First Leaders Debate – A carnival of mediocrity where NZ was the loser


Where two old souls go slowly mad, National Mum and Labour Dad.

James K Baxter – the Ballard of Calvert Street


Jesus last nights debate was mediocre.

The first leaders debate that Jessica Mutch heroically attempted to keep relevant was dull and exceptionally boring.

The format was tiresome, the questions predictable, the arguments used weak.

Chippy and Luxon politely played ping pong which is super dangerous for Labour because all Luxon had to do to win was turn up and not fall over!

Luxon’s interviews are train wrecks and his walking away from media when the hard questions start is now legendary, so all he had to do was not pass out live on TV, which he managed to do, so he was the winner!

TDB Recommends

Chippy had some moments and the fire was there, but who the fuck is helping him train for these debates  because NZers want a fighter, not Jacinda’s bland neo-kindness!

Labour’s incremental nothings serve no master other than the Right!

The debate was full of dull lifeless answers that peddled talking points rather than answers and vision.

Nothing either of them said will do a fucking thing to confront the challenges in front of us as a people or as a nation.

Labour believe rearranging the bureaucratic systems will somehow save NZ because so much of their Professional Managerial Middle Class activists work in Ministry comms where as National believe slashing everything that moves will solve our issues.

Chippy either brings it in these debates or he loses the election.

It’s as simple as that.

When you consider the radical shift to the right National and ACT represents, the biggest loser last night was New Zealand.

The only winners were the minor parties!

Oh, BTW – our Post Leaders Debate live from Backbenchers Pub in Wellington was raucous, hilarious and once again a triumph for all involved.



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  1. Chippie’s goneburger. Asked what Labour would do about things he would answer. “What we won’t do is ” then promote all national’s policies for them

      • See, @bob, the problem I have with your comment is that you lay claim to having had thoughts. @ Brom above suggests ” Chippie’s goneburger” What does that even mean..? Can’t he be gonechickenmcnuggets instead? He could also be gonefushnchups, couldn’t he? Could he have goneredcurrychickenthaihotextracorriander instead? Tastier than a goneburger I’d a thought. Who else has thought (Steady bob, not yet.) that perhaps our broader politics is, in fact, a reflection of us mopes? What’s that called in physics where the thing being observed behaves in a manner reflecting the way it’s being observed?
        Perhaps the reason why we have sad as fuck politics, illegal pot, impossible to get E and mean, miserable cunts living in plasti-boxes while surrounded by floral wall paper and robot furniture is because of us. They’re corralled by fear and doomed to watching day time Tee Vee all day because it’s cheap then they get drunk by 5.30 pm. At 4.00 am they’re wide awake with heart palpitations and freaking out about how life’s come to this!
        Politicians should be flamboyant and vivacious! They should be loud, proud and brilliant and addicted to at least one ‘substance’ and I hate the word ‘substance’. Jesus! Just say yes to DRUGS! Fuck the hugs unless they come with drugs and fucking! Hugs AND drugs are a pretty good combination, just ask Russell Brand. ( Yeah-yeah. Nothing’s proven so fuck off. ) We’re a small country of smaller, duller, uglier people who go into a state of semi-erect frenzy at the thought of a thousand dollars. No wonder then that we have dull ugly politicians lying back while thinking of the money as dull sober chaos ensues, in an orderly manner of course, all around them.

      • The debate showed me, that if you vote National, you’ll be getting Labour-Lite, with a sprinkling of the more extreme from NZfirst and Act, for good measure.
        Though Labour has provided strong and stable govt over the last 6 years, National has complained that Labour has done very little, but National actually want to turn back the clock, and go back to their policies from 2017. Reinstating National’s kiddy boot camps that had an 80% failure rate, in comparison to Labour’s flagship program that has an 80% success rate. Reinstating tax breaks for landlords, and making it easy to kick out tenants, and allowing back foreign speculators, is great news for home owners and landlords and real estate agents and tycoons, but not so great for renters and those wanting to buy a home. And of course, they will turn back industrial relations laws, while at the same time importing more foreign workers, that will increase the unemployment rate, so they will then likely have a crackdown on the unemployed, as sure as night follows day, because heck they are National, so what do you expect. And their usual attempt at buying voters with unfunded tax cut bribes which sound more like a scam, and pale in comparison to Labour’s $7 hourly increase, to the lowest paid workers. Nationals proposed foreign buyers tax may even be illegal, so it seems that the party who were happy to steal Eminem’s music, isn’t too worried about what’s legal or illegal, when it comes to their own behavior. Or scaring voters with gang threat fears, when National did nothing to stem the flow of 501’s in its 9 years of govt, that required the incoming Labour, to get Australia to see sense on.
        And National will once again push fossil fuels, while plundering funding for emissions mitigation, and stopping the clean car discount, in the face of record temperatures, and severe weather events hitting multiple locations in the northern hemisphere in just the last couple of weeks – even school children know the folly of this one. Following Luxon, will be like getting into a time machine back to 2017. And it’s no surprise that Luxon, the person who had a hand in helping the Saudi military’s war crimes, has leadership qualities most aligned with Helen Clark than any other leader, so if Labour didn’t do much, then prepare for Labour-Lite to actually go backwards so fast, you’ll be getting whiplash.

