Chippy’s inability to answer the question, ‘What is a woman’, is a culture war trigger question as politicians desperately try to answer a simple question without offending the militant Trans Rights allies…
…the true friction point in the trans debate will not be men pretending to be women to cause sexual assault – (although I’m sure that might happen because human beings who want to hurt others manage to find loop holes), but I think ultimately the debate is functionally about biological women sharing personal space with a biological male who has transitioned into being a female.
The Self ID regulations come into effect in June, meaning that a vast number of people will be able to change their gender with far more ease than they can now and that in turn will see biological women starting to share gyms, swimming pool changing rooms and even jail cells with Transwomen.
This isn’t the same issue for men, because most Transmen will be physically smaller than biological men so the physical intimidation isn’t there for biological males, but many biological women might feel very differently when they are confronted by it in their spaces.
Look, ultimately we want everyone regardless of gender identity to enjoy the same agency every citizen has in a liberal progressive democracy, because that’s the promise of liberal progressive democracy. But because the debate is controlled by cancel culture and censorship, there hasn’t been a debate between biological women and the Trans community on how to share that space respectfully.
Posie Parker is a manifestation of what happens when you deplatform debate and there is a cost to that. It’s one thing to change your Twitter profile to the Trans Ally Flag and quite another being exposed to a penis when you are a women changing in the gym.
When that starts happening, there could be an enormous backlash as biological women suddenly understand what they are being asked to give up.
This debate requires good faith decency and understanding, sadly all we have are two sides justifying violence against the other.
We need far less anger and hostility in this debate and far more focus on solutions.
We all have to share this space respectfully with one another, that’s the point of living in a civilised society.
The drive by some on the Left to draw energy from mob violence and promote more of it is is a fucking stupid idea because the Right have seen the rules have changed and an actual physical fight is what the protests now offer.
We really really really don’t want to justify political violence.
We really, really, really don’t want to be doing that.
Our preference should be dialogue.
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We need far less anger and hostility in this debate and far more focus on solutions.
We all have to share this space respectfully with one another, that’s the point of living in a civilised society.
___________________
Build more rainbow faction toilets, changing rooms and prison cells…
Create safer 3rd spaces for they/them!!!
Problem solved.Nothing to see here. Moving right along…
So you have moved your position from let’s all share, to creating new spaces in one comment.
At least you are rational enough to convince yourself in one post.
Well done.
You are right that we should share the public square and respect the opinions of others. Drowning views that you do not agree with out will get us where very few of us want to be.
The bit above the line is quoted from Bomber’s post.
The bit below is my solution.
My point being, why waste time debating and philosophizing about solutions when the solution itself is soooo simple.
It’s fairly indicative of a lot of on line discourse. People would rather rant about the problem and blame previous governments, ideological opposites blah blah blah, than offer simple practical solutions.
And one wonders why children seem incapable of critical analysis ?
Correct.
When parliament does not show respect to voters, by passing legislation under urgency or sham consultative processes, they will always do more harm than good.
Good intentions do not create good outcomes.
I’m not entirely happy with self-identified transgendered women being used to fill required quotas on decision-making boards, or in businesses, and government departments and organisations.
This has the practical effect of excluding biological women from these positions, and therefore it can be seen as discriminatory, and as defeating both the purpose and hypothetical reasons for wanting women’s input, skills and wisdom.
Diversity quotas already stop the best person necessarily getting the jobs, but when the person herself differs in various practical and existential ways from the reasons for which they were included, biological women’s voices are again being silenced. These are the sort of discussions we should be having instead of adult human females being shouted down and censored and bullied for trying to speak.
Yes Snow.
Identity politics means that if you are a part of a majority you will lose some or all of your agency. Trans women (about 1/2 of 1%?) win over biological women (52%), ethnic peoples win over the majority race, ‘indigenous’ people win over other minority ethnicities, some religions win over other religions etc etc and if we run out of minorities we can always create more – dare I say, Cat Gender?
It makes no sense on every level especially when you consider productivity and cost effectiveness. What the world needs is definite but broad brush solutions to issues of inequity built firmly on the foundation of unity and aspiration.
