha the BBC these are the clowns that said Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction keep the jokes coming lol
This BBC ‘report’ quotes operatives of the so-called ‘rescue organization’, ZAKA.
ZAKA is known for committing terrorist attacks against crematoriums and morgues. It was founded by Rabbi Yehuda Meshi Zahav, who committed suicide after it was revealed that he routinely abused young boys and girls, some as young as five. ZAKA has regularly attacked victims of Zahav and other pedophiles in the Orthodox jewish community. ZAKA has operatives have been caught lying about incidents in the October 7 concentration camp breakout at length.
Of course, these are the kind of people who zionists like ‘James Brown’ from ‘Tel Aviv’ (occupied Yafa) consider heroes.
Well put MK these mostly america pedo jews escape to apartheid Israel to hide from prosecution. They also participate in violently attacking the indigenous population known as settlers extremism who are also known to rape palestinian girls and boys. Its the wild west in apartheid Israel which appeals to colonial settler mentality.
My name is literally James Brown and I live in Helensville – unlike others on here I don’t feel the need to hide.
Interesting story. So why are you constantly shilling for pedophiles?
By ‘shilling for pedophiles’ I take it you are referring to my lack of support for Hama’s?
If not then to be honest don’t have a clue what you are on about.
Should we not consider as heroes the ZAKA forensic team commended for their ability to quickly identify corpses following the 2004 Indian earthquake; the team which helped rescue 8 students trapped under rubble in the 2010 Haiti earthquake; the search and rescue team which assisted Japan after the 2011 earthquake and tsunami; the 2019 team deployed for SAR after the 2019 dam collapse in Brazil? Amongst other international efforts.
James evil Clown more fittingly … Tell me Clown ,,, I mean Brown ,,,, That the Zionists starving to death children, babies and everyone else , in a enclosed Ghetto where they have been bombed and shelled by them ,,,, that the Zionists or their actions are any different than the Nazis ,,, or their Nazi war crimes.
“All 1.1 million children in Gaza are now facing death by starvation and disease as aid delivery is impossible to carry out safely, Save the Children said. Continued fighting, Israeli bombardment and insecurity have impeded safe aid delivery.
The risk of famine is projected to increase as long as the government of Israel continues to impede the entry of aid into Gaza and access to adequate food, water, sanitation, hygiene and comprehensive health and nutrition services for children and families in urgent need.”
If you take the first two letters of Nazi and combine them with the first two letters of Zionist ,,, you get NaZi,,,, how very fitting.
It really says something about how subverted the Labour/National uniparty is, that designating the popularly elected government of Palestine as a terrorist group is being considered at all- especially when no steps have been taken to do this vs. a vs. the zionist entity, which unlike Hamas targets civilians for mass murder, starvation, rape and torture.
The likely reason for this is that Peters and Luxon want to support the ongoing genocide against the Palestinians by doing this, by deliberately making it more difficult to get humanitarian aid in to defeat the zionist plot to murder Palestinian civilians with starvation and disease. If it goes through, it will be confirmed that these people are completely subverted by alien foreign interests.
Still haven’t answered why the Egyptians built a big wall to keep the Palestinians out?
The Egyptians have been brought by zionist after Nasser losing power even Sadat was compromised even though winning the Yom Kippur war in 73 before his untimely assassination and enter Hosni Mubarak was definitely a zionist puppet and currently Sisi also get the drift?
It is easy for far removed spectators and even supporters to pass judgement on those directly involved in an existential struggle and up against military oppression, institutionalised brutal torture and incarceration like the Palestinians of West Bank and Gaza. Palestinians live like South Africans did in Bantustans.
With Apartheid South Africa, back in analogue days when information took longer to arrive, unlike todays 24/7 incessant news feed, there was an ANC/PAC difference among some supporters, and in retrospect the PAC was right, The ANC was more a nationalist organisation that allowed for international capital to continue operating. I mention this because the history of Hamas is a chequered one too, as was the previous PLO–Palestine Liberation Organisation–led by Yasser Arafat. Living in abnormal violent, restricted situations is hardly likely to produce perfect norms of democracy is it…no it is not.
So you support the oppressed regardless of their sometimes grisly errors of tactics and strategy with all your resources and ability. NZ wankers like Baldrick condemning Hamas are basically just siding with the oppressor who have murdered many tens of thousands of Palestinians.
Hamas has the right to fight its oppressors who roots are deep in white supremacy. This is recognized under international law. These supporters of a white supremacist state don’t really understand nor do they care that zionist even dislike Jews and were known to be anti-semitic. Our govts especially this current Maori-hating white supremacist govt will probably disregard international norms and lick the backsides of the USA. Zionism has infected the world with its lies claiming that Jews are a race similarly what Hitler said. Our education system has been long compromised and has taught generations of NZers wrongly about the state of Israel and corrupted the minds of what being Jewish means.