        • I suppose it would be a stretch to think you would link our inflation to the $7 pay rise pushed through by Labour. If the bottom layer gets $7 then those above are entitled to expect a rise none of which is related to increase in productivity.

          • Yes it would be a stretch. Petrol the input for everthing now over $3.00 is the inflation driver. Also cranked up interest rates drive up rents.

            • Yes. And going higher. $3.50 very soon from all accounts. Cost of living? Well, the good times are over except for those on good incomes – and they’ll be paying more for their air travel. Muddle NZ will just need to suck it up and cut costs. Put those flat whites on hold. Those on the bread line, well, not looking good. Dont think gst off veges going to make much difference in the big picture. But the thought is there.

  2. They need intelligent perceptive males chairing those debates like they used to have formerly, but the ones who haven’t absconded offshore, may still be hiding from Marama the man hater.

    • We certainly do and more welfare won’t help.

      We have 350,000 people able to do some work who steadfastly refuse to do so.

      Ask any GP about intmidation around “sickness” benefits.

      People need to work for their self esteem, for their families and to improve the lives of those around them but it starts with education which labour has stuffed so completely it will take a generation to resolve.

      • Yeah! We gotta whip ’em harder.
        Or starve them all into accepting ever decreasing subsistence wages.

        Capitalism demands that the eternal growth of CEO wealth yield to nothing.

          • Anyone who pays a fee to get a job here rather than being invited on merit should be outski on the next plane. Anyone selling jobs should be imprisoned.

            Cann all the immigration consultants. If people can’t make their way through the official bureaucracy are they qualified to function in this society?

            Scrap the Million Dollar Visas, what is our immigration system and culture? A whore?

      • “We have 350,000 people able to do some work who steadfastly refuse to do so.”

        140,000 unemployed patiently waiting for the government or private enterprise to create 100,000 jobs appropriate to their skills with wages high enough to make the job worthwhile.

  3. And has anyone commented on the dominant colour of the TV studio set being BLUE? And with the ‘random’ images of the Beehive popping up behind Luxon?
    And what about the closet dominatrix moderating the debate? Appalling!

    • I thought the moderator spoilt the debate she was like a ref that blows the whistle too much and not let the game flow. If she had done this, we would have seen more fire in the belly of both men. I find our NZ media to be full of shite one minute they say New Zealanders don’t like too much negativity and personal attacks the nek minute they say they want more of the above. Luxon has already come out and retracted some of the things he said, he also got away with making shit up. And making shit up has become commonly accepted.

    • Ohhh FFS…really, it’s all a conspiracy Mr Judge?
      Is it the lizard men controlling it all?
      What about the adverts played during breaks, were they subliminal messages also to vote ‘blue’

    • ” And has anyone commented on the dominant colour of the TV studio set being BLUE? And with the ‘random’ images of the Beehive popping up behind Luxon?
      And what about the closet dominatrix moderating the debate? Appalling!”

      On the mark Paul.

      And Luxon got more air time and the compliments from Mc kay who is an avowed National party sympathizer just showed again how biased it all is. We can’t even have a leaders debate that is impartial.

      It was difficult at times to hear the end of the answers they were giving before she continually interrupted and talked over both of them.

      TVNZ could learn a few things from the Tax Union Debates but they are to far up the rights arse to see it.

  4. Woke’s new non privileged society in action. They are really going to town on removing the ‘no criminal record’ society in NZ.