Yvonne van Dongen said that Identity Politics exists on valorising victims and if we live in a society where everyone is a victim and victims are special what does it do to us as a society?
A population where we trip over ourselves to prove, display or even invite victimhood as a way of establishing where we are in the pecking order. I’d even go so far as to say that this is what the trans lobby is doing to itself. It won many of it’s battles but had to go further and further with the rhetoric of ‘Victims are heroes’ (Basically Eli Rubashkyn’s narrative) and because of it they end up alienating more people and thus reinforce their victim status.
It’s absolutely nuts and it is so much more than just individual tribes fighting for their rights, it is quite literally a world that is drowning in chaos staring down the barrel of some very major existential crises. When are these self involved myopic idiots going to pull their heads out and see what is coming?
Fantail. Briefly, if we go back to where this seems to have originated, with the uber rich plastic surgeons and other cavalier medical practitioners,and unscrupulous powerful pharmaceutical companies in the USA, then many transgendered people are in fact victims, and very tragic victims when one listens to the heartbreaking narratives from some of the de-transitioned – or the would be’s.
The genderID agenda being embedded in the New Zealand school system should have legal provisions to allow young folk here to sue the politicians who’ve pushed all this, if their lives become worsened or unstuck, but the pollies will be vamoosed. And the Educ Dept are the incompetents replacing the Commissioner for Children.
100%. It’s a relentless race to the bottom to prove victimhood, and in the process divide society and shift the focus from solving real problems to imagined one.
Why choose to be a victim, when there are already so many that will force that role on you, given half a chance. Be strong, be powerful, lead not follow, be unstoppable, create your own destiny and be master of it, don’t let others define who you are, be yourself.
Of course if you want to be a loser, a victim, pathetic and worthless, then I guess that is your choice and you will get to live that role.
Great point Snow.
Regarding your quote, ‘We need far less anger and hostility in this debate and far more focus on solutions.”
Well said Martyn.
Absolutely I agree wholeheartedly.
The truth is the truth.
Saying that humans have two legs is true.
Just because someone has one leg doesn’t mean they are not human. They could have gotten cancer. Lost it in a car accident. The point is when we see a human with one leg we know something is wrong.
Same for woman.
If a woman for whatever reason can’t give birth then she can go and get a diagnosis and find out why. Might not get cured but we would know what’s wrong.
But if a biological man said that he couldn’t give birth no doctor on earth is going to find out why because we know that men can not give birth.
If we see a woman with a penis……
We can support trans and women’s rights all at the same time.
A miscarriage is not in the back of a train.
Yknow if a biological man calls an for an ambulance and says I’m having a miscarriage, we can empathize with his situation but there is nothing in science that can be done about it.
no, if you see a Trans women with a penis. They are still not a women, even though they desperately wish it so and will gaslight everyone else who disagrees.
Still don’t think that being trans is a delusion. So if I fuck a tranny, I know 100% I’d be fucking a biological male and not some delusional female.
That is not what the law that comes into force in June says!
I am leaning towards your view. But many argue that if one chooses to be a trans person that that would be your right.
One can support trans and women’s right all at the same time. But the new law is a dog and will harm those that it endeavours to protect.
Irrespective of what colours win the treasury benches in future this law will be amended.
If I was to see a woman with a penis,
I’d RUN!
Least I want have to ask for a behind BJ
The fact of the matter is 99% of the anti trans dialogue is being driven by the religious right who don’t even accept homosexuality let alone the multiple biological sexual gender identities there are.
On top of that you have the extreme conservatives and the far right using it for political purposes.
As was stated by someone else on a Facebook trans and most women use the cubicles not open spaces in changing rooms and public toilets. women’s toilets etc do not have urinals etc.
So a lot of the discussion is driven by men stirring up shit.
The let women speak types will never accept trans women full stop.
Geoff In some unisex toilets, some men exit the cubicles into the shared toiletry spaces still zipping themselves up or front fumbling. It’s a bit crude to see. Many males don’t wash their hands and that’s rather off putting also.
Holly hock that’s a huge generalization, I have seen many women not wash their hands. I have never knowingly seen a transgender person zipping up their fly after the toilet. You are talking about a unisex toilet there is a simple answer don’t use one.
