National’s climate moo-turn: Agricultural emissions pricing delayed to 2030
National is kicking agricultural emissions pricing to next decade, saying the sector will stay out of the Emissions Trading Scheme and only face an emissions price by 2030.
Farmers will begin paying emissions prices in 2025 under the current Government’s proposals. The Government is still ironing out the scheme for how this will happen, but has not shifted from the 2025 date.
National’s scheme would measure emissions at the farm level from 2025, but farmers would only begin paying an emissions price in 2030.
Jesus wept.
Here is the data…
…and National’s response to that data is to leave the agricultural sector, their political mates, out of paying for their pollution until 2030!
This is not a serious climate change policy, this is pure capitulation to Corporate Farmers.
National, ACT and Federated Farmers have always been climate deniers, they refuse to believe the party is over and they still want a never ending gravy train of monopolies and never ending love from National.
What we need to be considering is an ongoing active direct subsidy to NZ Farmers to buy food for Kiwis and keep the cost permanently lowered.
We have food security problems in NZ and 0 subsidies to help ensure domestic food security. The only focus is feeding those 40million overseas mouths, not feeding our own.
National are betraying the country and dooming us so that their Farming mates are safe.
This is worse than climate denial, this is climate avoidance.
National and ACT are setting us on a pathways of conflict that will start wave after wave of civil disobedience as Kiwi turns on Kiwi in an endless cycle of recrimination.
Oh, and for those still claiming agriculture isn’t the problem, check the facts…
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Just slap an ETS equivalent levy on the meat and dairy processors and collect methane tax that way.
I suspect a huge part of this is the farming lobby wanting individual farms to pay accurate levies for methane production ‘to reward good farmers’.
but there are a lot of farmers and the measurement and hence farm specific levies are very difficult.
The carbon cost will go straight to consumers. Do you want food prices to increase hugely to save the world from AGW?
The alternative is that NZ farmers go broke, and higher emitting farmers in other countries increase production, with worse global outcomes. But we would get to virtue signal (while scrambling to import higher emissions food to stay alive).
Of course, the carbon cost will go straight to consumers – that is no surprise.
What is the alternative – no methane reduction and a wave of non-tariff trade barriers?
It could be useful to read what is stated in the Paris accord.
“Decrease emissions without harming food security.”
Ben’s view has merit.
There is no need to start taxing the food industry or primary production. The basket case economy is already totally dependent on such exports.
The government should be covering all costs for new infrastructure or equipment. It must be developed to prevent falling yields, and only be implemented when all large polluter nations cut their air pollution by the promised 45%.
Ben, do you want a world?
You won’t have farmers if we have no world. Or do you just want a world for here and now and future generations can live with the mistakes we make?
Ronald have you ever been outside?
Was on a farm once and saw so much bullshit I could see you coming Keepcalmcarryon.
Ronald, if we have inadequate food we will create riots and ultimately wars. The environmental damage will be far higher than from a few cows, after all ruminants have been part of our global ecology for millions of years. I suggest if someone really wanted to stop emissions they would be looking at stopping oil drilling. Unfortunately stopping oil also means no agriculture or food distribution, so starvation. There is no easy answer here. The anti-farming argument is extremely short sighted as those pushing it don’t seem to have asked the obvious next question about what people will eat.
“do you want a world?” is essentially a meaningless emotive hyperbole. So I’ll ask you in return; “Do you want everyone to starve by getting rid of food production?”. If we all starve by getting rid of food production, there will be no future generations either. Or perhaps you are a Malthusian and envision a future whereby the select few can continue and ‘useless eaters’ are culled? The funny thing about people pushing for a lower global population is how rarely they line themselves and their own families up for extermination for the greater good.
We have been living and managing the mistakes of past generations.
The average human on earth has never had it this good and history suggests that our wealth and wellbeing will pale in comparison to future generations.
Watch us go once we have completed the green transformation.
All this rubbish of ‘all or nothing’ is nonsense. It’s either broke farmers or f’ked environment, and nothing in between.
Who are all these countries that produce,with “higher emitting farmers”, doing nothing? These discussions are not unique to NZ.