    ‘Brutal violence’: Rebels gang members cause chaos in Coromandel


    Canada suitcase murder: Mother ‘shocked and angry’ that daughter’s killer is in NZ and fighting to stay as refugee

    Albany axe attack: Accused pleads not guilty by reason of insanity

    Yanfei Bao homicide inquiry: Tingjun Cao identified as the man charged with murdering Christchurch real estate agent

    Operation Martinez: Auckland money launderers walk free from court after $123m in cash deposits

    Former Pacific Island Safety and Prevention project head Betty Sio fined for stealing from charity

    NZ woke new society with less ‘privilege’ and a fuck ton of funding from government debts, to support the new lifestyles operating here in NZ. No wonder nobody wants to work anymore!

    Stats NZ defends hosting ‘Check Your Privilege Bingo’ game

    “Other squares in the bingo game include ‘native English speaker’, ‘no criminal record’, ‘first-world’, ‘not a redhead’ and ‘cis’ (having a gender identity that matches the sex you were born with, essentially the opposite of transgender).”

    Keep the privilege out – get the criminals in!

    Shambles of our visa regime: Immigration staff reveal their truth

  5. I thought the moderator spoilt the debate she was like a ref that blows the whistle too much and not let the game flow. If she had done this, we would have seen more fire in the belly of both men. I find our NZ media to be full of shite one minute they say New Zealanders don’t like too much negativity and personal attacks the nek minute they say they want more of the above. Luxon has already come out and retracted some of the things he said, he also got away with making shit up. And making shit up has become commonly accepted.

  6. LUXON: …During my time in opposition, I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe…I’ve seen attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion…I’ve seen c-beams glistening at the Tannhauser gate…
    MODERATOR: Sorry, to cut in Mr Luxon. That’s all well and good, but my question is, would NZ go to the aid of Taiwan, if China invades. I know you just want to stick to your talking points and scripted replies and make virtue signaling sweeping statements without providing any substance, and your whole policy package appears to be as deep as a glossy pamphlet delivered in someones junk mail. But can you please just answer the question sir?
    LUXON: Tax cuts!
    MODERATOR: I think it’s time I summaries the debate. Mr Luxon, you’re trying to sell us a policy package, that has been derided by economists, previously dismissed as unfeasible by your predecessor Mr Key, and has not a single reputable accounting firm prepared to stand behind it, with accurate modeling to show its effectiveness.
    It’s a dud isn’t it Mr Luxon. You’re trying to get the electorate to swallow a dead rat dud.
    Your acting like an el cheapo shonky car dealer from fair go, trying to sell us something that’s all shiny bells and whistles with new paint job, but once you get it, you know you’ve been sold a dud, when it craps out, as soon as you get it out of the box, on the day after the election!
    LUXON: The gangs!

  7. You called it Martyn, what a Borefest of Mediocrity, I thought the Moderator was hopeless & this set the Stage that let Luxon of the Hook & enabled him to dictate the Debate? I was very disappointed in Hipkins, I was expecting Chippy to be in fire & more confrontational & to take it to Luxon like the excellent Jack Tame & Rebecca Wright who set the pattern on how to go after Luxon & get him flustered as that was National’s achilles heel, it’s dopey same old Policies of old & its idiotic current Tax policy that defies economic reality but he was overshadowed by Luxon who had short, sharp replies that got to the point immediately, he interrupted Hipkins constantly, throwing him off his stride & left Hipkins floundering & on the back foot for most of this debate in a waffling display! On this one display alone, I don’t fancy his or Labour’s chances of winning this latest Election & it looks like the abusive cycle will begin again where National win a Election, they spend 2-3 Terms in Govt destroying the Country then Kiwi’s turn to Labour again in desperation & vote them back into Office to repair the damage left by National, then Labour spends 2 x Terms repairing the damage left by the Nats then Kiwi’s lack of muscle memory kicks in & they forget how Labour have gotten NZ back on track or that we had Global disasters like the Pandemic to deal with then they vote National back in & the cycle of abuse begins all over again! NZers are like a abused wife who breaks free from a Abusive Husband called Mr National, gets her life back in order, seeks help from Mr Labour, then forgets how rotten her former Husband was & returns to him to be bashed up again & the cycle of abuse starts all over again! That’s what happens when the National Party gets back in, their Class War & hatred & vitriol & assault against poor people picks off where it left off the last time they were in Govt & the Rich just get Richer, it’s a fucken joke, but so is NZ because we get the Political scumbags we deserve, this Country is doomed, a 3rd World, one trick Economy based on Cows milk & Housing speculation!