Queenie. Women using lavatories, even just for peeing, usually dab or wipe themselves with something else when they finish, ergo their hands do not usually make direct contact with their anatomy or it’s products.
Persons peeing via penises do make direct contact, holding penises, and putting them away again, so their hands may be less clean than those of biological women.
Little girls are taught to wash their hands, and generally in the workplace and elsewhere femmes do, but you’ve obviously had different experiences.
Little boys used to shake urine droplets off their penises, but I haven’t a clue whether they continue that practice as they continue on their journey through through life and I don’t generally watch them during their ablutions.
All genders using shared spaces should wash their hands, even if only because of the other possibly germy surfaces which they touch in the process.
Agree with you about not using unisex toilets if poss.Happy Easter.
Indeed.
Let women speak.
Couldnt agree with you less Geoff. Most women who are in it are apolitical or not obviously one side or another (Although yes there is a cadre of leftie lesbians).
I have seen no religious allusions although I know that there is a fundamental disconnect between Muslim woman’s rights and men in changing rooms.
Mostly it is Mums and Grandmothers and their overwhelming desire is not so much women’s rights but their desire to keep their children safe (puberty blockers) and daughters safe and motivated (men in women’s sport and girls safety in toilets in particular).
I fully support peoples right to express themselves and have absolutely zero prejudice towards the rainbow community but you come between me and my children’s safety and I wont fail to stand up. That is why it is becoming such a big issue.
so fantail pansy potter and her acolytes are lefty lesbians?
Fantail. On a London bus, a timid Muslim woman passed me money and asked me to pay the ambulatory conductor for her, clearly reluctant to make that contact. He took it as a personal insult and berated both of us.
it does have to be said if you come to a new country you have to adapt..and try not to bring your superstitions with you…I’m finally resigned to the fact there is no decent black pudding in NZ
Gagarin Pretty sure there’s a sausage making butchery in Wellington that produces it’s own black puddings but don’t tell anybody. They’re another colonialist import and ergo a symbol of oppression, and pigs’ blood is culturally offensive to the Muslim and Jewish communities and one wouldn’t want to stir up more ethnic friction. Can’t get haggis either, but it’s quite easy to make, nor pork pies, also religiously offensive and harder to make, not that I’ve tried.
Where is the evidence that women wanting to speak on this issue are ‘anti-trans’? We want to speak about rights and provisions for women and girls.
To many of us it looks like transactivists are anti-women and many of us who are LGB see gender ID ideology as being homophobic. Plenty of LGB people do not agree with gender ID ideology: ie these ideologues say the lesbian and gay means being same-gender attracted and not same-sex attracted.
Where is your evidence that we are being driven by the religious right?
100%!!!
Karolyn-IS. “ being driven by the religious right”? Police passively observing the extremist intimidation of women at Albert Park were more than just men behaving badly, they were men seemingly acting under orders to permit the obstruction of women wanting to speak.
Coincidentally, the Police Commissioner seems to be a committed Christian member of a religious group. Coincidentally, the religious shutting up women begins with the apostle Paul commanding women be silent, in direct opposition to the inclusive message of his dead leader, Jesus the Galilean; western Christianity’s historical oppression of women is well documented.
The loud vilification of pro-women activists by politicians and complicit MSM prior to Albert Park was another pernicious weapon in the armoury
of those who are opposed to freedom of speech. It shouldn’t have happened, and it didn’t have to be this way.
Where do you get your “facts from Geoff? How is it relevant to this debate
He must be right.
He read it on Facebook.
Someone else was offering YouTube as a source of the “true facts” our media wouldn’t report. Violence, snort!
Group rights are cool as long as our individual liberty is protected. The smallest group is the individual.
“The let women speak types will never accept trans women full stop.” yes your right but the Trans Cult will never accept trans woman aren’t full female either. Its hell of a stalemate.
I suspect you are correct that a lot of the anti-Trans dialogue is coming from the religious right.
I also suspect the religious right are most often the ones willing to take the abuse and hatred they get back from the Trans Rights Activists, and they – the RR – have a community that supports them when they do voice their opposition to TRAs.