Thoughts and aroha go out to ‘Aaron Bushnell’ the serving US airman and his brave act of self immolation in front of the Israeli embassy in the US in solidarity with the indigenous palestinian.
Free Palestine
You lost me at white supremacy.
That because you’re historically illiterate and have been brainwashed. The original zionist weren’t brown or black people they were white. They wanted to create a jewish state without including the jews of color. However they had to include the arab jews to bolster their numbers because most of European jews had been genocided in the holocaust also ethnically cleansed the indigenous population who had been the manual laborers of Palestine so needed workers to fill the displacement. They treated the arab jews like scum making them wash in DDT before letting them enter the newly created apartheid state. And the african jewish woman were sterilised without their knowledge so they wouldn’t breed black babies.
What is your view on the 400,000 killed in Syria.
I guess one can blame that and all the people killed in Yemen on Jewish aggression…..
I feel kind of sorry for people with cooked brains.
For services to neo-liberalism, British war criminal tries to give knighthood honour to Syrian war criminal.
https://www.declassifieduk.org/revealed-tony-blairs-extraordinary-efforts-to-court-syrias-dictators/
“What is your view on the 400,000 killed in Syria.” jkt
My view on the 400,000 killed in Syria, the vast majority, by the Assad regime, is the same as the Syrian people. The Syrian people view Assad as a murderous dictator in the pay of Western imperialists, whose neoliberal economic ‘reform’ of the Syrian economy at the behest of the West, enriched foreign US owned banks and the small coterie around Assad, at the expense of the Syrian people already impoverished by decades of brutal oppression and exploitation by the Assad family dictatorship. The first thing to be privatised under the Western imperialist economic reforms was Syria’s formerly free public health system.
When the Syrian people protested, the Assad regime, beat, tortured, detained, ‘disappeared’, and murdered thousands of people, sparking the civil war in which the Assad regime killed tens of thousands more, mostly civilians suspected of being sympathetic to the rebels.
The popular Syrian protest song of the time; “Time for you to go Bashar”
Has the words; “Mahar you’re a coward you’re the agent of the US.
Time for you to go Bashar, you create thieves every day, Shaleesh, Rami and Mahar”
The “Mahar” that this protest song refers to is, General Mahar Assad, brother of the dictator Bashar Assad. Mahar is generally recognised as ordering the mass killing and detention of protesters.
The “Rami” that the song refers to is Rami Makhlouf, Basha Assad’s cousin. And the richest man in Syria.
Rami Makhlouf, is commonly known in Syria as “Mr Ten Percent”, for the personal cut he got for his role in selling off and privatising Syrian state assets flogged off to Western financial interests.
The neo-liberal reforms imposed on Syria by Makhlouf devastated the working people of Syria, while increasing the incomes and privilege of the wealthy elite around Assad.
To preserve their positions as the rulers of Syria, Mahar Assad, Rami Makhlouf and Bashaf Assad are responsible for monstrous crimes against humanity.
An example of their crimes, the singer of this song, body was found in the river with his tongue cut out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCS8SsFOBAI
..
If you think setting yourself on fire is brave you are no better than the terrorists.
If you think murdering innocent people is alright then you are a terrorist.
Oh Jack da snack the bravery of the patriot towards humanity ‘Aaron Bushnell’ is that he didn’t terrorise anyone but himself. He didn’t want to participate in the genocidal conduct perpetrated by apartheid Israel & its supporters. He is a hero and will be forever encapsulated in our historic memories.
Free Palestine
Oh great. Celebrating martyrdom. Do us all a favour…
Martyrdom?
the terroists run this country
bit of an exaggeration to call the nats terrorists gordon
How about totalitarians who are abusing power and lying.
And there I was thinking it was militant drag queens that ran the country . .
Is this a whitewash John?
And the leadership of Hamas says what?
We already designate the military wing of Hamas as terrorists. And that’s all there is; depraved Iranian sponsored puppets, Hamas.
You can designate them Eurovision Song Contest winners for 2024 if you like. It doesn’t excuse what Netanyahu and the IDF have been doing.
https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/counterterrorism/designated-entities?nondesktop
Gaby has previously told us ,,, repeatedly ,,, that Hamas WERE ALREADY on our designated list of terrorists.
What a non-surprise he was telling lies ,,, which I pointed out at the time,,,, Hamas is to Al Qassam what Sinn Fein is to the IRA ,,,, and Gabys a genocidal bull-shitter.