    • Ant the problem with that debate is that it wasn’t a debate. It was sound bites at the behest of the so called moderator. Every time Chris Hipkins got going either he or her interrupted. Now I understand the fire in the belly, personally I would have gone over and clobbered Luxon because all he is is a sound bite that thinks he is already the PM. People who are gullible enough to vote for him will soon get a very rude awakening , we are fast headed for a catastrophe of epic proportions, our economy is on a knife edge , it has started to grow again, some foods ( not all ) are noticeably cheaper. All we need now is meddling from the opposition to push us well off track again and people like me can sadly say“I told you so “

    • Because Labour in the last three years hasn’t unveiled and competently implemented a huge policy beneficial to all the people. Some laurel to display at the election. Something like free dental. Unfortunately the timing on that is now probably 2029. It should have been 2022.

  8. Good debate, enjoyed watching that.

    Mr Wilson is tedious as fuck at times, but even he had some good points. Enjoyed watching him getting slapped down as well though.

    • I thought Simon was acting like a rabid activist, rather than commentating on the debate.

      The high light for me was when Fran O’Sullivan finally got to talk after Mr Wilson rabid raves.

      And she talked about the shutting down of certain topics ie cogovernance, by accusing people who disagree it with racist, gender, calling people terfs and the shutting down of the Listener 7. And she called it out as evil. Which it is

      The best part of the election debate? Bomber Bradburys panel discussion afterwards. It beautifully sums up the state of NZ politics

  9. Hipkins had his chance and blew it last night. Luxon was way better than I was hoping he would be and took the win.

    That’s it done now, far fewer people will watch the upcoming debates, as is always the way. You need to nail the first one or you are done.

  10. Chippy ….prioritized substance over glib as was noted by Maiki Sherman

    At his best when he gets a bit mad, looks straight down the camera, and lets the passion flow..

    We saw glimpses..When he revved the engine a couple of times Luxon looked like a lost schoolboy.

    Has alot more in the tank as Tau Henera pointed out.

    Luxon……Glib over substance right throughout

    Blurted out alot of meaningless corporate jargon…’chunking down’…’blocking out ‘…ffs…needs to speak proper english.

    The well rehearsed hand gestures got repetitive ,tiresome and in the end, meaningless

    Tried to get technical on a couple of occasions, but made a hash of it, so resorted to lying..

    Jessica Mutch…stats show she talked over the top of Chippy more often especially when he was making some sound points and at one point told Luxon that ‘she loved his energy’….what was all that about???

    A very peculiar thing for a moderator to say.

    Wasted time on vacuous questions like asking Chippy & Luxon what they admired about each other…yawn… and what books they are reading….like they’ve got time for that.. yawn..

    Yep well…that sums up where we are at really.

    In the end, Chippy won on substance.

    Hoping for more substance in the 2nd round.

  11. Mediocre @ MB. Never has brevity been more succinct!
    Yes, the format was tiresome. That needs to change. A task for the producers. For a start let’s change the physical layout of the set and have the two of them facing off (literally), and the cameras catching that kind of dynamic for the viewers. At the very least the cameras need to capture interaction. What viewers mostly saw last night were framed images of either Luxton or Hipkins talking to the camera, but rarely the two of them eyeballing each other. Capturing reaction (and body language) adds to the dynamic. I’m not a producer but surely the producers these days know a little about semiotics. Without that interaction, captured by the camera for the viewers at home, boring, boring, boring, ad infinitum.
    Yes, the questions asked were predictable. Again a task for producers. Or script writers? Or editors? And, do the leaders need to view the questions before-hand? Effectively, to rehearse their arguments. Is this indeed the practice in the msm TV “debates”?
    Yes, the arguments were weak. Same old more government, less government. There are bigger underlying issues are there not? And, the moderator needs to hold their respective feet to the fire at every opportunity.

  12. Chippy looked tired and he looks like he has aged a few years in a few months, he had a glazed look in his eye, probably thinking, why am I bothering……while Luxon looked surprisingly fresh faced , relaxed and confident, and that doesn’t happen often, but Labour are low hanging fruit this time around. Let’s just put them out of their misery…..they shoot horses don’t they….

  13. Nice to have meet you Bomber. Keep up the great work.

    Thanks for providing a space where you don’t get cancelled if you call out gender ideology!

  14. Talk about lack lustre dreadful really, pat on the back to one another.

    I don’t blame Mutch – she did an okay job, BUT neither of them stick to the questions asked, pathetic.

    Very boring.

    OMG whose idea was it to have Tau Henare – dreadful – well past it.