Religious right is code for…
The toxic culture of the WCM (White Cis Male.)
You may well be astounded to find that most of those who are religious are supportive of humans and human rights. Religious leaders may well be split on how best to support trans people.
80% of transhumans who mutilate Thier own bodies are homosexual. How the homo community and tranny community are going to be buddies long term is just fucked up.
source for that figure please sam…..
The fact of the matter? Just where did you get that “fact” from, Geoff?
Any evidence that Posie Parker, J.K. Rowling, Douglas Murray, Ani O’Brien, Rachel Stewart or Sean Plunkett belong to the religious right? As for their supposed homophobia, you do realize some of those people I’ve listed are gay or lesbian, right?
The religious right is inconsequential in NZ, but that doesn’t stop ardent progs and Marxists from scaremongering about “God botherers”.
Spot on Pope.
Depends on the view.
I try not to deal in absolutes, and I don’t think “respect absolutely everyone’s views” is any more tenable than “disrespect the views of anyone that slightly conflicts with you.”
It’s like if someone says something that’s kind of racist, I might say: “Hello, I expect you mean well but you might want to educate yourself about some things…”
Whereas if someone says something that’s disgustingly racist, I’m more like: “You’re a piece of shit, GTFO.”
Stated views come in all shapes and sizes, and I don’t think it’s wrong for my responses to those views to vary accordingly.
I am a conservative religious person & I fully accept that people feel that they are born with whatever gender/lifestyle preference they claim but the only evidence available tells us that it is all in the mind. There is nothing biological, chemical, or inherited that can tell us what a person’s preference will be. If you could do an autopsy ( I am not suggesting that we kill any people to find out) & say that the person was Gay using scientific methods then I would be convinced that they were born that way but for now, the only explanation I can agree with is that some sort of choice is involved. Because I serve a loving God I treat all the people I meet with respect even though I might not agree with their lifestyle.
I think this sums it up well:
“transgender people should have the exact same rights as everyone else. What they demand – and which I believe we should refuse to give them – are extra rights…
Transwomen absolutely have the right to participate in sports. Their wish to be granted the additional right to be included in the women’s category is, however, unreasonable, unfair, and – in the case of contact sports – dangerous. We don’t confer that right on any other males, and nor should we. The same goes for example incarceration in women’s prisons, access to women’s bathrooms and changing rooms, rape crisis centres, and so on. Equal provision, not shared provision.”
If a man wishes to see himself as a woman, that’s up to him to decide. If he wishes the rest of us to see himself as one, well, that’s our decision.
This is what Posie thought it would be like as she walked into the crowd…
https://i0.wp.com/writesomeshit.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/daenerys-targaryen-573406.jpg?resize=381%2C238&ssl=1
That seems to be happening with her at the moment.
Being silenced caused her message to be heard loud and clear.
Strange how free speech works!
Which is probably why she did it, it’s great to be a martyr for your cause, especially if you were unharmed by the “violence” of your martyrdom. Most martyrs aren’t so lucky.
I do not wish to diminish martyrdom, but, most martyrs are misguided and lead to the slaughter for the cause of others who have exploited their gullibility.
Correct, and how did those who followed in Keen-Minshull’s wake fare? And what would be the outcome of her rhetoric be if she was not shouted down?
Keen is no Martyr. She is a warrior with a cause. Like it or not.
Her words only harm those who choose victimhood.
Trans and women’s rights can be supported at the same time.
She is merely a tool, and will be used as weapon to harm those, her wielders hate.
One can support trans and women’s rights as well as religious rights all at the same time.
A good read on gender identities;https://www.psycom.net/gender-identity?
Thanks for sharing.
Ah, no. That link brings in Intersex, which is a red herring. It has nothing to do with sex self ID. The preferred term these days is DSD (Difference in Sex Development). And most of the conditions under that umbrella are for people who are either male or female.
The gender ID ideologues keep using Intersex to justify their ideology and especially gender/sex self ID, even though many people with DSD conditions complained that they are being misrepresented, and have asked transactivists to stop doing it.
Of course, among males, and among females there is a great deal of diversity in physical capabilities, personal interests and ways of presenting ourselves.