And once again, asleepsy, you prove you can’t read or reason. All you’re good for is slinging insults, which prove you have nothing worthwhile to say. Anyone who denies that Hamas are terrorists after what they did on 7/10 is a moral bankrupt. Find another way to expiate your Holocaust guilt.
And there’s the holocaust mention again! FFS, that’s a tired old bullshit excuse.
Good to hear the truth from a NZ source. To go along with the intelligent international experts, mostly Jewish.
The opposing commenters here are puddles of piss around a public toilet. Aim at the bowl of truth no matter.
That’s it – I’m out of this shit hole site. I used to come here to enjoy a variety of differing opinions to challenge my thinking. There’s some real sickos on here. I guess you can never tell what’s going on in people’s minds. Owen Jones would be proud to be numbered among most of you.
Yup, TS, fully agree. It’s a sewer of disturbing antisemitism.
Confirmed. Minto supports Hamas and terrorism
And Stephen has shit for brains.
Wow really jack, a little advise – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q
Turns out Aaron Bushnell was a highly disturbed leftist anarchist extremist brought up in a religious cult.
Great company the left keeps.
Poor man and yup had to be something else going on . .
James Brown/Clown — “yup had to be something else going on ….
” getting orders to prepare to participate in a genocide of millions of civilians, half of whom are children’ is obviously nothing to James Brown ….
Actually J Brown/evil Clown is far far worse than that ,,,, he’s literally a AoNZ example of one of the piece of shit tough guys described here ..– “The other day I shared a report from an American doctor saying that IDF snipers have been picking off Gazan children with single shots to the head, and I again received a comment from someone saying “Fuck around and find out.” ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,. They’re essentially standing over a pile of child corpses and puffing their chests like a guy who just won a pub brawl.”
That’s you eh James ,,,,, that’s your attitude and the exact phrase you have used to describe Israels actions …. when half of whom they have slaughtered/murdered have been children,,, in their collective punishment war crimes.
And you can’t bull-shit or claim Israel is not targeting them ,,,, As the small children will be the first to die from the starvation/famine Israel has deliberately created….. FAFO again James?
NaZi supporter.
Israel Supporters Are Some Of The Worst People In The World https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/israel-supporters-are-some-of-the
You are literally nuttier than squirrel shit.
Yes, yes, we know you ‘people’ consider all Christians to be ‘cultists’ and say that the Prophet Jesus is boiling in a vat of s*men in your Talmud. However, it’s not very convincing to those of us who respect human religions.
Mohammed Khan would condemn a human religion founded by a warlord, spread by the sword and decrees the death penalty for apostates I take it?
Actually he was a well articulate individual and was about to be deployed to apartheid Israel to participate in the genocide of the indigenous Palestinians. Its no easy feat becoming a pilot flying the most advanced military aircrafts and your intelligence has to be at a high level. Aaron Bushnell is a patriot to humanity self immolation in solidarity of the most persecuted peoples in the entire world. He is a hero
He wasn’t a pilot he was an IT nerd.
And you still don’t care that it was the activities in Gaza that tipped him over the edge?
Hamas are freedom fighters, Bushnell is a hero.
SNAFU
Your contention that the “new charter goes further and accepts the state of Israel based on 1967 borders” is misleading. The sole mention of Israel in the new we’re-the-good-guys-now document is in Article 18 which claims “the establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal.”
Presumably you base your claim on Article 20 where Hamas considers the establishment of a Palestinian state. “with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967” as their acceptance of the legitimacy of the Israeli state. It is not and cannot be when, in the previous sentence, Hamas “rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea.” https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas.
The 2017 sham document was a transactional response to the organization’s circumstances rather than a transformative statement. Hamas was politically isolated, its economic management of Gaza was reaching crisis proportions, it was under pressure from the PA, which wouldn’t pay the Israelis to supply electricity and the group was increasingly out of step with the Arab world. It may have been intended to demonstrate a softer edge in the eyes of the international community and to make Hamas more attractive and fundable but their subsequent actions proved the group is still the religious manifestation of Palestinian nationalism displayed in all its malevolence in the 1988 charter.
They have and they are John.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350197047/entirety-hamas-designated-terrorist-entity
Bravo, Winston!
He wasn’t a pilot he was an IT nerd.
You seem to have blocked me here at my response to the people just below me but maybe I didn’t press send.
Free speech works bloody well on sites like this. Cut off 9 of your volunteers’ fingers if not.
Lprent and C.Trotter were wrong, not me. And you Martyn have gone off into Right-wing dead-ends regularly. Why we sigh. Feminism is Leftism, mate. You don’t help the cause with your funny personal ideas.