Over 50% of crops are fed to animals so we can eat animal products the obvious answer is to grow crops for us to eat instead, it would save on health care as well. Getting nutrition from animal products is as silly as driving from Christchurch to Timaru so you can catch a free bus from Timaru to Ashburton. I am not expecting much enthusiasm for the idea from a large part of the population so I don’t imagine any sudden changes taking place & those willing to pay the price (or produce their own) will still be able to access animal products.
It should be remembered, and can be proven, that farmers have been used as a means to create urban multi-billionaires, multi millionaires and profit four foreign owned banks while the remaining non-farming population of AO/NZ goes blindly about their pointless business while eating in the front then shitting out the back.
It’s interesting, if not a little depressing, to note that while farmers pollute at the insistence of an urban population demanding a first world economy to live well within Auckland there are huge trucks spewing out diesel fumes while shipping does so equally while thousands of urban ‘workers’ pollute themselves to their aforementioned pointless existences from a monetary point of view to spend their borrowed money on junk and pap. And Range Rovers. And huge pleasure boats. And ten other ‘investment’ properties. And Cynthia and Nigel’s private school educations. And the botox for Stella.
The National party are nothing more than abusive criminals who dangle farmers over fiscal cliff edges to line their pockets with they money they force from their pockets. I’d go so far as to say the National Party and their MMP hangers-on parties are more closely aligned to the Mafia than anything else.
Here’s what you, as a media outlet can do. Support and encourage our farmers, not take cheap pot shots at the defenceless who not only put food on your table but money in your pockets.
I’m not exaggerating when I write that there’s a criminal elite out there and they and their families go back generations. It’s in there that focus must be drawn.
What Martyn Bradbury is doing is beating up the milkman because a cow shits in a paddock.
Latte’s all round though, right?
Clearly, there’s no change in sight. There’s nothing original in terms of thinking coming from the media, including here. We’ll lumber along until AO/NZ becomes someone else’s.
Alister Barry
https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/someone-elses-country-1996. That’s 27 years ago. Roger the Parasite popped out of Labour in 1984. That’s 39 years ago.
Then, as it is today, agriculture was our primary industry. What’s different is that our farmlands have been thrashed to a point of exhaustion by banksters at the behest of urban greed.
Someone Else’s Country looks critically at the radical economic changes implemented by the 1984 Labour Government — where privatisation of state assets was part of a wider agenda that sought to remake New Zealand as a model free-market state. The trickle-down ‘Rogernomics’ rhetoric warned of no gain without pain, and here the theory is counterpointed by the social effects (redundant workers, Post Office closures). Made by Alister Barry in 1996 when the effects were raw, the film draws extensively on archive footage and interviews with key “witnesses to history”.Someone Else’s Country looks critically at the radical economic changes implemented by the 1984 Labour Government — where privatisation of state assets was part of a wider agenda that sought to remake New Zealand as a model free-market state. The trickle-down ‘Rogernomics’ rhetoric warned of no gain without pain, and here the theory is counterpointed by the social effects (redundant workers, Post Office closures). Made by Alister Barry in 1996 when the effects were raw, the film draws extensively on archive footage and interviews with key “witnesses to history”.
Good heavens the uncensored unwinds again.
Bob the troll is back.
And so a film made in 1996, six years into the tenure of the Bolger/Whatshername, is supposed to be an accurate measure of what the Government of 1964-1990 did?
Have you forgotten Ruth Richardsons “mother of all budgets”?, or Bill Birch and his “think big” clusterfuck, followed by his utterly destructive “Employment contracts act” in 1991?
NZers by then were right in the depths of the enforced poverty which was their “contribution” to the improving profitability of the National parties sponsors… Weren’t we lucky, and privileged to be able to make life for our “betters” so much more rewarding, and all it cost us was our security in employment, our ability to feed ourselves food that didn’t poison us, provide our children with the facilities that they need to make their way in the world with the best tools at their disposal.. Oh, and let us never forget, the thousands of unskilled/semi skilled “workers” brought in from south east asia that built what is the biggest collection of “ticky tacky houses” in Whitford, Flat bush, howick, Botany, East Tamaki etc that I’ve ever seen outside the slum districts I’ve visited on my travels..