The sex of each human is can be verified medically and scientifically, and are far more stable and objective categories than an individual’s self IDed gender.
Basically, the sex of humans is a whole system thing: either an individual has the anatomy built around a male or a female reproductive system. The purpose of that system in all mammals, is to produce small gametes (sperm in human males) or large gametes (eggs in human females) when fertile.
The graphs on this website shows how atypical sex chromosomes (DSD conditions) result in a male or female reproductive system, although some will not be fertile.
https://www.theparadoxinstitute.com/read/sex-development-charts
Below the charts, the terms in the charts and the development of male and female humans is explained.
Gender ID ideology is basically dependent on sex-based stereotypes: eg if a boy likes dolls and pretty things, or a girls likes playing with trucks and enjoys rough and tumble play, or child likes a mixture of both sorts of activities, some people these days can start to question if they are trans.
Gender critical feminists are sex realists in that we say humans are a sex dimorphic species (sex is binary and immutable). This results in some physical differences between males and females that are crucial in some areas of life: eg health, most post-puberty sports, in connection with violence against women by men, intimate care and spaces, etc. However, we are against sex-based stereotyping when it comes to life opportunities (re-income, most jobs eg lawyers, accountants, business managers, carpentry, motor mechanic), or style of dress, (we’ re fine with men wearing dresses, make-up and high heels), etc.
Really interesting charts – thanks. No X chromosome, no viable fetus was interesting too. I’d forgotten that one.
Read it. I have no problem with this person. Wish them well. But if they get pregnant don’t expect us to change our language eg to birthing person.
Or if they commit a crime, they might want to consider not going into a man’s prison.
Surgery for trans people seems fraught with complications and I am inclined to agree with Kelly Jean, that it should not be available till they are 25 years.
I wish this person well, but the reality is you can’t change sex.
+ 1 Anker
100%. You are born with your sex and will die with the same sex. Mammals are one or the other, nothing in between.
Difference between gender and sex.
I read the same stuff on the census forms and I did not find that particularly interesting either.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/31/woman-trans-man-gender.
Good read : the let women speak types should read.
Your post just shows how much you do not understand what the women are saying.
nope doesn’t say what you seem to think. Good on him for finding his identity! But he’s a trans-man, not a man. Simple.
Trans activists say they want a non-binary world i.e. they are a new category/categories so we have women, men, trans women, trans man. So why then do they insist that the previous 2 categories (man/woman) have to smoosh trans in with them? They aren’t women or men, so don’t tell women and men what to think and what to do. Be your authentic self, which is a new thing.
Are you sure you read the piece?
Most of us celebrate him and wish him well.
If that is his pro-noun of choice.
Agree with this, especially, “This debate requires good faith decency and understanding,”
Where is the evidence for this, “sadly all we have are two sides justifying violence against the other.”
Because, from what I’ve been seeing, the violence at protests is all coming from one side: the transactivist side.
Gender critical women have been having peaceful events. Although, if the anti-feminist, male-dominated right gets on board, then their maybe violence from them. That’s a good reason for the transactvitists and their allies to stop the ‘no-debate’, cancel, censoring approach, and start with good faith dialogue.
Certainly, those of us gender critical feminists, who are firmly on the left, and don’t support Kelly-Jay Keen’s hyperbole and headline grabbing approach want to see happen as soon as.
How much of the “trans fear” is based on reality and how much is just fear inducing hypothetical situations? You are probably significantly less likely to see a penis on a trans-woman in a woman’s changing room, than that charming cis guy you’ve just met in a bar, will slip some rohypnol in your drink. If you are seeing an unwanted penis, it is most likely on a straight, cis-gendered guy. If you are being raped or sexually assaulted, it will most likely be by a straight, cis-gendered guy. If your child is being raped or sexually assaulted, it will most likely be by a straight, cis-gendered guy. So is this moral panic justified or just another anti-trans attack?
Why not just allow women to speak up.
Most men are not rapists. Nearly all rapists are men.
Not the same thing.
Keen-Minshull could have just given her speech, no one stopped her, she chose not to continue. No one would have heard her, but she, herself chose to walk away. She still got her message out via other forums, so no one shut her up. By the way, have you read Tarrant’s manifesto or watched his video? Why not?