  15. Why did you expect anything less than a superficial slogan fest?

    That’s been the nature of these television “debates” since the early 1980s.
    Sometimes they might degenerate into a verbal word salad and competitive shouting match but the common factor is that the intellectual policy content is invariably dismal.

  16. For F**ks sake, can we just become part of Australia & become Federated like Tasmania? NZ used to be governed from NSW & it’s still in their Constitution that gives NZ the option of rejoining! I’m sick to death of being ruled over by these f**ken hopeless NZ Politicians, all of them, from all Parties are about as much use as a one legged man at a ass kicking contest! Useless as F**k, all of them, Chippy, Luxon, that weasel David Seymour Butt & the old duffer, in it for himself, Winston Peters, Mr empty suit, I’m done with them all!

  17. She also asked “should transgender be allowed to play sport?”
    Shows her ignorance. No one is saying transgender women shouldn’t play sport. Not just women’s sport (with the odd exception where being male doesn’t give you an advantage)

    • Yep I think womens (and childrens rights) will come around and bite Nats/Lab and the media on the butt.

      NZ women and parents have had enough of the wilful ignorance which is just another way of saying we are too chickenshit to have the debate or worse, let you have the debate.

      See the trans lobby all masked up and causing trouble again today. Not an unmasked one in the bunch – what does it tell you? Just as with Albert Park, it was all arranged beforehand. Good to see the police doing their job today and bless them, the womens rights ladies appeared to be having a pleasant morning in the sun and seemed to be entirely ignoring the Trans violence merchants.

  18. I wasn’t watching that debate I was watching the taxpayers union after debate and the triggered snowflakes when Simon mentioned Seymour dog whistling race-baiting Frans Sullivan and the majority panel wanted to silence his valid opinion went into triggered mode and started yelling down Simons to stop speaking his mind!! I thought she part of the fourth estate that encouraged debating issues???

    • Rubbish Stephen (To paraphrase you when you said that MLK never stood up for free speech incorrect BTW).

      A few people stood up to Simon Wilson for once and asked him if they should be labelled Racist for disagreeing with him on 50/50 Co Governance. He did not want to answer and when he refused to admit that using the term Racist was a great way to avoid debate and that people want debate, he got shouted down.

      I was proud to see it. Because it is the debate in NZ the far left has not allowed us to have and it is essential to have it and resolve differences if we are ever to walk forward in unity as one nation of shared humanity.

      But if you are only interested in winning, keep labelling anyone who disagrees with you as Racists, triggered snowflakes, misogynists whatever. It’s lazy politics and part of the deflect and deplatform mentality so many have today.

    • Stephen it was the other way around.
      Wilson looked deranged, wild eyes and couldn’t shut up or answer the question.

      The rest of the panel were the adults in the room.

      And well done Fran O’Sullivan calling out shutting down of the debate on cogovernance, gender and the Listener 7. Describing this anti democratic attempt to shut opponents down as evil is bang on.

  19. Would rather clean the oven than watch this crappola, (heh, little joke there, self cleaning oven…) but hey, the Natzos want to keep quiet about them enabling the man to stick it to you, and NZ Labour want to fly under the radar on their inability to stick it to the man…what the…

    It is shaping up as a real lottery election this one…unless the filthy sheep shagging Natzos consistently hit 40% it is open for all money still.

  20. Martyn, ever since you got into election mode, I have had little in common with you but in this you nailed it.

    The debate showed how little difference there was between them. Race was the only area I could see where there is a difference but to be fair, I turned it off about 2/3rds the way through.

  21. Can’t stand that women’s schreeching voice, she just loves the sound of her own voice. Hopefully TV One can find someone better for the next debate, someone with some professional skills to be the moderator.

  22. I suppose it would be a stretch to think you would link our inflation to the $7 pay rise pushed through by Labour. If the bottom layer gets $7 then those above are entitled to expect a rise none of which is related to increase in productivity.

  23. Re your post debate rark-up — that’s what I prefer about you Martyn to Trotter, ‘formerly Left-leaning journalist’ according to a mention in Wikipedia’s Free Speech Union entry, you can talk the good shit as well as write it.

  24. Would have been better if they stuck to one or two topics in more detail.

    I hate the fact that neither had anything to buy into for NZ.

    Closest was Chris Luxon’s passion for NZ I’d have to say – but that is not something for me to buy in to.

    Give us details on a subject – kiwi’s can listen to them & understand TV One.


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