Are you seriously suggesting that the six years of National party governance, with the immediate, and rapidly compounding effects of what was a two pronged attack on the working people on NZ, and those trapped on benefits as a result of the unemployment created as a result of deliberate government policy to keep unemployment high enough to remove any real bargaining power to the now “individual people” rather than a representative body that has the resources to engage the employer on an equal level..
The party won narrowly in 1996 on the back of a small recovery in the economy, and then promptly after the election, set about to bring the unemployment numbers back up to their “target range”…. This is what those criminals did, and it’s all there in the records regardless of whether you can accept that or not, and whether you can or not is irrelevant to me, so don’t waste my time with more reactionary stupidity…
Any more than two words has Bob fucked Stefan.
Brevity the soul of wit.
Look guys. Agriculture has always been closely linked with New Zealand I agree but that’s not why we can’t do carbon credits on mass it’s because the U.S. dollar is still the global reserve currency. It’s very easy to anticipate America losing reserve currency status by learning how they got reserve currency status in the first place.
I don’t want to go off on a tangent but it’s guns. You ask who is the global reserve currency and if they don’t say America they get there heads blown off. That’s it. It’s just a placeholder for military force.
There will never be an exchange that doesn’t have the military might to force the issue.
To be fair to Luxon, he’s all out attack on ACT to get the farmers vote back. If he can secure the farmers vote, then Seymour has no choice to sit on the cross benches. Seymour did promise to do that if National didn’t implement ACT policies didn’t he?
Storm in a tea cup article.
National are completely full of it. Labour rather meekly try to do something (probably inadequate) and it’s “killing farming” . Even though they haven’t paid anything.Apparently waiting five years will make it all better. Like everything else National are try to kick it down the road
Then they say genetically modified seeds are the answer, but they will heavily regulate it. The party that says we are over regulated will regulate it? Hmm.
But hey we feed less than half of one percent of the world’s population. I am sure that number is probably bollocks too.
Meanwhile the current Labour government has been using taxpayer money to fund dairy conversions overseas:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/132261664/governments-climate-donations-set-up-dairy-farming-overseas
“ New Zealand pledged to spend $375 million reducing greenhouse emissions and protecting communities in vulnerable countries.
But according to official documents reviewed by Stuff, some of that cash promoted planet-heating dairy and meat farming.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade funded projects to establish dairy farming in Fiji and Myanmar. Between 2015 and 2020, it also funded work to intensify meat or milk production in Laos, Sri Lanka and Uruguay.”
This while enacting climate legislation in NZ to knowingly cut cow numbers and put 20% of our own sheep and beef farmers out of business.
As usual this Labour coalition is incapable of initiating any sensible policy on anything imo. If you are going to levy (tax)farmers on emissions you better get the formula right and farmers clearly don’t believe that formula is accurate. Labour and greens philosophy is less farms, which is being accomplished by covering NZ in pine. The damage to productive land and communities is horrendous. Fuck this government and their moron ideas. National is not trying to avoid the issue but want to get it right. Good on them. The big polluters India, China,US and parts of Europe are burning the planet not NZ. What we are doing is virtue signalling how important we are in leading the way. Let’s get this right and fair and if it takes a few more years so be it.
Careful – you’ll get a slap on the face for talking like that….
Bullshit. Certain farming groups believe the formula is not right because it doesn’t equate to zero. Labours mistake Is working with some of these groups in good faith.
Wheel Some radicals in those farming groups may want zero emission levy but the majority of farmers just want a fair deal. so I would say your comment is BS.
Really? So why wait five years as Luxon of Nazareth is claiming? Who is killing farmers?
Wheel. I don’t know whether you’ve noticed but labour have given themselves until 2025 to price agriculture emissions.
And? I already said Labour were inadequate. Or do mean 2025 is too soon?
GPW*
Look up GWP*, the metrics used changes the results dramatically.
The simple fact is Labours proposition is a “one size fits all” plan.