After the Me too movement where it was found widespread sexual violence covered up by powerful men, and police rape https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Nicholas, https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-64289461, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Weinstein_sexual_abuse_cases, people hoped things would get better for woman.
They were starting to change, then suddenly the Me Too movement was displaced by a huge, well funded, push for any man to be able to self ID as a woman without a court or doctors recommendation.
It is now ok, to be who you want to be. That might sounds wonderful but statistics and the Me Too show some men’s happy place, is of rape and sexual violence that they get away with.
Allowing any man who feels like it, to now self describe as a woman without sufficient controls on that is putting the woman’s movement back significantly, and making a mockery of violence towards woman and positive discrimination for woman.
If you know anything about rape, it is about control.
Sexual violence and abuse of power that was being addressed by the me too movement, has now been overturned by Men being able to say, Me Too.
It is a fuck you, to sexual assault victims when a man being able to control the narrative by saying he is a woman, too.
As for seeing more penises in woman’s changing rooms from June, is that ok if you have a young daughter changing in public changing rooms and now any self IDing penises are there too?
Being able to freely throw juice, yoghurt and punch old woman in a protest for woman rights, while the woke politicians cheer them on, is not really a positive change for violence against woman.
The opposite.
As someone said above,
If a man wishes to see himself as a woman, that’s up to him to decide. If he wishes the rest of us to see himself as one, well, that’s our decision.
The power control is also shown in statistics, prior to the Me Too movement most transgender were woman change to men, after Me Too the opposite is happening and more men are transitioning to woman.
Being transgender does not stop violence. https://metro.co.uk/2023/03/29/trans-woman-who-stabbed-her-partner-will-serve-time-in-mens-prison-18520930/
The coverup and enabling of violence from the transgender community, is akin the the coverup from Epstein’s victims when police and media helped him keep offending for decades.
Good points SaveNZ
well said SaveNZ.
No, the issue is that ALL man can have access to these places without any changes at all to their appearance and women will get the bash when they say no thanks.
The issue is that male rapists just have to state ‘I am a woman’ and their crime will be rape by ‘her’ penis, and the ‘her penis’ will be locked up in a female jail with females who can not consent.
The issue is that female toilets/changing room will now be mixed sex. All males welcome, and bitches will get the bash if they complain.
The issue is that males will win awards for being ‘female of the year’ and well females will get souped if they say no thanks.
The issue is that males will be telling females how to female. Any non consenting female will be send to re-education.
Take your meds sausage, ffs!
Compulsive obsessive disorder Brat
I find it staggering that the poolice still haven’t arrested anyone over the well documented physical assaults that took place at Posie Parkers event,
I’m no fan of the cops but by allowing this violence to slide they are setting up an even more violent backlash.
No-one wins but the state who perhaps can use the escalating violence as a smoke screen to push through “anti hate” legislation ie more state censorship and control
oh wait…
Well said xxx.
Is it a debate? More like a shouting match between small groups and slightly larger supporter groups with the vast majority looking on in puzzlement.
Any word on the brave lad who punched the elderly lady…At one time this would have been the headline in all the papers and tv news , but it seems to be ho hum now , in this day and age…..It’s hard to believe a politician could have their credibility put on the line by a simple question…what is a woman??….Chippy’s display of confusion at being asked that question, yet alone credibly as a person , was staggering……Mahuta hidden from view, travelling around the world , with one can only guess with a huge entourage in tow ….Willy throwing millions at RNZ while hardly anyone listens to that nonsense anymore…It’s just gets plain more silly by the day….The winner from now to election time is comedy…..lots and lots of comedy….I’m picking it still does not put a smile on a huge amount of the population but you can’t please everyone…..
The video that has been distributed around (and not picked up by our media) is heavily edited. The full version shows the “victim” as the aggressor and while they certainly didn’t deserve the punches they took, that they haven’t press charges probably means that they are not with without sin.
If you punch me, that is assault, however if we then exchange blows (beyond me defending myself), the altercation becomes a fight and both parties can be charged for the offence.
It’s obvious to me the Police are under orders from the Labour Government.
“Don’t rock the boat it’s election year.”
Thank you Martyn. I feel you have represented women’s concern here well.
Some of what you have mentioned is already happening in NZ ie biological men going into women’s spaces and competitions. SUFW is monitoring this. Unfortunately the Minister of Women isn’t. In 5 years time when the legislation is reviewed the Minister has to consult with the trans community about how it is going. There is no obligation to ask women. That is why it doesn’t bother me one dot if Seymour cancel the Ministry of women.
Btw Martyn. I disagree with you statement about both sides justifying violence. SUFW and the Let Women Speak people are/were peaceful. As is JK Rowling etc. I have never heard any gender critical feminist justifying violence. We condemn it.
But the Greens went off “to fight Nazis” and then failed to condemn the violence against the let women speak group
Posie Parker has asked for armed men to go into womens toilets…..and to be fair there were also significant number of Nazi type groups (UK force for good, ValidLs, National Housing Party) who prominently attended her Let Women Speak events in the Uk. Unless she comes out and disavows & keeps them from her events then she’ll be tainted by them. It is really important for the guys here that you also call out any that try to sneak in.
Very sad indeed when we care more about a visting women speaker from the UK than NZ women who are being threatened on twitter and other social media sites for speaking up/out, sounds like more hypocrisy in our country.
Good luck with civil dialogue with the Trans Cult. If we don’t fully accept them as woman then there is no negotiation to be had and them having a separate area or third option changing room is not accepting them fully a woman. This is a hard problem to sort out given how militant the Trans cult have become.
It’s not a simple ol case of “listen to women” because we’re not all thinking the same thing about transwomen. Most women I know either don’t know or are quite happy to have a different type of woman using our toilets & changing rooms or are not too sure about the sports thing but that’s it. A whole lot of us wouldn’t notice a trans woman anywayt- we just want to do our business & get out. BUT I also don’t want a load of Karens embolden to go around harassing our friends because they look a bit ‘man-y'(like is happening overseas). My (cis) female friends and relatives are however pretty pissed off by a small group of women telling us what we think tbh.
It is one of the sad things with any anti-trans backlash that some women may not “pass” as women, despite being born as female, because they don’t look feminine enough. Women come in all sizes & shape, and it is not for others to judge the validity of their femininity.
A trans woman with a penis may well leave a lasting impression.
That’s what everyone in Scotland thought until a male rapist was about to be sent to a women’s prison after miraculously deciding he was a women shortly before sentencing.
How surprising – but not really, when as SaveNZ put so well, rape is a power and control issue used by Men to dominate and re-victimise Women. Just like this piece of shit was going to do.
This resulted in a massive uproar and widespread anger when the general population realised what all this gender self ID bollocks really meant for vulnerable women – men re-victimising women. The same thing will happen here eventually.
Meanwhile we seem to have some of the loosest medical controls on transition drugs and surgery in the world, just as the rest of the world is waking up and realising what a fabricated shit show the trans movement has turned this in to:
https://plainsight.nz/young-new-zealanders-are-being-rushed-into-medical-gender-transition/
https://www.thefp.com/p/i-felt-bullied-mother-of-child-treated
https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids
– and for you men who think you are allies: I don’t know what happens in YOUR changing rooms and toilets BUT if I saw a penis in either of these places ( and it would only be the changing rooms) then I feel the same way as if I saw a pussy – * ugh, embarrassing* – and I’ll just pretend I hadn’t seen it. Because I don’t want to be seeing lady lumps either…
“Trans-rights” was never a problem in the last 100 years, until we (i.e. woke feminists) suddenly made it one using social media to make an issue 0.01% of people care about seem like at least 50%. Only women can take back their spaces, and if they refuse to do so…. well I hope they enjoy the new patriarchy.
I don’t believe that cutting and burning little bits off of yourself is a human right that grants more life.
Personally I would adopt a liberal approach towards this subject but also with a view to increasing security so that everyone feels safe. What about an increase in private cubicles and an increase in single jail cells. This isn’t any more of an issue than what any individual makes it.