Farmers have pointed out that this unduly penalises sheep farms in particular.
Government is quite happy to force all farms to have a “fresh water plan” to improve water quality, but is unwilling to see this plan extended to include individual farm carbon sequestation measures.
Why? Because those plans will show that many farms, sheep in particular are net sequesters, not emmiters.
Thus carbon funds due TO them NOT from them.
The funding equation for the Government then fails and thats the rub.
OK let’s assume there is a ‘climate crisis’.
So, what’s your plan…?
Andrew. Let’s be clear if we got rid of all our livestock our overall emissions might halve to 0.087%of global emissions. So on a physical level it’s virtually meaningless. Let National implement their policy which will be fair. Let us stop buying coal from Indonesia, let’s try and get plastic out of the building industry and everything else. Let’s stop shiting in the sea Let’s close land fills by our rivers. Let’s hurry along more hydroelectric power and wind farms and so on. That would be my agenda.
Not even 0.087% because the latest research by Ag Research shows that the original estimate (that the current legislation is based on) was too high. No surprise because it was always a bit of a WAG (Wild Ass Guess). So, the science is far from “settled” LOL
https://www.agscience.org.nz/nz-livestock-responsible-for-less-emissions-than-previously-thought/
One good point in National’s policy is that farmers will be able to claim back the for the carbon they’ve fixed by planting trees. Most now have planted bush blocks in gullies and riparian strips. They should get credit for that.
Luxon is also correct when he says we have to at least *appear* to be playing the carbon reduction game if we’re not to be ostracized by our trading partners. (The elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about is that Carbon Zero 2050 is unachievable with current technology.)
I’m with you on your main point though: We need more power. A LOT more power, if we’re to meet electrification targets. Wind and solar are really little more than sad jokes, so the only truly viable options are hydro and nuclear. Best of luck getting a new hydro dam past the Treaty grifters and kiwis are too scientifically illiterate to accept nuclear, so I don’t know what the way forward is. At this point we’re ahead of the game thanks to Think Big dams, but we mustn’t sit on our hands.
Why is it that people with no qualifications in science are experts in climate change?
Good question Bob…let’s hear what your qualifications are
I think it involves destroying national food production and the economy all at once.
Really KCCO? Ben Waimata has pointed out that farmers want to pay so your comment might be off the mark. How are the folks at groinswell?
Couldn’t we just buy forests in Ukraine as carbon credits to offset our emissions? Oh, wait…
Its taken us this long to include farmers in paying an ETS charge they bloody well should have been paying from the start like the rest of us.
We gave them 15 years to reduce emissions and instead they have done nothing but go up, enough excuses lets just get on with it.
Cool. My farm is carbon positive, put my business into the ETS and you will be paying me to farm via increased costs on everything you buy, which will go to my bank account. Thanks Mark.
And btw, farmers have been paying ETS costs on every item we purchase in exactly the same way as all other NZers. What has not been done is additional costs added to us, in exactly the same way city people have not been charged additional emission costs for your every day activities.
Same here, according to the Govts own calculator we are currently on track sequester 126t of carbon this calendar year. In reality it’ll be well over that as the NZ Govt only counts specific trees and then only when planted in a certain volume and in specific shapes so we have close to 30 acres of Manuku the Govt doesn’t recognise. Also it’s calculator that intentionally over states the bad.
Oh look, more graphs! Oh…same graphs…
In other news China and India don’t give a fuck while NZ tortures herself to death over her minuscule carbon emissions
Cry harder.
What have the left done other than import record amounts of dirty Indonesian coal?
Oh look, the same stupid comment on graphs…
bwoy, I said bwoy we’s gotta get them thar rednecks votin fur uz
Martyn
Please stop your ott faux outrage Olympics. At least until you can explain this..
https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/132261664/governments-climate-donations-set-up-dairy-farming-overseas
From 2015, John Key and Nationals years.
This is good thinking from National! It gives the big world polluters, the real planet killers, seven years to show us they are serious. Because if they are not, then there’s no point in us committing economic suicide when we are 0.00000000000000001% of the problem. Fuck that.
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