I do feel that a biological make typically has more testosterone than a biological female. Therefore in terms of competition sports biological males and biological females should continue to be separated, generally speaking. I wouldn’t want men transitioning and then being able to win at Women’s volleyball, for example, but nor would I want women being able to transition and then win at Men’s netball.
Be sensible about it, folks, and don’t make it into a bigger issue than what it is.
Would you notice a trans women naked with their penis out in a change room? I would
You should have included this clip Martyn:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI6qvQtrTU8
” We all have to share this space respectfully with one another, that’s the point of living in a civilised society. ”
Bomber there is nothing ” civilised ” about this society when successive neo liberal unregulated capitalist governments continue to exploit so many and protect the top and their enablers as you keep pointing out.
Human lives are being destroyed by the this collective adherence to only governing for the wealthiest and property millionaires.
All of the injustices we should be out protesting against is being buried under a trans debate that quite frankly is just another corporate agenda to distract and disempower the many who are not a minority but a majority of our people.
I fully support our trans people and their right to self determination and being accepted members of our country and also for the future generations of trans human beings not yet conceived.
But the real enemy is the powerful with money and resources that seek to use one section of our community to be drawn in to their agenda.
Talk about a side show. Times are tough and yet endless space is wasted on this crap. Our unofficial rulers are chuckling up a storm.
Good to know that from June, Neve and Chippies daughter will be able to change in the public swimming pools with self ID woman with penises watching on.
It’s wonderful to be who you want to be, in NZ!
No need for doctor or judicial scrutiny on who will be in the public changing rooms with the kids!
Child sexual abuse is one in 5 in NZ. That is pretty high. In 2020 there were 1,488 cases of aggravated sexual assault on children under 15 years in NZ.
My point is not that transgender are child abusers, but that child abusers can use NZ’s very loose transgender laws to further abuse children in NZ. And there are a high amount of child abusers in NZ some of whom like Toko (Ashley) Shane Winter include the transgender community, convicted of a teenage murder./torture
When we look at violence against woman in NZ – again also extremely high. Making it easier for any man to take advantage of these loose transgender laws is completely irresponsible.
Non-partner sexual assault: 1 in 14 in NZ.
https://www.childmatters.org.nz/insights/nz-statistics/
We already know NZ welcomes child abusers into NZ! They have given up on people with good character being a requirement to live here.
Child abuser wins right to stay in New Zealand for humanitarian reasons
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/84891031/child-abuser-wins-right-to-stay-in-new-zealand-for-humanitarian-reasons
Child abuse dad avoids deportation on humanitarian grounds to stay with family
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/76059417/
New resident convicted of sex offending twice, won’t be deported
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11837608
Judge’s difficult sentencing of a former refugee who won’t stop offending
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/111480343/judges-difficult-sentencing-of-a-refugee-who-wont-stop-offending
Rapist wins case to be allowed to stay in NZ
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/327784/rapist-wins-case-to-be-allowed-to-stay-in-nz
We already have enough sexual predators in NZ, but cheap labour is worth turning a blind eye for!
Man accused of abduction and rape of school-age girl in Blenheim granted interim name suppression
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/man-accused-of-abduction-and-rape-of-school-age-girl-in-blenheim-granted-interim-name-suppression/6SVQFCH3LJFKDLVGHGK7YJST4U/
Seasonal workers jailed for lakeside abduction and sex attack
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/121597832/seasonal-workers-jailed-for-lakeside-abduction-and-sex-attack
Seasonal worker facing rape charge breaches bail
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122184984/seasonal-worker-facing-rape-charge-breaches-bail
So much of NZ’s laws seem to be enabling further violence towards woman and children. Not surprising considering young female lawyers are also fair game for senior lawyers who are above the law! https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/16/new-zealand-legal-profession-russell-mcveagh-sexual-harassment-scandal
Don’t forget the government has also have got rid of the children commission.
“Concern is growing about plans to disestablish the Children’s Commissioner role and other changes to the oversight of the state care system, with children’s charities saying the reforms are being rushed through without sufficient scrutiny.”
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/push-to-save-childrens-commissioner-from-govt-reforms
No surprises our government find Posy Parker vile and want to stop any pro woman’s voices coming to NZ!